I'm not stupid enough to pretend to know why we are on this planet.
You shouldn't be, either.
[QUOTE=Shark Bones;43274314]I find that insulting.
Christianity produced:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_United_States[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_klux_klan[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_baptist_church[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_crusades[/url]
Christianity has resulted in some of the most IDIOTIC thinking of the past 2000 years. The fact that you can even attempt to take pride in what your horrid religion has done to the world makes me literally want to vomit. You are evil and arrogant.[/QUOTE]
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater ;)
[QUOTE=jobizzle;43274246]
I'm sure your 15 year old self knows better than anyone with any religious conviction... [/quote]
I went through seminary as an adult.
What now?
[quote]Its a philosophical question, why is there something rather than nothing? Atheists will shy away from the question and always come up with some materialistic solution, but even they can't prove the creation of matter from nothing, or an eternal universe that has always been.[/QUOTE]
The why doesn't matter because it is a subjective question. The universe does not owe you an answer to the why question because they why question does not matter.
[video=youtube;LSZ_fsG5uMg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSZ_fsG5uMg[/video]
[editline]22nd December 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=jobizzle;43274339]Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater ;)[/QUOTE]
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Argue intellectually or GTFO.
[QUOTE='[BBNH] Jesus;43274329']Why does the universe exist? Meaning is 100% subjective and lends no credence to the supernatural. Meaning is what each and every one of us make it, not what someone else tells us it is.
You have made a monumental logical fallacy.
Man kind has been on the planet at least 150,000 years. It is arrogant to believe that the bronze age myths that have only been around 2000 years that have ZERO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THEM are somehow more true than any other theistic bullshit that other cultures created.
I am completely willing to bend. You are not. I am totally willing to give in to your religion should you actually successfully provide evidence.
See, this is the difference between intelligent atheists and fucking moron religiotards. The religious look for evidence to support their supernatural claim. When they find none, the make shit up and claim it to be fact. When someone who takes the scientific approach finds evidence, they draw a conclusion from the evidence. When more evidence is found, the conclusion is reconsidered to include all of the evidence. If the new evidence provides proof that the original conclusion was wrong, we are not so arrogant that we cling to the previous conclusion. We admit "we were wrong, and here's why."
If only arrogance and religion did not go hand in hand, this religious problem would be solved in a heart beat.[/QUOTE]
If only atheists weren't so self righteous! You act like such martyrs!
[QUOTE=jobizzle;43274358]If only atheists weren't so self righteous! You act like such martyrs![/QUOTE]
Says the Christian who seems to think he's being attacked because people are sick of his logical fallacies.
[QUOTE=jobizzle;43274358]If only atheists weren't so self righteous! You act like such martyrs![/QUOTE]
Here you are, avoiding the questions we've posed. You are so intellectually dishonest that it's SICKENING.
[editline]22nd December 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Shark Bones;43274367]Says the Christian who seems to think he's being attacked because people are sick of his logical fallacies.[/QUOTE]
Zing!
[QUOTE=Shark Bones;43274367]Says the Christian who seems to think he's being attacked because people are sick of his logical fallacies.[/QUOTE]
When did I say I was being attacked?
[editline]22nd December 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE='[BBNH] Jesus;43274370']Here you are, avoiding the questions we've posed. You are so intellectually dishonest that it's SICKENING.
[editline]22nd December 2013[/editline]
Zing![/QUOTE]
sorry, repost the question I have a poor memory.
[QUOTE=jobizzle;43274387]sorry, repost the question I have a poor memory.[/QUOTE]
Well good thing for you that forums are written and you can scroll up and read.
I know you won't, though. You're just as big of a lying charlatan as any other Christian who came before you. They play word games and dodge the challenges posed to them and I have no doubt that you will prove me RIGHT by continuing this conversation doing just that instead of scrolling up and addressing the matters at hand.
Deflect! Deflect! Deflect!
Why should anybody believe you?
You don't know what happens to you when you die.
You don't know if Hell exists, you don't know if Heaven exists, you don't know if God exists.
Why focus on things you couldn't possibly have any knowledge of when we could put effort into making our planet a better place to live for all of us?
I thought this was a discussion about Pornography, not religion. Let's move it back there by saying that using religion as an excuse to ban pornography is invalid because most first world governments are secular, and believe in separation between church and state. Therefore, any religious reason to ban pornography is invalid.
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;43274416]I thought this was a discussion about Pornography, not religion. Let's move it back there by saying that using religion as an excuse to ban pornography is invalid because most first world governments are secular, and believe in separation between church and state. Therefore, any religious reason to ban pornography is invalid.[/QUOTE]
I'd agree with this statement, but not because of secular governments. The US government is not secular at all and the separation of church and state, which is unique to this country, is not at all honored or respected.
Religious reason to ban pornography is invalid because the religious stop at nothing to control everyone else's lives. THAT is why a religious reason is invalid, because they won't fuck off and mind their own business.
Any religious reason to ban ANYTHING is invalid.
Gay marriage should be legal, god FUCKING dammit.
[QUOTE='[BBNH] Jesus;43274423']I'd agree with this statement, but not because of secular governments. The US government is not secular at all and the separation of church and state, which is unique to this country, is not at all honored or respected.
Religious reason to ban pornography is invalid because the religious stop at nothing to control everyone else's lives. THAT is why a religious reason is invalid, because they won't fuck off and mind their own business.[/QUOTE]
Seeing as Christianity has not been declared the "official religion" of the US, it's still technically secular. But this is neither the time nor the place to discuss this.
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;43274517]Seeing as Christianity has not been declared the "official religion" of the US, it's still technically secular. But this is neither the time nor the place to discuss this.[/QUOTE]
Then why'd you bother posting what you just posted?
[QUOTE='[BBNH] Jesus;43274530']Then why'd you bother posting what you just posted?[/QUOTE]
Because while I'm not religious, I'm willing to defend religion if someone's making unfair claims. Outright rejecting religion as being objectively bad ignores the fact that religion has actually had some beneficial effects on civilization, and without it early civilization may not have existed at all. Hell, a lot of the philosophers and scientists who provided great breakthroughs (Galileo comes to mind) were religious themselves. You don't have to be an atheist to be an intellectual, dude.
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;43274635]Because while I'm not religious, I'm willing to defend religion if someone's making unfair claims. Outright rejecting religion as being objectively bad ignores the fact that religion has actually had some beneficial effects on civilization, and without it early civilization may not have existed at all. Hell, a lot of the philosophers and scientists who provided great breakthroughs (Galileo comes to mind) were religious themselves. You don't have to be an atheist to be an intellectual, dude.[/QUOTE]
Religion isn't responsible for any beneficial anything in the history of man as much as racial empathy (race as in human race, not skin color, if anyone is that obtuse), solidarity, and REAL morals and ethics (not religious claims of a moral and ethical nature).
Early civilization existed in spite of religion, not because of it.
I thought this wasn't the place to discuss this? Why are you discussing it if you're going to shake a finger at people saying that this isn't the place to discuss it?
Galileo was not religious at all. He was put to death by the Catholic church because he opposed their view. When the Catholic church goes around telling people to claim to be Catholic or they'll kill you, some people are going to claim to be Catholic even though they're not. This is the case with Galileo and he eventually lost his life because he put his foot down and challenged the church.
Already posted this in another thread, but I believe it's valid here as well.
[video=youtube;3R1fwrvPM4w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R1fwrvPM4w[/video]
This is what I truly believe. If we can't grow up, we are going to kill ourselves.
[QUOTE='[BBNH] Jesus;43274662']Religion isn't responsible for any beneficial anything in the history of man as much as racial empathy (race as in human race, not skin color, if anyone is that obtuse), solidarity, and REAL morals and ethics (not religious claims of a moral and ethical nature).
Early civilization existed in spite of religion, not because of it.
I thought this wasn't the place to discuss this? Why are you discussing it if you're going to shake a finger at people saying that this isn't the place to discuss it?
Galileo was not religious at all. He was put to death by the Catholic church because he opposed their view. When the Catholic church goes around telling people to claim to be Catholic or they'll kill you, some people are going to claim to be Catholic even though they're not. This is the case with Galileo and he eventually lost his life because he put his foot down and challenged the church.[/QUOTE]
No, he was actually a pious catholic, and was actually considering priesthood until his father urged him to get a medical degree at the University of Pisa. Hell, he actually tried to claim that his Heleocentric theory could actually be compatible with scripture. Read his wikipedia article, dude. It's all there, along with sources.
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;43274719]No, he was actually a pious catholic, and was actually considering priesthood until his father urged him to get a medical degree at the University of Pisa. Hell, he actually tried to claim that his Heleocentric theory could actually be compatible with scripture. Read his wikipedia article, dude. It's all there, along with sources.[/QUOTE]
and yet he was murdered by the Catholic church for bringing scientific fact against the church in an age when everyone else including the Queen knew that the world was round and that the sun was the center of the solar system.
Not to mention the illegality of prostitution is what makes it such a problem in this country.
Because there's no regulation of prostitution, it allows pimps to work outside the law and provides them with the means to be such terrible woman-abusing people. People turn to prostitution for money just like people turn to gang influence for money. Making legitimate money is so hard, they have no other choice but to turn to crime.
Imagine if prostitution was legal and regulated in America like it is in many other countries? Managers would be forced to treat the women who work there right instead of like criminals who have no choice but to work there. Prostitutes would be people who legitimately want to have sex for money, because they enjoy it.
Hell, it would be regulation for legal licensed prostitutes to have medical exams and checkups to make sure they weren't passing on STD"s. Even clients would have to bring in medical forms to prove that they were clean, to protect the workers.
That sounds utterly fantastic, to me. Make sex work for those who enjoy it, so people can be happy making money doing what they love. Don't shame them and make them criminals for being happy.
[QUOTE='[BBNH] Jesus;43274752']and yet he was murdered by the Catholic church for bringing scientific fact against the church in an age when everyone else including the Queen knew that the world was round and that the sun was the center of the solar system.[/QUOTE]
He was put under house arrest, not murdered. Yeah, he was put under it for the rest of his life, but he died of natural causes while under house arrest. That's not murder. He was still a religious man and he contributed an important scientific discovery to the world. And people disagreed with him. It's not a fundamental flaw in religion that caused it, it's a purely human factor. Religion in and of itself is not inherently bad, it's the people who follow it can be bad. There are the people you hate who force their beliefs on everyone and are generally dickbags, then there are people who follow the same religion but turn out to NOT be dickbags. Hate the player, not the game.
[editline]22nd December 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Shark Bones;43274810]Not to mention the illegality of prostitution is what makes it such a problem in this country.
Because there's no regulation of prostitution, it allows pimps to work outside the law and provides them with the means to be such terrible woman-abusing people. People turn to prostitution for money just like people turn to gang influence for money. Making legitimate money is so hard, they have no other choice but to turn to crime.
Imagine if prostitution was legal and regulated in America like it is in many other countries? Managers would be forced to treat the women who work there right instead of like criminals who have no choice but to work there. Prostitutes would be people who legitimately want to have sex for money, because they enjoy it.
Hell, it would be regulation for legal licensed prostitutes to have medical exams and checkups to make sure they weren't passing on STD"s. Even clients would have to bring in medical forms to prove that they were clean, to protect the workers.
That sounds utterly fantastic, to me. Make sex work for those who enjoy it, so people can be happy making money doing what they love. Don't shame them and make them criminals for being happy.[/QUOTE]
I completely agree. I mean, look at Nevada. Prostitution is legal there, completely regulated in voluntary, and there's never been a problem.
I've talked to legal prostitutes who work outside of the Las Vegas area, and they are ECSTATIC for their line of work. They have great work ethic, they are protected by the laws and their managers, and they make a decent enough living so that they can continue to enjoy their lives.
Not to mention they don't have to deal with pimps beating the shit out of them for not making enough commission in a week.
[QUOTE=Shark Bones;43274850]I've talked to legal prostitutes who work outside of the Las Vegas area, and they are ECSTATIC for their line of work. They have great work ethic, they are protected by the laws and their managers, and they make a decent enough living so that they can continue to enjoy their lives.
Not to mention they don't have to deal with pimps beating the shit out of them for not making enough commission in a week.[/QUOTE]
And I'm willing to bet that Porn Stars would say the same thing, too. Which goes back to the original point where porn is not a morally bad thing at all.
Contrary to popular belief, there DOES exist religiously devout porn stars and prostitutes.
They simply know that there's no reason to not be happy during the life they have, because it's all we get.
[QUOTE=Shark Bones;43274427]Any religious reason to ban ANYTHING is invalid.
Gay marriage should be legal, god FUCKING dammit.[/QUOTE]
Gay marriage is such a non issue its more an attempt for governments to assert authority over the churches than anything else. In the uk only 0.5% of people are even in civil partnerships, and marriage is on the decline anyway.
[QUOTE=jobizzle;43275131]Gay marriage is such a non issue its more an attempt for governments to assert authority over the churches than anything else. In the uk only 0.5% of people are even in civil partnerships, and marriage is on the decline anyway.[/QUOTE]
Guess what? It's a huge fucking issue in America.
It's one of the biggest civil rights movements of the past two decades.
[editline]22nd December 2013[/editline]
You really have no right to say that marriage equality isn't an issue. You're not gay, you've never had to worry about people telling you that you can't be wed to the person you love.
[QUOTE=jobizzle;43275131]Gay marriage is such a non issue its more [B]an attempt for governments to assert authority over the churches[/B] than anything else. In the uk only 0.5% of people are even in civil partnerships, and marriage is on the decline anyway.[/QUOTE]
Yet another "christians are the victim" post.
[QUOTE='[BBNH] Jesus;43275223']Yet another "christians are the victim" post.[/QUOTE]
I don't claim to be a victim personally, but why else would they try to muscle their way into the church's teaching if not to assert authority? What religious people practice (without harming anybody) is their business as much as anyone else's in your ideology.
Returning to the topic at hand it seems to me that pornography is equivalent to voyeurism, and I don't know how many of you would be willing to watch a couple having sex in the same room, its only the barrier of the internet that I assume makes you comfortable with it. At least go out and have your own relationships without simulating it on a computer, at the very least it seems pathetic, even from a non-religious perspective.
[QUOTE=jobizzle;43328338]I don't claim to be a victim personally, but why else would they try to muscle their way into the church's teaching if not to assert authority? What religious people practice (without harming anybody) is their business as much as anyone else's in your ideology.[/quote]
The problem is that religion, the three main mono-theisms specifically, never ceases to judge and control and oppress the world. All three of them preach world domination through indoctrination. I would be completely content with religion if religion were kept to itself (though I would certainly not respect anyone who falls victim to this ultimate delusion).
Unfortunately, religion works its way into our laws and our lives despite many of us not wanting anything to do with it. Atheists aren't forcing our way into churches, we're forcing Christians to get the hell out of our lives, really. Religion is oppressive. We want them to stop trying to oppress us and keep their deluded fingers out of our lives.
[quote]Returning to the topic at hand it seems to me that pornography is equivalent to voyeurism, and I don't know how many of you would be willing to watch a couple having sex in the same room, its only the barrier of the internet that I assume makes you comfortable with it. At least go out and have your own relationships without simulating it on a computer, at the very least it seems pathetic, even from a non-religious perspective.[/QUOTE]
Nobody's simulating a relationship when watching porn. Just because you cannot separate the concepts of sex and relationship doesn't mean those of us who can should feel ashamed of doing so or be restricted from viewing porn in the first place.
Again, this goes right back to religious bullshittery in that the entire notion of sexual shame began during the Jewish revolution several hundred years ago.
If YOU want to go out and find a relationship, fine, but don't you dare judge anyone else for choosing to subject themselves to viewing victimless acts to satisfy a completely physical or superficial biological need for release by themselves or with their own significant other which, as others have illustrated in this thread, have actually helped their relationship.
[QUOTE='[BBNH] Jesus;43328514']The problem is that religion, the three main mono-theisms specifically, never ceases to judge and control and oppress the world. All three of them preach world domination through indoctrination. I would be completely content with religion if religion were kept to itself (though I would certainly not respect anyone who falls victim to this ultimate delusion).
Unfortunately, religion works its way into our laws and our lives despite many of us not wanting anything to do with it. Atheists aren't forcing our way into churches, we're forcing Christians to get the hell out of our lives, really. Religion is oppressive. We want them to stop trying to oppress us and keep their deluded fingers out of our lives.
Nobody's simulating a relationship when watching porn. Just because you cannot separate the concepts of sex and relationship doesn't mean those of us who can should feel ashamed of doing so or be restricted from viewing porn in the first place.
Again, this goes right back to religious bullshittery in that the entire notion of sexual shame began during the Jewish revolution several hundred years ago.
If YOU want to go out and find a relationship, fine, but don't you dare judge anyone else for choosing to subject themselves to viewing victimless acts to satisfy a completely physical or superficial biological need for release by themselves or with their own significant other which, as others have illustrated in this thread, have actually helped their relationship.[/QUOTE]
Its only your opinion that pornography is victimless. As we have already heard from a female facepuncher, it at least makes some people feel like shit, and for a good reason. It idealises sexuality and the human form to way beyond reality and raises our expectations thus. I have personally noticed that when viewing pornography has become a habit in my life, it becomes increasingly difficult to control my sexual appetites even in day to day life, and I am not ashamed to admit that since I see it as a typical human frailty and reaction to such conditioning. I do not mean to say I become some raging pervert, but merely that I am sometimes motivated by pleasure and sexual desire in times when I ought to be more loving and impartial.
I have already mentioned also that indulging in pornography can become an addiction and when it does it tends to escalate to more extreme forms of porn until basic human sexual relationships are not enough to get you off.
Basically I just think that the private and public lives of an individual are far less separate and distinct than we like to imagine. I don't think keeping secrets is any kind of healthy way to live (secrets such as what kind of porn you watch and what gets you off) and we ought to be more genuine in our interactions with people rather than getting a little satisfaction on the side from viewing porn.
It is not my intention to judge anyone, but unfortunately you are destined to be offended if you view every expression of a personal opinion to be an attack on your own.
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