Gays - Seriously, what's wrong about them? - General

What does it matter anyways? I was about to write a post arguing why it is technically a mental disorder, but to what reason? You people arguing against this seem to thinking that if it was a mental disorder, that would mean that homosexuality is automatically a bad and morally wrong thing. Not at all. It doesn't matter what the fuck you call it, whether you call it a sexual orientation, a deviation, a mental disorder, a disease or whatever you want. It's still the same thing. [quote]It wasn't, as far as I'm aware, the psychological thing he was offended at. He was, rightfully, offended that his sexuality was compared to paedophilia, which has historically been used as a reason to oppress gay people. It also ignores that there is a massive difference between two of-age males having consensual sex, and an adult man raping a child - that is, consent.[/quote] Every god damn time. It was a pretty good comparison. All three; homosexuality, pedophilia and love/lust for inanimate objects are deviant [I](not normal) [/I]sexualities and they probably all came into existance in similar ways [I](nature & nurture)[/I]. The fact that acting on your desires are completely different for every one of them, is completely irrelevant. And when you talk about sexualities, you don't necessarily talk about the [I]act of having sex.[/I] You say that homosexuality being compared to pedophilia = gay sex being compared to child rape. What was being comparison was between [I]attraction[/I] toward men and the [I]attraction[/I] towards kids. Not between the [I]action[/I] of having sex with a man and the [I]action[/I] of raping a child. It annoys me a lot that everyone just goes batshit whenever you compare homosexuality and pedophilia. They do actually have a lot in common. The fact that having homosexuality is completely fine while having sex with a child is not, is fucking obvious. Just because there is 1 big difference does not mean there cannot be any similarities. Nobody is trying to say that homosexuality is at all like pedophilia, but sometimes it can be relevant to point out similarities. And there are similarities.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;32521550]stuff[/QUOTE] It's a deviation from our base instincts (survival and reproduction).. hardly a normal deviation from the average.

I don't care about gays, but they should stop propagating with their gay pride shit because town will get fucked up badly due the protests. Thank god police are considering to halt the parade. I don't care about them, and I don't think anyone alone cares about them, it's just that they're (hooligans) using any excuse they can to fuck shit up or when they're in the group they want to act tough. Why would anyone care if you're gay in the first place? And before you say anything, I just don't want Belgrade to be destroyed like last time parade was organized, and do note that Serbia is predominately orthodox country.

[QUOTE=Stopper;32520748]The only gays I have a problem with are the ones that keep sticking it my face that they're gay, not unlike furries or bronies.[/QUOTE]I think what pisses a lot of people off is the persecution complex and the pride stuff. Hence jokes like "fursecution". I suppose the difference is some gays experience real living persecution while furries/bronies are mostly getting trolled, but if they're not careful gays may find themselves the target of large scale trolling as well. You've gotta be careful how you present yourself on the internet these days. [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;32521723]Homosexuality was removed from the list of mental disorders in the American Psychiatric Associations DSM in 1974 because it does not necessarily inhibit a person from leading a happy, contended life or necessarily lead to any harm to the homosexual person or anyone else.[/QUOTE] This brings up two very important points that need to stop coming up (because chances are, you don't know what you're talking about and you're wrong): -Something is only a disorder if it can and does affect your ability to lead a happy life. -Being gay only affects lives because of self-inflicted religious guilt or a backwards/retarded society that attacks them. It is not an internal problem, but an external one, and that doesn't really fall into the realm of psychological disorders. Being gay may in fact be a choice for some, but I don't see a non-religious reason as to why that is harmful or wrong. I get that it is tempting to believe that being gay is a symptom of another problem, and sometimes that really is the case... but to say that all gays are gay because shit happened is quite a stretch.

[QUOTE=Spirit_Breaker;32521945]I don't care about gays, but they should stop propagating with their gay pride shit because town will get fucked up badly due the protests. Thank god police are considering to halt the parade. I don't care about them, and I don't think anyone alone cares about them, it's just that they're (hooligans) using any excuse they can to fuck shit up or when they're in the group they want to act tough. Why would anyone care if you're gay in the first place? And before you say anything, I just don't want Belgrade to be destroyed like last time parade was organized, and do note that Serbia is predominately orthodox country.[/QUOTE] If it gets so out of hand that they end up causing more trouble, maybe they should try a different strategy with their protesting. There's still way too much discrimination for the them to sit quitely and do nothing about it though. Ideally there shouldn't be anything special about being gay, but they do need to push in the other direction to make that a reality.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;32521865]no you couldn't because those are garbage arguments. [/quote] How? Harm isn't some kind of universally agreed upon principle. [quote] ok i am going to beat the hell out of you in this thread when i get home.[/QUOTE] Please move to the next level in your formal education and immerse yourself in Foucault. [quote]The most striking example of this mode of Foucault's thought is his first major work, The History of Madness in the Classical Age (1961). This book originated in Foucault's academic study of psychology (a licence de psychologie in 1949 and a diplome de psycho-pathologie in 1952) and his work in a Parisian mental hospital, but it was mainly written during his post-graduate Wanderjahren (1955–59) through a succession of diplomatic/educational posts in Sweden, Germany, and Poland. A study of the emergence of the modern concept of “mental illness” in Europe, The History of Madness is formed from both Foucault's extensive archival work and his intense anger at what he saw as the moral hypocrisy of modern psychiatry. Standard histories saw the nineteenth-century medical treatment of madness (developed from the reforms of Pinel in France and the Tuke brothers in England) as an enlightened liberation of the mad from the ignorance and brutality of preceding ages. But, according to Foucault, the new idea that the mad were merely sick (“mentally” ill) and in need of medical treatment was not at all a clear improvement on earlier conceptions (e.g., the Renaissance idea that the mad were in contact with the mysterious forces of cosmic tragedy or the 17th-18th-century view of madness as a renouncing of reason). Moreover, he argued that the alleged scientific neutrality of modern medical treatments of insanity are in fact covers for controlling challenges to a conventional bourgeois morality. In short, Foucault argued that what was presented as an objective, incontrovertible scientific discovery (that madness is mental illness) was in fact the product of eminently questionable social and ethical commitments. Foucault's next history, The Birth of the Clinic (1963) can similarly be read as a critique of modern clinical medicine. But the socio-ethical critique is muted (except for a few vehement passages), presumably because there is a substantial core of objective truth in medicine (as opposed to psychiatry) and so less basis for critique. As a result The Birth of the Clinic is much closer to a standard history of science, in the tradition of Canguilhem's history of concepts. The same is true of The Order of Things, which was controversial much more for its philosophical attacks on phenomenology (and Marxism) than for its complex and nuanced critique of the human sciences. But Foucault returns with full force to social critique in Discipline and Punish.[/quote] [quote]What we now call mental illness was not always treated as a medical problem. Descriptions of the behaviors now labeled as symptomatic of mental illness or disorder were sometimes framed in quite different terms, such as possession by supernatural forces. Anthropological work in non-Western cultures suggests that there are many cases of behavior that Western psychiatry would classify as symptomatic of mental disorder, which are not seen within their own cultures as signs of mental illness (Warner, 2004, p. 173). One may even raise the question whether all other cultures even have a concept of mental illness that corresponds even approximately to the Western concept[/quote]

[QUOTE=Splarg!;32522044]If it gets so out of hand that they end up causing more trouble, maybe they should try a different strategy with their protesting. There's still way too much discrimination for the them to sit quitely and do nothing about it though. Ideally there shouldn't be anything special about being gay, but they do need to push in the other direction to make that a reality.[/QUOTE] There isn't any discrimination at all to be honest, why would anyone want to question them if they're gay or not in the first place? Then again, Serbs are somewhat highly religious people, so some old people may condemn gays. [MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-iHBM_wibs&feature=related[/MEDIA] Gay parade is like one of the only events where rival football hooligans work together.

Gays are just female minds in male bodies, period

[QUOTE=Depth08;32522315]Gays are just female minds in male bodies, period[/QUOTE] thats transexuals [editline]28th September 2011[/editline] im a little girl trapped in a 40 year old mans body LOL xD [editline]28th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=SomeRandomGuy16;32521399]Being gay is a mental disorder no matter how you look at it. But yes, they should be treated equally.[/QUOTE] while I completely think its silly to call it a 'mental disorder' when its not yes they should

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32517367]Homosexual people are just as much a person as heterosexuals, there is no just reason to discriminate against someone for their sexual orientation. [editline]27th September 2011[/editline] Because it's not a choice?[/QUOTE] My question is why can't it be a choice and what's wrong with it being one?

[QUOTE=BigOwl;32522407]My question is why can't it be a choice and what's wrong with it being one?[/QUOTE] because its the sexual ATTRACTION that is "homosexuality", not the act itself you can choose to bang a guy, you can't choose to be sexually attracted to all guys then again theres always subjecting yourself to enough gays that it 'changes' you, but thats extremely unlikely even then

because people think that people that are different from them are weird, worth making fun of, etc.

[QUOTE=J!NX;32522428]because its the sexual ATTRACTION that is "homosexuality", not the act itself you can choose to bang a guy, you can't choose to be sexually attracted to all guys then again theres always subjecting yourself to enough gays that it 'changes' you, but thats extremely unlikely even then[/QUOTE] Or doing enough drugs so that anything with a pulse is attractive, even if it is your grandmother. But, these are extreme situations.

[QUOTE=Contag;32522451]Or doing enough drugs so that anything with a pulse is attractive, even if it is your grandmother. But, these are extreme situations.[/QUOTE] Ecstasy, and lots of viagra fuck trees!

Whether it's a choice or down to biology differs on the person, I reckon. I didn't choose, but I know some people who did. I also know people who are offended if you say it's a choice, and others who'd kick up a stink if you say it's biological. I did see a documentary following studies on homosexual males, which theorized that a higher number of elder male siblings increases the chance a guy will be gay. They found it rang true quite often, actually.

I really don't think it's a choice. Why would someone chose to be hated/bullied/discriminated against for their sexuality? I can't just say "I'm attracted to women" when I'm clearly not. I can tell when a women is beautiful, gorgeous, whatever, but I don't feel physically or sexually attracted to them. Nothing I can do can change that. That's not to say that I can't have sex with a women, but I won't feel that there's any attraction there other than "getting a nut bust."

[QUOTE=TehWhale;32522543]I really don't think it's a choice. Why would someone chose to be hated/bullied/discriminated against for their sexuality? I can't just say "I'm attracted to women" when I'm clearly not. I can tell when a women is beautiful, gorgeous, whatever, but I don't feel physically or sexually attracted to them. Nothing I can do can change that. That's not to say that I can't have sex with a women, but I won't feel that there's any attraction there other than "getting a nut bust."[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=J!NX;32517928]i chose to be gay because being picked on and having stones thrown at me until near death turns me on makes my nipples soooo hardd UNNFFF FUCK HOT[/QUOTE] this is the only logical reason I can see someone becoming gay by choice even then that doesn't even work theres literally no point in choosing

[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;32519495]It isn't perfectly normal. Only 3.8% of americans are gay, that's not normal. But it's also not wrong. Pedophiles aren't any different except they have a reason to not act on their attractions.[/quote] Homosexuals are not normal because they are not a majority? What a load of tripe, gays have been prominant throughout societies for thousands of years and they are everything as usual and typical to see in a society, just because the majority of Americans are straight does not make a homosexual abnormal; seeing normal is also defined as natural I would also be more inclined to believe more so. [quote]That's the problem. Being gay [I]is[/I] abnormal, but it is NOT undesirable or worrying.[/quote] No its not. Your definition or opinion on what is normal is completely opposite to someone else's, basic philosophy, to be abnormal is to be deviating from what is 'normal' to someone else or usual to them, usually in a way that is undesirable to them. [quote]normal - The usual, average, or typical state or condition[/quote] [B]ab·nor·mal[/B] - Deviating from what is normal or usual, typically in a way that is undesirable. (abnormality) - retardation sufficient to fall outside the normal range of intelligence (abnormality) - behavior that breaches the rule or etiquette or custom or morality Your opinion on gays not being normal is completely your own, a majority does not make something abnormal. [quote]Of course they are, otherwise they wouldn't be minorities. You need to realize that when I use the word "abnormal", I don't use it to convey [B]ANY[/B] negative connotations at all. You're the one who seems to think that anything abnormal is also bad.[/quote] Then don't use that word? [quote]Only difference is that heterosexuality is actually normal[/QUOTE] Well you heard it here folks, homos are not normal because they are not 50% of the United States of Americas population. [QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;32521903]What does it matter anyways? I was about to write a post arguing why it is technically a mental disorder, but to what reason?[/quote] I'd like to see you argue against the legion of psychologists that actually state its not. [quote][i]Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality.[/i][/quote] [url]http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx[/url]

Hmm, it seems we have two different views on what "normal" and "usual" means. How can something be what usually happens, and thus the norm, if it only happens 3,8% of the time? And you dragged the word "natural" into it as well... Really I think the word "natural" and "unnatural" are complete bullshit words. And I do not agree with that definition of sexual orientation. Ugh, at this point we're just discussing semantics. And I really hate the fact that almost all the words used when it comes to sexuality are so bloody vague it doesn't even make sense. The lines between sexual orientation and mental illness is blurry, seperated only by whether or not it impairs the person's life. As I said, I was going to write out why it was [I]technically[/I] a mental disorder. And by that I mean I would define what exactly "disorder" means and go by logic. But to be honest, I agree with you, it isn't a mental disorder. Thing is, I just generally find most of the terms to be bullshit, vague and ambiguous. And I also dislike when "normal" and "natural" comes into the picture. Frankly they are both completely irrelevant. So what if it's normal? So what if it's not normal? And what the fuck does it even mean to be natural? It occurs in nature? Everything occurs in nature! I believe we agree on the basic ideas, we're just fighting over what words to use. I guess it's one of my rage buttons~ Really, I have nothing at all against gay people, I don't give a rats ass whether or not it is normal or natural, whether they got it from birth, childhood, somehow chose it or injected it in their veins. The real question which should be the only question asked is; "Are they hurting anybody?", and since the answer is no, everything else is just redundant. I realize I'm backpedaling by now, I just don't think we'll accomplish anything if we keep discussing semantics :P

Simple way of explaining all this without subjectivity or arbitrary classifications. Bring a fact into it. Gays are a [i][b]minority[/b][/i]. Simple. The subject of what's natural is debatable, normality is a bit too subjective to go off on a tangent about without losing sight of the theme of this... "debate".

Nothing is wrong with gay people, I have multiple friends who are gay, and my mother is one, obviously a new one, otherwise I wouldn't be here. But the fact that they're a minority like Skepsis said is the fact why people are so weird towards them, like make fun of them and other things, people shouldn't have a problem with them, at all.

[QUOTE=Contag;32522138] Please move to the next level in your formal education and immerse yourself in Foucault.[/QUOTE] next level in my formal education? you mean like a university? you mean like the one where I've been majoring in psychology for going on 3 years now? yeah, I'll do that so then I can immerse myself not in foucault but instead in an angry Copy and Paste by some e-scrub who has apparently confused Psychology with Psychiatry and further confused a criticism of a specific period of psychiatric institutions (from a man who had a degree in psychology himself) coupled with a navel-gazing contemplation of whether or not "madness" is a "mental illness" (madness being a term that is 1. wholly irrelevant to the discussion of homosexuality and 2. an outdated term that no one uses outside of shitty period-piece movies) with a damning word-of-god condemnation of psychology in general. [editline]28th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE]Descriptions of the behaviors now labeled as symptomatic of mental illness or disorder were sometimes framed in quite different terms, such as possession by supernatural forces. Anthropological work in non-Western cultures suggests that there are many cases of behavior that Western psychiatry would classify as symptomatic of mental disorder, which are not seen within their own cultures as signs of mental illness (Warner, 2004, p. 173).[/QUOTE] w-w-what's this? he's saying that what, socially, constitutes "mental illness" is by no means universal and might vary across cultures? and that cultural relativism might possibly be important when attempting to form a generalized, mostly objective criteria of what constitutes a mental illness? oh god, the entire field of psychology has been invalidated by something that is taught in literally every psychology 101 class in the country. if only all those psychologists and psychiatrists had taken introductory psychology classes they might have known that they were wasting their time, their life's work having been invalidated by one of the foundations of modern psychology, sociology, and anthropology. [editline]28th September 2011[/editline] sit the hell down man

I don't encounter much homophobia here in the U.S. of course my area is very liberal tbh. I honestly have no problem with what people do in their bedroom, as long as they don't make me hear about it.

[QUOTE=kaine123;32530453]I don't encounter much homophobia here in the U.S. of course my area is very liberal tbh. I honestly have no problem with what people do in their bedroom, as long as they don't make me hear about it.[/QUOTE]I got buttfucked last night

stupid fags spreading the aids But really, the majority of hate comes from old cultural traditions, back when the Roman Catholic church ruled everything, and homosexuality was punishable by death because homosexual couples couldn't reproduce.

[QUOTE=TehWhale;32530466]I got buttfucked last night[/QUOTE] did balls touch?

[QUOTE=BigOwl;32517339]I still don't understand what's wrong with choosing to be gay or being born. Why is either option bad?[/QUOTE] Most people are born gay, there are always people that experiment or just choose to try it, but the astounding majority are born gay. The problem arises when people attack them for being gay, when it's not something you get to choose. Hating gays for being gay is akin to hating blacks for being black, it's something they have no control over so you shouldn't persecute people because of it.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;32530577]Most people are born gay, there are always people that experiment or just choose to try it, but the astounding majority are born gay. The problem arises when people attack them for being gay, when it's not something you get to choose. Hating gays for being gay is akin to hating blacks for being black, it's something they have no control over so you shouldn't persecute people because of it.[/QUOTE] i believe that you are born "gay". i know a guy who had a high pitched voice when he was 15 and he had the signs of homosexuality throughout his life, and he did end up "coming out of the closet".

[QUOTE=The First 11'er;32530707]i believe that you are born "gay". i know a guy who had a highpitched voice when he was 15 and he had the signs of homosexuality, and he did end up "coming out of the closet".[/QUOTE]Way to stereotype

If you guys want to see something interesting I really recommend the documentary that I believe is called "For the Bible tells me so." It's a movie that links the beliefs of conservative Christians to why homosexuals are still denied rights in America. I thought it was really good and would probably benefit anyone who is trying to find out more about this subject, and is on this thread. I don't know if you have heard about it yet or not, but yeah.