The problem that every country is frustrated with. Immigration - General

[QUOTE=Lambeth;36897833]I don't think the BNP is a good source. [editline]23rd July 2012[/editline] Nobody is forcing race mixing what is wrong with you.[/QUOTE] I've posted two different sources for a reason.

Well it looks like the other guy's source is the sun, so ehhhh

[QUOTE=Lambeth;36898089]Well it looks like the other guy's source is the sun, so ehhhh[/QUOTE] Don't like the sources we provide? Shame.

[QUOTE=sonerin;36898433]Don't like the sources we provide? Shame.[/QUOTE] The Sun is a populistic immigrant-hating newspaper, what do you expect?

[QUOTE=Beafman;36898663]The Sun is a populistic immigrant-hating newspaper, what do you expect?[/QUOTE] It's not.

[QUOTE=sonerin;36898433]Don't like the sources we provide? Shame.[/QUOTE] Well no, more like they aren't valid sources.

racist as heck snip

[QUOTE=EA_GAM3R420;36901791]racist as heck snip[/QUOTE] If we just let everyone immigrate where they please, it will result in anarchy. Surely you must see this.

Is Sweden one of those countries that hates the fuck out of gypsies for no good reason or is that just like France and shit?

Gypsies aren't much of a problem here in Sweden because there's such a small number of them. Although I did do internship at a supermarket once and about half of the people on the wall with security pictures of shoplifters were gypsies. Which is a lot since they're such a minority The problem with a lot of immigrants is that they create their own subcultures instead of integrating with the current one. There are several neighborhoods here where the majority are middle eastern and muslim african immigrants and those areas are much more violent than the regular ones. The stores in these areas have guards in them because of all the shoplifters. The bad reputation that these people get affects the immigrants who don't do stuff like that and just integrate into the swedish society, which is a shame. [editline]23rd July 2012[/editline] Also, I'm mixed race (My dad is thai-american, moved to sweden after he met my mom) and I've always felt swedish. I've never felt like an immigrant even though I'm not white

[QUOTE=Eric95;36902485]Also, I'm mixed race (My dad is thai-american, moved to sweden after he met my mom) and I've always felt swedish. I've never felt like an immigrant even though I'm not white[/QUOTE] Well then, by Hellsten's logic you are not an ethnic Swede.

[QUOTE=Megafan;36902673]Well then, by Hellsten's logic you are not an ethnic Swede.[/QUOTE] He just said it himself that he is half Swedish.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36902876]He just said it himself that he is half Swedish.[/QUOTE] Wow you seriously might want to reconsider where your train of thought is going. [editline]23rd July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Eric95;36902485]The problem with a lot of immigrants is that they create their own subcultures instead of integrating with the current one. There are several neighborhoods here where the majority are middle eastern and muslim african immigrants and those areas are much more violent than the regular ones. The stores in these areas have guards in them because of all the shoplifters. The bad reputation that these people get affects the immigrants who don't do stuff like that and just integrate into the swedish society, which is a shame.[/QUOTE] So you're unwilling to give up your culture, but you expect everyone else to give up theirs? Why does your culture need to be the dominant one? [editline]23rd July 2012[/editline] Honestly this whole discussion reeks of people who just want a static world where they're always the privileged ones. You're fine with all the bullshit you did to get on top, but god be damned if you let anyone else climb their way up. Shit changes. Swedish ethnic culture is going to die out, same as every culture in the history of forever. Trying to preserve ethnic culture is cultural inbreeding. When some other culture becomes dominant, you might not want to have pissed them right the fuck off in the meantime.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36903010]Wow you seriously might want to reconsider where your train of thought is going.[/QUOTE] What? [QUOTE=Lankist;36903010]So you're unwilling to give up your culture, but you expect everyone else to give up theirs? Why does your culture need to be the dominant one?[/QUOTE] Because it is the domestic one. Same as the Islamic culture is by right to be the dominant one if a massive amount of swedes were to migrate to Iraq.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36903090]Because it is the domestic one. Same as the Islamic culture is by right to be the dominant one if a massive amount of swedes were to migrate to Iraq.[/QUOTE] It wasn't always the domestic one. Why was it cool for you to become the domestic culture through precisely the same means, but the moment somebody else comes along they're scumfuck immigrants and they're a huge problem. Let's say the muslims take over or w/e. In three hundred years' time, when the ethnic swedes are like "yo, we wanna come back," would you be against it given muslim culture is now the domestic culture and had been for centuries? Buddy, the world is not static. Shit is going to change. Trying to [I]stop[/I] it from changing is only going to hurt people. You can try to help it change for the better, or you can start a struggle for ethnic continuity which will see its end with ethnic swedes fucking their siblings in some vain and narcissistic attempt to keep the race going. The sooner you get used to the fact that the world is a fluid, dynamic place, the sooner you can help improve it. Trying to make the world stay the same isn't going to end well for you.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36903010]So you're unwilling to give up your culture, but you expect everyone else to give up theirs? Why does your culture need to be the dominant one?[/QUOTE] Using the word "culture" was wrong, sorry. I meant to say "society". Instead of integrating with our society they often create their own type of society in those neigbourhoods. As I've said before those neighbourhoods are really violent and have a lot of crime going on. Culture-wise, I'm not saying they can't bring the culture of their country with them. That's not what I meant. What they do is create a new type of culture which is just a general "immigrant-culture". There's a specific type of swedish that these people use called "immigrant-swedish" which is pretty much a strong accent, a lot of slang and a lot of adapted words. Of course not all immigrants speak "immigrant-swedish", but it's something that's really common in the communities that they've created in their neigbourhoods. A lot of the young people in these communities hate "swedes" too for some reason. There are big fights in these neigbourhoods and people get stabbed. Of course people don't have to give up on their cultures. That shouldn't mean they can't coexist. Doing stupid stuff like not letting people sing the national anthem when school ends is something that shouldn't have to happen. I don't have anything against other cultures. I'm just against the violent and intrusive "immigrant-culture" that has grown through this. The people who practice their religion and culture peacefully should obviously be able to keep doing what they do.

[QUOTE=DanRatherman;36847218]Economic arguments against immigration are just lazy attempts to cover up for ethnic bigotry. You don't fix economic problems by reducing the number of people in a country and more than you fix healthcare by exiling the sick.[/QUOTE] The only argument against immigration is that the native population of the country are too lazy/bad/dumb/fat to work and don't like the immigrants "stealing" "their" jobs [editline]23rd July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lankist;36903153]It wasn't always the domestic one. Why was it cool for you to become the domestic culture through precisely the same means, but the moment somebody else comes along they're scumfuck immigrants and they're a huge problem. Let's say the muslims take over or w/e. In three hundred years' time, when the ethnic swedes are like "yo, we wanna come back," would you be against it given muslim culture is now the domestic culture and had been for centuries? Buddy, the world is not static. Shit is going to change. Trying to [I]stop[/I] it from changing is only going to hurt people. You can try to help it change for the better, or you can start a struggle for ethnic continuity which will see its end with ethnic swedes fucking their siblings in some vain and narcissistic attempt to keep the race going. The sooner you get used to the fact that the world is a fluid, dynamic place, the sooner you can help improve it. Trying to make the world stay the same isn't going to end well for you.[/QUOTE] Because the islamic "invaders" will not like the native swedes, and so the native swedes think that the large immigration will change their quality of life for worse, and they want to it to stay how it is right now i.e. better than what they think it will become

[QUOTE=Lankist;36903153]It wasn't always the domestic one.[/QUOTE] The cultures of Scandinavia today are branches of the prehistoric ones that had a span reaching from Germania up to southern Scandinavia. A dreadfully massive migration overwriting/merging an already existing population never occurred. Not in Scandinavia at least. Later however, people moved out of southern Scandinavia west and south and moving further into southern Germany (and pushed the Celts to the west) and halted at the Roman province. [QUOTE=Lankist;36903153]Buddy, the world is not static. Shit is going to change. Trying to [I]stop[/I] it from changing is only going to hurt people. You can try to help it change for the better, or you can start a struggle for ethnic continuity which will see its end with ethnic swedes fucking their siblings in some vain and narcissistic attempt to keep the race going.[/QUOTE] I never advocated a 100% racial purity. I never advocated a complete halt in immigration either, merely a limitation. [QUOTE=Lankist;36903153]Trying to make the world stay the same isn't going to end well for you.[/QUOTE] We can evolve just fine (both cultural and as a nation) while preserving our nationality. Just look at Swedens history through the past 2000 years, it has been more or less evolving independently without the need of any mass-immigration.

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36904191]The cultures of Scandinavia today are branches of the prehistoric ones that had a span reaching from Germania up to southern Scandinavia.[/QUOTE] so you're telling me no one in your entire family has ever originated from anywhere but Scandinavia? That's sort of a problem. [editline]23rd July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Eltro102;36903951]Because the islamic "invaders" will not like the native swedes[/QUOTE] I'd say the reason they won't like them is because the Swedish nationalists are being muy racisto.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36904628]so you're telling me no one in your entire family has ever originated from anywhere but Scandinavia?[/QUOTE] Nope, I have a family tree branch in Germany way back. Other than that, as much as I know about my family history it is completely Swedish. We keep a book :) It's actually a very interesting read! Still, I don't see how what you are saying would be a problem. [QUOTE=Lankist;36904628]I'd say the reason they won't like them is because the Swedish nationalists are being muy racisto.[/QUOTE] Do you still not understand that the idea behind nationalism is love to your own people and nationality (and actually the continued existence of other nationalities cultures in the world - (also the reason why national parties across the globe like each other) ), and not because of hate towards another race? [editline]24th July 2012[/editline] I know there are some who actually think there are lesser ethnicities (which is very wrong in my eyes) but I can assure you I am not one of those people. If I was I wouldn't be advocating national distinctiveness across the world, I would proclaim the Swedes as master race, lol. :)

[QUOTE=Hellsten;36904854]Do you still not understand that the idea behind nationalism is love to your own people and nationality (and actually the continued existence of other nationalities cultures in the world - (also the reason why national parties across the globe like each other) ), and not because of hate towards another race?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Hellsten;36902876]He just said it himself that he is half Swedish.[/QUOTE] Implying that if he weren't half Swedish, he wouldn't be welcome. Stop masquerading hatred as love. Your masturbatory sense of self-love does not disguise a disdain for all those whom are not [I]you.[/I]

And what's wrong with that? That being, fearing change which you might think will lead for the worse for you, and even expecting it to lead for the worse will mean that you will think it has lead for the worse, and be angry about it

[QUOTE=Eltro102;36905520]And what's wrong with that?[/QUOTE] [img]http://msdrapersy9dclassroom.wikispaces.com/file/view/nazis.jpg/33596117/nazis.jpg[/img] [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CqrTbZtwklA/T76zQDYOvrI/AAAAAAAAB54/UGLTPX6AqyE/s1600/goldendawn.jpeg[/img] That's what's wrong with nationalism. Need I remind you all that anti-immigration fears in Greece have led to the election of a fucking [I]fascist[/I] party? Greece for Greeks, Germany for Germans, Sweden for Swedes, there's no difference. Masturbatory self-absorption ultimately ends in hatred, both historically and right now this very day.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36903153]The sooner you get used to the fact that the world is a fluid, dynamic place, the sooner you can help improve it. Trying to make the world stay the same isn't going to end well for you.[/QUOTE] Lankist hit it on the head. Where will the Swedes be in a hundred years, one thousand, ten thousand? What will happen with the Americans, or the Japanese? They're not gonna be that way forever, people and ways of life change. You can't stop the future.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36905600][img]http://msdrapersy9dclassroom.wikispaces.com/file/view/nazis.jpg/33596117/nazis.jpg[/img] That's what's wrong with nationalism.[/QUOTE] An example of nationalism taken to an extreme. You can point all you want to all the times nationalism has gone bad in the past but people do not take kindly to large change like this especially if they do not like the immigrants. My point is, people will not change their views on immigration until they are forced to, either by [quote=me]The only argument against immigration is that the native population of the country are too lazy/bad/dumb/fat to work and don't like the immigrants "stealing" "their" jobs[/quote] or by direct threat to life, both of which will lead to them viewing immigration as negative. There is no point in deriding nationalism, especially since it is becoming increasing irrelevant for better or worse with the rise of the internet, atleast for now.

[QUOTE=Eltro102;36905666]An example of nationalism taken to an extreme. You can point all you want to all the times nationalism has gone bad in the past but people do not take kindly to large change like this especially if they do not like the immigrants.[/QUOTE] Golden Dawn. Greece for Greeks. Dragging immigrants into the streets and brutalizing them, then getting elected to public office. You need to stop with this notion that immigrants want to kill you. They want to be your fucking neighbors. That's why they're immigrating.

[QUOTE=Levithan;36905624]Lankist hit it on the head. Where will the Swedes be in a hundred years, one thousand, ten thousand? What will happen with the Americans, or the Japanese? They're not gonna be that way forever, people and ways of life change. You can't stop the future.[/QUOTE] YEs, but the people there do not [I]want[/I] to change and forcing them to will lead to [URL="http://msdrapersy9dclassroom.wikispaces.com/file/view/nazis.jpg/33596117/nazis.jpg"]n[/URL]

[QUOTE=Eltro102;36905686]YEs, but the people there do not [I]want[/I] to change and forcing them to will lead to [URL="http://msdrapersy9dclassroom.wikispaces.com/file/view/nazis.jpg/33596117/nazis.jpg"]n[/URL][/QUOTE] Nobody has to force change, it happens no matter what. As has been asked twice: Where will Sweden be in a few hundred years? Who will be the domestic majority? Probably not ethnic Swedes. So would you feel the same way if you were on the opposite end of this discussion? Let's say them muslims take over and hold the majority in Sweden for three centuries. Would you hate the ethnic Swedes who want to move back in?

[QUOTE=Lankist;36905680]Golden Dawn. Greece for Greeks. Dragging immigrants into the streets and brutalizing them, then getting elected to public office.[/QUOTE] The Greek majority want this and so they will get what they want. Not getting what they want will lead to worse. [editline]24th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lankist;36905697]Nobody has to force change, it happens no matter what.[/QUOTE] Change happens no matter what, but it will only lead to good if it happens at a pace imperceptible to everyone, which seems like is what you are not arguing for.

[QUOTE=Eltro102;36905703]The Greek majority want this and so they will get what they want. Not getting what they want will lead to worse.[/QUOTE] You're just rationalizing. Also, free societies don't govern themselves by majority rule. If majority rule could solve civil issues, there would [I]be[/I] no civil issues.