• The argument AGAINST pornography
    289 replies, posted
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;38633968]Have to disagree here. I'd say taking advantage of the fact that a person has money pressures to make them do something they'd normally be uncomfortable doing, to the extent of something like having sex on camera for money, is exploitation. Honestly, I think we like to draw a neat little line between porn and prostitution but they're honestly incredibly similar. The only really major difference is whether or not the end consumer is the one a girl is having sex with.[/QUOTE] Here we're under the assumption that the actor/actress doesn't enjoy it. There are many who would hate to study your course, but I imagine you quite enjoy it. Achieving a measure of fame and sexual satisfaction may be very rewarding for some. This may be of interest to the thread: [url]http://www.cus.org/connect/debates/2011/this-house-believes-pornography-does-a-good-public-service[/url] [editline]29th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;38591689]PORN SUPPORTS “RAPE CULTURE” The physical, emotional, and psychological damage to the women and children in porn is heartbreaking, but equally insidious is porn’s effect on men and the culture by normalizing the degradation and dehumanization of women. Jensen explains, “As pornography has become more acceptable, both legally and culturally, the level of brutality toward, and degradation of, women has intensified.” The prevalence of porn means that people are becoming desensitized to it, and are seeking out ever harsher, more violent, and degrading images. Even the porn industry is shocked by how much violence the fans want. As one pornography director put it, “People just want it harder, harder, and harder . . . what are you gonna do next?” Robin Morgan’s phrase “Pornography is the theory, rape is the practice” captures the link between the production and consumption of pornography and violence against women and children. The point is not that porn causes all viewers to sexually abuse others, but that it creates what some researches call “rape culture” by normalizing, legitimizing, and condoning violence against women and children. [/QUOTE] [url]http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/2010to2014/2010-porn-in-czech-republic.html[/url] From the introduction: [quote=M. Diamond, E. Jozifkova, P. Weiss] A more fruitful method, started by the Danish researcher Kutchinsky, was to see what actually happened in those countries that transitioned from having a strict ban on SEM availability to a situation where the material was decriminalized. Using data gathered from various governmental records, Kutchinsky (1991) compared the relevant increase in available SEM following the liberalization of antipornography laws in Denmark, Sweden, West Germany, and the U.S. with both pre- and post- liberalization data regarding sex crimes reported in these countries. His research found that, in the countries studied, the rates of rape, sexual assault, and other sex crimes either decreased or essentially remained stable following the ready availability of erotic materials of all sorts. In none did sex crimes of any type increase. [/quote] The same effect was reported in the Czech republic.
I'm one to typically go against the complete casualization of sex, though considering pornography probably aids potential unfaithful people with being fidelitous, I'd say it has a positive effect upon people. That point can be changed a bit in any direction to say that it is a preventative measure so that people [b]don't[/b] have to partake in something they consider arousing bit, in of itself, is dangerous or damaging to others. I don't have any opinion either way on the other consequences that it may have with the actors (excluding child pornography, which is unacceptable) and all, as long as it does support fidelity and gives people a safe release in some way, I'm content with it. Better a video than an actual affair or something else that can be harmful physically or emotionally, since people are stubborn and still impulse driven enough that they'll get it one way or another.
[QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;38618914]You're all fucking morons. Use your brain. I wont waste my time spelling out each word for people who apparently can't read. Go to college, get an education. Then come back. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This isn't how you debate" - Asaratha))[/highlight][/QUOTE] You haven't got so much as a source for anything minus practically copypasting some random guys argument over.
[QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;38618914]You're all fucking morons. Use your brain. I wont waste my time spelling out each word for people who apparently can't read. Go to college, get an education. Then come back. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This isn't how you debate" - Asaratha))[/highlight][/QUOTE] a debate typically requires two participants, you cant just assert your point and then insult anyone who disagrees
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU[/media] [editline]1st December 2012[/editline] For the record, any opportunity I can get to post this, I take. Because it's super informative.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38634409]By that definition, any occupation can be said to be exploitation simply because the worker is doing it because they need money instead of because they want to.[/QUOTE] This is actually argued by some people (any occupation is exploitation of the worker).
[QUOTE=Uber|nooB;38593377]men are not the only consumers of pornography[/QUOTE] Exactly; my cat uses it too.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38667528]This is actually argued by some people (any occupation is exploitation of the worker).[/QUOTE] It's a dumb argument, because how else will the world run? The only solution I can think of is a complete (real) communist world society, which is a joke to even half imagine trying to happen. People need to work to make money and the governments needs people to make money to get taxes.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38669209]It's a dumb argument, because how else will the world run?[/QUOTE] Not really, saying that "How else will the world work?" still doesn't discount that something is exploitation. I could argue for slavery by saying "How else will the cotton be picked", but it would still be exploitation. [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38669209]The only solution I can think of is a complete (real) communist world society, which is a joke to even half imagine trying to happen. People need to work to make money and the governments needs people to make money to get taxes.[/QUOTE] Well people do need to work to make money, although in the modern era people are working much less than their ancestors did (whilst producing much more). Something rather odd is going to happen once permanent unemployment gets really huge.
i think the OP is squed in the view that porn exists soley for males enjoyment and women's objectification, the national survey of sexual health and behavior, which replaced the one done in the late 50s which has still been viewed as "accurate" reports that the porn viewing between men and women are about equal now, as well as masturbation between teenage boys and girls, a radical difference from the 1950s one, what i'm saying is both girls and boys are looking at porn and the survey backs it up, so if you argue that women are objectified by porn, you have to agree that men are also being objectified by porn too, and i doubt now that the largest consumer of porn is 12-17 year old boys because while they may have larger numbers of internet users, that doesn't take into account that there ARE other mediums of porn than the internet, they haven't dissappered since the internet, also have you ever had to do a virus scan on a 50+ year old man's computer, i can garentee theres more porn on that than the average 12-17 year old's ipad
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38669600]Not really, saying that "How else will the world work?" still doesn't discount that something is exploitation. I could argue for slavery by saying "How else will the cotton be picked", but it would still be exploitation. [/QUOTE] I disagree, but I digress for the sake of staying on topic. As for pornography, I have a feeling the OP isn't going to return for rebukes on his (her?) points, which is frustrating because I'd like to see someone actually defend the OP's positions.
[QUOTE=rrunyan;38667198][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU[/media] [editline]1st December 2012[/editline] For the record, any opportunity I can get to post this, I take. Because it's super informative.[/QUOTE] Except not to be insulting, but you, like 1000s of others who have watched this video have jumped the gun and completely missed the point the presentation is addressing: porn [B]ADDICTION[/B]. Not porn in and of itself.
Why do I get the feeling that the "I feel like the next sir isaac newton" thing was supposed to be a joke :v:
without porn little baby boys would be horny all the time and ejaculate in their eyes and every1 elses eyeballs???? you can't say NO to porn it keeps the horny little people at bay [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating" - MaxOfS2D))[/highlight]
I think moon is gone and isn't coming back...
[QUOTE=Sableye;38673196]i think the OP is squed in the view that porn exists soley for males enjoyment and women's objectification, the national survey of sexual health and behavior, which replaced the one done in the late 50s which has still been viewed as "accurate" reports that the porn viewing between men and women are about equal now, as well as masturbation between teenage boys and girls, a radical difference from the 1950s one, what i'm saying is both girls and boys are looking at porn and the survey backs it up, so if you argue that women are objectified by porn, you have to agree that men are also being objectified by porn too, and i doubt now that the largest consumer of porn is 12-17 year old boys because while they may have larger numbers of internet users, that doesn't take into account that there ARE other mediums of porn than the internet, they haven't dissappered since the internet, also have you ever had to do a virus scan on a 50+ year old man's computer, i can garentee theres more porn on that than the average 12-17 year old's ipad[/QUOTE] My grandfather actually has a few VHS tapes of "old people" porn. They're laying casually ontop of his VHS machine. My family's always been really lax when it comes to porn though, my mother also has a few porn mags, so saying porn is a bad thing is hilarious. It's only bad when [B]ACTUAL[/B] exploitation happens, and that's why it needs proper regulation, not outright banning it.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38673448]I disagree, but I digress for the sake of staying on topic. As for pornography, I have a feeling the OP isn't going to return for rebukes on his (her?) points, which is frustrating because I'd like to see someone actually defend the OP's positions.[/QUOTE] I actually got really excited when I first saw this thread because this would have been an interesting debate. Does this thread really need to continue? because nobody seems to want to argue for the evil of porn.
Throughout reading the OP I saw many times that studies "showed" that women are objectified through pornography, and it makes it seem socially acceptable. I think that in the early 60's and 50's women were more objectified than they are even today. Women have developed beyond being a stool for men, due to the rise of feminism and things of a similar nature. Women use porn, despite the fact that it isn't commonly noticed. I watch pornography, but would never sexually abuse a child or partner. Note, I favor things like BDSM and other types of more violent sexual acts. Human trafficking and forced prostitution will always exist because people just simply love to have sex. As it's been stated previously, saying that porn causes people to rape people is like saying it's the gun's fault, not the shooter's.
Are you against S&M OP? Is it because it doesn't prescribe to your normative model of how "relationships" should play out? When we see porn, you apparently like to think that the woman subject is a cardboard cut-out and representative of all womanhood. Why can't the actress just be a particular gender identity? Example: me and my girlfriend have a pretty, by OP's standards, raunchy sexual relationship, she likes being submissive to me. But outside of the bedroom, I like to think we have a very egalitarian relationship, and I am very much in love with her. Some people just have very specific aesthetic, in the context of sexual contact, relationships. Stop trying to play the part of the ear and quit psychoanalyzing me.
To me it seems OP's arguments was fueled by some angry feminazi bullshit, backed up by thin air. Honestly porn is not bad, and viewing it should be treated like a video game or any other fiction like a movie. It is fictional, and made for your enjoyment only. Video games are again made for your enjoyment and are fictional.
[quote]PORN SUPPORTS “RAPE CULTURE” The physical, emotional, and psychological damage to the women and children in porn is heartbreaking, but equally insidious is porn’s effect on men and the culture by normalizing the degradation and dehumanization of women. Jensen explains, “As pornography has become more acceptable, both legally and culturally, the level of brutality toward, and degradation of, women has intensified.” The prevalence of porn means that people are becoming desensitized to it, and are seeking out ever harsher, more violent, and degrading images. Even the porn industry is shocked by how much violence the fans want. As one pornography director put it, “People just want it harder, harder, and harder . . . what are you gonna do next?” Robin Morgan’s phrase “Pornography is the theory, rape is the practice” captures the link between the production and consumption of pornography and violence against women and children. The point is not that porn causes all viewers to sexually abuse others, but that it creates what some researches call “rape culture” by normalizing, legitimizing, and condoning violence against women and children.[/quote] Rape culture? If I remember correctly rape goes down the more porn is being legalized. [url=http://www.springer.com/about+springer/media/springer+select?SGWID=0-11001-6-1042321-0]In Denmark, Japan, and Czech Republic the temporary legalization of child porn decreased the amount of child rape victims.[/url] The exact opposite of what whoever provided you with that information said.
In Rotterdam (the Netherlands) the goverment actually promoted porn use of students at low lvl "problem schools" to lower the amount of teenage pregnancy's and rape. They promoted fapping once a day. In my vieuw this is bad because fapping to porn every day can cause problems and addiction.
Porn & Masturbation are enjoyed as a rebellious act by teens and it carries on into adulthood because it is taboo. This taboo is mainly prevalent in the west because prior to the early renaissance period, in which provençal troubadour cults arose (with the idea of the idealization of a Women, as a revered, inspiring goddess, as witnessed in Arthurian legend, Dante's Beatrice, etc) - sexual relations under 'christian supervision' were solely for the purpose of creating children. It is also important to note that during the birth and development of Christianity, marriage was a societal agreement arranged by one's parents and used to unite families, clans - and that you kept multiple wives or concubines if you could afford it. It was Saint Augustine who decided that multiple wives was incorrect under God due to it not being so in the garden of Eden, where sexual interaction was not for pleasure, not to bring one closer to each other (as explored in the idea of love) - but solely for creating children. Regardless, the renaissance had a huge influence on the western world and because of this, modern day Christianity has weirdly adopted both the viewpoint that the married state is the 'correct under god' way that people can engage in sexual relations - and secondly that the girl you marry should be the one you have fallen in love with. Pretty backward, contradictory, and hugely conflicting, but yeah, that's where the taboo about porn and masturbation come from. I think before the idea of the pursuit of physical pleasure being a 'bad thing under god' people used to walk down the street beating their meat and no-one gave a fuck.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;38700384] I think before the idea of the pursuit of physical pleasure being a 'bad thing under god' people used to walk down the street beating their meat and no-one gave a fuck.[/QUOTE] Just how before the ten commandments people ran around having sex with each others wives and killing and stealing from each other all the time. Oh wait.
[QUOTE=Mrs. Moon;38591689]There is a myth that porn is harmless. “It’s just a few consenting adults, doing what they want with their own bodies,” the thinking goes. Especially in a community like this people will shrug off the worst things so long as they are fooled at face value that "It doesn't look as bad as it really is so it's okay" But this simply isn’t true. In reality, pornography is deeply involved in the exploitation of women and children as well as being destructive to its consumers. Porn is much more than an individual decision—it is part of a system that preys on women and children, and its viewers are participating in, contributing to, and being shaped by that destructive, enslaving system. PORN FUELS THE SEX TRADE Human trafficking is a form of modern-day slavery, and it is the fastest-growing criminal industry in the world. Sex trafficking is one of the most profitable forms of trafficking and involves many kinds of sexual exploitation, such as prostitution, pornography, bride trafficking, and the commercial sexual abuse of children. According to the United Nations, sex trafficking brings in an estimated $32 billion a year worldwide. In the U.S., sex trafficking brings in $9.5 billion annually. The primary way porn fuels the sex trade is by building the demand. The sex trade consists of supply and demand. The supply consists of women and children who are either forced into exploitation at home or lured away from their homes with promises of jobs, travel, and a better life. The average age of girls who enter into street prostitution is between 12 and 14 years old, and even younger in some developing countries. Traffickers coerce women and children to enter the commercial sex industry through a variety of recruitment techniques in strip clubs, street-based prostitution, and escort services. Thousands of children and women are victimized in this way every year. The trafficking industry would not exist without demand. According to researcher Andrea Bertone,([url]http://digilib.bc.edu/reserves/sw826/bertone826.pdf[/url]) the demand consists of men who feed a “patriarchal world system” that preys on women and children. PORN SHAPES SEXUAL DESIRES Pornography shapes the appetites of men, women, and children to accept and even enjoy the exploitation of women. As Robert Jensen writes: ([url]http://new.vawnet.org/Assoc_Files_VAWnet/AR_PornAndSV.pdf[/url]) There are a few basic themes in pornography: 1) All women at all times want sex from all men; 2) women enjoy all the sexual acts that men perform or demand, and; 3) any woman who does not at first realize this can be easily turned with a little force. It is important to note that porn is not just a “men’s issue,” as 28 percent of people admitting internet sexual addiction are women. Approximately 9 out of 10 children between the ages of 8 and 16 have viewed pornography on the Internet. The average age of first Internet exposure to pornography is 11 years old and in most cases it is unintentional. The largest consumer of Internet pornography is 12- to 17-year-old boys. Porn teaches its consumers that women exist for the pleasure of men and that their purpose is to be degraded and dehumanized for men’s excitement—and that they like it, even if they pretend not to. But this is part of the lie of pornography: many women in porn are there against their will and are being exploited. According to Jensen, “There is evidence that force and coercion are sometimes used to secure women’s participation . . . that psychological and physical damage is common and that heavy alcohol and drug use are routine.” PORN EXPLOITS CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE VICTIMS Mary Anne Layden,([url]http://www.med.upenn.edu/cct/faculty_layden.html[/url]) a psychotherapist and Director of the Center for Cognitive Therapy at the University of Pennsylvania, reports that most women involved in the sex industry are adult survivors of sexual abuse. Research indicates that the number is between 60 to 80 percent. Simply put, most women in the porn industry are adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse, and porn perpetuates their exploitation. Additionally, 20 percent of all Internet pornography involves children. PORN SUPPORTS “RAPE CULTURE” The physical, emotional, and psychological damage to the women and children in porn is heartbreaking, but equally insidious is porn’s effect on men and the culture by normalizing the degradation and dehumanization of women. Jensen explains, “As pornography has become more acceptable, both legally and culturally, the level of brutality toward, and degradation of, women has intensified.” The prevalence of porn means that people are becoming desensitized to it, and are seeking out ever harsher, more violent, and degrading images. Even the porn industry is shocked by how much violence the fans want. As one pornography director put it, “People just want it harder, harder, and harder . . . what are you gonna do next?” Robin Morgan’s phrase “Pornography is the theory, rape is the practice” captures the link between the production and consumption of pornography and violence against women and children. The point is not that porn causes all viewers to sexually abuse others, but that it creates what some researches call “rape culture” by normalizing, legitimizing, and condoning violence against women and children. PORN HIJACKS CHILDREN’S SEXUALITY Gail Dines, author of Pornland: How Porn Has Hi-Jacked Our Sexuality , explains the implications of porn: “We are now bringing up a generation of boys on cruel, violent porn. … Given what we know about how images affect people, this is going to have a profound influence on their sexuality, behavior and attitudes towards women.” Mary Anne Layden argues: “There is evidence that the prevalence of pornography in the lives of many children and adolescents is far more significant than most adults realize, that pornography is deforming the healthy sexual development of these young viewers, and that it is used to exploit children and adolescents.” PORN LIMITS MEN While porn is not just a “men’s issue,” it remains pervasively a male problem. William Struthers, a bio-psychologist, explains the effects on men: “Men seem to be wired in such a way that pornography hijacks the proper functioning of their brains and has a long-lasting effect on their thoughts and lives.” Porn limits male self-expression and has proven to be psychologically detrimental to some viewers. Frequent pornographic stimulus changes the neurological makeup in the brain—it actually rewires the viewer’s brain. Everyone involved in the supply chain, from production to consumption, is participating in the economic juggernaut that is the porn industry, whether they realize it or not. And many of them are unaware of the harm being done to themselves and others. This industry fuels the global sex trade, builds the demand for exploitation, severely distorts sexuality, exploits abuse victims, and normalizes the degradation of women and children. That’s why porn is much more than a private, individual decision[/QUOTE] You are an ass. You may think this is true because you are deluded. Chances are you are a catholic, christian, or some other deluded follower of a religion that believes nothing but the word off your religion. You make assumptions with false proof. You make assumptions with no proof. GTFO [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is NOT debating" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
-snip misread-
you say im a part of it, but i don't watch porn, and i understand things the way they are, not "women should want my dick"
The OP is mostly right. Porn is kind of related to cigarettes. The tobacco companies will market their product to children, I think we all know this. Porn is also addicting, like cigarettes. Both are looked at as an unsightly habit. And if you care about (christian) morals, porn is worse on your morals than smoking. In all, (coming from a person who has watched porn) it's degrading and overall futile. Get a girlfriend!
I don't know, smoking does actual harm and shortens your lifespan, whereas watching two guys going at it helps facilitate arousal and masturbation. Though the part where looking at naked people is less moral than harming your body is seriously one of the most hilarious things I have ever heard.
[QUOTE=maximizer39v2;38780829]The OP is mostly right. Porn is kind of related to cigarettes. The tobacco companies will market their product to children, I think we all know this. Porn is also addicting, like cigarettes. Both are looked at as an unsightly habit. And if you care about (christian) morals, porn is worse on your morals than smoking. In all, (coming from a person who has watched porn) it's degrading and overall futile. Get a girlfriend![/QUOTE] Porn isn't addictive, at least in my experience. As far as an issues with porn go, I'd much rather watch amateur stuff than studio porn because it's more real and the chance of the woman being abused off-camera is a lot lower. Also you can't just say 'get a girlfriend' because that's a lot easier said than done.
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