• Independence of Scotland
    114 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Instant Mix;32397549]Coming from inside scotland , I really don't think scotland should have independence. Whilst I believe scotland should have more independence on making it's own laws and enforcing it's own rather that it's own and the parliaments. Scotland does rely heavily on relations and connections between england and I genuinely think that if this was broken the wealth of scotland would drop. dramatically.[/QUOTE] Exactly what I think. We should be given more devolved powers, because there aren't that much right now.
[QUOTE=Bad)-(and;32398079]You know, you have every right to oppose the idea. But to sit there, and arrogantly call those that disagree with you "patriotic idiots" does nothing but make people disregard anything you have to say. Oh, and FYI. Support for Scottish independence has been rising year on year and is currently ahead of those that oppose it. So those "few" you call idiots, is most of the country right now.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't call them patriotic idiots if they had a decent reason so separate.
Don't see the point in even trying. If you're holding 60% of UK natural resources then there is no way in hell that you'll ever be free. Sorry.
I wonder how long it'll be before wales wants independence too. Not that I have a problem with that, I just worry about the economic implications.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32399603]I wouldn't call them patriotic idiots if they had a decent reason so separate.[/QUOTE] So self-determination doesn't count as a "decent" reason in your eyes? I'm sorry, we're shackled to a government we resoundingly didn't vote for at the moment. One constituency of the Scottish ones was Tory. ONE! Yet we have to let them fuck up our country because of what those of you south of the border voted? And that is supposed to be a fair and representative example of democracy? No, I'm afraid it doesn't quite work. And that's only "one" good reason, perhaps the best of them, but if that doesn't count in your eyes then I would call you a blinkered idiot who refuses to accept any claim that might give those "patriotic idiots" validity in their cause.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;32403858]So self-determination doesn't count as a "decent" reason in your eyes? I'm sorry, we're shackled to a government we resoundingly didn't vote for at the moment. One constituency of the Scottish ones was Tory. ONE! Yet we have to let them fuck up our country because of what those of you south of the border voted? And that is supposed to be a fair and representative example of democracy? No, I'm afraid it doesn't quite work. And that's only "one" good reason, perhaps the best of them, but if that doesn't count in your eyes then I would call you a blinkered idiot who refuses to accept any claim that might give those "patriotic idiots" validity in their cause.[/QUOTE] Atleast you have your own parliament, us English have no parliament and pretty much get the short straw on everything (like having to pay £9000 for university whereas you Scottish get it free
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32409715]Atleast you have your own parliament, us English have no parliament and pretty much get the short straw on everything (like having to pay £9000 for university whereas you Scottish get it free[/QUOTE] Because the Scottish Government decided that it was going to reinvest some of the money it gets into the education system? The Westminister parliament is the English parliament, it does bugger all for Scotland or Wales, it just doesn't do much for the lower/middle classes of England, either.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32409715]Atleast you have your own parliament, us English have no parliament and pretty much get the short straw on everything (like having to pay £9000 for university whereas you Scottish get it free[/QUOTE] I always thought that was unfair. Scottish and Northern Irish MPs get to vote on issues that effect their individual states and the entire UK, whereas English MPs can only vote on issues that effect the entire UK.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;32423152]Because the Scottish Government decided that it was going to reinvest some of the money it gets into the education system? The Westminister parliament is the English parliament, it does bugger all for Scotland or Wales, it just doesn't do much for the lower/middle classes of England, either.[/QUOTE] No they aren't, the Westminster government control matters concerning the UK as a whole, meaning us English have no specific parliament that represents us.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;32423152]Because the Scottish Government decided that it was going to reinvest some of the money it gets into the education system? The Westminister parliament is the English parliament, it does bugger all for Scotland or Wales, it just doesn't do much for the lower/middle classes of England, either.[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question[/url]
To anyone saying oil will run out, I'm sorry but that really isn't true; currently we are only using around 20% of oil per rig, as after that it is un-economical to extract it due to the lack of pressure. With advances in technology, and a growing need for oil, we will probably start using that other 80%. Plus it is almost impossible to estimate how much un-discovered oil we have left, so saying it will run out in 100 years is pulling numbers out of your ass. This is information I've gotten first hand from a Geologist with his Masters degree in Geology and Astronomy from Oxford, and having worked on rigs for years. As for Scottish independence, as an english man I don't see much advantage, besides the fact we will finally get rid of scottish MPs in english parliament meddling with stuff that they're not elected for.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;32428296][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question[/url][/QUOTE] As a Scot, I completely agree with this. And it's definitely an issue that has to be addressed. I don't want English, or Welsh or Northern Irish MPs having a say in how Scottish matters are dealth with in Holyrood. So I can completely understand why people are annoyed with this. Scottish MPs should have absolutely no say in any matters dealt with in Wesminster that have no affect on Scotland.
[QUOTE=Bad)-(and;32430573]As a Scot, I completely agree with this. And it's definitely an issue that has to be addressed. I don't want English, or Welsh or Northern Irish MPs having a say in how Scottish matters are dealth with in Holyrood. So I can completely understand why people are annoyed with this. Scottish MPs should have absolutely no say in any matters dealt with in Wesminster that have no affect on Scotland.[/QUOTE] Aye, completely agree, but then the problem becomes if you have that kind of political devolvement, then why not just have independence?
Scotland would be great independent, but we'd lose a lot of things in the process like a damn good beer and millions of dollars, maybe billions. So I'm neutral.
[QUOTE=Dogchow33;32430811]Scotland would be great independent, but we'd lose a lot of things in the process like a damn good beer and millions of dollars, maybe billions. So I'm neutral.[/QUOTE] And it would be massively inconvenient for people who travel from Scotland to England to go to work
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[QUOTE=Bad)-(and;32430573]As a Scot, I completely agree with this. And it's definitely an issue that has to be addressed. I don't want English, or Welsh or Northern Irish MPs having a say in how Scottish matters are dealth with in Holyrood. So I can completely understand why people are annoyed with this. Scottish MPs should have absolutely no say in any matters dealt with in Wesminster that have no affect on Scotland.[/QUOTE] In that case then I assume you're against being in the EU
[QUOTE=The DooD;32430984]Please tell me you meant Astronomy or something else. A masters degree in astrology sounds like several years life wasted.[/QUOTE] Yeah sorry. Thanks for pointing that out.
Why can't we both just get along?
I support having a referendum. Anyone that doesn't should really think about why they are against it. I think independence would be a pretty good idea too though.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32430974]And it would be massively inconvenient for people who travel from Scotland to England to go to work[/QUOTE]Not if Scotland joins the European Union or signs an agreement with England.
A lot of the time I hear about independence for Scotland, England is always called out as the bad guy. After all it was King [I]James[/I] who took the [I]English[/I] throne, and then there's the west [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question"]lothian question[/URL]. Sure England back in the day was a sadistic bloody imperialist, but it was nothing on what the British have done [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_empire"]as a whole[/URL] But sure, I support Scottish independence, if only it means more freedom for the English, but there's one thing: [IMG]http://i51.tinypic.com/2h3dc3r.png[/IMG] I don't like it But I know most of you Scots aren't like this, you're mostly cool, really :unsmith:
[QUOTE=Charybdis;32440026]A lot of the time I hear about independence for Scotland, England is always called out as the bad guy. After all it was King [I]James[/I] who took the [I]English[/I] throne, and then there's the west [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question"]lothian question[/URL]. Sure England back in the day was a sadistic bloody imperialist, but it was nothing on what the British have done [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_empire"]as a whole[/URL] But sure, I support Scottish independence, if only it means more freedom for the English, but there's one thing: [IMG]http://i51.tinypic.com/2h3dc3r.png[/IMG] I don't like it But I know most of you Scots aren't like this, you're mostly cool, really :unsmith:[/QUOTE] It's high time Wales got on the Union flag. Which means we'll have quite possibly the most badass flag in human history [img]http://www.lundypete.com/Petes%20Lundy%20Flag.JPG[/img] (northern ireland doesn't have its own flag so fuck them)
I thought the four diagonal stripes represented Wales?
[QUOTE=WeekendWarrior;32442885]I thought the four diagonal stripes represented Wales?[/QUOTE] The Cross of St. Patrick represents Northern Ireland. Wales is not represented on the Union Jack because it is not its own country (yet it [i]still[/i] gets its own parliament before England).
I think it's independence for Independences sake, it'll make everyone weaker . Hooray ! and the first thing out of a scots mouth is 'resources' ( and sometimes only word :| ) which is a bit odd, basing independence off of a finite resource isn't exactly a clever idea, especially when the price of oil can be so volatile . It's not like they never got money from the oil already because the UK government shoves it by the bucketload to Scotland. I kinda want them to split, though. With their huge deficit in the money given to them compared to how much they give back to the Union we can easily do without them but I fear for how well they can do without us, obviously they'll say they'll be fine but uh. Yeaah. I don't think so.
[QUOTE=Spawndex;32442925]I think it's independence for Independences sake, it'll make everyone weaker . Hooray ![/QUOTE] Pretty much that's what it is. Essentially nothing tangible would happen.
No, living in Scotland and having done so in my entire life, I say no. The future is about Globalisation, not separation. Britain works better as a whole. Nationalism is soooo 1900's. There is no point. We have no reason to separate from the rest of Britain. Example 1. We would probably use the Euro, look at what state it is in right now. Example 2. Southern Ireland, that went really well in the long run didn't it (No offence to any Irish FPers, but you are in a bit of a kerfuffle in terms of economy) Example 3. We would have to spend all that huge profit we would supposedly make on defense unless the army was left untouched. Example 4. Get over it, its not the 1700's, we don't get fucked over by the English, they just don't listen to us in Parliament (Yet we can vote on things about English Education and English matters, but they can't about ours so ahahahahahaha")
Personally I'm not really for it, but I can understand why. Scottish people REALLY aren't keen on the conservatives. Miners strikes and stuff like that, we don't like being ruled by a party that's only got sixteen constituency's. [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/8495468/Scottish-Election-2011-results-map.html[/url] That say's something about the Scottish peoples opinion on being ruled by the conservatives.
[QUOTE=kebab52;32446375]Personally I'm not really for it, but I can understand why. Scottish people REALLY aren't keen on the conservatives. Miners strikes and stuff like that, we don't like being ruled by a party that's only got sixteen constituency's. [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/8495468/Scottish-Election-2011-results-map.html[/url] That say's something about the Scottish peoples opinion on being ruled by the conservatives.[/QUOTE] If the Scotts are as against the tories as you say I would prefer we stayed together. The more votes against the tories the better in my opinion.
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