If there's a lobby group to get Omar Khadr acquitted, let's fucking join it.
133 replies, posted
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;24220497]Oh that's gotta sting Oog[/QUOTE]
MY SKIMMING SKILLS HAVE FAILED ONCE AGAIN!
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s[/media]
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;24220497]Oh that's gotta sting Oog[/QUOTE]
It does. :saddowns:
I agree completely, OP. If he's charged with murder for killing soldiers during what is, for all intents and purposes, war (I mean, ask US troops and you'll get that too) it basically means you can define any enemy side however you like and charge them all with murder for fighting back against your troops if they lose, and they can do the same.
[QUOTE=Carbon Knight;24217961]So if a soldier is fired upon and defends himself he is automatically a murderer?[/QUOTE]
Except sadly the US don't invade countries to just fight defensively.
Well, seems that we have quite a bit of people that are very ignorant about this issue. Mostly the Americans who, instead of thinking through an issue logically and rationally, resort to a very primitive nationalistic and patriotic raising of the voice to shout "Kill that motherfucking kid, he threw a grenade and killed the soldier". This type of argument would be instantly thrown down within a courtroom as some pseudo-mental illness, no joke about that. It would make the majority of the posters laughing-stocks for basically advocating the execution of a boy; without any actual knowledge of what happened on that day, without any knowledge of his upbringing, without any knowledge of his personality and situation, without anything but an emotional reaction.
First, this boy was 15. He was 15 for godsakes, and don't you sit there on that comfy chair and tell me that when you are in the middle of a warzone and bullets are whizzing by and everything you hear since the dawn of light in the morning is bomb shells landing in your proximity, don't you tell me that you would not be distraught.
This was a 15 year old boy who was prey to a fundamentalist father who indoctrinated him and who placed him into situations and forced him to live there. This boy had no say in the matter, he was a child who did not know his place in the world, and was simply moved like a pawn upon a chessboard.
If you think that a 15 year old boy, after spending most of his life being told over and over fundamentalist and extremist slogans and been fed with propaganda, been trained and broken as a human being to become a shell of a person, that after all of this you can expect this boy to go out and judge whether it is ethical to thrown a grenade at these soldiers who have come in guns blazing in the battlefield?
It is not our moral, ethical, or justicial duty to condemn this boy for something which was not under his control, this boy was not in a fit state of mind, and the courts should consider him such. Sending and placing this boy in Guantanamo bay, subjecting him to god knows what type of abuse and shit going on there, and then saying that that is the place that he needs to be? Only a sick and infantile mind can make such an argument, a mind that is dislocated from reality and can only see human beings as lesser if they are not Patriotic US Citizens.
I would like to also bring to attention these few bullet points pressed forward by a person:
" * A 15 year old is no terrorist, he is a child soldier.
*None of the allegations have been proven, yet he has been held in Guantanamo for about 8 years without a fair trial process
*He should be brought back to Canada and repatriated, like every other western national.
*We should try him, under the principles of fundamental justice that every Canadian is entitled to under the Charter
*I have no idea if he threw the grenade, killed those soldier or what. I do know that he was a child when the incident took place and should be tried as such.
*No matter if he did or didn't do it, this was in a warzone. At worst he was a soldier on the other side. He did not attack civilians. He should be tried under the rules of international law and should be granted those rights of an enemy combatant.
*No child deserves to be treated the way the American and Canadian government have treated Mr Khadr.
*Both countries actions in this situation are a disgrace to democracy, the rule of law, the Canadian Charter, the US Constitution and established principles of international law"
I have been trying hard to keep my emotions at bay here, but I cannot believe the ignorance that can sometimes be displayed by the population of Facepunch. That teenagers under the age of 20 can possibly go ahead and say, with complete confidence, that a boy that was 15 should be executed under these circumstances... I find it absolutely despicable. Not only is it unethical, immoral, and against all that we society are striving to achieve, but it is also very much symptomatic of the immature minds these days that sit and laugh at those who claim to want to join the army because of Modern Warfare 2 and then go back to their elitist internet societies and claim such idiotic and inhumane standings upon an issue; standings that can only be stated due to a lack of intelligence, as anybody who thinks things through and has a basic knowledge of human rights and justice systems should figure this situation out.
So, remember those 3 journalists killed by a trigger happy helicopter pilot? And the good Samaritan injured while trying to save them, and the kid that was scarred for life. All you think was, "Oh it looked like he was carrying a gun" Did you hear the gunner getting excited about killing the people? Those people got away with it for 3 years until wikileaks stumbled across it, Then the US military went and court marshaled them to maintain their image. Did those people felt the need to defend themselves, yes, and they were not trialed for murder. The kid, no, CHILD SOLDIER felt the need to defend himself, and he get charged with fucking murder. I will probably be quoted by some smart ass American trying to desperately trying to pick apart my argument until he finds a small hole and gives bullshit facts to exploit it. You invaded his country. He was a mindless pawn in the cruel face of war, who at 15, could probably not comprehend the ethical and physical repercussions of what he was doing , is being trialed for murder. Trial him if you must, but the rest of the world will be scowling at you.
Also, this^
I edited a few things, anger does not write well, i went overboard, but i still feel my statement is true
Just send him back to his homeland.
If that fucking kid gets aquitted I will rage mode.
He whips grenades at soldiers, and there's also a video of him wiring up explosives/IEDS.
Fuck him
The kid survived a bombing.
There were US soldiers invading his home.
Don't try to tell me that any of you wouldn't have fought back either. He was in a walled off area, and the people he was living with had just been killed. He was 15 years old.
I'm not saying the kid shouldn't be tried; he's living in Canada. That's no different than a US soldier going to live in Afghanistan and getting tried for murder. But he should be given leniency, or at least the chance to leave the country. It wasn't his fault.
[QUOTE=XThatOneGuyX;24223830]Just send him back to his homeland.[/QUOTE]
:canada:
[QUOTE=Aman V;24223961]If that fucking kid gets aquitted I will rage mode.
He whips grenades at soldiers, and there's also a video of him wiring up explosives/IEDS.
Fuck him[/QUOTE]
He "whips" grenades at soldiers? What the hell do you think this is, a video game? It's not like that boy had 10 grenades and was throwing them around with willful and absolute conscious intent to kill every single US soldier on the perimeter, he threw one grenade because of the circumstance; a damn scary circumstance if I may add.
-snip-
Personally I think Khadr should be tried in Canada for murder but he was in a bad situation, he was wiring IEDs and other high explosives though he had intent to kill American troops.
[QUOTE=BloodStream;24224052]The kid survived a bombing.
There were US soldiers invading his home.
Don't try to tell me that any of you wouldn't have fought back either. He was in a walled off area, and the people he was living with had just been killed. He was 15 years old.
I'm not saying the kid shouldn't be tried; he's living in Canada. That's no different than a US soldier going to live in Afghanistan and getting tried for murder. But he should be given leniency, or at least the chance to leave the country. It wasn't his fault.[/QUOTE]
Actually they found videos and photos of him making and planting bombs on roads with some other men and laughing as he did it. He was a terrorist, no denying that.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;24223606]So, remember those 3 journalists killed by a trigger happy helicopter pilot? And the good Samaritan injured while trying to save them, and the kid that was scarred for life. All you think was, "Oh it looked like he was carrying a gun" Did you hear the gunner getting excited about killing the people? Those people got away with it for 3 years until wikileaks stumbled across it, Then the US military went and court marshaled them to maintain their image. Did those people felt the need to defend themselves, yes, and they were not trialed for murder. The kid, no, CHILD SOLDIER felt the need to defend himself, and he get charged with fucking murder. I will probably be quoted by some smart ass American trying to desperately trying to pick apart my argument until he finds a small hole and gives bullshit facts to exploit it. You invaded his country. He was a mindless pawn in the cruel face of war, who at 15, could probably not comprehend the ethical and physical repercussions of what he was doing , is being trialed for murder. Trial him if you must, but the rest of the world will be scowling at you.
Also, this^
I edited a few things, anger does not write well, i went overboard, but i still feel my statement is true[/QUOTE]
He was born in Toronto, he is not an Afghani, and therefore not defending his country.
He isn't even Afghani by heritage, he's Egyptian-Canadian. The only other place he lived as a child was Pakistan. He didn't move to Afghanistan until he was ten, whereupon by all accounts his father allowed him to move into a group home with people associated with the insurgent movement. That's a pretty loose definition of "defending your country".
I would agree with trying him in Canada, but this isn't some local boy who lived in Afghanistan his whole life.
[QUOTE=Viephemeral;24224487]Actually they found videos and photos of him making and planting bombs on roads with some other men and laughing as he did it. He was a terrorist, no denying that.[/QUOTE]
If you make such statements, I would expect you to back yourself up. Where are these videos? Can we as well see them, or are they top secret now?
Can you visibly identify the kid in these videos? Are you sure they have not been doctored? Are you sure that it is not videos created in such a way as to cast a negative light?
Anyways, it would be highly helpful if you were to link to these videos.
[QUOTE=Kontradaz;24224566]If you make such statements, I would expect you to back yourself up. Where are these videos? Can we as well see them, or are they top secret now?
Can you visibly identify the kid in these videos? Are you sure they have not been doctored? Are you sure that it is not videos created in such a way as to cast a negative light?
Anyways, it would be highly helpful if you were to link to these videos.[/QUOTE]
Generally speaking courts don't just wanton release evidence like that.
[QUOTE=Strider_07;24224793]Generally speaking courts don't just wanton release evidence like that.[/QUOTE]
Then I guess it is pointless to rely upon hearsay to validate the labeling of a boy a "terrorist", I mean, either that guy is lying about the videos, or he has seen them and thus can provide a link to them; if something that important gets out on the internet, it will not be hidden for long.
Were not fighting an army. He's not in the army. He's a kid who threw a grenade at a soldier who wouldn't have shot him in the first place.
While we're at it why don't we all go move to Iraq and start killing American soldiers, shit, they're the ones invading right?
I don't think he should be acquitted for what he did, though he should be brought back to Canada to stand trial. I mean, he was raised by a father with some shady ties in the middle east. He should never have been there in the first place.
Kmanedit: Didn't know he was Canadian, my bad.
[QUOTE=Kontradaz;24225467]Then I guess it is pointless to rely upon hearsay to validate the labeling of a boy a "terrorist", I mean, either that guy is lying about the videos, or he has seen them and thus can provide a link to them; if something that important gets out on the internet, it will not be hidden for long.[/QUOTE]
We're all relying on information relayed by the press. Unless you're somehow able to get into the trial?
[quote=archangel125;24217154]rating me dumb...[/quote]
ooooh cannnaaddaaaaa
[QUOTE=Strider_07;24228000]We're all relying on information relayed by the press. Unless you're somehow able to get into the trial?[/QUOTE]
And we all know that the press is as unbiased as a straight line, right?
The OP is right, it's just that a lot of facepunchers are too ignorant to accept the fact that the U.S. army aren't a bunch of heroes. They're the opposite. They murder many innocent civilians in every warzone they enter. It's not like the kid was a terrorist or anything, the U.S. are doing nothing but making the situation worse in the war.
I hate idiots who say "hurr, its a war, it happens, mudern warfair too!!1" to justify this. The U.S. military is, whether you like it or not, evil with bad intentions in the first place. It's just that a lot of it's soldiers who think they're "fighting for freedom" and U.S. citizens fail to see the truth.
OP is stupid as shit.
it's murder.
[QUOTE=Chrith;24220193]The U.S are only in Afghanistan fighting against the taliban. The Afghanistan military support the U.S' war with the taliban The soldier wouldn't have shot the kid, however, the kid killed him.[/QUOTE]
The way they "fight taliban for freedom" is atrocious. They've killed many more civillians than they have taliban.
The U.S. government doesn't give a shit about the Afghan population, the only reason they fight the Taliban is because after U.S. got Taliban into power in the first place, both sides got too greedy and they broke off.
Leaf is stupid too.
great.
[editline]04:29AM[/editline]
woops ninja'd
[QUOTE=zerothefallen;24228135]OP is stupid as shit.
it's murder.[/QUOTE]
Excellent arguement, everything was cited perfectly. My favorite part was when you didn't even read the OP to see why [I]it's not[/I] murder.
You should spend more time knowing what you're talking about instead of spending so much time watching your anime.
Edit to avoid spam:
[QUOTE=zerothefallen;24228195]oh ho ho I watch anime so i don't know what im talking about.
He's Canadian, he killed an american ally, which is MURDER.[/QUOTE]
:bravo: on not reading the OP once again at all! I love how so much of facepunch think they have the perfect solution to every global crisis, know how to fix every legal system(usually consisting of "hurr execute criminal immediately") , and perfectly understand how war work, when in the end they sound like huge dipshits who think they're right because of ratings on an online forum. Seriously, most of you have barely spent any time researching this stuff at all, and are too arrogant to admit any possibility of being wrong.
-snip for bad reading
but he did murder an american soldier who didn't threaten him nor would the american soldier shoot him on site either
[editline]04:36AM[/editline]
Leaf reread first page
[editline]04:38AM[/editline]
Leaf..
Reread the first page
[editline]04:38AM[/editline]
hold on let me get a quote for you
[editline]04:38AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=nivek;24217376]USA is not an enemy to the country. The enemy is the Taliban. Fuck that kid he should be put the fuck down. It's murder. If the US soldier saw the child he would not kill him, however the kid kill the soldier, not in defense to his own safety but to fucking murder the soldier, the kid should be hung.[/QUOTE]
There's a fairly substantial difference between being enlisted in an army and following orders to kill enemy soldiers, and personally deciding to kill soldiers because of your political views. It's murder. If my country was invaded by foreigners and I had the balls to fight back as a civilian, I wouldn't expect to be treated as a POW if I was caught, even if it was my own country.
[QUOTE=zerothefallen;24228195]-snip for bad reading
but he did murder an american soldier who didn't threaten him nor would the american soldier shoot him on site either
[editline]04:36AM[/editline]
Leaf reread first page
[editline]04:38AM[/editline]
Leaf..
Reread the first page
[editline]04:38AM[/editline]
hold on let me get a quote for you
[editline]04:38AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=nivek;24217376]USA is not an enemy to the country. The enemy is the Taliban. Fuck that kid he should be put the fuck down. It's murder. If the US soldier saw the child he would not kill him, however the kid kill the soldier, not in defense to his own safety but to fucking murder the soldier, the kid should be hung.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Way to snip your post.
And how is that post proving anything? It's an angsty teenager whining that a kid should be [i]hanged.[/i] It's also not like all the U.S. soldiers know what they're really doing. Most soldiers still believe they're fighting for "Freedom", and don't know how many innocent Afghan civilians have been killed by the army. You people are failing to look at this from the point of view of an Afghan civillian. Many other Afghan civilians around you [i]who have families[/i] are being recklessly killed by the army.
The U.S. is literally a bigger enemy to the common Afghan Civilian than the Taliban itself. Fun facts:
1) U.S. is the reason Taliban was brought to power, they were formerly allies.
2) The "Green Resistence" (One of the biggest movements against the Taliban, forgot the actual name, G.R. is one of the nicknames) has fought wars against the Taliban for true freedom. Guess why they lost? U.S. intervened.
3) The U.S. only made the entire situation worse. They are the reason the war happened in the first place. Afghan/Iran/Iraq and any nation involved in the war for that matter do not need U.S.
Seriously, you guys sound extremely stupid when you throw around phrases about how someone should die because of your personal opinion.
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