Tropes vs Women in Video Games - Damsel in Distress - General

okay that is nowhere near the point of King Kong KK isn't about a big macgruber takin' our wommens, it's about the unlikely relationship between pure unmatched animalistic brutality and the 1940's vision of purity and beauty. The brute being Kong and the purity being the woman. The point of the scene isn't that a poor little woman is in trouble and needs saving, remember that Kong pretty much levels everything he sees gentleman's sausage or no, it's just a demonstration of the plight of a brutal creature. Stealing her away, climbing out of reach, it's supposed to communicate that that's the only thing that a creature like Kong CAN do to remain close to the one he 'loves'. He's forced to fight the world, clutching desperately for what he desires, and is inevitably killed for it. There is no "damsel in distress" element, because at that point in the movie, you kind of understand how Kong feels and thinks. You know he'd never harm her. You're supposed to be afraid for him. see this is what always fucking happens, she creates categories and then tries to fit things into those categories without respect for context or intent. and what kills me is that eight minutes in im totally with her except FOR THAT ONE THING, which should not have been a thing considering how long she's had to research for this project

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;39840975]Let's make a quick rundown of a bunch of good female characters : - Catwoman (Batman arkham city) - Bayonetta - Heather (Silent hill 3) - Lara croft (early Tomb Raider, Anniversary and Legends especially) - Sarah Lyons, Moira Brown, Amata, Red (Fallout 3) - Trudy, Sunny Smiles (Fallout New Vegas) - Kayle (League of Legends) - Lady (DMC) - Gaia, Athena (God of War) - Ellia, Alex Roivas (Eternal Darkness)[/QUOTE] So we found a lot of non Damsel characters. Are they also beyond other male imposed feminine stereotypes? Skimpy clothes and perfect bodies, type cast personalities, etc? I am sure more of these themes will be explored in future videos, and I am excited to see her talk about them. (also, you can argue that guys in games can also be sexualized somewhat, but only to male fantasies of power and sexuality, never female visions of what they usually find nice in guys, there was a good comic that illustrated it)

Hey, she didn't include MM in the Zelda collage. Nice touch. [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=person11;39841196]So we found a lot of non Damsel characters. Are they also beyond other male imposed feminine stereotypes? Skimpy clothes and perfect bodies, type cast personalities, etc? I am sure more of these themes will be explored in future videos, and I am excited to see her talk about them. (also, you can argue that guys in games can also be sexualized somewhat, but only to male fantasies of power and sexuality, never female visions of what they usually find nice in guys, there was a good comic that illustrated it)[/QUOTE] Bayonetta is the game where this argument really starts going. Because while her character design incorporates as many fetishes as are humanly possible to put on one person without causing a spatial paradox, her design is also legitimately good. And if all of the sexual elements are intentional and well executed within the game, are they necessarily bad? And as for oversexualized equality, Japan's probably the only country that actually has that down pat. With a healthy, if less bugfuck crazy, audience for graphic fiction there are no shortage of bishounen boytoy sex fantasy characters. Hell, who do you think Hideo was selling to when he made Raiden the star of MGS2?

[QUOTE=person11;39841196]So we found a lot of non Damsel characters. Are they also beyond other male imposed feminine stereotypes? Skimpy clothes and perfect bodies, type cast personalities, etc? I am sure more of these themes will be explored in future videos, and I am excited to see her talk about them. (also, you can argue that guys in games can also be sexualized somewhat, but only to male fantasies of power and sexuality, never female visions of what they usually find nice in guys, there was a good comic that illustrated it)[/QUOTE] MALE POWER FANTASY PERFECT ASS [img]http://i.imgur.com/Ubcj3bI.jpg[/img] Really though that notion is also absolute bullshit. It's not about what men want to be and find attractive in women, it's just general societal idealised forms. What woman doesn't want to have a perfect body the same as any guy, and what man doesn't want to have huge muscles and a six pack. Whether you look at real life, literature, comics or even ancient sources, they all structure their characters around the idealised physique. Games just take after everything else in what we design them to look like. Don't get the wrong idea though, those of the radical feminist persuasion deem all examples of someone being attractive as sexist from Christina Hendricks being male fantasy big boobs to Ryan Gosling being male fantasy autist getting a girl. It's obviously sexist that women wear revealing dresses and men wear suits, that women wear makeup and men don't, that people find women attractive but not men, probably. The point is if you can look at real life gender differences and figure out why that occurs and why everyone isn't just androgynous, then games follow the same logic. Not counting [url=http://i.imgur.com/w9t0lD2.jpg]stupid shit[/url] though, that's just fanservice bullshit and no-one cares, of course that occurs in any other media too so who cares.

What a scam. Talked more about TV shows and talked about Nintendo games the entire time. Well done. Certainly has the production value of 150k dollars.

[QUOTE=Namaste;39841354]What a thundercunt. Talked more about TV shows and talked about Nintendo games the entire time. Well done. Certainly has the production value of 150k dollars.[/QUOTE] this is a pretty damn dumb post, but i've never heard the term thundercunt before, so thanks for that

I shouldn't have called her that and I edited the post. However, I do still think she talked more about media that was not video games and she talked solely about Nintendo games, and that video was no different than any of her other videos. She didn't need any money to make that if her other videos have the same level of production value.

[QUOTE=Namaste;39841388]I shouldn't have called her that and I edited the post. However, I do still think she talked more about media that was not video games and she talked solely about Nintendo games, and that video was no different than any of her other videos. She didn't need any money to make that if her other videos have the same level of production value.[/QUOTE] I didn't find her talking about other media too much, I would have made far more comparisons to other media. As for Nintendo games, I'm pretty sure that's because she wanted to give a historical view in the first video because it's easiest to pick examples from games without much story and her target audience won't know anything other than Mario and Zelda from that long ago. The cash, no-one can argue and prefer not to talk about.

[QUOTE=Namaste;39841354]What a scam. Talked more about TV shows and talked about Nintendo games the entire time. Well done. Certainly has the production value of 150k dollars.[/QUOTE] She really could have made this video half as long Cut the jibber jabbering about history and just define the terms you're going to be using, list a few key examples without getting mired in trivia, and then move on to the culturally relevant modern part of the video and if you're going to spend twenty minutes going over the minutia of how the DiD trope was in X number of games, maybe try theorizing why? Talk about the various reasons why? Explore ideas for why women are always portrayed as weaker than men besides "men like it"?

Feminist dyke bitch.

[QUOTE=Butthurter;39841595]how does citra not fall under the damsel in distress trope? just bc they handled it in a unique way dosent mean it isnt, it still falls under that category no matter how perfectly handled it was [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] its like saying fight club doesnt have the multiple personality trope just bc the movie played the concept in an entirely different manner[/QUOTE] i don't think you played far cry 3 [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] there's not a single point in the game where you need to rescue citra there's not even a single point where citra is in danger at all, except for [sp]getting stabbed accidentally[/sp] in one of the endings

[QUOTE=Shadaez;39839732]i luv how you all can feel superior to everyone[/QUOTE] What How did you even get that from my post what the hell

I watched this video, it was my privelege.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;39840662]somebody should make a counter video showing off all of the strong female characters actually nevermind, i remember at one point sarqueezian said something like "strong female characters are just men but with female bodies" or some dumb shit like that.[/QUOTE] It was "strong female characters are just pretending to be men". [url]http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/12/07/whats-anita-sarkeesian-doing-with-all-that-kickstarter-money/[/url] Anyone who's been listening to Anita with critical thinking applied should be able to tell that she doesn't have much of a clue. [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] Started watching the episode, so far okay, but goddamn the presentation is so bad.

[quote]regressive crap[/quote] Really, Shakeresperian ?

That video was pretty interesting from a historical point of view. The statement that using the trope is wrong is pretty dumb. It's basically telling artists what sort of fiction not to make. It could work for making gaming more attractive for women but it's no good restricting the industry. It's better to let things take natural path and with the amount of women as devs the change has already started. Big publishers won't care for a long while but that's more power for indie devs.

Oh my god she is dull. You could atleast show a little bit of interest in the videos you got paid more money to make than i've spent pretty much my entire life. And with how long she spent making this, you would think she would atleast have double checked every one of the facts she spews, when quite a bit of it was not true at all.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;39840975] - Kayle (League of Legends) [/QUOTE] are you implying LoL HAS characterization at ALL? that's like saying I like the IDF's guys ass in CS:GO

[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39842591]are you implying LoL HAS characterization at ALL? that's like saying I like the IDF's guy's ass in CS:GO[/QUOTE] I like the idf guy's ass in CS:GO. GSG-9's is better tho.

[QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;39842601]I like the idf guy's ass in CS:GO. GSG-9's is better tho.[/QUOTE] SAS is the best, it was so mesmerizing that I didn't get shot in the back once while defusing.

[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39842610]SAS is the best, it was so mesmerizing that I didn't get shot in the back once while defusing.[/QUOTE] swat has a very nice helmet liner.

hmm the timing would be more appropriate if she released it today, on international women's day.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;39841264]and what man doesn't want to have huge muscles and a six pack.[/QUOTE] I don't, I always wanted to be a wizard.

[QUOTE=elowin;39843309]I don't, I always wanted to be a wizard.[/QUOTE] With huge muscles and a six pack.

[QUOTE=person11;39841196]So we found a lot of non Damsel characters. Are they also beyond other male imposed feminine stereotypes? Skimpy clothes and perfect bodies, type cast personalities, etc? I am sure more of these themes will be explored in future videos, and I am excited to see her talk about them. (also, you can argue that guys in games can also be sexualized somewhat, but only to male fantasies of power and sexuality, never female visions of what they usually find nice in guys, there was a good comic that illustrated it)[/QUOTE] "Male imposed feminine stereotypes" is an idiotic term. I can only think of one medium where it's truly put in practice and it's porn, because the only "male imposed" stereotype I can think of is a slutty bitch who sucks dicks without questioning what she's being asked to do. A good looking woman is NOT a male imposed stereotype, it's just a societal demand that's logical because people like to look good. These standards have changed through time and they will change again. Now for a bit more explanation on the characters (also added hammer from fable 2, forgot about her) - Catwoman (Batman arkham city) She's pretty much just a character that lives for herself and has fun with her life. She lives for crime and does crime for a living, and shows no remorse nor dependence for anyone. It's a well written character that is attaching and has her own personality. - Bayonetta That's kind of a special one, because bayonetta is essentially the female equivalent of dante. Both are essentially a huge dick/cunt, and both are just complete douchebags. They are also both extremely exaggerated stereotypes of their own gender (Dante for being the cool dude that doesn't care and plays romantic/enjoys pizza and tits, Bayonetta for being the stunning chick who acts slutty and enjoys generally not giving a shit about anything), both having the similar trait of pretty much just playing comedy for the sake of it, and enjoying toying around with people. - Heather (Silent hill 3) She goes through an entire fucking town filled with monsters created by her own twisted psyche. Do I need to go further ? - Lara croft (early Tomb Raider, Anniversary and Legends especially) Apart from the most recent sexism-induced iteration of the character, Croft has generally been a character that can be pretty much described as a badass. Her gender is relatively irrelevant considering she could do the same things with or without tits. - Sarah Lyons, Moira Brown, Amata, Red (Fallout 3) Lyons spends the entire game in a power armor that turns her body into a tank. Moira Brown is an attaching maniac who invents shit and is hyperactive. Amata is your childhood friend who is under the crushing responsibility of holding people alive under a giant mountain. Red is a bald black medic who keeps an entire town alive and who only needs help once, that is when she gets kidnapped along with a bunch of other townfolks by supermutants. - Trudy, Sunny Smiles (Fallout New Vegas) Trudy is a bartender who tells an armored and armed angry criminal to fuck off (aka she has balls) and Sunny Smiles is a scavenger lurking the wastelands with her dog. Both are friendly if you are friendly to them and show no belonging to any stereotypes you'd call sexist. - Kayle (League of Legends) Shit it's an angel in a medieval armor that has a flaming sword and who wants all of your shit dead. Don't fuck with her. - Lady (DMC) Don't know much about her. She's attractive (like 90% of characters , male of female, in video games, get over it), but she has a role in the game that goes beyond that. - Gaia, Athena (God of War) Both are strong characters that, despite being horrible betraying cunts, show incredible dedication to their cause and great convictions. - Ellia, Alex Roivas (Eternal Darkness) Ellia is a cambodian slave from Whatever BC who is so bored and unpleased with her job of dancer that she fucks off to the jungle, finds a sacred book that holds untold secrets of forbidden lore, and goes on an adventure to save the world. After thousands of years and a ton of characters who almost all die, it's Alex Roivas who eventually benefits of the efforts of Ellia and saves the universe for real. - Hammer (Fable 2) It's an ugly character that resembles a living, organic tank. She's huge, more muscular than hulk hogan on steroids and is generally going to kick your ass regardless of who or what you are. Not to mention she's attaching and a great character. [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=trotskygrad;39842591]are you implying LoL HAS characterization at ALL? that's like saying I like the IDF's guys ass in CS:GO[/QUOTE] Characters in LoL have full background, ties between each other, and there's an ongoing lore concerning all of the characters.

The Boss from MGS3 is easily the best female character I know of.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;39841208]Bayonetta is the game where this argument really starts going. Because while her character design incorporates as many fetishes as are humanly possible to put on one person without causing a spatial paradox, her design is also legitimately good. And if all of the sexual elements are intentional and well executed within the game, are they necessarily bad?[/QUOTE] My point exactly. The entire design of Bayonetta is pretty much a running joke. She's not just a useless bitch who stands there and looks pretty, she actually does things and her weird outfit is just her fucking around with people (you can see her wearing more normal clothing earlier in the game and in flashbacks, it's made pretty clear she just wears her weird outfit for kicks). [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Hakita;39843940]The Boss from MGS3 is easily the best female character I know of.[/QUOTE] Oh my god how did I forget about her

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;39843924] Characters in LoL have full background, ties between each other, and there's an ongoing lore concerning all of the characters.[/QUOTE] official lore? or fanfics?

[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39844135]official lore? or fanfics?[/QUOTE] Official lore.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;39844196]Official lore.[/QUOTE] seems sort of stupid then... but that's just me