Lolicon, should it be legal or illegal. - General

[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32841371]Newsflash: Most pedos who are attracted to real kids don't even find lolicon hot at all.[/QUOTE] Got any evidence to back that up?

[QUOTE=a-k-t-w;32841406]Got any evidence to back that up?[/QUOTE] Scientific? No not really. But why would they? There's a huge difference between a real human and a hentai human. Same there's a difference between a real child and a loli one. What kinda needs to be specified here, are we talking about japanese drawn lolicon or are we talking about drawn children? Because there's a difference between a realistic drawing an an anime style drawing. Most people who fap to real porn would not be able to replace it with hentai because it's just so different.

[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32841371]Newsflash: Most pedos who are attracted to real kids don't even find lolicon hot at all.[/QUOTE] Er, I think it's the other way around. Most pedo's will probably find lolicon hot, but there is also a large amount of people who like lolicon, but [I]not[/I] real children. I don't know how exactly that works, but I've seen people claiming that a lot. Of course there's no evidence for that, the most I could do would be to dig up some pictures on gelbooru and quote the comments :v:

[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;32841434]Er, I think it's the other way around. Most pedo's will probably find lolicon hot, but there is also a large amount of people who like lolicon, but [I]not[/I] real children. I don't know how exactly that works, but I've seen people claiming that a lot. Of course there's no evidence for that, the most I could do would be to dig up some pictures on gelbooru and quote the comments :v:[/QUOTE] I find real women hot, I find hentai gross.

[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32841446]I find real women hot, I find hentai gross.[/QUOTE] opinions. obviously some pedos do find it attrative, otherwise why would it exist?

[QUOTE=a-k-t-w;32841598]opinions. obviously some pedos do find it attrative, otherwise why would it exist?[/QUOTE]Because you don't need to be a pedo to like lolicon. It's like saying rapists enjoy rape porn. They are not the only ones.

I like Lolicon, but I have moral issues with it. While they are just drawings and don't seem entirely illegal, I still feel like it's some sort of "gateway" problem (like people who think Marijuana is a gateway drug, even though that is clearly bullshit beyond measure). Though it's likely that my paranoia is making me feel this way. I have some incredible issues with even the most simplest things and constantly worry about my state of my mind and it's future. People should be able to draw whatever. If they want to draw lolicon, whether it's sexual and not, it's their choice. For me, this is a hard topic to voice on. I feel like my post didn't make sense at all.

[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;32841092]Uhh, what? There's imagination? Are you implying that someone who specifically likes lolicon can just go look at something else that you find less morally wrong?[/quote] Generally speaking, yeah. It's not just me either. Go up to someone in real life and ask and they'll probably look at you like you're crazy or say something along the lines of, "what the fuck." Go up to somebody in real life and say you enjoy drawn guys doing little kids and record your results. Is there an outlet? Yeah, it's called getting help. [quote]If someone is an exclusive pedophile, they won't be able to use normal hentai / normal porn as an outlet. Just like a heterosexual can't use gay porn as an outlet or the other way around. [I](not that they would ever have to)[/I][/quote] So, you're saying that a pedophile should be allowed to indulge himself in lolicon instead trying to lure him back? You know, it's more then just fapping. I highly doubt that someone who's thinking of doing it with little kids and outlets it into the drawn version has all of his marbles. You guys are trying to have it be like, "Well, if I'm allowed to do x then I should be able to do y." Tell me why you're able to see violent video games everywhere (in real life) and not lolicon. There's a reason for that, and that's because lolicon is a whole new level that I'm pretty sure many people wouldn't tolerate. Honestly, if all you guys are saying is it's an outlet for a problem that doesn't hurt anyone I'll point you into a direction which points to addressing the problem while not hurting anyone - help. And don't deny it, lolicon is a problem. Anyone who says a fetish for wanting to see kids and adults do each other isn't a problem needs to go outside and start interacting with people. How about what happens if he's stuck in a room with some kids? I'm not saying, "hes guna rap dem1!1o" but if all of last night he had fantasies about kids their age then what's he supposed to feel? What would you as a parent feel if you found he had these fantasies and he was their with your daughter and son? I'm sure as fuck that parent would not be happy regardless of his intentions. [quote]Things don't need a purpose to be allowed if they aren't harming anyone. Let alone a "unique moral purpose". And again, it [I]can't[/I] be achieved through other means, [I](well, real child porn and child molestation can but... yeah.)[/I] not if the person is specifically attracted to kids.[/quote] The guy is harming himself. Letting yourself enjoy a high attraction to kids is wrong. If the person is attracted to kids he should get help, not try to vent it through lolicon. Quit cheering for fueling the fire. Keeping social acceptance to an extent is acceptable in my eyes.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;32842072] The guy is harming himself. Letting yourself enjoy a high attraction to kids is wrong. If the person is attracted to kids he should get help, not try to vent it through lolicon. Quit cheering for fueling the fire. [/QUOTE]If self harm is not allowed, neither should be alcohol or tv or anything. It all harms ourselves. I am the king of my body and mind, why am I not allowed to do anything I want to myself? You can't or atleast you shouldn't try to cure fetishes because they might be immoral. Laws should never be based on morality alone. If someone has foot fetish, do you think they can get help to get rid of it? No not really. You can't just force yourself to stop liking what you like. As long as no one is hurt, what is wrong with fantasizing about it? I fantasize about murdering people I don't like, it's not like I would ever do that in real life.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;32842072]Generally speaking, yeah. It's not just me either. Go up to someone in real life and ask and they'll probably look at you like you're crazy or say something along the lines of, "what the fuck." Go up to somebody in real life and say you enjoy drawn guys doing little kids and record your results. Is there an outlet? Yeah, it's called getting help.[/QUOTE] You can't "cure" pedophilia. Just like you can't "cure" heterosexuality or homosexuality. You have the sexual orientation that you have, and it is incredibly hard to change at best, impossible at worst. It's like trying to change what kind of food you like. Even if you had a real good reason to, you can't just change it. Or "get help". And I do realize that it isn't just you. But that doesn't mean it is right. Thing is, people who are pedophiles are going to be pedophiles, it isn't going to change. As it has been shown earlier, rape goes down when porn is legal. That suggests that if you try to suppress the feelings, they only get stronger. So therefore, lolicon is simply the best way. [QUOTE]So, you're saying that a pedophile should be allowed to indulge himself in lolicon instead trying to lure him back? You know, it's more then just fapping. I highly doubt that someone who's thinking of doing it with little kids and outlets it into the drawn version has all of his marbles.[/QUOTE] Yes. I say you [I]can't[/I] "lure him back". It's just the way his sexuality is wired. It is an inconvenient sexuality to have, but it is just as hard to change as heterosexuality and homosexuality. And you're suggesting that pedophiles are insane. Well, if you consider pedophilia itself insanity then yes. But I don't see why pedophilia would automatically make them any more insane beyond that? [QUOTE]You guys are trying to have it be like, "Well, if I'm allowed to do x then I should be able to do y." Tell me why you're able to see violent video games everywhere (in real life) and not lolicon. There's a reason for that, and that's because lolicon is a whole new level that I'm pretty sure many people wouldn't tolerate.[/QUOTE] That's the thing we're discussing. What you are pointing out is a jarring double standard present throughout the world. It isn't a "whole new level", the only reason why you would see it as such is because you find it disgusting. They are both fictive and cause no harm to anybody. Therefore they should both be allowed. You're right. Many people don't tolerate lolicon. Back in the day, people didn't tolerate witches. At one time, people didn't tolerate black people. At another time, we didn't tolerate gay people. As long as people don't harm anybody, there is absolutely no reason to not tolerate those people. Also, just because it is the general opinion, does not make it true. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum[/url] [QUOTE]Honestly, if all you guys are saying is it's an outlet for a problem that doesn't hurt anyone I'll point you into a direction which points to addressing the problem while not hurting anyone - help. And don't deny it, lolicon is a problem. Anyone who says a fetish for wanting to see kids and adults do each other isn't a problem needs to go outside and start interacting with people.[/QUOTE] Therapy can't change a person's sexuality, no matter how deviant or immoral you think it is. And I beg to differ. Lolicon is not a problem. It becomes a problem when the individual starts to actually act on it. Before that, it is merely a fantasy. At this point you aren't providing any reasons, just "lolicon is a problem!", "it is wrong!". We've already gone through why it isn't wrong and why it isn't a problem: [I]It is fictive and harms nobody.[/I] Plus, there is no evidence that suggests that it would make pedophiles want more. In fact, it seems that it serves as an outlet that makes them less likely to do something worse. [QUOTE]How about what happens if he's stuck in a room with some kids? I'm not saying, "hes guna rap dem1!1o" but if all of last night he had fantasies about kids their age then what's he supposed to feel? What would you as a parent feel if you found he had these fantasies and he was their with your daughter and son? I'm sure as fuck that parent would not be happy regardless of his intentions.[/QUOTE] If this person would rape the kids, then he is a criminal. Whether he watched lolicon the day before has nothing to do with it. True, the parents probably wouldn't feel good about letting that person be stuck in a room with their kids. Why the fuck would they let him get into that situation? Anyways... "what's he supposed to feel?" there's nothing he is supposed to feel; as long as he can keep himself from harming those kids, there is no problem. [QUOTE]The guy is harming himself.[/QUOTE] True, pedophilia is kind of harmful to the person who has it, because they have to live with the hate and they have to keep a strong grip on themselves. [QUOTE]Letting yourself enjoy a high attraction to kids is wrong.[/QUOTE] Nope. [QUOTE]If the person is attracted to kids he should get help, not try to vent it through lolicon. Quit cheering for fueling the fire.[/QUOTE] There is no fueling the fire. Without a way to vent the feelings, it just gets pent up and then he'll become more and more desperate which could potentially make the person unstable. [I](Aka a person more likely to commit crimes and do things without thinking it through)[/I]. Getting help is good for a person who has problems. If the person is in distress because of his pedophillic fantasies, then therapy is probably a good option. But even then, there is no way to "cure" pedophilia. You act as though "help" is just a quick-fix that can make a pedophile turn straight. You can't do that, and secondly, why would you if the person isn't harming anybody? [editline]18th October 2011[/editline] Addendum: [QUOTE]You guys are trying to have it be like, "Well, if I'm allowed to do x then I should be able to do y."[/QUOTE] I'm allowed to do action x because of reason a. Reason a is applicable to action y. x and y should both be allowed. Violent video games (x) are allowed to depict violent acts because it is fictive and therefore doesn't hurt anybody. (a) Lolicon (y) is also fictive and therefore doesn't hurt anybody. (a) Violent video games (x) and lolicon (y) should both be allowed. Your only argument against this is that lolicon is a "whole new level" and that many people won't tolerate it. That's not good enough. [editline]18th October 2011[/editline] All that said, I do think most pedophiles can probably benefit from therapy. There is bound to be a lot of conflicts in a person with pedophilia, especially because of the current hysteria going on in the world. A pedophile's best bet would probably be to use lolicon as an outlet and therapy as a means to learn how to handle his feelings and such. But [B]not[/B] to try and change his sexuality. That just won't work.

Real people aren't being harmed, and if lolicon is an outlet for pedophilia that redirects attention from actual children, then whatever. Pedophilia only becomes a problem with a pedo acts on his urges, not because they exhibit the mental disorder. It's like outlawing slasher movies because sociopaths get off on it, or outlawing pictures of the dead because of necrophilia, or rape porn. Yeah it's fucked up, but if they're not actually hurting anyone then who are we to tell someone what they're allowed to enjoy, no matter how ridiculous. If some creepy guy wants to jerk off to prepubescent anime in the comfort of his own home, that's fine by me, I suppose. However I'm not that strongly opinionated on the subject, I couldn't really care either way. I just hate to see people persecuted for something that is out of their control. Pedophiles should always get help if they think they might do something extreme, same goes for anything.

I have nothing against pedophilia as long as no-one is harmed, mentally nor physically. Lolicon doesn't hurt anyone, so it should be legal.

Fapping to a specific porn =/= you will go out and realize your fetishes. When will people learn this. Playing games does not mean you will run outside and slash people with your katana you bought from ebay.

[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32842663]Fapping to a specific porn =/= you will go out and realize your fetishes. When will people learn this. Playing games does not mean you will run outside and slash people with your katana you bought from ebay.[/QUOTE] Holy shit, first time I've seen anyone but me say that in either of the threads, congratulations, you're not a soccer mom.

[QUOTE=Crimor;32843632]Holy shit, first time I've seen anyone but me say that in either of the threads, congratulations, you're not a soccer mom.[/QUOTE] Because stupid people think that if you have fantasies you will go out and actually realize them. He's enjoying porn and videogames? He will go out and rape someone and then murder the victim. I still can't understand how people think lolicon could be a gateway drug while videogames or violent movies can not. Hell quite a lot of today's music is damn graphic. It's all a fantasy, a style, a fetish. A sane human being will not act upon them if it harms others. If these gateway drugs actually worked, we'd be living in chaos where everyone would murder and rape.

[QUOTE=Haruko;32837638] (I have like 60 GB of loli porn anyways)[/QUOTE] Fuck the what? :v:

[QUOTE=Madman_Andre;32846639]Fuck the what? :v:[/QUOTE] I'm not going to rape little girls any time soon. So. yeah

[QUOTE=Haruko;32848310]I'm not going to rape little girls any time soon. So. yeah[/QUOTE] Since most child molesters are 40-50 and you're probably 20 at most, yeah not soon. You still got some time.

[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32848525]Since most child molesters are 40-50 and you're probably 20 at most, yeah not soon. You still got some time.[/QUOTE]Is it weird that I got interested in lolicon when I was like 14 years old?

[QUOTE=Daniellynet;32851446]Is it weird that I got interested in lolicon when I was like 14 years old?[/QUOTE] It seems that guys tends to develop pedophilic interests of various degrees (in our cases here, lolicon) at early stages as a teenager. Most will lose interests as years passes by. [editline]18th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Plattack;32834245]I believe that's lolita, not lolicon, one of my friends wears it.[/QUOTE] What kind of friends do you have?

[QUOTE=Daniellynet;32851446]Is it weird that I got interested in lolicon when I was like 14 years old?[/QUOTE]Not really seeing as at 14 it's natural to find same age people attractive. [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=B!N4RY;32855520] What kind of friends do you have?[/QUOTE] Who cares? Lolita is not related to lolicon at all.

Should be legal. It's art and everyone is free to express themselves artistically. It may help with lowering child rape rates.

Legal because illustrations do not have an age and there is no victim here.