Creative Work That Doesn't Deserve A Thread - Detlef's Detlef edition - General

sorry :h:

[QUOTE=k00lwhip;29646068]sorry :h:[/QUOTE] No, its fine, it all needed to be said badly. Sad part is that this stuff never sticks or goes to the heart, its the internet after all.

[QUOTE=k00lwhip;29645954]It wasn't one drawing, it was the growth, or, in this case the digression of this whole community over a period of time. It used to be a very helpful community, now it's this. It's sad is what it is. [editline]5th May 2011[/editline] My only regret is that redpanda is not currently with us.[/QUOTE] Don't forget Xerios, he moved out of the CC a while back too.

[QUOTE=theLazyLion;29646118]Don't forget Xerios' red lining.[/QUOTE] Can't believe I forgot Xerios I miss his cat avatar.

Whatever happened to him? He just disappeared. Also I remember Ryu-gi's threads, god those were horrible.

[QUOTE=1chains1;29646140]Whatever happened to him? He just disappeared. [/QUOTE] I still talk to him every once in a while, he's over at the programming forum working on a game.

[QUOTE=onox37;29645852]... Truewolf (Lazylion), K00lwhip, and I have been discussing the status of the Creationism Corner as of late and we've decided it's time to move on. Our opinions have changed from that of what they used to be and new members came. New members are always welcome and highly encouraged but when the new members are thrown down to the ground because of older "regarded" members because of their newness, it's really disheartening. The same applies for new members that try to follow suit with the "regarded" members. When the CC first picked up, we were all bad and we had to work our way to the top. Feel free to ban me forever or even for a little while. Either way, I won't be back...[/QUOTE] Mahatma Gandhi once said, "Be the change you want to see in the world." If you move on, it isn't too helpful for anyone else, but I respect your decision. It would and will be disheartening to see good users, Lazy Lion being a good example (because, honestly, all of his responses I've seen have been well thought out, helpful, and encouraging), just outright leave. After seeing the improvement that has been shown, I would very much like to be a part of that. Personally, Facepunch is the best place for constructive criticism that I've found. The criticism I get at the moment from my school is not all too helpful (which will hopefully change upon entering college) and I receive next to none on other websites (namely dA, which I'm not too fond of). For the sake of newer artists and members, such as myself, I would like to ask, in this case, the aforementioned group to stay.

[QUOTE=Toastador;29646171]Mahatma Gandhi once said, "Be the change you want to see in the world." If you move on, it isn't too helpful for anyone else, but I respect your decision. It would and will be disheartening to see good users, Lazy Lion being a good example (because, honestly, all of his responses I've seen have been well thought out, helpful, and encouraging), just outright leave. After seeing the improvement that has been shown, I would very much like to be a part of that. Personally, Facepunch is the best place for constructive criticism that I've found. The criticism I get at the moment from my school is not all too helpful (which will hopefully change upon entering college) and I receive next to none on other websites (namely dA, which I'm not too fond of). For the sake of newer artists and members, such as myself, I would like to ask, in this case, the aforementioned group to stay.[/QUOTE] I find that deviant art is where you go to get your work famous. Cg society.org has pretty much the best examples of critique, it's where you should go if you really want to improve the most. Concept art.org is where you go when you're already good, and improve slightly. This place used to be good for chilling with a tight community, posting art, having a laugh, and getting better at the same time, though now I'm just not too sure.

Cgsociety.org has some nasty people though, more so than here.

[QUOTE=k00lwhip;29646319]Cgsociety.org has some nasty people though, more so than here.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but I think it definately doesn't make up the majority, it's mostly how I critique, and every once in a while they're are some harsh comments, but even those minority posts are usually backed up with facts and reasons.

don't leave guys :frown:

[QUOTE=1chains1;29641595] Now then, while rusty and detlef may not of had the best intentions with their crit, they were to some degree right. It was too close to the nanosuit for comfort. On the subject of the silhouette, the man specifically asked for a jack of all spades soldier, so I could not really make his stock suit too unique. Now there will be add on attachments with different functions that WILL change the silhouette. Also I do not like this green, I am experimenting with other color pallets, this one comes off to alienish in color. [img_thumb]http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/1chains1/armor-2-1.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] This is a better design :buddy: The small plates on the back remind me of the rails on a rifle, so it looks like you could put various gear on there (yay modularity = futuristic)

[QUOTE=Xephio;29598767][img_thumb]http://gyazo.com/6edc9947b4a8965fc34eb76962b897ed.png[/img_thumb] godamit jesus lord the shadow looks like shit fuck[/QUOTE] Save the image from Save for Web and Devices... not Save As. That'll keep the colours right. [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Detlef;29630573]concept art isn't really about art, but about design design. So if the design is a ripoff it doesn't matter how good it's drawn[/QUOTE] Sometimes ripping stuff just works. And I use the word ripping here very loosely because I think chain's drawing looks more like inspired than ripped. It too uses small moving parts but it's more technical than the muscle-suit looking nanosuit. [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Detlef;29634038]I'm not talking about drawing it, the drawing techique has NOTHING to do with it. I'm talking about it's purpose. What is concept art used for and what rules are there to think of when ur designing something Also this is the point I'm trying to make [img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/7SVEL.png[/img_thumb] It's the same thing. same design[/QUOTE] That is a human figure. My god, it looks like there's a human inside all of that armor. They have different enough silhouettes. [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Detlef;29634625]well yeah chains is a bad concept designer if he rips off other designs, that's like the biggest no-no in the industry. But this should go without saying[/QUOTE] The whole industry is based on ripping off good stuff and leaving out the bad stuff. In game design AND art. [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] Also chains don't take this as defence for you, someone just needs to tell detlef that he's wrong about some of this stuff.

so ur all leaving now. Just for an argument? [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] The community isn't falling apart, we had a discussion, it's over and we can move on. Don't be so melodramatic, communities comes with it's ups and downs

[QUOTE=k00lwhip;29645690][b]" It looks like it therefore it is it " [/b] [b] "you're giving me excuses because you won't accept that i'm right" [/b] [b] "It looks like it, therefore it is a blatant rip off of it. [/b] [b] "chains stop making excuses and just accept that i'm right " [/b] [b] "if I don't like it it's a bad design" [/b] Look, rus, you're a great moderator and I loved it back when I would draw penises in your hand on live camera. [img_thumb]http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Sombody123/k00lwhipstream/untitled10_copy.png[/img_thumb] (remember those times? those were fun times) but come on. You aren't criticizing it. you're picking at its little details in an attempt to prove that you are more correct over one person. To think this is all just from one page. The fact of the matter is that Chains may have used the crisis nano-suit as a base, but the thing about art is that if you don't have a base, then where are you going to get your final? To draw a perfectly proportioned man, you must start with guide-lines. Maybe there are some people who can draw perfect circles, but go further and ask what can you turn those circles into? I don't understand what is so hard about accepting the fact that chains did a very nice rough-up, and it's similar to the crysis nano-suit but not exactly the same. Similarities don't prove rip-offs. Especially when it comes to concept art. You have absolutely no right to say that, Chains may not be a concept artist but if it's what he likes and that's what he's working towards then let him for pete's sake. Dets, you can post videos all you want of what you know about being a concept artist but until you actually become one you have absolutely no right to slap a video in our faces and tell us that you are more correct than us. The basis of this argument is equivalent to a 10 year old trying to prove that he knows more about the military because he can post videos about how awesome they are as he is talking to other kids. God help you if an actual concept artist saw the kind of arguments that went on in this thread. And just for the record, how many of you have actually walked through the concept and design wing of a developing video game studio, or have walked through the story board and concept section of a film studio? There are thousands of little tiny pieces that all look the same or look like other people's art work, because that is where inspiration and that is where the final designs come from. Millions of times I could have gone "huh that looks like this other movie i saw" "huh that's an Alfred Hitchcock camera angle you got there" when I was touring through an Independent film studio's story board and concept section, but i didn't because I understood that conceptual designs are concepts that are derived from other designs. What is art anyway besides the continual copying of one subject with another medium? --- Chains is an amazing artist and he's grown a lot, we all have, i posted about it earlier, but when Chains and I were cultivating ourselves in this section of facepunch we were cultivating ourselves with other artists who were either more experienced or equally experienced and they helped us by giving us ideas, designs, telling us [b]"That looks really similar you should probably add ___ or ___ to make it unique and cool looking!" [/b] instead of [b]"that looks really similar and you probably ripped it off of something" [/b]. and simply saying that your type of critique is a form of 'tough love' is simply not an excuse to insult an amateur or growing artist in any way. There is a fine line between constructive, and destructive criticism, and although you all maybe be very helpful, you are riding that line. There are people who lurk this section of the forums always looking for our art and for our examples, and a lot have told me that they simply don't want to post because they feel like they'd get eaten out by the community, mostly i've been given your names. Because of that, some people are not getting the same experiences that True wolf, or Onox, or Chains, or any of us have gotten when we were growing up here, and honestly that's sad. [highlight]Because if it's one thing that art is about, it's about acceptance. [/highlight] And we need to accept that people start off bad, and end up good. I drew crap like this: [img_thumb]http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v679/39/73/579842497/n579842497_1692490_5617.jpg[/img_thumb][img_thumb]http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkjm4dsjfc1qg4tzxo1_500.png[/img_thumb] but now because of the creationism corner and all the advice people have given me and all the constructive criticism i recieved from the artists i grew up here with like chains, onox , redpanda (remember redpanda?), everybody, and especially truewolf (lazylion) I can draw like this : and just for the record. chains used to draw like this [img_thumb]http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/1chains1/speedpaintcopy-1-1-1.png[/img_thumb][img_thumb]http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/1chains1/armor-1.jpg[/img_thumb] now he draws like this I mean look at that! Maybe it's based off of the crysis suit but LOOK AT THAT! look at the improvement! And by continuing your form of destructive criticism and 'tough love' you are robbing people of their talents and you are putting down what could be great artists in the future. [highlight]I will whole-heartedly admit that 50 percent of the reason that I received my 20,000 dollar scholarship and cut my tuition for college in half is because of the [b]help[/b] I received here. It may have been a bumpy road to get where I am, especially with my art, but I had people here for me to help me out.[/highlight] I don't mean to sound like an after school special, but you guys are a lot better than this. The art community is supposed to be an accepting one, not one that is constantly competing. There are sports for that. Art is self expression and the expression of ideas in itself, so let people express and resist the temptation to depress that expression. instead, help cultivate it like we once did. at least for the sake of all the artists in this community start being nice :h:[/QUOTE] The only thing I'm going to bother replying to is your resonses to what I wrote It look(ed) VERY VERY SIMILAR. Now, it wasn't the same, no. But the whole purpose of is is that it was a design - it wasn't real, therefore the fact it can't be the same thing is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that it was a design that was incredibly similar to something else - it's less so now, chains himself even said that we were partially right and he did make more of an effort to strey away from the nanosuit looking design. Never is my CC destructive - I merely have a short patience for chains as he's proven himself to be entirely self centered in the past and was only continuing down a similar path in his response to my initial post of 'It looks a bit like the nanosuit' - he was explaining it away with intricate details which completely misses the point in the first place - it still resembles very closely something else. And realistically, you're doing the same thing as me. I'm right and you're wrong, except that you're saying you're right in the 'can't we all get along' way. Summarizing my arguments to a 'I'm right you're wrong' is really dumb, you can do that with any argument - it's an argument (or a discussion) and you've done so to discredit mine falsely. Of course I believed I was right, as others believe they are right. What's the point in pointing that out? And anyone leaving is not the kind of person you want here in the first place. Who decides to get up and bail because of a little meaningless drama that was hardly drama in the first place? It's not drama for me. It's you guys who DECIDE TO MAKE IT DRAMA or VIEW IT AS DRAMA. It's only drama now that you've made a huge long winded post about it (and prompting this reply) CC Is and always has been a place for people to post their art and comment on other peoples art - since WHEN was the primary goal to get better? People go to school for that, they post on sites dedicated to that - it's not what this place is at all and many of you may have the wrong idea about that. I'm not just going to agree with you like some others because your post was long, and it was nicer. CC is a little place to get some extra critique or just comment on stuff and share your work, if I want to tell chains his work is too similar to another persons work then what's the problem with that? If he wants to defend it beyond all reasonable doubt with tiny intricate details that don't effect the overall style and look of the work he can - if I want to dispute that I can too. Who cares? It's an internet forum, that's what it's for. [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] You're being too melodramatic and seeing drama where you want to and making a big deal out of it when it isn't one. [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] Anyone who leaves because of this or even has to declare they're leaving doesn't deserve an ounce of respect, it's purely a self masturbatory quest on their own part and shows a real shoddy character.

[img_thumb]http://kuroshare.com/files/2886nd.png[/img_thumb] scrambled edd

I agree with onox. I remember xerios and many others which used to be here and I have heard many of their reasons for not coming back. Something's changed here, and to be honest it sucks. Not because I just lost an argument now, I have been thinking it for the last few months. People just continuously try to get one up on each other. You're all forgetting that this places isn't here to increase your 'respect' in the community but to share art and help others with a few laughs along the way.

[QUOTE=Greeneyes;29649314]I agree with onox. I remember xerios and many others which used to be here and I have heard many of their reasons for not coming back. Something's changed here, and to be honest it sucks. Not because I just lost an argument now, I have been thinking it for the last few months. People just continuously try to get one up on each other. You're all forgetting that this places isn't here to increase your 'respect' in the community but to share art and help others with a few laughs along the way.[/QUOTE] that's what happens when you put a few artists in one place, Art is personal, it reflects what you think looks good so hearing "that looks crap" is hurtful and some people just can't deal with it. Obviously here much better advice is given but it still boils down to "I don't like what you did, change it" and some people take it the wrong way even though we have good intentions.

You weren't here when it was much better then.

[QUOTE=Greeneyes;29649414]You weren't here when it was much better then.[/QUOTE] I have been here for a while, I only noticed friction when 1chains1 posted his detlef painting

Wow I nearly died when I read this over dramatic page. I think all of you guys involved are great artists don't get me wrong but going all 'shit used to be better, i'm out' because of a discussion about a drawing (which we are here for) is a bit of an overreaction if you ask me.

WIP drawing, I'm practicing my drapery rendering. [IMG]http://gyazo.com/8028adf91245e0954a4449f8eff151d5.png[/IMG]

Here is Mr. Circle [img]http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/126/9/f/mr__circle_by_abigdick-d3foury.png[/img] He loves you. I made it in paint.net whilst I was bored, thought he looked cute.

[QUOTE=lucky;29645818][img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/pgI9Z.png[/img_thumb] Here's a stockphoto-referenced cherry that I got bored of. I'm still intent on drawing a cherry, so I will update this post with a better one from a better angle later.[/QUOTE] looks nice. i like the brushwork. it's sketchy... but detailed. it's kinda cute in a way, whether that's what you were aiming for or not i dunno but i like it the only thing i'd say is that the top of the cherry, especially on the left, looks a bit flat - the curvature is gone because it's one flat tone by the looks of things i'd say render the stem in a bit more detail too or perhaps make the shadows darker because right now it kinda looks like it was painted in a different style to the body of the cherry also, is the stem in the stock photo really that pale green? doesn't quite look right. i dunno though as i haven't seen the reference picture lovely work, keep at it!

[QUOTE=Protection;29650353]Here is Mr. Circle [img_thumb]http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/126/9/f/mr__circle_by_abigdick-d3foury.png[/img_thumb] He loves you. I made it in paint.net whilst I was bored, thought he looked cute.[/QUOTE] get famous and this will be your mona lisa, it will be the piece of art that defines your entire career and livelihood. [QUOTE=Kurtzund;29650200]WIP drawing, I'm practicing my drapery rendering. [img_thumb]http://gyazo.com/8028adf91245e0954a4449f8eff151d5.png[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] Looks great, do not be afraid to go even darker, and make sure that whatever reference you are paying attention to you acknowledge the real values between dark, and light, and remember that there isn't just white black and grey, there are thousands of different tones in between them. One thing you want to pay attention to in drapery especially is something that was really hard for me to catch on, but if you look closely enough there is light reflected back into the shadow, creating a luminous effect and making it look more like drapery than just blocks of colour. [quote=Rusty100]Never is my CC destructive - I merely have a short patience for chains as he's proven himself to be entirely self centered in the past and was only continuing down a similar path in his response to my initial post of 'It looks a bit like the nanosuit' - he was explaining it away with intricate details which completely misses the point in the first place - it still resembles very closely something else.[/quote] So you're saying it's okay to be mean to someone because if he was mean at one point then he obviously doesn't have the capacity to change. So you're inviting us to be mean to chains, a wonderful artist, simply because he said some things you didn't like. So if I started calling you names and being mean to you because i didn't like the stuff you said to me just now it'd be totally okay ? You're inviting us to join in your game of insults but I say good sir that I won't. [QUOTE=Rusty100;29648127] CC Is and always has been a place for people to post their art and comment on other peoples art - since WHEN was the primary goal to get better? People go to school for that, they post on sites dedicated to that - it's not what this place is at all and many of you may have the wrong idea about that. [/QUOTE] Who are you to dictate this? and why shouldn't it and why can't it be a place to help people get better? Does being an overall mean community fit us into a stereotypical online community setting that is the only option for the people here? The creationism corner is here to encourage art, why can't we encourage it even more? We get loads and loads of new people posting their stuff asking to get better and asking for help on what to do and what to study but what have we given them other than harsh words [QUOTE=Rusty100;29648127] Anyone who leaves because of this or even has to declare they're leaving doesn't deserve an ounce of respect, it's purely a self masturbatory quest on their own part and shows a real shoddy character.[/QUOTE] Insults and shots at our character are the exact thing that you guys need to stop. None of us explicitly stated that we were leaving except for onox, yet the general assumption because we don't agree with you guys is that we are. It's is true that Onox and True and I have been discussing things, but that's just a given because we're actual friends outside of these forums, heck they go to the same school, and in fact, chains even said that he might be joining me next, next year too. (lolit'dbereallyfunnyifweallendedupworkingtogetherorsomething) Onox actually gave an explanation to why he was leaving and that's simply because his college courses don't exactly allocate him with enough time for himself. True and I simply stated that there are some things that are happening that all in all shouldn't [b] especially in a forum specified for art [/b] again, art relies on acceptance and encouragement. A lot of us have made some ludicrous excuses for art in the past but we were [i]never[/i] put down at the rate that some currently are. Understand that what I wrote and what True wrote and what Onox wrote was not just for you or detlef or anybody else that we've called out in the past, it's just that it saddens us that some of the best artists on this board are turning away from what art really is. - - - But maybe we are wrong, maybe you're right and your brand of criticism is what's best for this bored. Maybe we have a sense of 'old thinking' and what you are doing is symbolic of a 'new' type of thinking entering this board. But our references to the past are simply exhibiting the fact that more good artists are spawned in a good, nice, accepting community than that of one that constantly puts down and does not use a filter. We at the creationism corner need to the the proponents of what it is to be an artist, hobbyists or professional. We need to be proponents of the ideals of the arts. not opponents to them.

k00lwhip, you're definitely writing the next I had a dream speech

[QUOTE=strider;29649621]Wow I nearly died when I read this over dramatic page. I think all of you guys involved are great artists don't get me wrong but going all 'shit used to be better, i'm out' because of a discussion about a drawing (which we are here for) is a bit of an overreaction if you ask me.[/QUOTE] i think leaving the forum over it is silly (although onox gave legitimate reasons for his leaving... not that i feel it was necessary to [i]tell[/i] everyone he was leaving) but, that said, having like 3 pages of argument over a generic suit of armour that resembles another generic suit of armour is even sillier, especially when it pretty much gets proven that the basis of both parties' arguments was flawed in the first place, as demonstrated by lazylion's analysis there's art posted on this page. we should critique it.

Just to finish this discussion I posted this video pages ago but it got ignored and i'm wondering what you guys actually think of it. it was done in like 3 hours most of which was aligning the pictures. [media]http://vimeo.com/22830114[/media] oh nice my worst piece of work gets page king. At least it won't get ignored.

i dont know shit about video editing but i like the song and the style of the transitions and text n stuff that said, the whole style seems like it should be an advert for a camera or something.... the music is kinda cliched.

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;29650768]i dont know shit about video editing but i like the song and the style of the transitions and text n stuff that said, the whole style seems like it should be an advert for a camera or something.... the music is kinda cliched.[/QUOTE] yeah but when I asked for song advice in the music section I was spammed with chocolate rain, always by erasure and eye of the tiger. I guess the 3D space whizzing around stuff does give it a "buy the new cannon 40 eos D" sort of feel