Tropes vs Women in Video Games - Damsel in Distress - General

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;39854841]Its not so much she didnt ask for it, its that people are angry because no one knows how you can spend $150,000 on 12 part series. We never get to see the money, and this isnt even just an issue with Anita, its a problem with kickstarter as a whole. Whats to stop her from spend lets say only $12,000 in total for this whole series. So where does all the other money go? Thats why people are mad about it.[/QUOTE] On the other hand, look at it from this perspective: You want to make a video series, detail what the series is going to be about down to the individual videos, and display your previous works. Suddenly, through crowdfunding, you make over $150,000. What is she supposed to do? Invest in hiring special effects artists? Make CGI skits? She is simply making documentary-style videos about female roles in video games and pop culture as a whole. She probably doesn't need $150,000, but because the way crowdfunding works, that's how much money she got.

$150,000 for a shitty video i wish i could make $150,000 doing nothing but stating the obvious

[QUOTE=radiomonster;39855198]$150,000 for a shitty video i wish i could make $150,000 doing nothing but stating the obvious[/QUOTE] Do it.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;39855161]On the other hand, look at it from this perspective: You want to make a video series, detail what the series is going to be about down to the individual videos, and display your previous works. Suddenly, through crowdfunding, you make over $150,000. What is she supposed to do? Invest in hiring special effects artists? Make CGI skits? She is simply making documentary-style videos about female roles in video games and pop culture as a whole. She probably doesn't need $150,000, but because the way crowdfunding works, that's how much money she got.[/QUOTE] I hope that she donates the leftover money to a Charity and shows proof of doing so to protect her and disencourage people from attacking and proclaiming she's hoarding the money. I hope she does.

making the kickstarter brb

[QUOTE=Keyblockor;39855378]I hope that she donates the leftover money to a Charity and shows proof of doing so to protect her and disencourage people from attacking and proclaiming she's hoarding the money. I hope she does.[/QUOTE] She won't.

[QUOTE=Keyblockor;39855378]I hope that she donates the leftover money to a Charity and shows proof of doing so to protect her and disencourage people from attacking and proclaiming she's hoarding the money. I hope she does.[/QUOTE] It'd be nice but she owes it to nobody. [editline]9th March 2013[/editline] Least of all her critics.

[QUOTE=Keyblockor;39855378]I hope that she donates the leftover money to a Charity and shows proof of doing so to protect her and disencourage people from attacking and proclaiming she's hoarding the money. I hope she does.[/QUOTE] It's her money. As long as she delivers the promised 12 videos, she can do whatever she wants with it.

[QUOTE=Jellyman;39855574]It's her money. As long as she delivers the promised 12 videos, she can do whatever she wants with it.[/QUOTE] And when are we gonna see the next video? My bet is around 2016.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;39853503]you really do believe in this patriarchy bullshit, don't you? well at least i got a response rather than "you're stupid, grow up" like every other one of your posts. responding to every one of your points would be long and arduous so i'll cut to the core of it. i'm more than aware of how society is shaped and despite most of your statistics being from completely different societies, there are obvious [url=http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-04/female-graduate-pay-gap-doubles/4452348]real issues[/url] other than petty shit in video games, the cause of these issues is where we differ. your claim is that white males are the ones shaping it whether intentionally or unintentionally, according to their views, that they are the reason for all of this misogyny whether directly or indirectly, which is complete garbage. the self esteem issue is a complex one with many root causes through media and the beauty industry which is pretty diverse, but you know it's really the fault of white males and the women they brainwashed. there are anthropological and biological reasons ranging from differences in [url=http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/01/050121100142.htm]brain structure[/url] to maternal bonding to women just not being physical as strong, but none of that matters because the axiom of equality doesn't take into account any actual differences.if you want to get specific there's even enough sexism within the african american community that they formed their own [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_feminism]black feminism[/url], but it doesn't really matter if they're white or not, it's still all males oppressing women. even when no-one influences anything one way or the other and it's just the inertia of a society barely out of worse days, it's still white men perpetuating it because they're not doing enough to stamp out sexism and bring things to the horribly ambiguous equal that you define. white people are the majority in western countries and with men obviously influencing a lot, it makes a nice target to blame all your issues on, but it's bullshit. gender inequality is a complex issue, particularly in how you define equality, and pushing the blame on any one person or group for something in the entirety of society is simplistic crap. there are actual issues that you won't make go away by policing everyone who might perpetuate something you disagree with. if you're really interested in fixing something, learn why it actually occurs and how it is possible to change it rather than vilification and using the utter stupidity of the patriarchy concept.[/QUOTE] I would not say they are the reason for all misogyny, but in our society, they are the ones who help perpetuate it. Despite the fashion and make up industries being seen as women dominated, men, most of whom are white, still lead these companies and direct their efforts towards marketing the ideals of a skinny, white, and submissive woman. Some might do it on purpose because that is how they think women should be, such as the head of American Apparel, who is notable in his being a huge douchebag, but others may simply do it because it makes them the most money, contributing to the image without meaning to. The patriarchy is not some dumb bullshit conspiracy theory. It obviously sounds like one when you use the word, as if there was a secret illuminati like council of men in a room deciding how to promote women's inequality, but the word refers to more subtle forces continuing tropes of inequality that have existed for centuries. It is not that men in power are trying to find new ways to oppress women, it is that society and those who control it benefit the most from keeping things the same, and the same happens to be a society in which we appeal to a man's strength but to a woman's sexuality to judge them. I am glad you are somewhat aware of the issues of pay gaps, etc, but being an ally to feminism does not entail cherry picking the issues you want to stand behind. While combating pay gaps is more important in the short term than fixing the video game industry in terms of their stories and characters, both do need to eventually be fixed. In fact, and this may sound farfetched, but fixing all the tropes about women's roles in stories and societies may make people treat them better, and actually not try to, or accidentally, pay them less than men. That is what videos like this are about: the hope that solving little things like women used as objectives in video games will make the players less likely to be assholes to women, explicitly (get in the kitchen!) or implicitly (condemning "radical feminism", which does not exist, or choosing a guy over a girl for a job without realizing it). The little things can turn into big things, especially when you factor in the fact that many kids are growing up with these types of stories, and that these tropes can easily get acculturated into them. Once again, not to sound like an asshole, all of this is clear from an academic standpoint. The combination of all the problems that women face in this society can easily be defined by a society in which the heads of most media corporations and departments in governments, the most respected creative writers, etc, ie the so called "heads" of societies, are male, and continue to push a vision of women and men having to act a certain kind of way. People always underestimate the power of society and the way it forces everyone living in it to think a certain way. If we were all raised to think that women should be stronger than men, and that men should work at home, we would have found all sorts of ways to justify that, and we would have video games in which strong women save men from the bad guys. So what we need to do is raise awareness of how we can make the video game industry better in terms of equality for women, minorities, and LGBT groups, and then start scholarships for women in writing and coding games, as well as managing the business side of it. Before, women were not in the industry because only guys played video games, and that still influences how many women want to get into it. There is still a notion that video games are for guys only, and that notion needs to be corrected. After that, the only way we can encourage women to get into the gaming industry and become more active in the video gaming community is to not respond like assholes every time a video like things comes around. I made my little sister promise not to reveal that she is a girl when she plays Team Fortress 2, despite the fact that many here would say that it is a more friendly atmosphere than, say, xbox live. I told my older sister about this, and it turns out she stopped playing it. She told me that, as soon as she said something, the entire server swarmed over her, and started to say that the fact she was not doing well (it was her 5th or so time playing) meant that she was only playing to get a guys attention. All she was doing was trying to play a game when she was harassed. My older sister also wanted to get a job in programming, but dropped her third major, COmputer Science, after being constantly harangued by her all male classmates. While many structural reasons exist for why women are not in management positions in the video game industry (the notion that games are for guys, and the fact that entrenched companies started out nearly all male), what is really holding us back from equality in this industry alone is the fact that we tend to act like dicks around women. I mean, just look at some of the initial comments in this thread. Anyway, I know a lot of you arguing with me mean well, but it is your attitude that led to my sister giving up an entire area of interest of hers, and keeping with more "feminine things". When a girl sees a video that simply shows that plenty of video games use the damsel trope get panned like this by a bunch of guys who think it is not a real issue, it is not exactly encouraging to her. I will just conclude by saying that there should never have been such a harsh and negative reaction to this video, and the discussions prompted should not have even happened, considering how simple her point is. [editline]9th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Keyblockor;39855378]I hope that she donates the leftover money to a Charity and shows proof of doing so to protect her and disencourage people from attacking and proclaiming she's hoarding the money. I hope she does.[/QUOTE] If I gave her money to make these videos (I wish I did), I would be pissed if she gave a large amount of it away to charity. She should at least do something related to video game feminism.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;39853503]you really do believe in this patriarchy bullshit, don't you? well at least i got a response rather than "you're stupid, grow up" like every other one of your posts. responding to every one of your points would be long and arduous so i'll cut to the core of it. i'm more than aware of how society is shaped and despite most of your statistics being from completely different societies, there are obvious [url=http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-04/female-graduate-pay-gap-doubles/4452348]real issues[/url] other than petty shit in video games, the cause of these issues is where we differ. your claim is that white males are the ones shaping it whether intentionally or unintentionally, according to their views, that they are the reason for all of this misogyny whether directly or indirectly, which is complete garbage. the self esteem issue is a complex one with many root causes through media and the beauty industry which is pretty diverse, but you know it's really the fault of white males and the women they brainwashed. there are anthropological and biological reasons ranging from differences in [url=http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/01/050121100142.htm]brain structure[/url] to maternal bonding to women just not being physical as strong, but none of that matters because the axiom of equality doesn't take into account any actual differences.if you want to get specific there's even enough sexism within the african american community that they formed their own [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_feminism]black feminism[/url], but it doesn't really matter if they're white or not, it's still all males oppressing women. even when no-one influences anything one way or the other and it's just the inertia of a society barely out of worse days, it's still white men perpetuating it because they're not doing enough to stamp out sexism and bring things to the horribly ambiguous equal that you define. white people are the majority in western countries and with men obviously influencing a lot, it makes a nice target to blame all your issues on, but it's bullshit. gender inequality is a complex issue, particularly in how you define equality, and pushing the blame on any one person or group for something in the entirety of society is simplistic crap. there are actual issues that you won't make go away by policing everyone who might perpetuate something you disagree with. if you're really interested in fixing something, learn why it actually occurs and how it is possible to change it rather than vilification and using the utter stupidity of the patriarchy concept.[/QUOTE] since when does the "axiom of equality" not take into account gender differences? very few people claim there are no gender differences, people simply argue that these gender differences are not self-evident, there is evidence that many are culturally caused, and the ones that aren't culturally caused are definitely a lot more subtle than our society would let on.

[QUOTE=SatansSin;39835465]she even looks like a cunt you can tell by how she looks, you know? Just look at her. Don't tell me she doesn't[/QUOTE] you still didn't say you wouldn't lay with her. and don't even try to tell me you wouldn't. [editline]9th March 2013[/editline] oh... 24 pages.

I think this trope exists because in the real world women are more often victims of crimes like kidnapping, rape, robbery, etc. I don't think the developers are necessarily being misogynist, I think they are just translating some common themes from real life into their art.

But also, why can't women rest easier knowing that they are in fact stronger than men?

[QUOTE=Gekkosan;39856060]But also, why can't women rest easier knowing that they are in fact stronger than men?[/QUOTE] u wot m8?

[QUOTE=Gekkosan;39856060]But also, why can't women rest easier knowing that they are in fact stronger than men?[/QUOTE] what

maybe not in icehockey or boxing, but when it comes down to starvation and cold, women will beat men 60-0.

[QUOTE=Gekkosan;39856138]maybe not in icehockey or boxing, but when it comes down to starvation and cold, women will beat men 60-0.[/QUOTE] r u calling women fat

[QUOTE=person11;39855812]fucking excellent post[/QUOTE] I agree wholeheartedly with everything you just said. People do underestimate how much impact these things have on society and by extension the worldview of many people. [editline]h[/editline] you should all stop being rude and start making more posts like this

who is being rude [img]http://puu.sh/2eN9U[/img]

[QUOTE=person11;39855812]beautiful[/QUOTE] Seems fitting that we would have such an amazing post basically cap off this thread. Also, I just now realized how weird it is for people to simultaneously be saying "Well she's only stating the obvious, everyone knows this is a problem, so we don't need her videos" and "This isn't a problem, she's grasping at straws, so we don't need her videos". And it's really fucking stupid for people to be saying "I don't know what she wants! She's saying things about damsels in distress and female protagonists, but what does she want!?" As for "she shouldn't have disabled comments and likes!": wouldn't this be... [I]ad hominem[/I]? You know, ignoring the points of her video and focusing on something completely different? Sure, it would probably be better if she enabled them (even though we all know what the results would be), but that has nothing to do with her point. Besides, it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" thing. If she did enable them, reddit and whatnot would spam the dislike button because "omg, she criticize game" and fill the comments with death and rape threats. They would then use said amount of dislikes to say "ah, look at that like bar, a lot of people don't like her, that proves she's wrong!" "There could be legitimate criticism in the comments!" Then make a fucking blog post or response video. Don't get mad at her for refusing to dig through a haystack for a single needle. (Although, given the nature of the stuff she would be digging through, a better analogy would be [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnun8y7r8_U]digging through a gigantic pile of shit for a single Hershey's kiss.[/url]) "There's no patriarchy!" and "Ah, ah, you said 'male privilege', ah!" are basically saying "nuh-uh, men don't have it better off than women!" Which, by the way, is blatantly wrong. Being able to name less than a dozen good female characters doesn't mean that there isn't a lack of female characters. In fact, only being able to name that many proves that it's a problem. Finally, in response to "she got too much money!": [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envy]that, again, has nothing to do with the points she makes.[/url]

fuck it's really hard to agree with the people in this thread who are arguing for equality when they're making posts like this [QUOTE=Ownederd;39836115]ahahahaphphahspahokhsddsoksdpoksdaopshpkoahsahopkahkopfhsdpkosdahahopakhaopkhahpkoahpkoahpkoahahahhaahahahhahahahkahiosapahokahk no, rapists are people who have done something terribly immoral[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;39856900]fuck it's really hard to agree with the people in this thread who are arguing for equality when they're making posts like this[/QUOTE] seriously stop oppressing rapists you assholes omg [editline]9th March 2013[/editline] also stop ad homineming us

[QUOTE=Shadaez;39857127]seriously stop oppressing rapists you assholes omg [editline]9th March 2013[/editline] also stop ad homineming us[/QUOTE] He was referring to the [QUOTE]ahahahaphphahspahokhsddsoksdpoksdaopshpkoahsahopka hkopfhsdpkosdahahopakhaopkhahpkoahpkoahpkoahahahha ahahahhahahahkahiosapahokahk[/QUOTE] Unless that's Inuit for "rapists are bad" it literally contributed zero to the discussion.

[QUOTE=Broguts;39857161]Unless that's Inuit for "rapists are bad" it literally contributed zero to the discussion.[/QUOTE] I think that's actually Inuit for "Just because Roxas eats entire buckets of Sea Salt Ice Cream and watches Mean Girls whenever he's feeling sad doesn't mean that it's not sexist to call him a woman."

wow way to bring up roxas again [QUOTE=Broguts;39857161]He was referring to the Unless that's Inuit for "rapists are bad" it literally contributed zero to the discussion.[/QUOTE] laughing at someone who said rapists are oppressed doesn't detract at all, in any way, to any of our other points

[QUOTE=Shadaez;39857127]seriously stop oppressing rapists you assholes omg [editline]9th March 2013[/editline] also stop ad homineming us[/QUOTE] oppressing racists what the fuck are you talking about i'm talking about how you guys are post like arseholes, and then are probably surprised that people disagree with you and think you're a bunch of cunts what the fuck does oppressing racists have to do with this

who cares dude stop straying into territory no one is really going to care about in this thread

Girls don't play video games nearly as much or for as long as men do Most 'big' video games are created by and marketed towards a male demographic What does it meeean

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;39857271]oppressing racists what the fuck are you talking about i'm talking about how you guys are post like arseholes, and then are probably surprised that people disagree with you and think you're a bunch of cunts what the fuck does oppressing racists have to do with this[/QUOTE] rapists and really where exactly do we act like assholes? I for real do not understand this. [editline]9th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=bigbadrick;39857283]Girls don't play video games nearly as much or for as long as men do Most 'big' video games are created by and marketed towards a male demographic What does it meeean[/QUOTE] huh i wonder why they don't? also that doesn't excuse them at all for making women objects in games