[QUOTE=Rago;31939604]I might be skinny, but other people aren't so they'd keep their weights but increase their strength.
Funny how you mentioned lots of sports but not boxing.
Let me tell you something. Lifting weights can increase the size and strength of your muscles, I'll give you that, but generally only increases the size and strength of muscles than are seen that have aesthetic value. But it does not address majority of muscles that have no aesthetic value such as ligaments and tendons, and leaves ligaments and tendons weak. You wouldn't want that, now would you? Weight training also decreases flexibility, so it's hindering the the flow of energy through the body.
Calisthenics however increases strength and a little size, but it prevents all that other stuff.[/QUOTE]
holy fuck.... This isn't just some lack of knowledge on your part, you really fucking must be stupid.
Ok I'll mention boxing. I've been a competitive amateur boxer for about 5 years now. I weight train, a lot, and yet I have the fastest hands in my gym, faster than dudes who are 10kg lighter than me and don't do any weight training.
Want more examples?
Roy jones was faster at heavyweight than he was at light heavyweight.
David Haye is currently considered the fastest heavyweight in the world. He does a shitload of weight training.
Wladimir Klitschko does a shit load of weight training, while he's never been a boxer that relies on handspeed, he's not slow. At all.
When pacquiao moved up in weight he didn't get slower.
When mayweather bulked up, he didn't get slower.
When holyfield moved up from cruiser to heavyweight, he didn't get slower.
Every fighter ever who was a name to know in K1, all had weight training their regimes. Cro cop in his prime could complete a head kick before most men could get their arm up to block it. Cro cop has always done heavy weight training. Oh jeez hes so slow.
Let me tell you something, you have [B]no fucking clue what you are talking about[/B]. Through heavy weight training you are laying neural pathways and stimulating the growth of fast twitch muscle fibers. Weight training STRENGTHENS tendons you retard.
Weight training does NOT decrease flexibility, show me your fucking evidence for this. "Oh this dude who squats a lot at my gym cant put his leg behind his head" orrr maybe its because the dude doesn't care for it, so doesn't stretch to increase his flexibility.
[editline]25th August 2011[/editline]
literally the only argument you could make against weight training in this case is how it affects endurance, because it does. Larger muscles require more oxygen to function. Hence why heavyweight fighters are always going to throw less overall punches/strikes than lighter weight classes
but this has NOTHING to do with speed, and you don't know shit about boxing so welp
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;31940044]holy fuck.... This isn't just some lack of knowledge on your part, you really fucking must be stupid.
Ok I'll mention boxing. I've been a competitive amateur boxer for about 5 years now. I weight train, a lot, and yet I have the fastest hands in my gym, faster than dudes who are 10kg lighter than me and don't do any weight training.
Want more examples?
Roy jones was faster at heavyweight than he was at light heavyweight.
David Haye is currently considered the fastest heavyweight in the world. He does a shitload of weight training.
Wladimir Klitschko does a shit load of weight training, while he's never been a boxer that relies on handspeed, he's not slow. At all.
When pacquiao moved up in weight he didn't get slower.
When mayweather bulked up, he didn't get slower.
When holyfield moved up from cruiser to heavyweight, he didn't get slower.
Every fighter ever who was a name to know in K1, all had weight training their regimes. Cro cop in his prime could complete a head kick before most men could get their arm up to block it. Cro cop has always done heavy weight training. Oh jeez hes so slow.
Let me tell you something, you have [B]no fucking clue what you are talking about[/B]. Through heavy weight training you are laying neural pathways and stimulating the growth of fast twitch muscle fibers. Weight training STRENGTHENS tendons you retard.
Weight training does NOT decrease flexibility, show me your fucking evidence for this. "Oh this dude who squats a lot at my gym cant put his leg behind his head" orrr maybe its because the dude doesn't care for it, so doesn't stretch to increase his flexibility.
[editline]25th August 2011[/editline]
literally the only argument you could make against weight training in this case is how it affects endurance, because it does. Larger muscles require more oxygen to function. Hence why heavyweight fighters are always going to throw less overall punches/strikes than lighter weight classes
but this has NOTHING to do with speed, and you don't know shit about boxing so welp[/QUOTE]
You are my favorite poster here. srs.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;31940044]holy fuck.... This isn't just some lack of knowledge on your part, you really fucking must be stupid.
Ok I'll mention boxing. I've been a competitive amateur boxer for about 5 years now. I weight train, a lot, and yet I have the fastest hands in my gym, faster than dudes who are 10kg lighter than me and don't do any weight training.
Want more examples?
Roy jones was faster at heavyweight than he was at light heavyweight.
David Haye is currently considered the fastest heavyweight in the world. He does a shitload of weight training.
Wladimir Klitschko does a shit load of weight training, while he's never been a boxer that relies on handspeed, he's not slow. At all.
When pacquiao moved up in weight he didn't get slower.
When mayweather bulked up, he didn't get slower.
When holyfield moved up from cruiser to heavyweight, he didn't get slower.
Every fighter ever who was a name to know in K1, all had weight training their regimes. Cro cop in his prime could complete a head kick before most men could get their arm up to block it. Cro cop has always done heavy weight training. Oh jeez hes so slow.
Let me tell you something, you have [B]no fucking clue what you are talking about[/B]. Through heavy weight training you are laying neural pathways and stimulating the growth of fast twitch muscle fibers. Weight training STRENGTHENS tendons you retard.
Weight training does NOT decrease flexibility, show me your fucking evidence for this. "Oh this dude who squats a lot at my gym cant put his leg behind his head" orrr maybe its because the dude doesn't care for it, so doesn't stretch to increase his flexibility.
[editline]25th August 2011[/editline]
literally the only argument you could make against weight training in this case is how it affects endurance, because it does. Larger muscles require more oxygen to function. Hence why heavyweight fighters are always going to throw less overall punches/strikes than lighter weight classes
but this has NOTHING to do with speed, and you don't know shit about boxing so welp[/QUOTE]
Examples don't proof anything. If those fighters al invested more time into bodyweight training they would reach the same fucking strength capability.
As for the flexibility. It's proven that everytime you train with weights you shorten your muscles therefor lose flexibility. But of course, one could train flexibility but that doesn't change the fact that you lose flexibility.
Now for the final conclusion of all of this:
For boxing I'd recommend bodyweight over weight training due the fact that, like you mentioned the oxygen part and flexibility. Why? Because there is no disadvantage in bodyweight training when it comes to boxing.
oh my fucking god
can we get this dumb kid banned already please
^ he does have a point with bodyweight training. Weight lifting can be incorperated minorly, but most boxers i worked out with did mostly all b/w workouts.
[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8sapMW_W6ok/THP9JHQvcwI/AAAAAAAACAA/1M3v-IPHICc/s1600/AndyHug3.jpg[/img]
jeez tell you what guys, i don't think you shud train with weights nymore becuase it really affects your flexibility
[editline]25th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Septimas;31941337]^ he does have a point with bodyweight training. Weight lifting can be incorperated minorly, but most boxers i worked out with did mostly all b/w workouts.[/QUOTE]
That's because it's been boxing dogma for about 50+ years, doesn't mean its right.
It's not until the past 20-30 years and the efforts of some very forward thinkers that have started to open boxers up to the benefits of incorporating weight training, especially in Olympic training teams.
I'm not even saying don't do bodyweight training. I'm saying you may as well do it in addition to weight training, unless of course you're a retard like rago.
Like I said, one can train on flexibility to increase it. And also, the only reason why I'm not doing weight training is because it'll slow down my goal, which I need to reach in 6-7 months. But I really don't see a reason for me to do training with weights. Bodyweight is so much more fun to do and therefor there is more motivation for me to train.
[QUOTE=Rago;31941205] [B]1.[/B]Examples don't proof anything. If those fighters al invested more time into bodyweight training they would reach the same fucking strength capability.
[B]2.[/B]As for the flexibility. It's proven that everytime you train with weights you shorten your muscles therefor lose flexibility. But of course, one could train flexibility but that doesn't change the fact that you lose flexibility.
[B]3.[/B]Now for the final conclusion of all of this:
For boxing I'd recommend bodyweight over weight training due the fact that, like you mentioned the oxygen part and flexibility. Why? Because there is no disadvantage in bodyweight training when it comes to boxing.[/QUOTE]
1. No they wouldn't. Again you are chucking around terms you have no understanding of. "strength capability"? Please, illustrate to me how doing 30+ pushups and buring out your slow-twitch fibers has any impact on the topic of [B]explosive strength[/B], which is the ability to exert [B]maximal force[/B] in the minimum amount of time. By stimulating and INCREASING THE NUMBER OF FAST TWITCH FIBERS you are increasing your ability to exert power in a short time frame, to explode.
Two dudes, both same height, both 10% bodyfat. One dude is 140lbs, the other dude is 220lbs. The smaller guy is NEVER going to have the same potential for both explosive strength or absolute strength, i don't care how many fucking tuck planches he does.
2. Proven?? For a dude who last time he was asked to provide proof he cherry picked an opinion article, you sure like to chuck that word around a lot. SHOW ME THE PROOF.
3. Again, you simpleton, if you'd listen: [B]weight training without a caloric surplus will not result in any size gain, it's impossible, hence why powerlifters can compete in a specific weight class if they choose to[/B]. And i said a BIGGER muscle requires more oxygen. If a fighter wants to stay at 150lbs, and benefit from weight training, he can. It won't affect his endurance in any way, in fact his endurance will probably benefit from it.
If he wants to move up in weight, then who gives a fuck, he's going to have to adapt to the more tactical pace of heavier weight classes anyway. Guess what, if he moved up in weight using bodyweight exercises, it would be exactly the SAME.
[editline]25th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rago;31941657]Like I said, one can train on flexibility to increase it. And also, the only reason why I'm not doing weight training is because it'll slow down my goal, which I need to reach in 6-7 months. But I really don't see a reason for me to do training with weights. Bodyweight is so much more fun to do and therefor there is more motivation for me to train.[/QUOTE]
ye hth if you haven't noticed already I don't really give a fuck about what you want to do, just stop spreading misinformation about stuff you clearly have no understanding of thanks in advance
I know you don't give a fuck but you keep on saying that I don't do weights etc etc. Also plyometric training helps a lot with explosive strength.
[QUOTE=Rago;31942034]I know you don't give a fuck but you keep on saying that I don't do weights etc etc. Also plyometric training helps a lot with explosive strength.[/QUOTE]
It helps with neural efficiency which in turns aids explosive strength. Do you even know what real plyometric training is?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG_1hxCtimw[/media]
It's not fucking tuck planches or dragon flags or w/e the fuck gay idea you come up with next
[editline]25th August 2011[/editline]
seriously tuck planche sounds like a gay porn star's stage name
Dick-tuck planche
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;31944098]It helps with neural efficiency which in turns aids explosive strength. Do you even know what real plyometric training is?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG_1hxCtimw[/media]
It's not fucking tuck planches or dragon flags or w/e the fuck gay idea you come up with next
[editline]25th August 2011[/editline]
seriously tuck planche sounds like a gay porn star's stage name
Dick-tuck planche[/QUOTE]
I never told him to do tuck planches, I told him to do plyometric push-ups and variations of that
Holy shit, it DOESN'T matter from where the weight comes from. What you need is RESISTANCE to move against, whether it's your body weight, a dumbbell, barbell, kettlebell, club, a partner or a fucking wall, IT DOES NOT MATTER. Sure, every kind of exercise type might specialize into different fields, but if you're looking into simple (explosive) strength gains, it does NOT matter.
The only thing that's important is that resistance is applied against the direction of the limb's force. And that can be anything your mind can come up with. But you always have minor different advantages in individual fields with every method. For example, you can easily measure your progress with barbells and keep track of it. Or a kettlebell applies much more momentum than most other devices. Or with BWEs you always have your weight with you and can train everywhere.
It doesn't matter.
Most BWEs won't provide enough of a significant load for a person who can easily handle their bodyweight (for example, I use clap pushups for neural efficiency, but the load isn't significant enough that I'd use it in place of say, benching)
[editline]26th August 2011[/editline]
For most of you probably exercises like dips and pullups would still have significant load/resistance that you could use them
Pullups take forever to get to the stage where you can crank out 12+
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;31958218]Most BWEs won't provide enough of a significant load for a person who can easily handle their bodyweight (for example, I use clap pushups for neural efficiency, but the load isn't significant enough that I'd use it in place of say, benching)
[editline]26th August 2011[/editline]
For most of you probably exercises like dips and pullups would still have significant load/resistance that you could use them
Pullups take forever to get to the stage where you can crank out 12+[/QUOTE]
I have no idea why pullups are so hard. It doesnt even feel like its straining that bad, just feels like there is a literal wall i cant get past.
But i just keep doing them every day and im at a decent amount.
[QUOTE=Septimas;31958412]I have no idea why pullups are so hard. It doesnt even feel like its straining that bad, just feels like there is a literal wall i cant get past.
But i just keep doing them every day and im at a decent amount.[/QUOTE]
I know that feel.
For me the big turning point was getting a good mind to muscle connection going with your lats. If you're trying to heave your body on your arms only you are going to burn out way too quickly.
There are loads and loads of BWEs that you can practice, and it takes a very long time to actually have gained all the strength they offer. One armed handstand push ups come into mind, or different levers.
[url]http://www.beastskills.com/tutorials/[/url]
Also, pull ups are so hard because hardly anyone uses them on a regular basis before they start training. You may be used to be stronger when you workout, but if you don't start with pull ups from the scratch, you'll be surprised.
if you want to punch like an animal with explosive force like mike tyson, squats deads and clean & jerks. more specifically explosive rubberbanded squats and the heaviest most explosive clean & jerk you can do.
[editline]31st August 2011[/editline]
listen to jaeger and wu wei.
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