[QUOTE=slothman;33721109]My proof? Seriously? Try Darwins theory of evolution and the fact that sex and sexual attraction has no purpose other than to reproduce. Can gays reproduce?
This is supposed to be a debate. I guess you just can't argue with that.[/QUOTE]
Humans are not just for reproduction.
that's like saying people without reproductive organs should be dealt with.
[QUOTE=slothman;33721109]
This is supposed to be a debate. I guess you just can't argue with that.[/QUOTE]
no it's just this argument has been ridiculed and disproven so many times in this thread that I've given up trying
Sorry if you think it has, but i doubt you can truly prove it wrong, i don't feel like reading 20 pages.
Nugget states a good point. My main argument for not agreeing with homosexuality was that it makes life harder, and that homosexuality is most likely not caused by nature or genetics because it serves no purpose for the species.
Also slothman, if homosexuality isn't natural, then what the fuck IS natural these days?
also there's extensive proof of homosexuality in animals so it hardly goes against nature
[editline]14th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;33721196]Also slothman, if homosexuality isn't natural, then what the fuck IS natural these days?[/QUOTE]
this too, the concept of 'natural' is bullshit when we can fly through the air in metal machines
[editline]14th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=slothman;33721184]Sorry if you think it has, but i doubt you can truly prove it wrong, i don't feel like reading 20 pages.
.[/QUOTE]
that's your problem not mine son
[QUOTE=slothman;33720768]Firstly, I'm not religious and i have not been influenced on this matter in anyway by my parents or anyone, in fact my parents have told me multiple times that they have nothing against homosexuals. I'm not gay.
What's wrong with them? The fact that they go against nature. It's so much more simple when one sex is only interested in the opposite and it actually serves a purpose: to reproduce and pass on genetics.
Homosexuality is just a defect caused by bad experiences and should be fixed with counseling. The fact that we were MEANT to be heterosexual is not debatable, we are by nature attracted to the opposite sex so we can reproduce and this can only mean that homosexuals have something wrong with them usually caused by something that happened in their past. Either that or they can't get a girl.
I don't hate homosexuals, i just think that being homosexual is wrong and should be fixed like any other mental illness. I don't care if you think that sounds harsh.[/QUOTE]
People born without the ability to reproduce are unnatural then?
For example, homosexuality in giraffes is nearly as common as heterosexuality.
Not natural? Good one.
Just because other animals do the same thing doesn't mean that it is natural.
[QUOTE]People born without the ability to reproduce are unnatural then? [/QUOTE]
already been brought up.
and if you think by natural i mean walking around naked without shoes in a forest then you're an idiot. I mean naturally occurring. As in if nobody did anything wrong to each other in the world, then most likely nobody would be homosexual, or definitely a lot less.
[QUOTE=slothman;33721355]Just because other animals do the same thing doesn't mean that it is natural.
already been brought up.
and if you think by natural i mean walking around naked without shoes in a forest then you're an idiot. I mean naturally occurring. As in if nobody did anything wrong to each other in the world, then most likely nobody would be homosexual, or definitely a lot less.[/QUOTE]
but animals are gay and it occurs naturally there, noone's done anything wrong in that situation
How do you know it is NOT natural?
In the end, people just want to love who they love, people trying to stop that by calling it unnatural is like being forced to reproduce because it is 'supposedly' natural.
In my eyes, if you take action, it's natural by your standards.
I don't, no one can ever know that for sure. All i know is that there is more evidence that it isn't. I should add i if i meet a gay person, I'm fine with them as long as they don't try to bring me into their sexuality and as always if they're not annoying or generally bad people. Which IMO gay people tend to be more annoying in general.
I'm curious, what sexuality are you people?
If they're born gay isn't that natural?
And you can't really "convert" anyone to the gay side.
[QUOTE=slothman;33721688]I don't, no one can ever know that for sure. All i know is that there is more evidence that it isn't. I should add i if i meet a gay person, I'm fine with them as long as they don't try to bring me into their sexuality and as always if they're not annoying or generally bad people. Which IMO gay people tend to be more annoying in general.
I'm curious, what sexuality are you people?[/QUOTE]
That post was the definition of homophobia.
[editline]14th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=dergon;33721733]If they're born gay isn't that natural?
And you can't really "convert" anyone to the gay side.[/QUOTE]
Yep, those Christian camps that convert don't convert, they just teach people to be ashamed of it, sad really.
Nobody is born gay, my post was made up of opinions based on facts. That is the point of a debate is it not?
[QUOTE=slothman;33721688]...I'm fine with them as long as they don't try to bring me into their sexuality.. [/QUOTE]
For me this is pretty much always a sign of one's insecurity regarding their sexuality.
I may be wrong but it's just how it feels like to me.
[QUOTE]For me this is pretty much always a sign of one's insecurity regarding their sexuality.
I may be wrong but it's just how it feels like to me. [/QUOTE]
I'm not insecure. I understand why you'd think that but i know for sure I'm heterosexual. I hope you don't want proof.
Recently someone posted a pretty homophobic status on facebook against gay marriage. He actually said something like "I'm a horny cunt because I'm not a faggot. Fuck gay marriage" Which doesn't even make sense in the first place.
I posted saying that he was an idiot and that he was incredibly ignorant and disrespectful, and his girlfriend starting talking to me telling me to remove it or he will bash me because he is part of an Asian gang or some shit. Which I'm pretty sure is true and I don't want to be messing with that.
People like that make me sick.
I think this slothman guy is just a troll, nobody could be that stupid.
[QUOTE=slothman;33721355]
and if you think by natural i mean walking around naked without shoes in a forest then you're an idiot. I mean naturally occurring. As in if nobody did anything wrong to each other in the world, then most likely nobody would be homosexual, or definitely a lot less.[/QUOTE]
this will be the dumbest thing i've read all week
nobody suggested the first part about the definition of natural
you are not basing anything on fact but rather rash speculation
[QUOTE=slothman;33720768]Firstly, I'm not religious and i have not been influenced on this matter in anyway by my parents or anyone, in fact my parents have told me multiple times that they have nothing against homosexuals. I'm not gay.
What's wrong with them? The fact that they go against nature. It's so much more simple when one sex is only interested in the opposite and it actually serves a purpose: to reproduce and pass on genetics.[/quote]
Not everyone wants to reproduce. You're also appealing to a naturalistic fallacy: unnatural =/= bad.
[quote]Homosexuality is just a defect caused by bad experiences and should be fixed with counseling.[/quote]
My childhood was for the most part awesome, and I turned out queerer than a three dollar bill. Where is your proof of this?
[quote]
The fact that we were MEANT to be heterosexual is not debatable, we are by nature attracted to the opposite sex so we can reproduce and this can only mean that homosexuals have something wrong with them usually caused by something that happened in their past.
[/quote]
We aren't entirely by nature attracted to the opposite sex because... many people are by nature attracted to the same or both sexes, and it isn't 100% for reproduction. Human beings have a need for companionship, sexuality and caring, and that comes in many forms, be it friendships, family relationships, purely sexual relationships ,or romantic ones.
[quote]
Either that or they can't get a girl.
[/quote]
Are you kidding? Are you completely unaware of the stereotype of gay guys being ironically perfect for women? The very nature of being gay causes one a great deal of internalization and personal analysis, and this has been proven to lead to greater interpersonal skills. I'd also like to point out the fact that I've personally been sexually and romantically involved with guys whilst girls were attempting to court me, and I'm now in a relationship with a girl who was essentially in the same situation as I was (lesbian) and we found a mutual attraction to each other.
That isn't even a legitimate argument, it's just astoundingly ignorant. What happened in your life that so astoundingly quashed your critical thinking?
[quote]My proof? Seriously? Try Darwins theory of evolution and the fact that sex and sexual attraction has no purpose other than to reproduce. Can gays reproduce?
[/quote]
It actually does. There is far more to sexuality than simply reproduction. One such instance is that it produces strong physical bonds between human beings. It's a physical need for release, as there are numerous chemicals in the brain that find their release during sexual activity. Just like sleeping or eating, it is something people simply -need- to do. Furthermore, by this standard of argument are you also then arguing against sex for pleasure? We naturally developed means to prevent conception through various technologies; does this mean that it too is wrong?
[quote]
and if you think by natural i mean walking around naked without shoes in a forest then you're an idiot. I mean naturally occurring. As in if nobody did anything wrong to each other in the world, then most likely nobody would be homosexual, or definitely a lot less.
[/quote]
Again, what exactly is your proof (or your reasoning as to why no proof is an acceptable basis for argument) that homosexuality is caused by maleficent behaviour?
[quote]I don't,[/quote]
Then stop trying to argue something that you've now admitted you have no idea what you're talking about.
[quote]
no one can ever know that for sure. All i know is that there is more evidence that it isn't.[/quote]
Funny that all of those educated people who spend their lives researching this kind of thing disagree with you.
[quote]Nobody is born gay, my post was made up of opinions based on facts. That is the point of a debate is it not?[/quote]
The point of a debate is to exchange well-reasoned beliefs or theories that contend or contradict each other. You're contradicting things based on opinions that have no grounding in reality.
[quote]
I should add i if i meet a gay person, I'm fine with them as long as they don't try to bring me into their sexuality[/quote]
Yeah, because this happens all the time. I'm actually on the board that organizes our recruitment drives. -_-
[quote]and as always if they're not annoying or generally bad people.[/quote]
[citation needed]
On what basis? On the contrary, most people I know find gays to be more understanding and nice people as we've had to put up with all of this shit on top of having to understand why our natural impulses are considered detrimental to society, when they're so very clearly not.
[quote]Which IMO gay people tend to be more annoying in general.[/quote]
How does this statement have any place in a debate? Seriously, what kind of reasoning did you trick yourself with to post this?
[quote]
I'm curious, what sexuality are you people?[/quote]
Queer. I've got different kinds of romantic attractions to both sexes, and am sexually attracted to men and women in diverse ways. I dislike the term bisexual because it implies the attractions are the same, which they're not.
[quote]
I don't hate homosexuals[/quote]
See, this statement falls on it's ass as soon as you say:
[quote]i just think that being homosexual is wrong[/quote]
I don't hate the British, but I think being British is wrong. Do you see the contradiction there?
[quote]
and should be fixed like any other mental illness.[/quote]
It was taken off of the DSM. Please, provide me with your credentials that trump the rest of the global medical community when they've all agreed to strike down the notion that homosexuality is a mental illness.
[quote] I don't care if you think that sounds harsh.[/QUOTE]
You clearly have very little understanding of any of the facts of this issue and can't bother to be inquisitive instead of making completely baseless assumptions and sounding like an asshole. In fact, your posts are downright homophobic by their content.
I'm restricting my anger at them on the basis that I think you're legitimately ill-informed, narrow-minded, or simply unable to comprehend this concept because you've been sheltered from thinking by some external source or by the opinion of someone you look up to (like a relative, friend, or personal hero) that you're simply regurgitating the opinions of without actually understanding their basis.
Try asking legitimate questions and people who understand what they're talking about might be kind enough to provide you with some level of understanding. I'm not trying to be mean here, I just see that you're basing an opinion off of flawed reasoning and I'm more than willing to help you come to a better understanding.
This video should also clear some things up, if my dismantling of your arguments didn't entirely drive the point home to you.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jrh8VVwMI4[/media]
[QUOTE=slothman;33721184]Sorry if you think it has, but i doubt you can truly prove it wrong, i don't feel like reading 20 pages.[/QUOTE]
well then dont post.
[editline]14th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=slothman;33721810]Nobody is born gay, my post was made up of opinions based on facts. That is the point of a debate is it not?[/QUOTE]
you didn't post any of those facts (because there aren't any which prove homosexuality is a choice)
[QUOTE=slothman;33721355]Just because other animals do the same thing doesn't mean that it is natural.
already been brought up.
and if you think by natural i mean walking around naked without shoes in a forest then you're an idiot. I mean naturally occurring. As in if nobody did anything wrong to each other in the world, then most likely nobody would be homosexual, or definitely a lot less.[/QUOTE]
"if nobody did anything wrong to each other"? What, do you think gayness is the result of bullying?
[QUOTE=play4ever;33720828]Dunno, my man instincts says EW, NO! GTFO..
- Regards, Brain[/QUOTE]
My man instincts say EW, NO! GTFO when girls kiss me, offer me sex and well, the drunk one that took her top off and put my hand on her boob. Yuck. Nasty. "Ew. No! GTFO" etc.
And for the record, she was trying to get with me and too was confused by the fact I really wasn't attracted.
[QUOTE=slothman;33721355]Just because other animals do the same thing doesn't mean that it is natural.
already been brought up.
and if you think by natural i mean walking around naked without shoes in a forest then you're an idiot. I mean naturally occurring. As in if nobody did anything wrong to each other in the world, then most likely nobody would be homosexual, or definitely a lot less.[/QUOTE]
The argument of homosexuality being unnatural has two major faults in it:
-The first is that it simply isn't true, many animals (organisms that are not self aware in the same way humans are, they work mostly on instinct) have homosexual partners in them, including dolphins, lions and penguins.
-Even if it was unnatural, humans simply don't function on the principles of what is or isn't natural. We can fly, we've travelled into space, we wear things that correct our vision, have mechanical legs for amputees, vaccinate ourselves against diseases (we've practically doubled our "natural" lifespan). Saying that homosexuality is bad because it's unnatural would seem like a bizzare double standard when you take that into account.
[QUOTE=slothman;33721688]I don't, no one can ever know that for sure. All i know is that there is more evidence that it isn't. I should add i if i meet a gay person, I'm fine with them as long as they don't try to bring me into their sexuality and as always if they're not annoying or generally bad people. Which IMO gay people tend to be more annoying in general.
I'm curious, what sexuality are you people?[/QUOTE]
So you don't want us gay people to treat you like you treat women?
[QUOTE=slothman;33720768]Firstly, I'm not religious and i have not been influenced on this matter in anyway by my parents or anyone, in fact my parents have told me multiple times that they have nothing against homosexuals. I'm not gay.
[B]Everyone is influenced by their parents[/B]
What's wrong with them? The fact that they go against nature. It's so much more simple when one sex is only interested in the opposite and it actually serves a purpose: to reproduce and pass on genetics.
[B]As said many times, homosexuality is REALLY common in nature, even more common than in humans in most species[/B]
Homosexuality is just a defect caused by bad experiences and should be fixed with counseling. The fact that we were MEANT to be heterosexual is not debatable, we are by nature attracted to the opposite sex so we can reproduce and this can only mean that homosexuals have something wrong with them usually caused by something that happened in their past. Either that or they can't get a girl.
[B]I've never had a bad experience with a girl. You bring up the word "nature" again, even though you know nothing of the animal world.
And I'm fucking covered in bitches right now[/B]
I don't hate homosexuals, i just think that being homosexual is wrong and should be fixed like any other mental illness. I don't care if you think that sounds harsh.
[B]You do hate homoexuals, or rather, you're afraid of them, because humans are afraid of what they do not understand.[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=slothman;33721184]My main argument for not agreeing with homosexuality was that it makes life harder, and that homosexuality is most likely not caused by nature or genetics because it serves no purpose for the species.[/QUOTE]
You're right, there is absolutely no reason for a socially oriented species, which can switch from r-selection to K-selection by environment, to have a balancing mechanism that can prevent the consumption of scarce resources to r-selected offspring in bad environments and serve as a backup K-selected caretaker base in a more stable environment. [URL="http://scholarworks.uno.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1018&context=econ_wp&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com%2Fscholar_url%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fscholarworks.uno.edu%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%253D1018%2526context%253Decon_wp%26sa%3DX%26scisig%3DAAGBfm2ZvDPlWHkBIiS6bSvSR6R-pkFrwg%26oi%3Dscholarr#search=%22http%3A%2F%2Fscholarworks.uno.edu%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1018%26context%3Decon_wp%22"]It's a good thing such notions have no strong academic support.[/URL]
In other news: you should never say anything involving biology again in your life.
I want to know peoples' ideas on this. Is sexual identity determined at birth or discovered over time?
I think it's, determined at birth, but you don't know till later..
I'd say it develops over time.
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