Tropes vs Women in Video Games - Damsel in Distress - General

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39846585] I can bet you Anita doesnt care for games, if she did she knew trying to fight against this was retarded because its a form of censorship by trying to spark controversy so games will have more "political" correctness with women, which is wrong, games dont need to tend to ANYONES ways or beliefs. [/quote] why are you assuming this? she owned tons of games before, idk she seems pretty interested in gaming to me [QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39846585] And how is this sexism? Replace fucking peach with Luigi in every single Mario that has you going after Peach, is it still sexism, would this still be an issue? [/quote] except it wouldn't be sexist because men are still the focal point of video games (and all media) and luigi is a man (and mario is a man) [QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39846585] And the funniest part of this all, I bet you anything Anita wouldnt have done SHIT if she didnt reach her goal, even funnier, she needed money to make something as simple as this, something people do on youtube on all those channels you never find, for free on there own time. I guess she doesnt care enough that she had to be funded for god knows what.[/QUOTE] She has a whole different series of tropes vs women in other stuff (that I loved) I'm guessing she would have done it regardless but it would have been lesser quality, shorter, and a much smaller series nothing wrong with asking people to support her

[QUOTE=Shadaez;39845044] those poor men pixels lmao[/QUOTE] those poor women pixels lmao

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;39846580]13 pages of shitstorm. This thread couldn't have turned out differently, it was doomed from the very beginning[/QUOTE] we had a nice discussion about male asses in a non-sexism context last page.

[QUOTE=halflambada;39846696]I actually agree with her to an extent my problem is her approach which is just “let’s water everything down to tropes, that makes everything run together” but I do agree that the Damsel in Distress trope is a bit problematic, but as for OoT Zelda when she gets petrified it's less "It needs to be Women" and more "Well we can't petrify you because you're the main character and that wouldn't work gameplay wise"[/QUOTE] The video isn't saying these games are a problem, but the industrys trend to focus on women being passive and needing to be saved is the problem. I've explained this at least 3 times now. The Zelda series is great.

I'm not going to get involved in the whole sexism argument, but that required a kickstarter to make? Really?

zelda isn't captured because she's a girl she's captured because she has the triforce of wisdom her gender is really irrelevant in this situation she's just upset that she's a women if zelda was a man she wouldn't care, instead she'd complain there are no women though

[QUOTE=Shadaez;39846733]The video isn't saying these games are a problem, but the industrys trend to [B]focus on women being passive and needing to be saved is the problem[/B]. I've explained this at least 3 times now. The Zelda series is great.[/QUOTE] But why exactly ?

[QUOTE=Rex McCoolguy;39846751]But why exactly ?[/QUOTE] At its simplest, it reinforces gender roles that can be harmful and insulting for both men and women.

[QUOTE=Rex McCoolguy;39846751]But why exactly ?[/QUOTE] Not sure if you actually care or what, but it's pretty obvious and you should read the thread, but I'll say it again because it perpetuates the idea that women are those things (and that men are other things)

[QUOTE=person11;39845734]Women do not conform to these ideals because they are aware that men explicitly made them want to. The structure of society was built that way and it is hard to deviate from the norm. It is not egocentric to say that men have more control over women's live than is moral and just.[/QUOTE] You are just overanalyzing things. Of course women are trying to fit a certain standard of beauty to please the eyes of people they are physically attracted to, what the fuck else did you expect from any normal human being ? Men do it too, and guess what ? They didn't set their own standards of beauty, women did. It's almost like it MAKES SENSE, doesn't it ? Members of the opposite sex have a word on what they find attractive in the other gender. And I maintain that it's incredibly egocentric of you to claim that women only try to look good to appeal to men. What if they just want to feel good, because, big surprise, looking good usually makes you feel better about yourself ?

[QUOTE=Shadaez;39846700]why are you assuming this? she owned tons of games before, idk she seems pretty interested in gaming to me except it wouldn't be sexist because men are still the focal point of video games (and all media) and luigi is a man (and mario is a man) She has a whole different series of tropes vs women in other stuff (that I loved) I'm guessing she would have done it regardless but it would have been lesser quality, shorter, and a much smaller series nothing wrong with asking people to support her[/QUOTE] Ohhh its not sexist because Luigi and Mario are men, so its okay if they are portrayed as "property" [video=youtube;jq_i9xiQFEk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq_i9xiQFEk[/video] Also owning games =/= caring about games. My friends own a lot of games, they couldnt care less about gaming at all, they play them because its fun, but they couldnt give 2 fucks on who made the game or anything about the industry.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;39846795]Not sure if you actually care or what, but it's pretty obvious and you should read the thread, but I'll say it again because it perpetuates the idea that women are those things (and that men are other things)[/QUOTE] Hey, big news honey, women and men are different. Sure there are things that should NOT be different between them, but guess what ? Since the dawn of freaking time, there has been this entire idea of standards for the opposite gender, both from men and women. IT IS NORMAL. Why do you even complain about this so much ? There are so many more urgent things to discuss like, I dunno, the culture or rape, wife beatings, lower wages for women, sexism in politics, this sort of actual issues ? Why do you even care about a bunch of pixels ? Fucking seriously ? Why don't you go and care about the actual women made of flesh and bone who are striving right about now to earn a living ? I'll go ahead and say it's because fighting for THESE things would require actual effort. If the original feminists even back from the 50's looked at you for even a second, they would laugh so hard they would shatter the ground with their own hilarity.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39846839]Ohhh its not sexist because Luigi and Mario are men, so its okay if they are portrayed as "property"[/QUOTE] you said if peach and luigi were switched so you're playing a man saving another man ok?? it doesn't say anything about the gender of the two because they are the same [QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39846839] My friends own a lot of games, they couldnt care less about gaming at all, they play them because its fun, but they couldnt give 2 fucks on who made the game or anything about the industry.[/QUOTE] ok? so to 'care about games' you have to know who made them and such? she is making a video series on it so i think she cares

[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;39846784]At its simplest, it reinforces gender roles that can be harmful and insulting for both men and women.[/QUOTE] It really does not. It's a trope, and no one gives a shit about it expect the ones who really should have better things to do. You want a simple explanation on why there are so many cases of damsels in distress in games ? It's because it's a cheap, reliable plot point. Seeing a woman getting suckerpunched in the belly and taken away by bad guys is the fastest, easiest way to say "look, here's your objective, and here's the bad guy, go kick his ass". Do you REALLY think their message is "lol look how weak that bitch is go fuck her" ? No, of course it's not. [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Shadaez;39846935]you said if peach and luigi were switched so you're playing a man saving another man ok?? it doesn't say anything about the gender of the two because they are the same [/quote] He means if it was peach who was going to save luigi, do you even read these posts ? [QUOTE=Shadaez;39846935] ok? so to 'care about games' you have to know who made them and such? she is making a video series on it so i think she cares[/QUOTE] I doubt she played all of those games, let alone finished them. This is why I really dislike her, because she just showed up and tries to make a point about an industry she has no experience with. Most people have accumulated all this knowledge about games after years upon years of playing constantly, not because they suddenly decided video gaming was a good thing to know a lot of shit about. She is just not fit for the task. If there was some chick who played a lot of video games (and there are) who decided to write an essay about sexism in video games, I would read the FUCK out of it, because I know it'd be written by someone with experience on the matter who is not talking shit out of her ass, based on common knowledge or stuff she's seen from playing a game for 5 minutes and reading about the rest of the game online.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;39846935]you said if peach and luigi were switched so you're playing a man saving another man ok?? it doesn't say anything about the gender of the two because they are the same ok? so to 'care about games' you have to know who made them and such? she is making a video series on it so i think she cares[/QUOTE] Why is gender an issue now? And why wouldnt it be sexist against men? Now Luigi would be portrayed as a weak person since hes getting captured all the time now, he is now a damsels in distress and property of bowser and Mario is now saving his property, as put by Anita. Or does sexism not affect men? And why is this an issue in video games if it means fuck all and has always meant nothing since fucking pong. And if you cared about video gaming and the industry there are plenty of things you can do. Read about developers, talk to developers, go to developer meet ups such as the Boston Indies. Make stuff for games, listen to game commentary, make your own games, listen to interviews, etc... Owning games really doesn't mean you give a shit.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;39846948]It really does not. It's a trope, and no one gives a shit about it expect the ones who really should have better things to do. You want a simple explanation on why there are so many cases of damsels in distress in games ? It's because it's a cheap, reliable plot point. Seeing a woman getting suckerpunched in the belly and taken away by bad guys is the fastest, easiest way to say "look, here's your objective, and here's the bad guy, go kick his ass". Do you REALLY think their message is "lol look how weak that bitch is go fuck her" ? No, of course it's not. [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] He means if it was peach who was going to save luigi, do you even read these posts ? I doubt she played all of those games, let alone finished them. This is why I really dislike her, because she just showed up and tries to make a point about an industry she has no experience with. Most people have accumulated all this knowledge about games after years upon years of playing constantly, not because they suddenly decided video gaming was a good thing to know a lot of shit about. She is just not fit for the task. If there was some chick who played a lot of video games (and there are) who decided to write an essay about sexism in video games, I would read the FUCK out of it, because I know it'd be written by someone with experience on the matter who is not talking shit out of her ass, based on common knowledge or stuff she's seen from playing a game for 5 minutes and reading about the rest of the game online.[/QUOTE] i think the major thing people aren't getting is that video games are supposed to be fun, they aren't misogyny brainwashing programs funded by our evil patriarch rape society.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39845713]Gonna be honest. Only hysterical feminists would make a big deal out of this, dont think anyone played a game and thought "Wow this portrayal of women make me think lesser of them" Seriously, no one really gives a fuck except white knights and people like Anita. Not once have I even second guessed peach/zelda or any girl in any video game because its a fucking video game. What pisses me off the most is that people want to change this when all this really would be doing is a form of censorship and its disgusting.[/QUOTE] the portrayal of characters has a great effect on the way we perceive people. it impacts our culture; and our culture impacts these characters. having misogynistic stereotypes isn't acceptable, because they [i]do[/i] impact our idea of what acceptable behaviors are. and saying that game developers should not make use of derogatory stereotypes isn't "censorship", it's common sense. very few people petition for a change in law regarding the depiction of people, but they are understandably upset and want to fight against depictions that they feel are oppressive. it's in the same vein as game developers making outwardly racist titles. people would want to protest the shit out of a game that featured black people as monkeys. it doesn't mean you advocate censorship, it means you advocate a society that doesn't respect or buy into racism or sexism. [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] and this is coming from someone who finds the feminist frequency analysis of media lacking at best.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;39846886]Hey, big news honey, women and men are different. Sure there are things that should NOT be different between them, but guess what ? Since the dawn of freaking time, there has been this entire idea of standards for the opposite gender, both from men and women. IT IS NORMAL.[/QUOTE] it is, for the most part, societal. It also means you're weird or different and not 'normal' if you don't conform to those standards and gender roles. [QUOTE=Ganerumo;39846886] Why do you even complain about this so much ? There are so many more urgent things to discuss like, I dunno, the culture or rape, wife beatings, lower wages for women, sexism in politics, this sort of actual issues ? Why do you even care about a bunch of pixels ? Fucking seriously ? Why don't you go and care about the actual women made of flesh and bone who are striving right about now to earn a living ? [/QUOTE] uh I didn't make the video, and you realize that your first paragraph is the reason that most of these things happen right, i don't understand I'm against all those things, but I can't point out shit in games or else I don't care about those, too? I'm a gamer, I care about games. The misogyny in games is a reflection of misogyny in culture everywhere. ur like being super rediculous [QUOTE=Ganerumo;39846886] I'll go ahead and say it's because fighting for THESE things would require actual effort. If the original feminists even back from the 50's looked at you for even a second, they would laugh so hard they would shatter the ground with their own hilarity.[/QUOTE] holy crap dude

[QUOTE=yawmwen;39847016]the portrayal of characters has a great effect on the way we perceive people. it impacts our culture; and our culture impacts these characters. having misogynistic stereotypes isn't acceptable, because they [I]do[/I] impact our idea of what acceptable behaviors are. and saying that game developers should not make use of derogatory stereotypes isn't "censorship", it's common sense. very few people petition for a change in law regarding the depiction of people, but they are understandably upset and want to fight against depictions that they feel are oppressive. it's in the same vein as game developers making outwardly racist titles. people would want to protest the shit out of a game that featured black people as monkeys. it doesn't mean you advocate censorship, it means you advocate a society that doesn't respect or buy into racism or sexism. [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] and this is coming from someone who finds the feminist frequency analysis of media lacking at best.[/QUOTE] Video games have never impacted gender culture. Not once have I or anyone I have ever talked to ever thought more of men and less of women in video games. Not ever, not a single time has this ever been an issue until Anita decided it was one. Also if a dev wants to make racist as fuck game then let them, its not like its never been done before, you can just ignore it and pretend like it doesnt exist, you dont need to make a whole fucking movement against it. Video games are not misogynistic, are there misogynistic games, probably really fucking old ones like those SNES porn games no one owns. But in the vast majority of video games they is no misogyny, I cant say out of any games I have played have ever focused on hatred of women.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;39846948]It really does not. It's a trope, and no one gives a shit about it expect the ones who really should have better things to do. You want a simple explanation on why there are so many cases of damsels in distress in games ? It's because it's a cheap, reliable plot point. Seeing a woman getting suckerpunched in the belly and taken away by bad guys is the fastest, easiest way to say "look, here's your objective, and here's the bad guy, go kick his ass". Do you REALLY think their message is "lol look how weak that bitch is go fuck her" ? No, of course it's not.[/QUOTE] man you really are taking this out of context please show me where it said that? she's saying women should be in maybe the other role for once, or not just, you know, the objective and being critical of media is good, freaking out that,"OMG THERES WORSE THINGS OUT THERE YOU ARENT A FEMINIST" is bad, yeah there's worse stuff but this is still a good thing.

Every protagonist has dead parents. As a parent, I am extremely offended

[QUOTE=Shadaez;39847110]man you really are taking this out of context please show me where it said that? she's saying women should be in maybe the other role for once, or not just, you know, the objective and being critical of media is good, freaking out that,"OMG THERES WORSE THINGS OUT THERE YOU ARENT A FEMINIST" is bad, yeah there's worse stuff but this is still a good thing.[/QUOTE] If her point is women should be having the other role sometimes, then she's an absolute tool, because there ARE quite the number of female characters that are in the main role. Hell, want an example of a recent game that actually inverted the roles and put a man on the seat of the "damsel" in distress ? Batman : Arkham City. And the game has been released last year. [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Shadaez;39847110]man you really are taking this out of context please show me where it said that? she's saying women should be in maybe the other role for once, or not just, you know, the objective and being critical of media is good, freaking out that,"OMG THERES WORSE THINGS OUT THERE YOU ARENT A FEMINIST" is bad, yeah there's worse stuff but this is still a good thing.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't call it a good thing and more like "whining your throats out for no good reason". Seriously, this is an absolute non-issue. This deserves, at best, a short video from a fan of video games, not a full series and a kickstarter.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39847095]Video games have never impacted gender culture. Not once have I or anyone I have ever talked to ever thought more of men and less of women in video games. Not ever, not a single time has this ever been an issue until Anita decided it was one. Also if a dev wants to make racist as fuck game then let them, its not like its never been done before, you can just ignore it and pretend like it doesnt exist, you dont need to make a whole fucking movement against it. Video games are not misogynistic, are there misogynistic games, probably really fucking old ones like those SNES porn games no one owns. But in the vast majority of video games they is no misogyny, I cant say out of any games I have played have ever focused on hatred of women.[/QUOTE] so are you saying no media can have an impact on the way genders are perceived in society or are video games particularly special?

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;39847142]I wouldn't call it a good thing and more like "whining your throats out for no good reason". Seriously, this is an absolute non-issue. This deserves, at best, a short video from a fan of video games, not a full series and a kickstarter.[/QUOTE] the video series exists solely to make the backers feel good about themselves and their own opinions. everything she says is shit we already know, but the people who support her think she's some kind of feminist messiah and that if they whine enough everyone will have a change of heart and join their valiant battle against imaginary sexism in video games.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;39847142]If her point is women should be having the other role sometimes, then she's an absolute tool, because there ARE quite the number of female characters that are in the main role. Hell, want an example of a recent game that actually inverted the roles and put a man on the seat of the "damsel" in distress ? Batman : Arkham City. And the game has been released last year. [/quote] yes catwoman in a skin-tight vinyl outfit is a good female character this one trope isn't her whole analysis you know, and she's going to talk about role reversals next video [QUOTE=Ganerumo;39847142]I wouldn't call it a good thing and more like "whining your throats out for no good reason". Seriously, this is an absolute non-issue. This deserves, at best, a short video from a fan of video games, not a full series and a kickstarter.[/QUOTE] is whining about me defending a woman who made a series of videos about how the games industry is harmful somehow a good thing? and people actually do care about this! that is why she got $160k for a silly video series!

i like how the comments and ratings are disabled

[QUOTE=Shadaez;39847250]yes catwoman in a skin-tight vinyl outfit is a good female character this one trope isn't her whole analysis you know, and she's going to talk about role reversals next video[/quote] Because catwoman is in a skin-tight outfit does not invalidate her as a good character. If anything, it's made pretty clear that she just has this outfit to have fun and fuck around with people. She's far from what I'd call a dumb slutty character. I can't wait for the moment you realize one of her counter attacks in the game involves her kissing her opponent before smashing him to the ground and watch as you throw a fuss about it. [QUOTE=Shadaez;39847250] is whining about me defending a woman who made a series of videos about how the games industry is harmful somehow a good thing? and people actually do care about this! that is why she got $160k for a silly video series![/QUOTE] People need to care about more important things then.

[QUOTE=Bathtub;39847311]i like how the comments and ratings are disabled[/QUOTE] not surprising after the vitriolic and misogynistic backlash she received for committing the crime of trying to criticize video games.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;39847250]yes catwoman in a skin-tight vinyl outfit is a good female character[/QUOTE] isn't that an example of what she's against? just seeing female characters as sex objects?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;39847324]not surprising after the vitriolic and misogynistic backlash she received for committing the crime of trying to criticize video games.[/QUOTE] If you are not going to take on the opinion of anyone why even bother making videos in the first place