XLR Microphones vs USB Condenser Microphones

[redBadger]

snip woops

[editline]1st May 2015[/editline]

I don't deal too much in post 'noise reduction' part so I wouldn't know about that.

[editline]1st May 2015[/editline]

[t]http://i.imgur.com/nq2aV1Y.jpg[/t]

This is more my (unfortunate) life

[Nazereth666]

[QUOTE=redBadger;47641862]snip woops

[editline]1st May 2015[/editline]

I don't deal too much in post 'noise reduction' part so I wouldn't know about that.

[editline]1st May 2015[/editline]

[t]http://i.imgur.com/nq2aV1Y.jpg[/t]

This is more my (unfortunate) life[/QUOTE]

I feel ya man...

[img_thumb]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/modderman2/20141017_152956.jpg[/img_thumb]

This thing can get busy real fast.

Luckily this is mostly my view.

[img]https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10959845_10203343648612433_4770075841589078394_n.jpg?oh=e1b0f91d560dbc4748238a38556f4de4&oe=55CE079A[/img]

[It's crispy]

[QUOTE=Doakes;47641823]It's absolutely true that the industry standard is Audition, which clients have specifically requested a lot of times. However, Audacity works just fine in regards to basic recording and plug-in effects. I've used it on nearly every video game and commercial I've been a part of, and the audio quality is ultimately the same as what I'd get from Audition, because I don't use EQ on either or or DARE tamper with Audacity's God awful Noise Reduction. Straight recording and plug-ins used specifically for effects and not for the sake of adjusting the audio quality and Audacity is more than sufficient (courtesy of outstanding Noise Removal from NCH Suite's WavePad Sound Editor.)[/QUOTE]

Audacity's Noise Reduction is actually pretty good

I use it all the time, together with its compression

[Demache]

[QUOTE=Eric95;47645188]Audacity's Noise Reduction is actually pretty good

I use it all the time, together with its compression[/QUOTE]

Didn't they change the plugin recently too, so it works a lot better? I haven't tried it though.

[Shootzki]

For anyone who wants to get some really good, clean voice recordings, a pre-amp and an XLR mic is very much recommended. I use a Steinberg UR22 pre-amp, and for being among the cheapest and simplest pre-amps out there, it cleaned up my sound incredibly. Even right now, I'm using a dynamic microphone instead of a condenser (it was a hand-me-down. I don't have the money to spare right now for a condenser,) and it sounds pretty good.

Doakes, any recommendations for a good condenser mic to invest in? I voice act as a hobby, but I got this role with a nice little indie game start-up and I want to sound as good as I can when the time comes to record for them. The dynamic mic works, but it's more of a stage mic than a studio one.

[editline]edit[/editline]

By the way, my voice clip in my title is super old and I had no idea how to produce a good sound. It was also before my pre-amp came along :v:

[londonbeckett]

[QUOTE=nomad1;47634528]So was getting a AT2020 USB mic a bad choice for when I need to voice my own youtube video's / usage for talking during gaming? I got it when it was going for 149.00 on Amazon.[/QUOTE]

That's pretty much perfect for what you need it for. I would suggest investing in a pop filter, shock mount, and some sort of heavy duty stand if you haven't already.

[matty928]

Perfect timing for this thread,I'm a singer and i'm looking for something to record with
I'm using A blue Nessie at the moment but thats better for Voice-Over/Radio work

Whats facepunch's opinion of this for singing with?
[url]http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00Q4FF5FK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A37AOQJSNFYSTX[/url]
Also any good software recommendations?

[Βlasphemy]

Is it bad that my pre-amp doesn't have a USB interface for my computer? Right now I have my Shure SM57 connect to my XENYX 802, which outputs to a Dual 1/4" cable which turns into a single 1/8" which plugs in the back of my motherboard.

Am I missing a lot of audio quality by doing this?

[redBadger]

[QUOTE=matty928;47647832]Perfect timing for this thread,I'm a singer and i'm looking for something to record with
I'm using A blue Nessie at the moment but thats better for Voice-Over/Radio work

Whats facepunch's opinion of this for singing with?
[url]http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00Q4FF5FK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A37AOQJSNFYSTX[/url]
Also any good software recommendations?[/QUOTE]

Focusrite is very good

[editline]2nd May 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=Leintharien;47647976]Is it bad that my pre-amp doesn't have a USB interface for my computer? Right now I have my Shure SM57 connect to my XENYX 802, which outputs to a Dual 1/4" cable which turns into a single 1/8" which plugs in the back of my motherboard.

Am I missing a lot of audio quality by doing this?[/QUOTE]

Probably not. Most preamps are supposed to connect to the motherboard anyway.

[Crest]

How much of that sound difference is it being 2020 vs 2035, and how much is it being USB vs XLR+Preamp. I've come across plenty of these tests online and I haven't seen a major difference if it's between the same model. Going off amazon, the 2035 is 50% more than the 2020. It's not entirely apples to apples.

This is coming from someone who has used the same 2020 USB mic since prob 2009. I obviously want to upgrade and don't want to defend it, just wonder how much is the the 50% increase in mic price and how much is simply the interface.

[Nomad]

[QUOTE=Doakes;47635982]Not at all. It's not only perfectly sufficient for youtube videos and personal usage, but with the right equipment, it works for professional gigs as well. But without them, the compression is a bit more noticeable.

It's ultimately dependent on what you aim to get out of voice over.[/QUOTE]

Oh cool! Good to know I made a fairly decent investment.

[mark6789]

Am i the only one who thought the USB mic sounded better and crisper?

[redBadger]

[QUOTE=Brt5470;47648075]How much of that sound difference is it being 2020 vs 2035, and how much is it being USB vs XLR+Preamp. I've come across plenty of these tests online and I haven't seen a major difference if it's between the same model. Going off amazon, the 2035 is 50% more than the 2020. It's not entirely apples to apples.

This is coming from someone who has used the same 2020 USB mic since prob 2009. I obviously want to upgrade and don't want to defend it, just wonder how much is the the 50% increase in mic price and how much is simply the interface.[/QUOTE]

There's a huge difference. You'll definitely notice with better monitors. Its much cleaner and crisper.
The interface will probably cost just as much as the mic.

[SgtTupelo]

[QUOTE=mark6789;47648732]Am i the only one who thought the USB mic sounded better and crisper?[/QUOTE]

I have a bad hearing defect and I thought the USB mic sounded like shit.
You are indeed the only one. :v:

[Bathacker]

I've always wanted to get into voice acting... Are there any good guides for making your voice sound nice?

[redBadger]

[QUOTE=Bathacker;47651906]I've always wanted to get into voice acting... Are there any good guides for making your voice sound nice?[/QUOTE]

Record with a good mic in an isobooth. That's really all there is to it.

[Doakes]

[QUOTE=Bathacker;47651906]I've always wanted to get into voice acting... Are there any good guides for making your voice sound nice?[/QUOTE]Getting your voice to sound nice is only half the journey. The key; above everything else, is getting a handle on acting. Doing practice reads of monologues, various scenes of various genres, really paying attention to the delivery of other actors, getting an ear for it, and so on. It's not something that comes overnight, mind you, so practice frequently, it's also strongly advised to take courses in acting; stage and film alike. And only when you get a solid grasp on acting, do you want to consider picking up a mic.

[Zenpod]

[QUOTE=Jamsponge;47626931]What if I'm looking at getting the Yeti Pro, which is basically a Yeti with an XLR output? Would that be any good or is it tainted by being associated with the Yeti?[/QUOTE]

For just a bit cheaper you can get the Blue Bluebird microphone which when I'm doing studio work tends to find itself in front of a lot of people singing or recording, it's XLR obviously and looks kinda cool too.

[editline]4th May 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=redBadger;47651968]Record with a good mic in an isobooth. That's really all there is to it.[/QUOTE]

You don't necessarily need an isolation booth in my experience, admittedly I've only done vocals and not straight talking but you can shell out on a reflection filter for a microphone stand (Se Electronics make a decent one) and with you stood in front of the microphone you can minimize room reflections to an acceptable level, it's obviously not going to be as dead as an anechoic booth but it works in a squeeze.

[editline]4th May 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=Brt5470;47648075]How much of that sound difference is it being 2020 vs 2035, and how much is it being USB vs XLR+Preamp. I've come across plenty of these tests online and I haven't seen a major difference if it's between the same model. Going off amazon, the 2035 is 50% more than the 2020. It's not entirely apples to apples.

This is coming from someone who has used the same 2020 USB mic since prob 2009. I obviously want to upgrade and don't want to defend it, just wonder how much is the the 50% increase in mic price and how much is simply the interface.[/QUOTE]

They make an XLR version of the AT2020 for like 80 usd off the top of my head, in terms of fidelity it's okay. Lower tier studio grade if they don't have any Rode NT1as lying about. The difference I experience between USB/XLR is that XLR microphones have much lower noise ratios and flatter frequency responses, so you'll hear the lower frequencies of your voice so much more through an XLR microphone than a USB mic.

The thing with USB mics is aswell is that it's an entire interface including mic in one, so it's a full chain of Mic Diaphragm -> Internal Condenser Preamplifier -> probably another amplifier stage to get it to line level and then possibly some inbuilt dynamic processing -> tiny D2A Converter and all the USB odds and sods aswell. Where as in XLR it's just Diaphragm -> Internal Preamp -> XLR out.

[editline]4th May 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=pentium;47632130]I generally had good results with 1/4" jack microphones like the Audio Technica AT9100 even though they are generally in the $30-$70 range. If you get a cheap pop filter, vibration mount and a shitty table lamp you can also make a good stand that mounts anywhere.
That Matthews rig clamp costs more than the whole setup combined.
Never used a serious external DSP other than the Live! external sound box but I found that the front input jacks on the Audigy 2 ZS were decent enough at the expense of proper preamplification.

Also, I found the best way to make a cheap recording booth was to take the cardboard box from a water heater, line it with cardboard egg cartons and talk away while hiding inside.[/QUOTE]

The noise ratio on that microphone is always going to be much higher than most XLR microphones since it's an unbalanced connection, I'm not completely sure about yours but TRS/Jack microphones TEND to be cheap electret microphones of dubious quality, there are one or two exceptions (Shure Unidyne, but only the one that looks exactly like an SM57) but mostly they're pretty lacking in low end and made for amateur radio enthusiasts or sold in the 80s at radioshack for little home recording projects. Really not worth the effort in this day and age.

[editline]4th May 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=Nazereth666;47643673]

[img]https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10959845_10203343648612433_4770075841589078394_n.jpg?oh=e1b0f91d560dbc4748238a38556f4de4&oe=55CE079A[/img][/QUOTE]

Oh dude, not up to date on the older avid desks but isnt that a D command, I've only used the S6 and not too keen on the whole digi desk thing yet.

[redBadger]

Speaking of Avid desks, this is the one I really like in our studios:

[t]http://i.imgur.com/SQwBOGl.jpg[/t]

The S6 is a monster! I prefer it to our SSL AWS tbh

[Nazereth666]

[QUOTE=Zenpod;47654075]Oh dude, not up to date on the older avid desks but isnt that a D command, I've only used the S6 and not too keen on the whole digi desk thing yet.[/QUOTE]

Yes it is, we also have a Toft ATB 24 to the side which we use with our MCI JH-16 reel to reel. I am much more of an analog guy myself but digital is very efficient.

[PGunnii]

This actually came at such an opportune time. I'm doing a thing on YouTube now and I think I've got a setup that works really well. Right now I have an MXL 770 (budget, yes, but I did a bit of research and I think I got some good bang for buck) hooked up to a Scarlett Solo, with a pop filter and a cheap desk stand. Thus far it's sounded really, really good after touching it up in Audition. Generlly speaking my room can generate some seriously stressful background noise, and my mic is usually able to dodge it. After seeing that kaotic eyeball thing, I'm pretty sure that would eliminate the last bit of background noise I have.

I'm also looking into doing voice acting as a serious hobby. It really seems like something I enjoy and after doing some videos, I was told that my voice was very well suited for radio and the like. I know I have to upgrade, and I imagine the first thing would be the mic. I imagine at this point I should focus on potentially getting some sort of sound isolator like the eyeball and eventually a better mic?

Oh, also, is there some sort of guide on how much gain you should be using when recording? I have mine usually at like 3 o'clock but I have no idea if it's too much or too little. I tried to find the best balance between not picking up bg noise and picking up my voice properly.

[Doakes]

[QUOTE=KingKombat;47654981]I'm also looking into doing voice acting as a serious hobby. It really seems like something I enjoy and after doing some videos, I was told that my voice was very well suited for radio and the like. I know I have to upgrade, and I imagine the first thing would be the mic. I imagine at this point I should focus on potentially getting some sort of sound isolator like the eyeball and eventually a better mic?[/QUOTE]Before you do, it's important to really make sure that voice acting is something you really see yourself digging into; that you're heart's really into it. Ultimately, it's your money, of course, but you're going to want to make sure that if you're investing in better equipment, it's not just to sound better, but because you plan on making that money back.
[QUOTE]Oh, also, is there some sort of guide on how much gain you should be using when recording? I have mine usually at like 3 o'clock but I have no idea if it's too much or too little. I tried to find the best balance between not picking up bg noise and picking up my voice properly.[/QUOTE]Your gain level is constantly changing depending on the volume of your voice during any session. If it's a steady and consistent "speaking voice", then likely around 3-4 o'clock is fine. If you're getting loud, dial it back so the mic is still picking you up loud and clear, but not so much that your voice is getting distorted.

[Zenpod]

[QUOTE=Nazereth666;47654846]Yes it is, we also have a Toft ATB 24 to the side which we use with our MCI JH-16 reel to reel. I am much more of an analog guy myself but digital is very efficient.[/QUOTE]

I prefer analouge myself but haven't had any tape experience yet. We've got a Neve VRP48 in our top level studio with a 24-track machine there (Not a studer though) but I'm not allowed in there yet. The toft desk seems really rad, would like to hear how it sounds.

[editline]4th May 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=redBadger;47654609]Speaking of Avid desks, this is the one I really like in our studios:

[t]http://i.imgur.com/SQwBOGl.jpg[/t]

The S6 is a monster! I prefer it to our SSL AWS tbh[/QUOTE]

I'm actually not big on the S6 at all, it's cool as hell as a thing but the price point is fucking ridiculous, to the point where you could get a full Neve or SSL Desk and a bloody good one at that.

[editline]4th May 2015[/editline]

Since when did we have actual audio engineers on fp anyway, hella cool

[HybridTheroy]

[QUOTE=UberMunchkin;47647790]Well I feel like an idiot now for owning a Yeti :v:[/QUOTE]

Don't. It's a pretty good mic to start with if you can get it at a decent price. One of the only USB mics that are THX approved (correct me if I'm wrong)

[Nazereth666]

[QUOTE=Zenpod;47658361]Since when did we have actual audio engineers on fp anyway, hella cool[/QUOTE]

I hang out in the Guitar Discussion a lot haha, music has been my life but it wasn't until September last year that I was given the opportunity to join the Audio Engineering program at my college here. I spent some time in and out of studios up in Alaska a few years back and that really solidified my interest in engineering. I've been interested in the studio since I was a child and even as a toddler I was always messing with audio equipment haha. I'm a musician at heart but the information I am picking up is only so that I can have more knowledge under my belt.

I am lucky as hell to be in this program because the studio they have there and the teachers are just sublime for learning with, and we are given pretty much unlimited access to everything.

This is the long shot of our control room.

[img]https://scontent-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1470359_10202662880633659_524534471215481273_n.jpg?oh=4592906fc76aa68d047d6d0c8f628561&oe=55E15E5C[/img]

And the best piece of equipment in my opinion. :v:

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/modderman2/20150206_163319.jpg[/img]

[redBadger]

[QUOTE=Zenpod;47658361]I prefer analouge myself but haven't had any tape experience yet. We've got a Neve VRP48 in our top level studio with a 24-track machine there (Not a studer though) but I'm not allowed in there yet. The toft desk seems really rad, would like to hear how it sounds.

[editline]4th May 2015[/editline]

I'm actually not big on the S6 at all, it's cool as hell as a thing but the price point is fucking ridiculous, to the point where you could get a full Neve or SSL Desk and a bloody good one at that.

[editline]4th May 2015[/editline]

Since when did we have actual audio engineers on fp anyway, hella cool[/QUOTE]

That's why we have an S6 and an SSL AWS haha

[editline]4th May 2015[/editline]

The S6 is fantastic for digital mixing and working with pro tools is a breeze with it. But the SSL has access to the analogue compressors and EQs which makes it very appealing as well.

I also prefer the S6 for automation.

[Nazereth666]

[QUOTE=Zenpod;47658361]I prefer analouge myself but haven't had any tape experience yet. We've got a Neve VRP48 in our top level studio with a 24-track machine there (Not a studer though) but I'm not allowed in there yet. The toft desk seems really rad, would like to hear how it sounds.[/QUOTE]

It sounds pretty damn good, powerful EQ, plenty of auxs, and plenty of subgroups if you need them. We never really use the preamps on any of our boards though as you can see in that control room photo I posted above we have 16 API 512c preamps that we pretty much strictly use at least for tape. But we have had to use the preamps on the board before because we ran out of API preamps. 1-16 on the toft are normalled from the tape machine as our monitor strips and 17-24 are free to use at any time. We usually use them for the toms on drums if we have more than 3 toms or if we need to save a channel so we will patch the mic to the channels and use a panned subgroup to cut whatever we need down to two channels.

[editline]4th May 2015[/editline]

Here is a small sample of a band we brought in to record, all analog mixing mastering the whole thing. Not really my kind of music but you get the point.

[media]http://soundcloud.com/nazereth666/days-mci-2-inch[/media]

[Doakes]

[QUOTE=Brt5470;47648075]How much of that sound difference is it being 2020 vs 2035, and how much is it being USB vs XLR+Preamp. I've come across plenty of these tests online and I haven't seen a major difference if it's between the same model. Going off amazon, the 2035 is 50% more than the 2020. It's not entirely apples to apples.

This is coming from someone who has used the same 2020 USB mic since prob 2009. I obviously want to upgrade and don't want to defend it, just wonder how much is the the 50% increase in mic price and how much is simply the interface.[/QUOTE]
The simplest way I can put it is, the XLR's audio quality isn't compressed the way the USB mic is. With a great deal of post treatment, you can mask that quite well, and I've successfully done so with the AT2020 for 6 years, but having been in a number of games, when you're side-by-side with an actor who uses a proper XLR, it's crystal clear which one has better sound quality.

That was the biggest push for me to upgrade; I didn't want to be the weakest link with my audio quality, because regardless of acting abilities, that became a bit more noticeable in some of my later projects:
[QUOTE][video=youtube;cuZ15rifNok]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuZ15rifNok[/video][/QUOTE]
One of the harder aspects to mask are S's. A lot of points, my S's were a lot sharper than they should be. A lot of that was because to apply proper noise reduction, my audio had to be amplified a lot to avoid "watery noise reduction," and as a result, it sharpened a lot of my words in a less than appealing manner.

Having broken in the XLR for the past 4 months, I no longer have that issue, because I only need to amplify the recording maybe once to apply noise reduction, and that's not enough to sharpen lines the way I'd normally have to.

[redBadger]

If you're having problems with sibilance or plosives you're mic position isn't correct. How are you positioning it?

[Doakes]

[QUOTE=redBadger;47699707]If you're having problems with sibilance or plosives you're mic position isn't correct. How are you positioning it?[/QUOTE]
It's down pointing up slightly at me. Since I'm in an apartment with horrible echo, I've got it inside a Kaotica Eyeball, and in that, I've put it in a cardboard box with Auralex Insulated Foam inside, speaking into it without my voice reflecting. Normally, I have it on a C-Stand, but until I find another place, this is how I've made do the past few months.