Tropes vs Women in Video Games - Damsel in Distress - General

Jesus christ you guys need to calm down.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39840228]If she wants to be taken seriously she should be talking on both sides, everything she was arguing is a joke tbh.[/QUOTE] why was it a joke dont just say its a joke, be specific or else ill insult you for 4 pages and you dont want that [QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39840228] So when she fucks up facts its kind of hard to take her seriously.[/QUOTE] i agree, this is a fair criticism, if she fucks up on facts she should accept being wrong as a consequence of inquiry [editline]7th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=t h e;39840248]Jesus christ you guys need to calm down.[/QUOTE] everyone seems pretty calm to me??

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39840228]If she wants to be taken seriously she should be talking on both sides, everything she was arguing is a joke tbh. The only valid thing was the was the starfox shit which was pretty cringy, but she got it wrong. You dont only play as Krystal, you also have a male protagonist called Sabre who was the brother. So when she fucks up facts its kind of hard to take her seriously.[/QUOTE] Have you read anything from this thread? You cannot try to take the other side into account when the other side is a corrupt and oppressive society. It is like telling Obama that he should honestly listen to Republicans who do not believe in evolution r global warming.

Watched the whole thing. The damsel in distress cliche has been around for thousands of years. If anything, its practically hard-coded in human story telling. The way she describes women as being "objectified", isn't because of the gaming industry. Its just merely a byproduct of modern culture and business. She even states it herself, game developers during the 90's appealed mainly to straight boys. Games with female protagonists can still sell, it just takes more creativity.

[QUOTE=t h e;39840248]Jesus christ you guys need to calm down.[/QUOTE] REMAIN CALM SIR EVERYTHING WILL BE OKAY. Alright I'm gonna go ahead and leave you guys to it then, have fun hashing it out, I guess. Peace.

i dont agree with that you can take the other side into account its just theres no point for anita to do so because shes not doing reporting or journalism, she's doing inquiry based on feminist study its like you dont read "God is Not Great" and go "wow hitchens not a single study on how great god is" it wouldn't make sense and falls outside the scope of that work [editline]7th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=soulharvester;39840268]REMAIN CALM SIR EVERYTHING WILL BE OKAY. Alright I'm gonna go ahead and leave you guys to it then, have fun hashing it out, I guess. Peace.[/QUOTE] ok

Makeup is mostly marketed and sold to women, you don't hear me complaining. Videogames are mostly marketed and sold to boys, I don't see the problem. Rate dumb to spite me.

[QUOTE=thisispain;39840255]why was it a joke dont just say its a joke, be specific or else ill insult you for 4 pages and you dont want that i agree, this is a fair criticism, if she fucks up on facts she should accept being wrong as a consequence of inquiry [editline]7th March 2013[/editline] everyone seems pretty calm to me??[/QUOTE] Go ahead and insult me for 4 pages, you sound like a tool by saying "or else ill insult you for 4 pages and you dont want that" Like wtf dude.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39840309]Go ahead and insult me for 4 pages, you sound like a tool by saying "or else ill insult you for 4 pages and you dont want that" Like wtf dude.[/QUOTE] bad joke, sorry did i mention im on cold medication, thats some wild shit man please dont let this thread die on that

I thought the video was pretty good. Long and a bit on the dry side but learned a lot of things I didn't know about older games. I'm eager to see what games have empowered female characters.

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;39838441]far cry 3 max payne 3 dishonored[/QUOTE] never played far cry 3 or max payne 3 but in dishonored it's not so much her being a damsel but her being like 10 years old i actually thought the video was a lot better than i expected it to be originally, it wasn't as much her bitching about things and calling sexism on everything but just pointing out that the themes are present and while not actively trying to objectify women, they do have a negative side effect, which is true it was actually sorta interesting and i feel like the vast majority of people in this thread didn't watch the video at all and are just blindly shitting on it i find myself interested in watching the whole thing to be honest

[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;39840267]Watched the whole thing. The damsel in distress cliche has been around for thousands of years. If anything, its practically hard-coded in human story telling. The way she describes women as being "objectified", isn't because of the gaming industry. Its just merely a byproduct of modern culture and business. She even states it herself, game developers during the 90's appealed mainly to straight boys. Games with female protagonists can still sell, it just takes more creativity.[/QUOTE] It is true that this misogyny is very, very, old. It is internalized by many otherwise good people. The best way to solve this problem is to admit there is one, though at this point I am a broken record.

she has like... two good points. i understand what she means by the trope of women being the damsels in distress is overused but... she really doesn't have much else going for her in this video. it's just saying "ah women are weak in games and are feminine, men gotta save them."

Well, the point of all feminist rhetoric is insanely simple and obvious; refusal to understand it is usually denial or ingrained notions about society that do not make sense. The simple point she makes is that women are barely ever in your football team or the team you are going against: they are the ball you use in the game.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;39840584]she has like... two good points. i understand what she means by the trope of women being the damsels in distress is overused but... she really doesn't have much else going for her in this video. it's just saying "ah women are weak in games and are feminine, men gotta save them."[/QUOTE] This entire study is completely invalidated anyway by the fact she doesn't actually have any sort of critical sense. She argues that women in video games are weak and always in distress, fine, but she doesn't even take the time to look at the games that actually have good female characters. Shit, wanna hear of a game that has good female characters ? Eternal Darkness. There isn't a whole lot of female characters in the game, but the two you get to play as are both good fighters, do actually helpful things and both do even more significant things than most of the male characters. Shit, one of them is supposed to be a slave/dancer and ends up saving the world just because she decided to. And the game doesn't even try to make ~strong independent woman~ characters, they just sort of happen and feel very natural like the rest of the characters in this game.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;39840652]This entire study is completely invalidated anyway by the fact she doesn't actually have any sort of critical sense. She argues that women in video games are weak and always in distress, fine, but she doesn't even take the time to look at the games that actually have good female characters. Shit, wanna hear of a game that has good female characters ? Eternal Darkness. There isn't a whole lot of female characters in the game, but the two you get to play as are both good fighters, do actually helpful things and both do even more significant things than most of the male characters. Shit, one of them is supposed to be a slave/dancer and ends up saving the world just because she decided to. And the game doesn't even try to make ~strong independent woman~ characters, they just sort of happen and feel very natural like the rest of the characters in this game.[/QUOTE] somebody should make a counter video showing off all of the strong female characters actually nevermind, i remember at one point sarqueezian said something like "strong female characters are just men but with female bodies" or some dumb shit like that.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39835523][img]http://i.imgur.com/K9jiDN2.png[/img] No panties visible, girl not being treated like she can't handle anything but instead suckerpunched in the stomach as if she's a dude. Too agressive. WHAT DOES THIS WOMAN WANT.[/QUOTE] That's even dumber when you know the game ends up with the girl giving the bad guy a world-shattering punch in the crotch. But hey this dumb broad probably didn't even bother going all the way to the end to check that out.

Making a list of games wit strong female characters could work, but it would be very hard to prove that they are not simply exceptions to the very old rule.

[QUOTE=thisispain;39840002]go 16m's in and you'll find that she explains why the subversion doesnt change anything because zelda is still "damsled" and has the power taken away from the her character. she doesnt explicitely say "this is sexist", she says that this turns her character arc into a simplistic trope instead of a character development so i don't know what you are talking about, your criticism doesnt hold water [/quote] thnx for watching it again, i cbf but that's pretty much exactly the point i wanted. That is the core issue, simplifying everything into a trope. Tropes are vague and often very broad elements that stories share. Two things sharing the same trope can be completely different save that one issue and it's just pointless simplification to bring it back to claim they are the same. It is one part of a much larger character arc that certainly isn't cut short by it. Look at the list of tropes that [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda]LoZ features[/url], there's a fuckton like every piece of work and the Damsell in Distrss trope is no more important than any. It isn't the only defining characteristic of Zelda and claiming she's completely disempowered by being captured just once is absurd. [quote]were not going in circles, you just havent answered my question. what should she discuss that she hasnt already discussed im stuffed up with cold medicine[/QUOTE] What? I've said over and over, she hardly touched on any of the topics and didn't go into any depth on them. When other people can make 5 minute long videos and be more in-depth than her 20 minute school lecture, it's a legitimate criticism to say she's rambling and doesn't have enough discussion. [QUOTE=Lazor;39840068]why are people like you allowed to post[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Pat4ever;39840081]oh sorry, we higher-thinking individuals were just talking amongst ourselves you can go play with the toys in the corner while the adults keep talking if you want[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Aredbomb;39840184]Oh okay. Yeah I don't see his point in saying that at all.[/QUOTE] jesus christ you people are anal. it wasn't about philosophy being useless, it was about thisispain comparing this load of shit to philosophy. aren't we quick to act all smarty though?[QUOTE=thisispain;39840278]i dont agree with that you can take the other side into account its just theres no point for anita to do so because shes not doing reporting or journalism, she's doing inquiry based on feminist study its like you dont read "God is Not Great" and go "wow hitchens not a single study on how great god is" it wouldn't make sense and falls outside the scope of that work[/QUOTE] not so much about presenting the other side, but accomodating them is important. if hitchens aimed his work at people who were already atheist and disregarded anyone christian or something inbetween, it would be a bit shitter. maybe presenting a comprehensive argument is best, one that at least acknowledges the other side's arguments, even if it disproves them immediately. shows awareness rather than living in a happy little bubble.

Argue what you will, debate is fine and dandy but what's the deal with [del]airline food[/del] all this unnecessary ad hominem going on here? You're only making yourselves look worse than before.

[QUOTE=KingOfScience;39840881]Argue what you will, debate is fine and dandy but what's the deal with [del]airline food[/del] all this unnecessary ad hominem going on here? You're only making yourselves look worse than before.[/QUOTE] People often use the term ad hominem wrong, so I'll explain. If you say someone is an wrong because they are an idiot, it's an ad hominem and a fallacy. If you say someone is an idiot because they are wrong (along with providing reasoning why they are wrong), it's just being an asshole, and quite frankly I am an asshole so I'm ok with that.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;39840916]People often use the term ad hominem wrong, so I'll explain. If you say someone is an wrong because they are an idiot, it's an ad hominem and a fallacy. If you say someone is an idiot because they are wrong (along with providing reasoning why they are wrong), it's just being an asshole, and quite frankly I am an asshole so I'm ok with that.[/QUOTE] I was referring more to posts like this: [QUOTE=Ganerumo;39840665]That's even dumber when you know the game ends up with the girl giving the bad guy a world-shattering punch in the crotch. [B]But hey this dumb broad probably didn't even bother going all the way to the end to check that out.[/B][/QUOTE] Calling her a "dumb broad" serves no purpose and is just making the guy seem like a jackass.

Let's make a quick rundown of a bunch of good female characters : - Catwoman (Batman arkham city) - Bayonetta - Heather (Silent hill 3) - Lara croft (early Tomb Raider, Anniversary and Legends especially) - Sarah Lyons, Moira Brown, Amata, Red (Fallout 3) - Trudy, Sunny Smiles (Fallout New Vegas) - Kayle (League of Legends) - Lady (DMC) - Gaia, Athena (God of War) - Ellia, Alex Roivas (Eternal Darkness)

[QUOTE=TheJoey;39840221]neither side can handle talking about it in a way that is intelligent or meaningful. last time i said i hated anita but showed strong pro-feminism ideals i was still labelled by some users as a [b]rape apologist[/b]. a mod even agreed with it. moral of the story is most of you are too dumb to even be discussing this. so please stop trying.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/atheists.png[/IMG]

If a video game series came out that that was like Mario except reversed. I doubt men would come out saying its sexist. Reversed as in Mario and Bowser are females and are fighting over Peach who is now male. Its a plot device that sells. Very few men will buy the game just because the female character gets kidnapped and it makes them feel all manly for saving a virtual character. I think its fine that she promotes feminism, but its like the argument that video games promote violence. Companies most likely do not use the damsel in distress trope because they are sexist or support sexism.

Oh hey, it's that one person Facepunch doesn't like. Yeah, she didn't really look like she deserved all of the money she got, but she really didn't ask for that much. It'll probably not be very good, but oh well. Hopefully Facepunch won't immediately alternate between calling her a bitch and then focusing on her looks oh wait there we go.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;39840987]hurrdurrlookatmesosmartpostingxkcd[/QUOTE] Not relevant in the slightest and you're only proving his point that you're too dumb to comprehend more than two viewpoints. In these kind of arguments, and really any argument on the internet, people tend to put it in black and white perspective; this is what people on my side believe, and this is what people on the other side believe. More often than not, people believe those on the other side are baby-eating nazis as happens in any Israel discussion. Here despite stating I was for equality, because I go against most people I might as well keep women as slaves for all anyone cares. At lease it helps you sleep at night safe in your viewpoints never letting any doubt seep in.

why is she talking about stairfax temperatures Oh god that sound design, oh god that stupid fucking staff, oh god that stupid fucking game I agree with her negative sentiment completely three minutes in at least

i honestly cannot gauge how facepunch feels about this it's really just a hodgepodge of sweet feminist buzzwords and literary tropes that have been around forever, she raises some alright points but fails to make any resounding impact on her audience if they aren't of the same mindset as her i'm completely supportive of feminism, but anita doesn't really accomplish anything in her video, and it certainly doesn't warrant any further episodes if the content will be similar to this one it's very meh information that a lot of her core constituency knows, and any peripheral constituency will understand to be redundant - i just don't think that it's a good series

[QUOTE=soulharvester;39840150]As did 36 others, I thought it was a funny comment, though I would never go so far as to say such a thing myself. And as your friend MisterMooth says, "The ratings are there to be used." I could go back and switch it to 'funny' instead so as to make it more accurate to my actual feelings on the post, but it's honestly ridiculous to read that much into a single rating (By the way this argument has already been had, so please let's not argue about the significance of ratings.)[/QUOTE] what's the joke