[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;49991819]MGSV and Peace Walker both assume you know the events of MGS4. Cypher, Motherbase, and Major Zero all have no connection to the player if they just go straight in from MGS3 (or Portable Ops). If you just go from 3 to PW you get shit like Miller popping up out of no where, which only works in release order because the players know Miller from Metal Gear 2 [sp]and his death in MGS1.[/sp]
Skullface's entire character and his actions have no punch if you don't know what their ultimate effects are. [sp]Him disabling Zero and preventing Zero and Big Boss from reconciling is what resulted in Metal Gear and everything that followed, without Skullface there is no conflict but without the knowledge of that conflict the significance of what he does is lost. It just becomes a terrible thing done by a vindictive asshole.[/sp][/QUOTE]
Not true at all. I've played them in chronological order for my first entry into the series.(I have since replayed them all again in release order, and I didn't "learn" anything new.) If you pay attention to 3 then Major Zero has plenty of connection. Not to mention Miller popping up is explained, as Johnny said, through audio logs. He doesn't just "pop up." But you're essentially meeting him for almost the first time just as Boss does. [sp]Which makes his eventual death in MGS1 all that much more tragic.[/sp] You meet this charismatic fun loving guy and you see his character grow through PW, GZ, MGSV, MG 1/2, then MGS 1.
As far as Skullface, you're right in that it doesn't make sense entirely as you play MGSV, but you get to see what his motives and actions on Zero and Cypher cause as you move through the games. [sp]It really hits home in MGS 2 when you kinda take in that a lot of and possibly none of the big shell incident and arsenal gear would've happened if it wasn't for Skullface disabling Zero and Cypher/the Patriots making the AI take over.[/sp]
Like, it's just my personal opinion, but chronologically the emotional impacts of things hit so much more because you grow through Big Boss and then get to undo everything you've done as Big Boss using Solid Snake. Simultaneously understanding the bigger picture at play behind the scenes. The only downside to not playing them in release order is not understanding a few "In-Jokes" which i can sacrifice for a much better story.
[QUOTE=Paige;49992389]Not true at all. I've played them in chronological order for my first entry into the series.(I have since replayed them all again in release order, and I didn't "learn" anything new.) If you pay attention to 3 then Major Zero has plenty of connection. Not to mention Miller popping up is explained, as Johnny said, through audio logs. He doesn't just "pop up." But you're essentially meeting him for almost the first time just as Boss does. [sp]Which makes his eventual death in MGS1 all that much more tragic.[/sp] You meet this charismatic fun loving guy and you see his character grow through PW, GZ, MGSV, MG 1/2, then MGS 1.
As far as Skullface, you're right in that it doesn't make sense entirely as you play MGSV, but you get to see what his motives and actions on Zero and Cypher cause as you move through the games. [sp]It really hits home in MGS 2 when you kinda take in that a lot of and possibly none of the big shell incident and arsenal gear would've happened if it wasn't for Skullface disabling Zero and Cypher/the Patriots making the AI take over.[/sp]
Like, it's just my personal opinion, but chronologically the emotional impacts of things hit so much more because you grow through Big Boss and then get to undo everything you've done as Big Boss using Solid Snake. Simultaneously understanding the bigger picture at play behind the scenes. The only downside to not playing them in release order is not understanding a few "In-Jokes" which i can sacrifice for a much better story.[/QUOTE]
It's not just in-jokes though, it's major plot details. A couple of examples: [sp]In MGS2 you find out that The Patriots are twelve men known as The Wisemen's Committee, although they died over 100 years ago. In MGS3, you find out that The Philosophers were known as The Wiseman's Committee and their American branch went on to be known as The Patriots. If MGS3 is your first game, the last sentence is entirely new to you. If you'd played MGS2, it's a revelation with a very significant meaning.
In Peace Walker, you get the speech from Paz on the formation of "Cipher". The game supposes you know your stuff already, so it gives very little on Zero and Big Boss forming this group. If you've only played MGS3 beforehand, this'll be a mysterious little anecdote. If you've played in release order then you know that Cipher is The Patriots, and all about the extremely relevant war between Big Boss and Zero from MGS4.[/sp] The series was created to work in release order, ironically the chronological order makes things a whole lot less coherent.
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;49993501]It's not just in-jokes though, it's major plot details. A couple of examples: [sp]In MGS2 you find out that The Patriots are twelve men known as The Wisemen's Committee, although they died over 100 years ago. In MGS3, you find out that The Philosophers were known as The Wiseman's Committee and their American branch went on to be known as The Patriots. If MGS3 is your first game, the last sentence is entirely new to you. If you'd played MGS2, it's a revelation with a very significant meaning.
In Peace Walker, you get the speech from Paz on the formation of "Cipher". The game supposes you know your stuff already, so it gives very little on Zero and Big Boss forming this group. If you've only played MGS3 beforehand, this'll be a mysterious little anecdote. If you've played in release order then you know that Cipher is The Patriots, and all about the extremely relevant war between Big Boss and Zero from MGS4.[/sp] The series was created to work in release order, ironically the chronological order makes things a whole lot less coherent.[/QUOTE]
I knew both of those things just from playing it chronologically. If you pay attention in 3 it very clearly states both of those.
Seriously, the 2nd playthrough i did i learned nothing "new". The games are much better played chronologically.
[editline]23rd March 2016[/editline]
atleast in my opinion.
[QUOTE=Paige;49993567]I knew both of those things just from playing it chronologically. If you pay attention in 3 it very clearly states both of those.
Seriously, the 2nd playthrough i did i learned nothing "new". The games are much better played chronologically.
[editline]23rd March 2016[/editline]
atleast in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
That's not possible unless you've played the previous games though. Unless you have, [sp]there's no way when Volgin talks about The Wisemen's Committee that you know it's connected to The Patriots from MGS2. If you've played MGS2 then the statement in MGS3's ending timeline is a bombshell, not a footnote. There's also no way that you could know the full history of Cipher and The Patriots (or any connection between them) in Peace Walker without having played MGS4.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Paige;49993567]I knew both of those things just from playing it chronologically. If you pay attention in 3 it very clearly states both of those.
Seriously, the 2nd playthrough i did i learned nothing "new". The games are much better played chronologically.
[editline]23rd March 2016[/editline]
atleast in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
It's not about knowing the information, it's about the impact that information has when you learn it. The code phrase "Who are the Patriots?" "La-li-lu-le-lo" has no impact on you if MGS3 is your first game, but if you've played MGS2 it immediately gets you wondering where the story is going.
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;49993990]That's not possible unless you've played the previous games though. Unless you have, [sp]there's no way when Volgin talks about The Wisemen's Committee that you know it's connected to The Patriots from MGS2. If you've played MGS2 then the statement in MGS3's ending timeline is a bombshell, not a footnote. There's also no way that you could know the full history of Cipher and The Patriots (or any connection between them) in Peace Walker without having played MGS4.[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]you're right in that you don't know that it's connected to the patriots from MGS2, but again like i said earlier. When you play the Big Boss era games, you see yourself creating the war economy and nations, leading up to the events of the Solid Snake era. When you play the Solid Snake era, as you move through dismantling everything you've just done, you being to see the behind the scenes and understand everything that lead to this point. Not to mention it's another reveal of "Oh, so that's what that was, it's all starting to come together!"[/sp]
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;49994014]It's not about knowing the information, it's about the impact that information has when you learn it. The code phrase "Who are the Patriots?" "La-li-lu-le-lo" has no impact on you if MGS3 is your first game, but if you've played MGS2 it immediately gets you wondering where the story is going.[/QUOTE]
it has plenty of impact, though. as a callback to "Oh, wow, I remember that!" sort of moment. For me it really set the tone that these 6 people created this vast network in The Patriots AI's that eventually overtook the planet, essentially.
[editline]:/[/editline]
I can't tell if i'm derailing the thread or not, but i feel like I am. On-Topic: I like johnny's reviews so far. And he's pretty spot on in this one. Peacewalker is a grind heavy game especially towards the end but it's definitely one of the most fun(HD collection anyways) and It has a pretty special place in my heart.
[QUOTE=Zantze;49961044]Which thumbnail is worse, Johnny's or Caddicaruses?[/QUOTE]
Caddicarus' have taken a fucking nose dive that's for sure
I'm not really 100% on what's worse, thumbnails that have always been bad, or thumbnails that went from serviceable to bad over time.
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