Tropes vs Women in Video Games - Damsel in Distress - General

Holy shit guys NINE FUCKING PAGES OF BICKERING? Are you guys fucking serious? Half like her and half don't, both sides here are spewing the same shit over and over. Shadaez I love you and you're my friend but is this what you wanted? A debate? Everyone here just needs to go to mass debate holy FUCK. As for the video, I sfill dislike Anita and don't think the video was worth a 150K, or even a fraction of that but to each their own.

i did it for the anime princesses

Boo hoo sexism in video games, revealing clothing no way!! Oh wait, chicks wear slutty shit all the time in the real world, who gives a fuck?

[QUOTE=thisispain;39839290]you "talk" like an angry frustrated jerk? ok good 2 know for the future[/quote] And you post like a 12 year old ironically, news to absolutely no-one. [quote]an utterly manufactured clusterfuck that has no importance to the actual video we are discussing theres no reason to bring that up unless you want to attack her instead of her actual points [/quote] Not quite true, but it's relevant enough. She did proudly display all the criticism and harassment she gets rather than ignore the noise like every normal adult, building a false sense of unfair persecution and raking in all the cash from publicity. But if you just want to discuss the video them I'm fine with that. [quote]then how does it work, and why is it flawed??? of course its an "introduction course", thats the point of the video afaik youre saying its bad then saying there wasnt enough of it which is confusing. youre just making ambiguous criticism without any reasoning to justify calling her a dumbass.[/quote] Because one small sextion of a character, whether it be fanservice or an overused plot device, doesn't define the character and slotting it all into neat little tropes doesn't do justice to anything. Someone isn't completely reduced to an object from an agent just from one incident and when they're not just a token to strive after, it doesn't even fit that. Of course no heed paid to that, it's too hard to explain. Not just this video, the pacing of it seems as though all of them will be about the same level of discussion. It's not contributing anything, it's not providing valuable insights, it's just repeating things that people have heard over and over again, certainly going to help. And really, is it so hard to ask that she actually discuss the topic for a reasonable amount of time? Part of the reason it's flawed is because she barely touched on it. If she had less examples and more reasoning I might not have so many complaints. Of course she'll never see any of them, because I'm just harassing her. [quote]"gives little consideration to anything beyond the trope". wtf does that even mean, this is supposed to be about one trope[/quote] I mean the circumstances surrounding the trope. Tropes aren't indivisible story elements, they are modified significantly and where the circumstances of one may be sexist, another may be framed differently. Her sexist trope is as vague as a female is imprisoned and a male saves her, then lays that over everything, obviously there's a bit more to the scenario than that. [quote]i dont even know what you are talking about now with axioms and forecasts youre still not talking about this video btw, youve just focused on why anita is a bad person which is cool and all but i dont care about your analyses, focus on the video please[/QUOTE] mate im talking 98% bout the video, ur jus bein a cheeky cunt. Put basically, the core ideals and goal of her brand of feminism differ from mine, and hers isn't really well thought out, so I take issue with it. Forecasts have to do with PR and how well this campaign will influence people, and it probably won't do very well. For some reason not many people are into someone lecturing them about why things they like are sexist and not bringing anything to the table but assertions.

[QUOTE=person11;39839454]When the world is a better place, and when people stop reacting like children to people trying to make the world a better place. aka never[/QUOTE] How the hell is complaining about a lack of Women having major roles in a young entertainment industry making the world a better place when there are countries making nuclear threats every day and woman actually getting oppressed in so many Middle Eastern countries.

[QUOTE=IM BATMAN;39839522]How the hell is complaining about a lack of Women having major roles in a young entertainment industry making the world a better place when there are countries making nuclear threats every day and woman actually getting oppressed in so many Middle Eastern countries.[/QUOTE] Just because someone has it worse somewhere else does not mean you can silence people from talking about real issues. People are poor in Africa, why should we try to elevate the living standards of Americans? And do not try to say that oppression no longer exists in the West.

[QUOTE=IM BATMAN;39839522]How the hell is complaining about a lack of Women having major roles in a young entertainment industry making the world a better place when there are countries making nuclear threats every day and woman actually getting oppressed in so many Middle Eastern countries.[/QUOTE] mate us peons ain't got a lot we can do. this ain't high on the list, not even for me, but it's simple enough and ain't doin any harm. not high on the list, but still accomplishing the same thing

[QUOTE=person11;39839569]Just because someone has it worse somewhere else does not mean you can silence people from talking about real issues. People are poor in Africa, why should we try to elevate the living standards of Americans? And do not try to say that oppression no longer exists in the West.[/QUOTE] Heh, compared to the East there is absolutely no oppression here. Just little nitpicks, like this. Anyway, I can see this thread isn't going anywhere but a sexism/tropes in video gamed thread would be pretty.interesting (im sure as hell not making it though because I'd probably be too biased :v:) (apologies for any spelling mistakes, typing on a tiny phone screen)

[QUOTE=Devodiere;39839521]And you post like a 12 year old ironically, news to absolutely no-one.[/QUOTE] uh no 12 years olds dont have the grasp of irony that i have so no [QUOTE=Devodiere;39839521]Because one small sextion of a character, whether it be fanservice or an overused plot device, doesn't define the character and slotting it all into neat little tropes doesn't do justice to anything. Someone isn't completely reduced to an object from an agent just from one incident [/QUOTE] "one incident" being the entire plot of the game in her examples, which character are you referring to? [QUOTE=Devodiere;39839521] And really, is it so hard to ask that she actually discuss the topic for a reasonable amount of time? Part of the reason it's flawed is because she barely touched on it. If she had less examples and more reasoning[/QUOTE] its 20 minutes long and im pretty sure she touched on the subject enough for part 1 of a multi-part video im still trying to understand your criticism its not making any sense to me, what exactly is she missing??? [QUOTE=Devodiere;39839521]obviously there's a bit more to the scenario than that. [/QUOTE] like what [QUOTE=Devodiere;39839521]Put basically, the core ideals and goal of her brand of feminism differ from mine, and hers isn't really well thought out, so I take issue with it.[/quote] how so youre being super-vague

[QUOTE=SatansSin;39835465]she even looks like a cunt you can tell by how she looks, you know? Just look at her. Don't tell me she doesn't[/QUOTE] fucking reddit had a better reaction than this the default videogame subreddit did a better job responding than this good fucking job, facepunch, you absolute morons

Every time feminism is mentioned on FP it turns into a shitstorm. It doesn't help that both sides are awful too. I'm all for gender equality and getting rid of gender stereotyping. But saying that here will associate me with all these whackjobs who are so insecure they have to argue about it for 10 pages. As for the video itself its pretty mediocre.

[QUOTE=BaCkStAbEr;39837880]I'm not on any side here, I find both sides and their respective arguments incredibly retarded, but holy shit, that show is boring as hell.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Hunterdnrc;39839488]Holy shit guys NINE FUCKING PAGES OF BICKERING? Are you guys fucking serious? Half like her and half don't, both sides here are spewing the same shit over and over. Shadaez I love you and you're my friend but is this what you wanted? A debate? Everyone here just needs to go to mass debate holy FUCK. As for the video, I sfill dislike Anita and don't think the video was worth a 150K, or even a fraction of that but to each their own.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=zombojoe;39839705]Every time feminism is mentioned on FP it turns into a shitstorm. It doesn't help that both sides are awful too. I'm all for gender equality and getting rid of gender stereotyping. But saying that here will associate me with all these whackjobs who are so insecure they have to argue about it for 10 pages. As for the video itself its pretty mediocre.[/QUOTE] i luv how you all can feel superior to everyone

[QUOTE=thisispain;39839599]uh no 12 years olds dont have the grasp of irony that i have so no[/quote] mate you thought my cis scum patriarchy banter was a strawman. that shit was funny. [quote]"one incident" being the entire plot of the game in her examples, which character are you referring to?[/quote] Well she only gave a few real examples so to name it again, Zelda, particularly WW and OoT. While being one interest alongside "stopping the end of the world" in most other games, getting kidnapped once in a pretty long game is enough to plaster the trope over the entire character and claim sexism. It's not keeping to the spirit of the trope and barely to the letter, yet by association it's sexist according to her. That's just bullshit. [quote]its 20 minutes long and im pretty sure she touched on the subject enough for part 1 of a multi-part video im still trying to understand your criticism its not making any sense to me, what exactly is she missing???[/quote] u been listening mate? its 20 minutes long but most of it is examples and history that could be summed up far more succinctly. spend less time talkin about examples, more time discussin, we've already spent ages more on the basics than she did and she's supposed to be the content provider. that simple enough? [quote]how so youre being super-vague[/QUOTE] Not being very well thought out is pretty self-explanatory with how many holes I can poke in it. The other core issue being on sex and so-called objectification. No doubt a later video will show off some of the sexy characters in fighters and claim that sexy = sexist, I take issue with that. I'd go into it further but that's for a later vid, and I will rescind such a comment if she does come up with something other than a trope about sexy + fighter/sidekick/sidecharacter = sexist, so we'll wait until that time.

perhaps the truth is....in the middle....

[QUOTE=zombojoe;39839705] I'm all for gender equality and getting rid of gender stereotyping. But saying that here will associate me with all these whackjobs who are so insecure they have to argue about it for 10 pages.[/QUOTE] are you calling me insecure???

I think OP only posted this to see the inevitable shitstorm that would ensue. On topic: I agree with the whole stereotyping deal, but devs aren't going to change shit, no matter how much you ask. You should really just live with it and focus on more important things. Also I find the word "Feminist" to be pretty much derogatory at this point, so I have pretty much no respect for someone who identifies themselves as such

[QUOTE=Shadaez;39839021]No, because Luigi is a man and men aren't underrepresented, and when they are represented in games it usually isn't passively or negatively. How do you not get this.[/QUOTE] Neither are women, only when you focus on the negative, which is the fucking issue with Anita, she only shows 1 side.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39839753]Neither are women, only when you focus on the negative, which is the fucking issue with Anita, she only shows 1 side.[/QUOTE] lol dude she has a video in the series which will be going over positive examples you nonce

[QUOTE=IM BATMAN;39839592]Heh, compared to the East there is absolutely no oppression here. Just little nitpicks, like this. Anyway, I can see this thread isn't going anywhere but a sexism/tropes in video gamed thread would be pretty.interesting (im sure as hell not making it though because I'd probably be too biased :v:) (apologies for any spelling mistakes, typing on a tiny phone screen)[/QUOTE] You do not need to apologize for your spelling. Just try to change your world view a bit. Do you realize how wrong it is to look at things in relative terms? Sure, a woman living in the USA is much better off than one living in Saudi Arabia, for instance, but that does not mean we should ignore all the problems the American woman is dealing with on a daily basis. Problems need to be examined and solved on an absolute basis.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39839753]Neither are women, only when you focus on the negative, which is the fucking issue with Anita, she only shows 1 side.[/QUOTE] When you put yourself alongside Redstate in only wanting to appeal to one side, you can't complain when that's what you get. It's pointless masturbation that no-one should care about, but that's her choice.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;39839736]mate you thought my cis scum patriarchy banter was a strawman. that shit was funny.[/QUOTE] what [QUOTE=Devodiere;39839736]Well she only gave a few real examples so to name it again, Zelda, particularly WW and OoT. While being one interest alongside "stopping the end of the world" in most other games, getting kidnapped once in a pretty long game is enough to plaster the trope over the entire character and claim sexism. It's not keeping to the spirit of the trope and barely to the letter, yet by association it's sexist according to her. That's just bullshit.[/QUOTE] i dont hear her "claiming" sexism i dont know why you keep saying that she was using zelda to explore how the trope is sometimes used differently and subverted, why is that bullshit??? [QUOTE=Devodiere;39839736]u been listening mate? its 20 minutes long but most of it is examples and history that could be summed up far more succinctly. spend less time talkin about examples, more time discussin, we've already spent ages more on the basics than she did and she's supposed to be the content provider. that simple enough?[/QUOTE] discussing what!? [QUOTE=Devodiere;39839736]Not being very well thought out is pretty self-explanatory with how many holes I can poke in it.[/QUOTE] what holes can you poke in "her brand of feminism". im trying really hard to understand plz [editline]7th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39839753]Neither are women, only when you focus on the negative[/QUOTE] what

Saying that Anita is wrong or dumb for only talking about one side is like when Republicans say that women should not be a part of the debate about abortion because they are biased. She is a woman talking about misogyny. She does not need to constantly pander to guys for complete approval by constantly reminding them that they are not ALL bad, etc.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;39839276]She's not presenting a balanced argument in the slightest, giving no reasons for the things she explains beyond men being sexist, and gives a grade-school lecture that everyone knows rather than showing she actually knows what she's talking about. Rather than contributing to the discourse, she's repeating tired old tropes while ignoring any criticism and raking in huge sums of cash. The impression before was she was just going to complain about everything being sexist with no consideration beyond "is it sexist", and that's what she delivered. It's underwhelming and given everything else, including her doing this kind of shit for free previously anyway, is just poor form.[/QUOTE] did you watch the video i get the feeling you didn't

[QUOTE=Devodiere;39839775]When you put yourself alongside Redstate in only wanting to appeal to one side, you can't complain when that's what you get. It's pointless masturbation that no-one should care about, but that's her choice.[/QUOTE] is anything that doesnt explicitly make a point "pointless masturbation"? are philosophers pointlessly masturbating when they pick a subject and write about their viewpoint? i dont think so; so i dont know why she has the obligation to be two sided?

Yeah, the obligation for being two sided is so that a bunch of Fedoras can call the woman a slut and threaten to rape her (saying it was only a joke and not getting why that is so terrible) while claiming that misogyny does not exist anymore.

i dont understand how you can knock someone for being one-sided then say that women arent portrayed badly in videogames when you ignore the bad parts

[QUOTE=person11;39839819]Yeah, the obligation for being two sided is so that a bunch of Fedoras can call the woman a slut and threaten to rape her (saying it was only a joke and not getting why that is so terrible) while claiming that misogyny does not exist anymore.[/QUOTE] the attitude that you need to present both sides will literally get you a failing grade in college, so lol at those people

[QUOTE=LukeyxD;39837301]I'd suggest checking this guys videos out for a point of view. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpFk5F-S_hI[/media] Edit: These were made pre-episode, but still apply.[/QUOTE] That's funny, this asshole left a comment one of my videos a long time ago. [IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/xd9lrr.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=thisispain;39839777]i dont hear her "claiming" sexism i dont know why you keep saying that she was using zelda to explore how the trope is sometimes used differently and subverted, why is that bullshit???[/quote] because she wasn't sayin shit about it being subverted. the point of it is to show sexism through the use of the trope and that the trope is sexist. she makes no differentiation between anything and the only example of how not to be sexist in her vid, is either making a female protag or never having them be captured. for an introduction course, i would've thought you could figure that out. [quote]discussing what!?[/quote] We're going in circles now. Despite stating in my first post; why the trope occurs and how it is used, when it is sexist rather than plastering sexist across the entire trope, how such things can be remedied, but of course she'll cover that poorly in the next episode despite having 20 minutes to do it here. [quote]what holes can you poke in "her brand of feminism". im trying really hard to understand plz[/QUOTE] ffs man, you're not even trying any more. [QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;39839796]did you watch the video i get the feeling you didn't[/QUOTE] This is an example of how not to respond to criticism. Rather than addressing any of their points, you attack the person, question their knowledge and trying to mock them. Unfortunately it is little more than a shitpost and should probably be taken elsewhere. [QUOTE=thisispain;39839800]is anything that doesnt explicitly make a point "pointless masturbation"? are philosophers pointlessly masturbating when they pick a subject and write about their viewpoint? i dont think so; so i dont know why she has the obligation to be two sided?[/QUOTE] lol, philosophy. Really, it won't do anything because the people who it is supposed to reach, ones who may be influenced or can change things, are alienated. If you want to change the Zeitgeist, you cast your net as wide as possible rather than just in people who already agree with you. Needless to say, Anita doesn't care about influencing anyone and probably won't advance the cause of feminism in the slightest, BUT IF THAT'S WHAT SHE WANTED TO DO THEN THAT'S OK.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;39839922]because she wasn't sayin shit about it being subverted. the point of it is to show sexism through the use of the trope and that the trope is sexist. she makes no differentiation between anything and the only example of how not to be sexist in her vid, is either making a female protag or never having them be captured. for an introduction course, i would've thought you could figure that out.[/QUOTE] I've said this already, but it's not inherently sexist, it perpetuates sexism.