[QUOTE=jobizzle;43329445]No, I'm saying what I actually wrote. Respond to the argument rather than misinterpreting it and then not answering.[/QUOTE]
You couldn't even tell that BBNH Jesus was joking around with that post to me. I've been questioning your logic at every turn, eventually I have to come to the conclusion that you have none.
[QUOTE=jobizzle;43329407]I just don't understand how you can believe that without leaving the gate open for all manner of evil ideologies to justify their actions. The idea that your actions are alright so far as they do not harm anyone else seems like a pointless law if we consider human existence irrelevant as BBNH Jesus suggests.[/QUOTE]
I think this only speaks to the view that humans are base, ugly creatures without the guidance of a greater being than ourselves
basically, I think it's a totally worthless self derisive statement that makes it seem like people can't be good enough, smart enough, or by any means able to make rational decisions about themselves in a manner that builds character, without what you are calling objectively correct criteria.
[QUOTE=jobizzle;43329407]I just don't understand how you can believe that without leaving the gate open for all manner of evil ideologies to justify their actions. The idea that your actions are alright so far as they do not harm anyone else seems like a pointless law if we consider human existence irrelevant as BBNH Jesus suggests.[/QUOTE]
You believing in objective morality has nothing to do with the topic and makes your arguments look worse, not better.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43331961]I think this only speaks to the view that humans are base, ugly creatures without the guidance of a greater being than ourselves
basically, I think it's a totally worthless self derisive statement that makes it seem like people can't be good enough, smart enough, or by any means able to make rational decisions about themselves in a manner that builds character, without what you are calling objectively correct criteria.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say humans are evil by nature, but when you allow for any interpretation of morality to hold weight then you are disarming yourself against the truly nasty, power-hungry leaders who will manipulate the truth to suit their personal ends.
For all I know you don't need a god to have morality, but you need to recognise human existence as having some worth, which BBNH is unwilling to do.
funny how shark bones still didn't address the argument and ironically didn't notice that I was joking around myself.
[editline]28th December 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Talishmar;43333301]You believing in objective morality has nothing to do with the topic and makes your arguments look worse, not better.[/QUOTE]
On the contrary this is all about the objective versus the subjective. The main defence of pornography is 'don't like it don't do it' in this thread. As though morality exists in a vacuum affecting only the persons immediately involved.
[QUOTE=jobizzle;43334468]I didn't say humans are evil by nature, but when you allow for any interpretation of morality to hold weight then you are disarming yourself against the truly nasty, power-hungry leaders who will manipulate the truth to suit their personal ends.[/QUOTE]
Funny how you can't see that the nasty, power-hungry leaders you speak of are CHRISTIAN PRIESTS.
[QUOTE=jobizzle;43334468]I didn't say humans are evil by nature, but when you allow for any interpretation of morality to hold weight then you are disarming yourself against the truly nasty, power-hungry leaders who will manipulate the truth to suit their personal ends.
For all I know you don't need a god to have morality, but you need to recognise human existence as having some worth, which BBNH is unwilling to do.
funny how shark bones still didn't address the argument and ironically didn't notice that I was joking around myself.
[editline]28th December 2013[/editline]
On the contrary this is all about the objective versus the subjective. The main defence of pornography is 'don't like it don't do it' in this thread. As though morality exists in a vacuum affecting only the persons immediately involved.[/QUOTE]
"For any interpretation of morality to hold weight"
You know, you can just say things in an easier, simpler manner, and no one will think less of you for it. The simple fact is, someone watching porn affects no one but themselves. Someone enjoying and indulging in such things affects no one but themselves. For some weird reason you seem to sound like an arbiter of justice like you can actually divine the difference between right and wrong on such a minute scale.
Who does porn harm? Women? How does it harm them unilaterally? It gives women the chance to have sex and engage in such acts in a safe manner, it allows them to really have control over their OWN bodies. Does it harm the women we date? I certainly can't say that 4 years with the same woman has been endangered by porn for even one second. When you act like the basis of morality starts with not letting people have sex and ends with not letting them be subjugated by rulers, you've already set a criteria that has no logic to it.
Recognizing peoples worth is not a christian trait and doesn't come from anyone belief system and I'm largely offended christians always try and take the high road about morality and human worth but never do it in a manner of humility.
[QUOTE=Shark Bones;43336260]Funny how you can't see that the nasty, power-hungry leaders you speak of are CHRISTIAN PRIESTS.[/QUOTE]
What kind of power does the average christian priest have? Next to none. There's a reason for their vows of poverty and chastity, in part to ensure they don't go in for greed and corruption.
[editline]28th December 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43336441]"For any interpretation of morality to hold weight"
You know, you can just say things in an easier, simpler manner, and no one will think less of you for it. The simple fact is, someone watching porn affects no one but themselves. Someone enjoying and indulging in such things affects no one but themselves. For some weird reason you seem to sound like an arbiter of justice like you can actually divine the difference between right and wrong on such a minute scale.
Who does porn harm? Women? How does it harm them unilaterally? It gives women the chance to have sex and engage in such acts in a safe manner, it allows them to really have control over their OWN bodies. Does it harm the women we date? I certainly can't say that 4 years with the same woman has been endangered by porn for even one second. When you act like the basis of morality starts with not letting people have sex and ends with not letting them be subjugated by rulers, you've already set a criteria that has no logic to it.
Recognizing peoples worth is not a christian trait and doesn't come from anyone belief system and I'm largely offended christians always try and take the high road about morality and human worth but never do it in a manner of humility.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I'm a total scatterbrain who tends to get off track with his thoughts, but don't hold that against my argument.
I think everyone has responsibilities to their families and to the people they love, if you've ever watched louis theroux's documentary on the porn industry you'll know that relationships can suffer because of it. One man clearly felt miserable and distressed because of what his girlfriend had gotten into, since he loved her and had to see her going to have sex with other men frequently. How are people involved in porn meant to be able to experience genuine intimate relationships when they are faced with bland, dry sex every day.
Freedom over their own bodies is such a feeble retort, if I had a son I suppose he would be free to take illegal drugs and self harm, but such things certainly affect more people than just him. No one is truly free since we all are responsible for our actions.
[QUOTE=jobizzle;43338114]What kind of power does the average christian priest have? Next to none. There's a reason for their vows of poverty and chastity, in part to ensure they don't go in for greed and corruption.
[editline]28th December 2013[/editline]
Sorry, I'm a total scatterbrain who tends to get off track with his thoughts, but don't hold that against my argument.
I think everyone has responsibilities to their families and to the people they love, if you've ever watched louis theroux's documentary on the porn industry you'll know that relationships can suffer because of it. One man clearly felt miserable and distressed because of what his girlfriend had gotten into, since he loved her and had to see her going to have sex with other men frequently. How are people involved in porn meant to be able to experience genuine intimate relationships when they are faced with bland, dry sex every day.
Freedom over their own bodies is such a feeble retort, if I had a son I suppose he would be free to take illegal drugs and self harm, but such things certainly affect more people than just him. No one is truly free since we all are responsible for our actions.[/QUOTE]
Well first thing, if you can't handle dating a woman whose JOB it is to fuck other guys, you shouldn't date a porn star.
Second, a lot of porn stars say that their job is FUN, so "bland, dry sex" certainly doesn't apply.
Third, some people DON'T WANT to be in an intimate relationship.
Fourth, having sex is INCREDIBLY DIFFERENT from taking drugs. Sex hurts NOBODY.
ALL CAPS FOR EMPHASIS!
One could argue that drugs don't hurt any unwilling person, either. It's their life, it's their body. If they want to fuck themselves up, let them. It likely removes them from the gene pool, so I'm all for it.
[QUOTE='[BBNH] Jesus;43340099']One could argue that drugs don't hurt any unwilling person, either. It's their life, it's their body. If they want to fuck themselves up, let them. It likely removes them from the gene pool, so I'm all for it.[/QUOTE]
That's... extremely harsh.
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;43340132]That's... extremely harsh.[/QUOTE]
The world is harsh. Life is a bitch. If they want to die happy, who am I to stop them? Honestly, that's how I want to die when I'm old. Inject a boatload of LSD and die trippin balls happy. Who are you or anyone else to judge me for that or stop me?
[QUOTE=jobizzle;43338114]What kind of power does the average christian priest have? Next to none. There's a reason for their vows of poverty and chastity, in part to ensure they don't go in for greed and corruption.
[editline]28th December 2013[/editline]
Sorry, I'm a total scatterbrain who tends to get off track with his thoughts, but don't hold that against my argument.
I think everyone has responsibilities to their families and to the people they love, if you've ever watched louis theroux's documentary on the porn industry you'll know that relationships can suffer because of it. One man clearly felt miserable and distressed because of what his girlfriend had gotten into, since he loved her and had to see her going to have sex with other men frequently. How are people involved in porn meant to be able to experience genuine intimate relationships when they are faced with bland, dry sex every day.
Freedom over their own bodies is such a feeble retort, if I had a son I suppose he would be free to take illegal drugs and self harm, but such things certainly affect more people than just him. No one is truly free since we all are responsible for our actions.[/QUOTE]
How you emotionally feel about something is not someone else concern frankly. If they want to do drugs or have sex, why should you simply being offended that this is something they want stop them from doing it?
Feeble retort? No, a feeble retort would be something along the lines of moral objectivism being taken seriously based on absolutely nothing besides personal moral outrage of some people like you.
Yeah, well I've seen that, and others. It makes it blatantly clear that if you want that life, it's something you can handle, it's okay and it's not your place to judge it.
People in porn do and often have been noted as having intimate relationships with their loved ones. I don't see how porn takes this away from someone. You have this strange and frankly old fashioned and bad notion that two people in love own each others bodies. They do not. I also don't know where you got bland dry sex from besides what you personally think it would be.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43340818]How you emotionally feel about something is not someone else concern frankly. If they want to do drugs or have sex, why should you simply being offended that this is something they want stop them from doing it?
Feeble retort? No, a feeble retort would be something along the lines of moral objectivism being taken seriously based on absolutely nothing besides personal moral outrage of some people like you.
Yeah, well I've seen that, and others. It makes it blatantly clear that if you want that life, it's something you can handle, it's okay and it's not your place to judge it.
People in porn do and often have been noted as having intimate relationships with their loved ones. I don't see how porn takes this away from someone. You have this strange and frankly old fashioned and bad notion that two people in love own each others bodies. They do not. I also don't know where you got bland dry sex from besides what you personally think it would be.[/QUOTE]
I don't see how sex for a pornstar in their private life is anything more than a busman's holiday.
Its not about me personally, but if my sister or daughter were to get into the industry it certainly would, because human relationships matter. I don't want to live in the selfish, individualistic society which many people here envision, where the only responsibility is to have a good time. This approval of pornography has already resulted in children as young as 12 or 13 being exposed to it and other sources of instant gratification in their formative years, and no doubt will grow up with warped understandings of human relationships and sex. Its difficult to comment on the effect porn has long term because in terms of being such a massive worldwide industry its still relatively new, and only in our lifetime will we see the consequences.
To say something is wrong and to judge or condemn people involved are two different things. I'm certain many individuals caught up in the porn industry are victims themselves of the brainwashing notion that having boundaries and principles makes them 'old fashioned'. 'You're entitled to dislike porn, but it makes you a prude and old fashioned' seems to be the standard response from your side, which is more of a character judgement than saying porn itself is bad for people.
Porn takes away the intimate relationship by devaluing sex, to the point where these days it seems the only negative side to sex people can imagine is that it sometimes produces babies.
Its not about owning the other persons body, its about being faithful. I can't see how being cuckolded can ever be a good thing.
It doesn't matter how you see sex in a pornstar's life because it's not YOUR life!
Your sister and your daughter both owe you nothing in terms of choice of profession. Your relationship with them, while being deep and close and important, is STILL not as important as their ability to make choices in their own lives without you butting in to judge them and chastise them.
Saying something is wrong and judging that something are exactly the same thing. You judge that something. You make a value judgment to decide whether it's right or wrong. You ARE judgmental.
Porn might take away intimacy for YOU, but that doesn't mean it takes away intimacy for anyone else. For me? No. For my significant other? No. It actually helps us become more intimate, not that it's any of your damn business. Not being faithful? What a fucking joke of an argument.
Stop making ignorant blanket statements based on your perverse religion's push to control other people's lives. Plain and simple, butt out.
You can't judge porn stars. Seriously. They're probably happier than you are, meaning they're doing life a lot better.
You're just jealous that you don't have to opportunity to pop your cooch for some cash.
[QUOTE=jobizzle;43344417]I don't see how sex for a pornstar in their private life is anything more than a busman's holiday.[/QUOTE]
How or why do you think this? Sex, even if done a lot, is very rarely mechanical. Sex in the films is more mechanical than what they do in their real lives. Having worked as a cameraman in porn briefly is enough for me to know this.
[QUOTE]Its not about me personally, but if my sister or daughter were to get into the industry it certainly would, because human relationships matter. I don't want to live in the selfish, individualistic society which many people here envision, where the only responsibility is to have a good time. This approval of pornography has already resulted in children as young as 12 or 13 being exposed to it and other sources of instant gratification in their formative years, and no doubt will grow up with warped understandings of human relationships and sex. Its difficult to comment on the effect porn has long term because in terms of being such a massive worldwide industry its still relatively new, and only in our lifetime will we see the consequences. [/QUOTE]
How you feel about what other people should be doing is totally and utterly irrelevant. You do not have any ability to say "hey, you guys gotta be like this". You are judging people very harshly.
[QUOTE]To say something is wrong and to judge or condemn people involved are two different things. I'm certain many individuals caught up in the porn industry are victims themselves of the brainwashing notion that having boundaries and principles makes them 'old fashioned'. 'You're entitled to dislike porn, but it makes you a prude and old fashioned' seems to be the standard response from your side, which is more of a character judgement than saying porn itself is bad for people. [/QUOTE]
No not really. You're telling someone it's bad, you're judging them for doing it. If you're trying to say it's bad for people, you better do something to show that besides your own moral outrage.
[QUOTE]Porn takes away the intimate relationship by devaluing sex, to the point where these days it seems the only negative side to sex people can imagine is that it sometimes produces babies. [/QUOTE]
No it does not. My long term girlfriend and I enjoy porn together. We enjoy watching it, we enjoy each other. This certainly doesn't seem like we're both out just fucking everyone we can touch. Because porn doesn't do that to people.
[QUOTE]Its not about owning the other persons body, its about being faithful. I can't see how being cuckolded can ever be a good thing.[/QUOTE]
How does porn stop you from being faithful? How does porn create cheaters? Are you sure those people weren't cheaters in the first place? Cause it seems like your argument is based entirely on your moral outrage and nothing else.
Jobizzle, you're full of it. Stop.
Nobody here appreciates you attempting to be a moral crusader.
[QUOTE=jobizzle;43344417]
Porn takes away the intimate relationship by devaluing sex, to the point where these days it seems the only negative side to sex people can imagine is that it sometimes produces babies. [/QUOTE]
Porn relieves people of their sexual tension sometimes so they don't do irrational things.
[QUOTE=MaddaCheeb;43386817]Porn relieves people of their sexual tension sometimes, so that worst-case scenario some sex-deprived/pressured fiend doesn't go out and rape somebody.[/QUOTE]
Rape isn't about sexual release or sexual tension. It's a crime of power. You were on the right track until you threw it all away with the rape comment.
[QUOTE='[BBNH] Jesus;43388698']Rape isn't about sexual release or sexual tension. It's a crime of power. You were on the right track until you threw it all away with the rape comment.[/QUOTE]
Possibly so, it's a logical fallacy but I couldn't put anything else in there that I could think of. I'll edit it out
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