Creative Work That Doesn't Deserve A Thread - Detlef's Detlef edition - General

It's the pose, not the armor.

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;29638038]dont put the emoticon like you don't think it's 100% true [editline]5th May 2011[/editline] okay 50% true. i blame rusty >:([/QUOTE] Can't you two see your love is tearing this thread apart?!

[QUOTE=Heroms;29641442]It's the pose, not the armor.[/QUOTE] Well... If they didn't have the same pose you wouldn't really be able to compare them now would you? When we say things look different we usually set them next to each other in the most identical pose we can manage to see the difference. If it isn't different when in the same pose then it's only the pose itself that makes it different, not the design. The thing is as I said, that what makes the silhouette is the person, which will make them very similar even though the armors are very different. This is because armor needs to be practical and should really stick out from the body as little as possible unless it's some crazy fantasy or stone-age creation, or crazy people making it. Thus it's the character that forms 80% of the silhouette, and then those 20% difference the suit creates doesn't really create the big difference.

First off, thank you to anyone who "defended" me. With that said, please stop doing it. I can handle myself, and there is a reason I did not reply, it is not worth it to argue over a half finished sketch. I literally just read 3 pages of arguments that should have ended when I said "I am going to revise it". Now then, while rusty and detlef may not of had the best intentions with their crit, they were to some degree right. It was too close to the nanosuit for comfort. On the subject of the silhouette, the man specifically asked for a jack of all spades soldier, so I could not really make his stock suit too unique. Now there will be add on attachments with different functions that WILL change the silhouette. Anyways enough talk, here is another possible design. The older design has not been trashed, but because of the mixed reaction it received, it will not be focused on as of now. All in all it comes to the decision of the guy calling the shots for this. Also I do not like this green, I am experimenting with other color pallets, this one comes off to alienish in color. [IMG]http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/1chains1/armor-2-1.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=1chains1;29641595]With that said, please stop doing it. I can handle myself, and there is a reason I did not reply, it is not worth it to argue over a half finished sketch. I literally just read 3 pages of arguments that should have ended when I said "I am going to revise it". [/QUOTE] I'm not defending you if you are implying that. I'm arguing with those people and their comments. It ends up being to your defense. But in this case it can really only be either defense or attack when arguing about the topic. Can't say your current armor makes much sense in terms of flexibility. Unless all of those details are highly bendable. Looks pretty boring as well just being three lines all in all. Your previous armor was more dynamic and followed the flow of the body much better.

[QUOTE=dgg;29641642]I'm not defending you if you are implying that. I'm arguing with those people and their comments. It ends up being to your defense. But in this case it can really only be either defense or attack when arguing about the topic. Can't say your current armor makes much sense in terms of flexibility. Unless all of those details are highly bendable. Looks pretty boring as well just being three lines all in all. Your previous armor was more dynamic and followed the flow of the body much better.[/QUOTE] I think it is because the number of "spinal bones" I put on the two spines. I am going to cut down on them as they distract too much. Also the lines kind of conflict with the flow I was going for, theyre bending downwards when they need to be going up more.

I was also about to say the over-detailed bits detract from the design

[QUOTE=1chains1;29641780]I think it is because the number of "spinal bones" I put on the two spines. I am going to cut down on them as they distract too much. Also the lines kind of conflict with the flow I was going for, theyre bending downwards when they need to be going up more.[/QUOTE] Exactly my thoughts. Bigger chunks = more aesthetically pleasing, and makes more sense.

[QUOTE=dgg;29641589]Well... If they didn't have the same pose you wouldn't really be able to compare them now would you? When we say things look different we usually set them next to each other in the most identical pose we can manage to see the difference. [/QUOTE] No It's the pose that makes you think there is any similarity. If I posed a soldier in the same pose as the Battlefield Bad Company 2 cover, you would think they look the same.

I browse this section, and I have a lot of drawings in this sketchbook that I'd love to post but my fucking camera got stolen awhile ago... Anyway, I came here to post this picture as a request for someone to pencil sketch it. I fucking LOVE black and white pictures with harsh light and think this would look amazing on paper, with the skin texture, the wrinkles, the huge contrast between dark and light [media]http://myephemerality.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/20100221-DSC1049_Ruben.jpg[/media]

[QUOTE=Heroms;29643002]No It's the pose that makes you think there is any similarity. If I posed a soldier in the same pose as the Battlefield Bad Company 2 cover, you would think they look the same.[/QUOTE] I don't think they look similar. Well given that the BC 2 guys wear real fucking armor and no sci-fi, then no shit. They would have failed otherwise.

MTVs and interceptors for the win guys.

i for one accept chains' design.

[QUOTE=dgg;29643081]I don't think they look similar. [/QUOTE] Yes, I know, that was directed to the people who thought it does. [QUOTE=dgg;29643081]Well given that the BC 2 guys wear real fucking armor and no sci-fi, then no shit. They would have failed otherwise.[/QUOTE] If I placed these two men [url]http://www.ecomodelismo.com/ECO_imgArt/TANK/TANK-35068.jpg[/url] [url]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3575/3574887273_4c461d29d9.jpg[/url] In the same pose as the BC2 cover, and presented one before the other, you would think I copied off the first one, due to the pose. In the same way, when chains posted his armor, the pose was pretty much an exact copy of the crytek pose that we all saw hundreds of times, which makes them look similar all of a sudden, especially since both are futuristic armors.

[QUOTE=Heroms;29644206]Yes, I know, that was directed to the people who thought it does. If I placed these two men [url]http://www.ecomodelismo.com/ECO_imgArt/TANK/TANK-35068.jpg[/url] [url]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3575/3574887273_4c461d29d9.jpg[/url] In the same pose as the BC2 cover, and presented one before the other, you would think I copied off the first one, due to the pose. In the same way, when chains posted his armor, the pose was pretty much an exact copy of the crytek pose that we all saw hundreds of times, which makes them look similar all of a sudden, especially since both are futuristic armors.[/QUOTE] Way to go you just posted load outs from 20 years apart.

[QUOTE=1chains1;29641595]Anyways enough talk, here is another possible design. The older design has not been trashed, but because of the mixed reaction it received, it will not be focused on as of now. All in all it comes to the decision of the guy calling the shots for this. Also I do not like this green, I am experimenting with other color pallets, this one comes off to alienish in color. [img_thumb]http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/1chains1/armor-2-1.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] I didn't even read half of the posts in that argument. Yeah it looks like the crysis nanosuit a little bit. But guess what? It's so much fucking cooler. I'm not really a fan of that weird frigging muscle crap that they designed into it, I think it looks kind of dumb. On the other hand this shit right here is amazing. You're an inspiration whether or not everything thinks it's original or not. At least to me. I seriously think that is just the most awesome thing I've seen in weeks if not months. Anyways all being a suckup aside, I think maybe if you went for a dirty white that would be a good look, and then some nice shades of gray for recesses with more detail like the back. Personally I don't think it looks alien at all, although it's a little complex for my taste. I hope you keep the shape of the shoulder you had before because I really liked that part of it. EDIT: Oh yeah, that's actually an entirely different piece. Don't I feel stupid. Anyways I still love it, just personally I'm a fan of more simple shapes instead of all that crazy-complicated stuff, but it's still awesome honest honest honest.

[QUOTE=Back_Slash;29644658]Way to go you just posted load outs from 20 years apart.[/QUOTE] ... that was the point the soldiers do not look similar at all but if placed in the same position you guys would state they are

it's not okay to compare things when armor technology wasn't there hell that russian isn't even wearing armor only a vest with sheets of metal and a chest harness. as the US soldier is wearing fully customizable gear which can change and the silhouette can look alike

[QUOTE=Back_Slash;29645057]it's not okay to compare things when armor technology wasn't there hell that russian isn't even wearing armor only a vest with sheets of metal and a chest harness. as the US soldier is wearing fully customizable gear which can change and the silhouette can look alike[/QUOTE] How about just stop arguing please? EDIT: Pretty please?

To Detlef and others who says that "concept art isn't art, it's design." Well then why is it called concept art and not concept design, the two are actually seperate, when speaking of design your'e trying to do something that would actually have functionality and work, like designing a car, knowing how aerodynamic the hood should be to gain maximum airflow etc.. When creating concept art, your goal is just as any other artist's. To create something visually appealing to an intended audience, an idea that just looks nice to people, sets a certain mood, gives a particular idea, or something that can manipulate people. As in scare them, or get them to feel compassionate for something, etc... Creating something that sure could look unique, but most importantly has to look nice and give about the general idea as to what you're trying to convey or asked to convey.. And if you're really familiar with how concept art is created, do you really think concept artists in game/film studios just create the most unique piece off the first bat? No. Think of it like this, if you were told to create a concept for some native american lady, but from a tribe no one's heard of or seen, would you just create a woman with 3 tits, a lime green bonnet and a purple dress for the sake of being unique? Or would you look up other native american figures as references, and give alternates to them? Same goes for the cybernetic suit thing, There's going to be a need for certain things like a base to tap into the spinal column and shoulder pads/plates etc.. that would have to be based off a generic cyber suit model and then given some alternate features after the first, second, third, and even 30th rough concept. Considering that was Chain's first rough, you'd have to say it's decently different enough from the originally inspired suit. And silhouettes aren't made to be the most unique part of a design, they're used because of the lack of detail, so you're mind fills it in with detail automatically, and makes it easier to create something from scratch. You're not going to have a silhouette of a dude in the military wearing a cybernetic suit be much different from another cybernetic suit no matter how different the costume design overall is. Take a look at Iron man, does he really resemble that much to the suits from the GI Joe movie? But then silhouette them from the same angle, how about now? Anyways, personally I feel that the CC has been on a steady decline ever since this thread was created. The way critique is given by the majority of you, it's being thrown around like raw meat to a savage hungry dog. No real care or thought put into it to help the person being critiqued. A lot of what you guys call "critique" isn't really. It's just nitpicking at things that don't really matter for the sake of nitpicking to show off you're supposed artistic knowledge. And even when something is mentioned that is correct, no real reason is given as to why. Back before this thread, when people actually made threads of their work rather than just posting in here, we were less of a closer community, and for some reason I feel as though for FP that was a good thing. Because of this thread, people feel the need to post faster about something rather than take their time because it's not really permanent or their "critique" might fall behind a few pages and it wont matter anymore. Basically when someone created their own thread, everything worked so much better, granted there was room for crap drawing threads, however those would just die out eventually. While the better ones could go on either receiving critique or just praise. And back then because of this, people would end up posting well thought out and planned critiques designed to help the artist, rather than try to be funny or witty, or just generally wave your edick around saying I have more artistic knowledge than you. With stuff like Detlef posts, it's stuff like "Stop using opacity brushes.", when asked why, and respond with "Just stop it, it looks horrible." Now these aren't exact quotes, but they're pretty much the idea of what critique is considered to you guys nowadays.. This is no way constructive critique. If you really want the artist to improve, you'll explain why, what happens when you do and when you don't. And now pretty much the whole community is locked into this idea where it's this kind of "tough love critique" or nothing. I've only noticed a few people that still give understanding and actual helpful critique, or at least attempt to do so, and I praise you all for that. [QUOTE=k00lwhip;29644132] Speech worthy of applaud.[/QUOTE] I have to say man, you pulled a lot of stuff out of my mind when you said all this.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;29630308]it's not exactly, but it's definitely either heavily inspired by it or a rip off of it[/QUOTE] [b]" It looks like it therefore it is it " [/b] [QUOTE=Rusty100;29630461]excuses about the fictional suits materials it still looks incredibly similar so much so most people would mistake it for the same thing unless they had side by side images to really closely compare - even then[/QUOTE] [b] "you're giving me excuses because you won't accept that i'm right" [/b] [QUOTE=Detlef;29630470]blatant ripoff[/QUOTE] [b] "It looks like it, therefore it is a blatant rip off of it. [/b] [QUOTE=Rusty100;29630480]even the colours are the same [editline]5th May 2011[/editline] seriously chains, it is a blatant ripoff even if u didnt meant for it to be[/QUOTE] [b] "chains stop making excuses and just accept that i'm right " [/b] [QUOTE=Detlef;29630639]one important thing in concept art is the siluettes. right now theyre exacly the same. You are supposed to be able to tell designs apart just by siluettes or else it's a bad design[/QUOTE] [b] "if I don't like it it's a bad design" [/b] [QUOTE=Rusty100;29630541] [b]you will go to the end of the earth to defend urself and ur work against any critisism stop it!!!![/b][/QUOTE] Look, rus, you're a great moderator and I loved it back when I would draw penises in your hand on live camera. [img]http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Sombody123/k00lwhipstream/untitled10_copy.png[/img] (remember those times? those were fun times) but come on. You aren't criticizing it. you're picking at its little details in an attempt to prove that you are more correct over one person. To think this is all just from one page. The fact of the matter is that Chains may have used the crisis nano-suit as a base, but the thing about art is that if you don't have a base, then where are you going to get your final? To draw a perfectly proportioned man, you must start with guide-lines. Maybe there are some people who can draw perfect circles, but go further and ask what can you turn those circles into? I don't understand what is so hard about accepting the fact that chains did a very nice rough-up, and it's similar to the crysis nano-suit but not exactly the same. Similarities don't prove rip-offs. Especially when it comes to concept art. [QUOTE=Detlef;29634625]well yeah chains is a bad concept designer if he rips off other designs, that's like the biggest no-no in the industry. But this should go without saying[/QUOTE] You have absolutely no right to say that, Chains may not be a concept artist but if it's what he likes and that's what he's working towards then let him for pete's sake. Dets, you can post videos all you want of what you know about being a concept artist but until you actually become one you have absolutely no right to slap a video in our faces and tell us that you are more correct than us. The basis of this argument is equivalent to a 10 year old trying to prove that he knows more about the military because he can post videos about how awesome they are as he is talking to other kids. God help you if an actual concept artist saw the kind of arguments that went on in this thread. And just for the record, how many of you have actually walked through the concept and design wing of a developing video game studio, or have walked through the story board and concept section of a film studio? There are thousands of little tiny pieces that all look the same or look like other people's art work, because that is where inspiration and that is where the final designs come from. Millions of times I could have gone "huh that looks like this other movie i saw" "huh that's an Alfred Hitchcock camera angle you got there" when I was touring through an Independent film studio's story board and concept section, but i didn't because I understood that conceptual designs are concepts that are derived from other designs. What is art anyway besides the continual copying of one subject with another medium? --- Chains is an amazing artist and he's grown a lot, we all have, i posted about it earlier, but when Chains and I were cultivating ourselves in this section of facepunch we were cultivating ourselves with other artists who were either more experienced or equally experienced and they helped us by giving us ideas, designs, telling us [b]"That looks really similar you should probably add ___ or ___ to make it unique and cool looking!" [/b] instead of [b]"that looks really similar and you probably ripped it off of something" [/b]. and simply saying that your type of critique is a form of 'tough love' is simply not an excuse to insult an amateur or growing artist in any way. There is a fine line between constructive, and destructive criticism, and although you all maybe be very helpful, you are riding that line. There are people who lurk this section of the forums always looking for our art and for our examples, and a lot have told me that they simply don't want to post because they feel like they'd get eaten out by the community, mostly i've been given your names. Because of that, some people are not getting the same experiences that True wolf, or Onox, or Chains, or any of us have gotten when we were growing up here, and honestly that's sad. [highlight]Because if it's one thing that art is about, it's about acceptance. [/highlight] And we need to accept that people start off bad, and end up good. I drew crap like this: [img]http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v679/39/73/579842497/n579842497_1692490_5617.jpg[/img][img]http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkjm4dsjfc1qg4tzxo1_500.png[/img] but now because of the creationism corner and all the advice people have given me and all the constructive criticism i recieved from the artists i grew up here with like chains, onox , redpanda (remember redpanda?), everybody, and especially truewolf (lazylion) I can draw like this : and just for the record. chains used to draw like this [img]http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/1chains1/speedpaintcopy-1-1-1.png[/img][img]http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/1chains1/armor-1.jpg[/img] now he draws like this I mean look at that! Maybe it's based off of the crysis suit but LOOK AT THAT! look at the improvement! And by continuing your form of destructive criticism and 'tough love' you are robbing people of their talents and you are putting down what could be great artists in the future. [highlight]I will whole-heartedly admit that 50 percent of the reason that I received my 20,000 dollar scholarship and cut my tuition for college in half is because of the [b]help[/b] I received here. It may have been a bumpy road to get where I am, especially with my art, but I had people here for me to help me out.[/highlight] I don't mean to sound like an after school special, but you guys are a lot better than this. The art community is supposed to be an accepting one, not one that is constantly competing. There are sports for that. Art is self expression and the expression of ideas in itself, so let people express and resist the temptation to depress that expression. instead, help cultivate it like we once did. at least for the sake of all the artists in this community start being nice :h: it's not about the armor anymore, it really isn't.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/pgI9Z.png[/img] Here's a stockphoto-referenced cherry that I got bored of. I'm still intent on drawing a cherry, so I will update this post with a better one from a better angle later.

I second everything that k00lwhip has mentioned thus far. Truewolf (Lazylion), K00lwhip, and I have been discussing the status of the Creationism Corner as of late and we've decided it's time to move on. Our opinions have changed from that of what they used to be and new members came. New members are always welcome and highly encouraged but when the new members are thrown down to the ground because of older "regarded" members because of their newness, it's really disheartening. The same applies for new members that try to follow suit with the "regarded" members. When the CC first picked up, we were all bad and we had to work our way to the top. Feel free to ban me forever or even for a little while. Either way, I won't be back. I have too much work in school to really check this place out anyways. Keep doing art, keep critiquing (properly), and stay kind to one another. It's a community, not a job. [img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/seeyouspacepuncher.png[/img]

Great post, and for the record I did that without a browser even open, so the crysis suit wasn't even on my mind while painting. It wasn't until Rusty posted that picture did I even see a slight resemblance. edit- I will miss you onox <3

[QUOTE=1chains1;29645872]Great post, and for the record I did that without a browser even open, so the crysis suit wasn't even on my mind while painting. It wasn't until Rusty posted that picture did I even see a slight resemblance. edit- I will miss you onox <3[/QUOTE] I will miss you too friend.

lol one drawing brewed up quite the shit storm

[QUOTE=onox37;29645908]I will miss you too friend.[/QUOTE] You should pm me your conceptart.org acc if you have one

[QUOTE=Heroms;29645909]lol one drawing brewed up quite the shit storm[/QUOTE] It wasn't one drawing, it was the growth, or, in this case the digression of this whole community over a period of time. It used to be a very helpful community, now it's this. It's sad is what it is. [editline]5th May 2011[/editline] My only regret is that redpanda and xerios are not currently with us.

Ah well I didn't really browse the Creationism Corner until a couple of months ago.

Youre making me feel old koolwhip. Its like going to some high school reunion and finding someone vandalized the old hang out.