Tropes vs Women in Video Games - Damsel in Distress - General

[QUOTE=zizzleplix;39836916]Since this thread is rapidly getting new comments, my severely idealistic notion of civil discussion is briefly becoming reality oh my god (even for a brief time).[/QUOTE] there is a god [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=mobrockers2;39836927]Was. It no longer is, unless you're talking about reboots of games she's already spoken about.[/QUOTE] noooo, there are plenty of games that still use such "tropes"

[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;39836942]there is a god [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] noooo, there are plenty of games that still use such "tropes"[/QUOTE] Such as? I can't remember playing a game that had a damsel in distress trope in ages.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39836914]Yeah, I have.[/QUOTE] Hadn't seen to the end when I posted this but the next episode goes on about modern games, but she's clutching at straws for her arguments when you look at it from a design perspective.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39836969]Such as? I can't remember playing a game that had a damsel in distress trope in ages.[/QUOTE] super meat boy?

[QUOTE=SatansSin;39835465]she even looks like a cunt you can tell by how she looks, you know? Just look at her. Don't tell me she doesn't[/QUOTE] Congrats on proving her point

[QUOTE=Last or First;39836799]"Oh no! The Reasonable Opinion Squad! Everyone, hide!"[/QUOTE] honestly though, it's not exactly reasonable to believe that women are being oppressed through video games. i don't know why everyone is suddenly all worked up about the topic. as i said before, these stereotypes, while understandably not being exactly fair to women, have existed for hundreds of years and probably won't change for a long while. does the rapunzel story oppress women because a woman is being locked in a tower and has to wait for a man to save her?

It's sad how everything is disabled on the youtube page. Brings to mind all the threats of physical violence and rape she got for trying to do something good. One can argue that she got too much money to justify making this, and one can argue (though the argument would not hold up) that there is no more sexism, but nobody should be suspect to the kind of treatment this person had to go through to make this series.

[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;39836997]Hadn't seen to the end when I posted this but the next episode goes on about modern games, but she's clutching at straws for her arguments when you look at it from a design perspective.[/QUOTE] I won't be surprised if the modern games episode consists of 80% nintendo reboots.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39836969]Such as? I can't remember playing a game that had a damsel in distress trope in ages.[/QUOTE] Basically anything Zelda or Mario, Far Cry 3 to a minor extent

far cry 3 imo did a very good job subverting the "white male liberator trope" particularly with the bad ending. most people didn't get that out of it but to me it was a very clear message and in post-release interviews the devs made it very clear they intended this to be a major part of the game's story

[QUOTE=Zeke129;39837020]Basically anything Zelda or Mario, Far Cry 3 to a minor extent[/QUOTE] Bullshit Farcry 3. Sure you save 2 off your friends who are female but you save 2 more who are male. The ruler of the entire fucking island (sorta) is a female.

[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;39837001]super meat boy?[/QUOTE] If you think super meat boy uses a damsel in distress trope you do not understand the characters. Watch indie game the movie, and you'll see why.

[QUOTE=Shortyish;39837015]honestly though, it's not exactly reasonable to believe that women are being oppressed through video games. i don't know why everyone is suddenly all worked up about the topic. as i said before, these stereotypes, while understandably not being exactly fair to women, have existed for hundreds of years and probably won't change for a long while. does the rapunzel story oppress women because a woman is being locked in a tower and has to wait for a man to save her?[/QUOTE] slavery was around for a long time as well. you shouldn't take that sort of attitude or nothing will ever change. [editline]8th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=mobrockers2;39837042]If you think super meat boy uses a damsel in distress trope you do not understand the characters.[/QUOTE] I didn't play the game lol I just know that at the end of every level the guy "saves" the girl, no?

[QUOTE=Butthurter;39836966]she means that marketing-wise, those "some" are similarly in behavior to the same "some" that would express their disdain for games nowadays just being america vs brown people and still buy battlefield 3/call of duty despite it aka putting up with it[/QUOTE] Except that's a bit more noticeable, people would generally be a bit more oblivious to the damsel trope being objectifying I agree with you though

I thought the video was pretty interesting and good, I can't wait to see the video with the modern examples of the trope.

[QUOTE=Lua Laputa;39836922]Yeah I agree with her pretty much but there's something about it that doesn't quite hit the nail on the head, but i'm not sure what One thing I do disagree with though is her claim that the trope is just there to virtually live out a young males power-fantasy. Some guys and girls think nothing of it and just want to play the game[/QUOTE] It's mostly just a result of lazy writing. There's a protagonist and he's male, and they need to give him some sort of motivation. With an excuse plot, it usually comes down to saving the world, or saving a love interest. Often it's saving a princess, the presidents daughter, etc. even if it's not a love interest. Although the damsel in distress may have been a product of sexism in its time when the trope originated a long time ago, its use is not a reflection of modern day sexism, it's simply writers using a common trope without thinking about it, the same way they'd use any other common trope. If you want to discuss sexism or gender rights in media, the damsel in distress isn't a very good place to start in my opinion, unless the woman is supposed to be a "prize" for the male for defeating the enemy, in which it more clearly represents objectification of women; you don't see that very often in modern media though.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;39837012]Congrats on proving her point[/QUOTE] Yeah I agree, the kinds of comments like SatansSin's comment against Anita is just unnecessary, overly hateful, and don't bring anything to the discussion. But on the other hand it doesn't mean Anita's points can't be critiqued.

[QUOTE=zizzleplix;39837080]Yeah I agree, the kinds of comments like SatansSin's comment against Anita is just unnecessary and overly hateful. But on the other hand it doesn't mean Anita can't be critiqued.[/QUOTE] there's a reason people hate her, and it's not because she's a woman.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39837042]If you think super meat boy uses a damsel in distress trope you do not understand the characters. Watch indie game the movie, and you'll see why.[/QUOTE] uhh what I own at that game and it's clearly uses the damsel in distress trope. I don't see how you could think it's not.

[QUOTE=JustGman;39837090]there's a reason people hate her, and it's not because she's a woman.[/QUOTE] yeah they don't call her a "cunt that's asking for it" because she's a woman

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39836927]Was. It no longer is, unless you're talking about reboots of games she's already spoken about.[/QUOTE] Even though she'll address that claim in the next video, the trope isn't entirely eradicated yet. Splinter Cell Conviction, Hotline Miami, more recently Far Cry 3. No, it didn't alter my entire perception of those games when I saw them, but they still exist.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;39837020]Basically anything Zelda or Mario, Far Cry 3 to a minor extent[/QUOTE] I don't agree on far cry 3, but zelda and mario are, as I said, basically reboots of the same IP over and over again. I should clarify, when I say modern game, I mean new IP, because using a game based on a previous version which had such tropes in it isn't exactly a fair way to see if there's progression, as those new versions of the same game are bound to contain the same tropes, otherwise they wouldn't fit in the series. Also, not even she thinks zelda is all that bad.

[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;39836891]She didn't necessarily talk about the games being sexist, just she discussed how the trope was constantly overused.[/QUOTE] I'd love to see her work as a writer. And not get anything sold ever.

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Well color me surprised, that was actually a lot more fair and balanced than I expected back then. I'm glad she assumed a somewhat academic approach to the presentation and really stuck to the job of pointing out overused tropes in a matter-of-fact way without shitting on the games for featuring them. Not intending to damn with faint praise, but I guess this is is indeed a good awareness-creator of overused tropes. I still don't see what those 150k was needed for but that was a pretty good vid. I'm curious as to see her examples of subversion of the trope (I wonder if some Valve game will make it in there; I seem to remember Portal 2 flashing by in the kickstarter campaign video).

[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;39836834]This might have been brought up but has anyone noticed how she only refers to games made 10+ years ago?[/QUOTE] she needs to save money so she's using older games what with the $160,000 dollars she was given for it can't believe anyone would put down money for this woman to talk behind a greenscreen and use bad video effects

[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;39837114]Even though she'll address that claim in the next video, the trope isn't entirely eradicated yet. Splinter Cell Conviction, Hotline Miami, more recently Far Cry 3. No, it didn't alter my entire perception of those games when I saw them, but they still exist.[/QUOTE] Bullshit Farcry 3. Sure you save 2 off your friends who are female but you save 2 more who are male. The ruler of the entire fucking island (sorta) is a female.

[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;39837071]It's mostly just a result of lazy writing. There's a protagonist and he's male, and they need to give him some sort of motivation. With an excuse plot, it usually comes down to saving the world, or saving a love interest. Often it's saving a princess, the presidents daughter, etc. even if it's not a love interest. Although the damsel in distress may have been a product of sexism in its time when the trope originated a long time ago, its use is not a reflection of modern day sexism, it's simply writers using a common trope without thinking about it, the same way they'd use any other common trope. If you want to discuss sexism or gender rights in media, the damsel in distress isn't a very good place to start in my opinion, unless the woman is supposed to be a "prize" for the male for defeating the enemy, in which it more clearly represents objectification of women; you don't see that very often in modern media though.[/QUOTE] Yeah, pretty much, it's just a plot device, it can be used in good ways but also very badly (which is often the case, sadly). It's only as sexist as you make it.

[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;39837114]Even though she'll address that claim in the next video, the trope isn't entirely eradicated yet. Splinter Cell Conviction, Hotline Miami, more recently Far Cry 3. No, it didn't alter my entire perception of those games when I saw them, but they still exist.[/QUOTE] What. Splinter cell conviction is based around sam wanting revenge for his daughters death for the most part.

[QUOTE=Im Crimson;39837157]Well color me surprised, that was actually a lot more fair and balanced than I expected back then. I'm glad she assumed a somewhat academic approach to the presentation and really stuck to the job of pointing out overused tropes in a matter-of-fact way. I still don't see what those 150k was needed for but that was a pretty good vid. I'm curious as to see her examples of subversion of the trope (I wonder if some Valve game will make it in there; I seem to remember Portal 2 flashing by in the kickstarter campaign video).[/QUOTE] 9k was needed i believe