Tropes vs Women in Video Games - Damsel in Distress - General

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;39847346]If you are not going to take on the opinion of anyone why even bother making videos in the first place[/QUOTE] internet comments are not an incredibly valid form of opinion, in my opinion. if people want to genuinely criticize her analysis, and there is plenty to criticize, they should do video responses or articles. i definitely think anita should take into account valid criticism of her analysis and use it to refine her methodology, but youtube comments are not going to facilitate valid criticism.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39846994]Why is gender an issue now? And why wouldnt it be sexist against men? Now Luigi would be portrayed as a weak person since hes getting captured all the time now, he is now a damsels in distress and property of bowser and Mario is now saving his property, as put by Anita. Or does sexism not affect men?[/QUOTE] Because then there would be men in different roles. The problem isn't that there are women in distress, the problem is that most of the time there are only women in distress, and that's the only role they get most of the time (that or some eye-candy fan-service role, not created to be an actual character with a real story, but just as a pair of boobs and legs that happens to have an excuse slapped on as to why she's in the game). If there was a game where women were the only ones doing anything, and the only guy was some meathead too busy masturbating to be of any use and too busy thinking of boobs and sports to figure anything out, then that game would be sexist towards men. (Although I have a feeling that even in this case, it would most likely be a satire of sexism in games, being deliberately sexist to show how absurd sexism in games is.) As for the people saying "oh, there are other issues, like starving children in Africa and more serious cases of sexism, so you shouldn't be supporting this": you guys [I]do[/I] know that you can support more than one thing at a time, right? "She doesn't offer any suggestions": she [I]fucking says[/I] to give women more roles in games than simply "oh no this woman has been captured, go save her (and maybe you'll get her to fall in love with you too wink wink)". She also notes that when women are captured in games, they're almost always completely helpless until the hero comes along and saves the day, but whenever guys get captured in games, they almost always manage to free themselves. "She disabled comments!": You and I both know that 99.9% of the comments in the video would be "ANITA IS A CUNT" and "ANITA SHOULD GET RAPED" and "ANITA SHOULD DIE IN A GUTTER THAT STUPID BITCH". I mean, you're putting together the already horrendous quality of youtube comments with the vitriolic responses male gamers have to women playing, let alone [I]criticizing[/I], games.

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;39841818]there's not a single point in the game where you need to rescue citra there's not even a single point where citra is in danger at all, except for [sp]getting stabbed accidentally[/sp] in one of the endings[/QUOTE] except her entire way of life and culture is under threat because she can't do shit at all until a white man comes and saves the day

[QUOTE=Last or First;39847386]"She disabled comments!": You and I both know that 99.9% of the comments in the video would be "ANITA IS A CUNT" and "ANITA SHOULD GET RAPED" and "ANITA SHOULD DIE IN A GUTTER THAT STUPID BITCH". I mean, you're putting together the already horrendous quality of youtube comments with the vitriolic responses male gamers have to women playing, let alone [I]criticizing[/I], games.[/QUOTE] but the issue here is she ignores legitimate criticism and cherrypicks comments to use as 'examples'

[QUOTE=bunnyspy1;39847426]but the issue here is she ignores legitimate criticism and cherrypicks comments to use as 'examples'[/QUOTE] she responds to criticism, not sure what you're talking about

[QUOTE=Shadaez;39847437]she responds to criticism, not sure what you're talking about[/QUOTE] I suppose I worded that wrong by disabling comments and ratings she's effectively blocking out any criticism she could be getting. sure, people will be blindly insulting her, and that isn't right, but there will be people in there giving honest criticism.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39847095]Video games have never impacted gender culture. Not once have I or anyone I have ever talked to ever thought more of men and less of women in video games.[/QUOTE] this is the biggest issue with gender discrimination and racism and anything else like that where ignorant people constantly spout "i have spoken to lots of people in my life and they have never admitted to being racist/homophobic/sexist/misogynist so therefore none of those issues exist and it's just academics whining" oh wow great none of the middle-class white people you have spoken to have noticed any of those issues or have admitted or realised they're a part of it. great! i guess it was all in our heads! wake up call: cultural issues are not always, especially in this day and age, overt. many people are prejudice all the time and they don't even realise it and no one else does either. [i]this is half the issue[/i]; stuff like this goes so over (or under) people so much that they don't even realise it's happening. no one is saying that the people who write/wrote games like zelda and mario are being deliberately derogatory towards women - the problem is that the games are being derogatory and the people who made them don't even realise it and most of the people who play them don't either. to me that's an even bigger issue than the vocal morons who are deliberately prejudice

[QUOTE=bunnyspy1;39847426]but the issue here is she ignores legitimate criticism and cherrypicks comments to use as 'examples'[/QUOTE] but there [I]aren't[/I] any comments to cherrypick because [I]there are no comments[/I] [QUOTE=bunnyspy1;39847458]I suppose I worded that wrong by disabling comments and ratings she's effectively blocking out any criticism she could be getting. sure, people will be blindly insulting her, and that isn't right, but there will be people in there giving honest criticism.[/QUOTE] Finding legitimate criticism in the comments the video would have would be like finding a needle in a haystack. And every piece of hay was yelling at you to get raped. (Especially since the youtube comments system fucking sucks anyway) If they have legitimate criticism besides "ANITA IS A WHORE", then they can make a response video, or a post somewhere dissecting her video.

[QUOTE=bunnyspy1;39847458]I suppose I worded that wrong by disabling comments and ratings she's effectively blocking out any criticism she could be getting. sure, people will be blindly insulting her, and that isn't right, but there will be people in there giving honest criticism.[/QUOTE] honest criticism isn't necessarily valid criticism. people might intend well, but there is no way you can comprehensively criticize her analysis in 500 characters or less. youtube comments literally CANNOT facilitate a good discussion regarding sexism because 500 characters is fucking nothing.

[QUOTE=bunnyspy1;39847458]I suppose I worded that wrong by disabling comments and ratings she's effectively blocking out any criticism she could be getting. sure, people will be blindly insulting her, and that isn't right, but there will be people in there giving honest criticism.[/QUOTE] there's plenty of places where you can critisize her though so..? honestly I feel like you'd be saying that regardless. There would be thousands upon thousands of youtube commens and she would never be able to see the good ones with legit criticism because it would be FLOODED with hate. You can comment here: [url]http://www.feministfrequency.com/2013/03/damsel-in-distress-part-1/#comments[/url] where, yes, they're moderated im sure that's some kind of censorship to you though?? you can tweet her, and if you're a backer you can post on the kickstarter - the only place that should honestly be considered, since they're the ones who paid for the thing, where she has responded

[QUOTE=Last or First;39847386]Because then there would be men in different roles. The problem isn't that there are women in distress, the problem is that most of the time there are only women in distress, and that's the only role they get most of the time (that or some eye-candy fan-service role, not created to be an actual character with a real story, but just as a pair of boobs and legs that happens to have an excuse slapped on as to why she's in the game).[/QUOTE] It's naive to think that characters in most popular series aren't devices that fill roles regardless of gender.

I don't see the issue with blocking the comments. Youtube is notorious for having some pretty nasty comments on videos, and it's not like anybody looking to criticize the video with more than just childish insults can't make a video response, or write an article/blog post about it.

but seriously i'm amazed this video has even kicked up any fuss at all over anything other than maybe the amount of money involved it was a pretty bland and safe video that discussed nothing new and it was presented flatly. who gives a fuck

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;39846948] He means if it was peach who was going to save luigi, do you even read these posts ? [/QUOTE] "Replace fucking peach with Luigi in every single Mario that has you going after Peach, is it still sexism, would this still be an issue? " uh can you read? replacing peach with luigi in mario games has mario rescuing luigi (though you'd be able to play as Peach as player two) if he meant something else maybe he should say what he meant because that's not what he said

nice that the issue is sort of in the public eye though. sort of

is mario is missing sexist? edit: rating dumb and saying IT'S SEXIST isn't an argument, just childish behavior

[QUOTE=Untouch;39847638]is mario is missing sexist? edit: rating dumb and saying IT'S SEXIST isn't an argument, just childish behavior[/QUOTE] - [QUOTE=Untouch;39846650]not even going to bother watching this tripe since I've already gotten the gist of it does she even bother to provide alternatives, or does she just complain? edit: dumb rating, taking that as a no, thanks mate, always helpful and critical[/QUOTE] Look dude you said you aren't even going to watch the video so you're just here to stir shit, just leave if you legitimately want to know if mario is missing is sexist, no it isn't. Neither are any of the mario games, literally no one said they were, stop trolling.

[QUOTE=Villein;39847564]It's naive to think that characters in most popular series aren't devices that fill roles regardless of gender.[/QUOTE] Let me describe it this way. Yes, characters are made to fill roles. It's too often that the way they chose the characters and roles and what-not was "Okay, this guy will be the hero, and he's seeking revenge because blah blah blah. This guy will the the villain, who wants to take over the world because blah blah blah. This guy will be first sidekick, who's sarcastic and fun, and this guy will be the second sidekick, who has a tragic backstory about losing his wife. This guy will be the midboss, and he secretly wants to overthrow the main villain because blah. Also, insert a chick with big tits somewhere. [I]Big[/I] tits." [QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;39847593]but seriously i'm amazed this video has even kicked up any fuss at all over anything other than maybe the amount of money involved it was a pretty bland and safe video that discussed nothing new and it was presented flatly. who gives a fuck[/QUOTE] But... but... those nasty feminazis are trying to criticize my favorite games! And that's horrible!

It seems like a big problem with certain feminists like Anita is that they cannot be pleased by anything. They complain when woman are "damsels in distress", they complain when women are capable but still have to be rescued at some point, they complain when woman are supporting characters because they're not protagonists, They complain about women in action roles because they're just "men with boobs"... Any time you point out a good woman character they will find anything they can wrong with them so that they can keep saying that there aren't enough good woman characters. I've seen people in this very topic do this. The biggest problems by far concerning sexism and misogyny are in the gaming community themselves, not the storyline and characters of the games. Those are the problems that should be focused on.

You can't control little kids, they'll attack you on whatever small thing they can attack you on. Race, sex, sexuality. Either ban them, or mute them.

There might be some objectification going on, sure you might say that. You might also say that the ones who made the game aren't culprit of sexism voluntarily, they just wrote a story made of cliches set by the culture they were born in. Oook, I guess? My explanation as an horrendously ignorant person on the matter is that, well, we care about our loved ones, and the plot needs something very simple to explain why our charachter should walk a million miles or else. Sum the two of these up and there you have the most basic videogame plot there is. Now imagine being back to a time where you couldn't explain many things in a game at all, since they were made of bunch of coloured dots.. heh, and there you have how it all started.

I watched the video yesterday and read the thread a few minutes ago. I don't get why people from both sides of an opinion are upset though. Do people not understand she asked for 6k in the Kickstarter and received more because backers felt she needed it?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;39847200]so are you saying no media can have an impact on the way genders are perceived in society or are video games particularly special?[/QUOTE] Society is a pretty big fucking thing that varys from place to place all around the world, I would say media has almost no impact on any of it. Not once in my life in any form of media have I ever heard someone say after seeing it that men/women were weaker, dumber, better, or worse. I think idiots see media portrayal and act like thats how everything works, when it couldnt be more wrong, there is a lot of angst around it.

I don't care about the contents of the videos. I just know she's a bitch because she took over $150,000 of hard-earned money for that. The film program at my school has to do projects in this sort of format for under $1,000 and the best ones look 1000x better.

[QUOTE=Last or First;39847701]Let me describe it this way. Yes, characters are made to fill roles. It's too often that the way they chose the characters and roles and what-not was "Okay, this guy will be the hero, and he's seeking revenge because blah blah blah. This guy will the the villain, who wants to take over the world because blah blah blah. This guy will be first sidekick, who's sarcastic and fun, and this guy will be the second sidekick, who has a tragic backstory about losing his wife. This guy will be the midboss, and he secretly wants to overthrow the main villain because blah. Also, insert a chick with big tits somewhere. [I]Big[/I] tits."[/quote] [img]https://goput.it/mkz.gif[/img] Men and women are both made to look appealing to the opposite sex in video games. Contrary to popular belief there is fan service for both genders. This is entertainment not a great literary work.

[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;39847717]It seems like a big problem with certain feminists like Anita is that they cannot be pleased by anything. They complain when woman are "damsels in distress", they complain when women are capable but still have to be rescued at some point, they complain when woman are supporting characters because they're not protagonists, They complain about women in action roles because they're just "men with boobs"... Any time you point out a good woman character they will find anything they can wrong with them so that they can keep saying that there aren't enough good woman characters. I've seen people in this very topic do this. The biggest problems by far concerning sexism and misogyny are in the gaming community themselves, not the storyline and characters of the games. Those are the problems that should be focused on.[/QUOTE] what people are genuinely asking for is women characters that are well developed and aren't only female for the sake of sex appeal. the fact of the matter is that women characters in movies and video games are generally underdeveloped. even the "badass" women in games and movies are done for sex appeal generally. we want more characters that are written with real motivations that aren't one dimensional or over the top for the sake of humor. let's take the bechdel test for example. there are only 3 criteria to pass the bechdel test: 1: there must be two named women in the movie 2: those women must talk to each other 3: they must talk to each other about something other than a man. [url]http://bechdeltest.com/[/url] very few movies actually pass this test. this is especially disappointing with big name movies that often don't even have two named women in them. [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39847795]Society is a pretty big fucking thing that varys from place to place all around the world, I would say media has almost no impact on any of it. Not once in my life in any form of media have I ever heard someone say after seeing it that men/women were weaker, dumber, better, or worse. I think idiots see media portrayal and act like thats how everything works, when it couldnt be more wrong, there is a lot of angst around it.[/QUOTE] so then what do you think impacts culture and misogyny in culture? [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] do you think it is inherent?

I thought the video was quite fair. What I would like to know is her position of what should be done about the Damsel plot, whether its something she wants to ban/remove or is simply just saying its sexism because right now I think shes just explaining the obvious.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;39847814] so then what do you think impacts culture and misogyny in culture? [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] do you think it is inherent?[/QUOTE] Probably the way people are brought up in there lives. You cant act like society is 1 collective thing, the normal in a place like the USA can be extremely different from just state to state, even more so to country to country.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39847867]Probably the way people are brought up in there lives. You cant act like society is 1 collective thing, the normal in a place like the USA can be extremely different from just state to state, even more so to country to country.[/QUOTE] so in a day and age when people are brought up with video games, movies, and television shows, movies, video games, and television shows can have no impact on culture?

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39847795]I would say media has almost no impact on any of it.[/QUOTE] lmao wow [quote]Not once in my life in any form of media have I ever heard someone say after seeing it that men/women were weaker, dumber, better, or worse.[/quote] [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1252259&p=39847482&viewfull=1#post39847482"]read my post[/URL]