• Independence of Scotland
    114 replies, posted
[QUOTE=squids_eye;32447066]If the Scotts are as against the tories as you say I would prefer we stayed together. The more votes against the tories the better in my opinion.[/QUOTE] Nothing like a bit of Gerrymandering in the morning
[QUOTE=squids_eye;32447066]If the Scotts are as against the tories as you say I would prefer we stayed together. The more votes against the tories the better in my opinion.[/QUOTE] I'm beginning to come round to the idea of independence, I like the idea of being able to choose our country's future. Also, lets be honest, most people in Scotland identify themselves as Scottish, not British. At least the people I know do.
[QUOTE=Inafinus :3;32446249]No, living in Scotland and having done so in my entire life, I say no. Example 2. Southern Ireland, that went really well in the long run didn't it (No offence to any Irish FPers, but you are in a bit of a kerfuffle in terms of economy) [/QUOTE] I take [b]huge[/b] offence to that!! (Just joking). But seriously, our economy is just fine. We've just come off a huge boom that dramatically benefited our country and have just hit a small wall that we are doing grand with at the moment. In five or ten years, we'll probably be doing very well again. The point is that you can function absolutely fine separate from the UK, as we have done (and still do), so that example is a bad one. We earn higher wages on average to our UK counterparts (pay higher prices too unfortunately), and our country functions perfectly well. Sure, we've hit a stumbling block but what country doesn't at some stage or another? (Let's not forget that the UK was "bailed out" by the IMF in the 70s). Our economy grew at the second fastest pace in the entire Eurozone last quarter, too. [QUOTE=Inafinus :3;32446249]Example 3. We would have to spend all that huge profit we would supposedly make on defense unless the army was left untouched. [/quote] Again, not necessarily. Ireland spends .06% of its GDP on defence (which is very little), and have a defence force of 10,000 troops or so, since we are a neutral country (which we can decide for ourselves as we are separate from the UK). I'm not saying that Scotland should go neutral or anything at all, but there are other options such as NATO. Plus, [i]if[/i] Scotland ever went independent, it's not like they would suddenly cut all ties with the UK. A common defence treaty could be easily established.
[QUOTE=Caesar;32456020]Again, not necessarily. Ireland spends .06% of its GDP on defence (which is very little), and have a defence force of 10,000 troops or so, since we are a neutral country (which we can decide for ourselves as we are separate from the UK). I'm not saying that Scotland should go neutral or anything at all, but there are other options such as NATO. Plus, [i]if[/i] Scotland ever went independent, it's not like they would suddenly cut all ties with the UK. A common defence treaty could be easily established.[/QUOTE] The main problem with defence wouldn't be what to do with our own, but what to do with the UKs. The UK's entire nuclear deterrent is stored in Scotland
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;32442852](northern ireland doesn't have its own flag so fuck them)[/QUOTE] -snip- You're right, they don't. Apparently St Patrick's Cross is meant to represent them in the Union Jack.
[QUOTE=Bad)-(and;32456399]They main problem with defence wouldn't be what to do with our own, but what to do with the UKs. The UK's entire nuclear deterrent is stored in Scotland[/QUOTE] Good point, I've never thought about that. I'm sure arrangements could be worked out though. [QUOTE=Hizan;32456546]-snip- You're right, they don't. Apparently St Patrick's Cross is meant to represent them in the Union Jack.[/QUOTE] Actually, St. Patrick's Cross was added in 1800 when the Act of Union formally joined Ireland (the entire island) to the UK. It's just never been removed (since most of Ireland has become independent). I guess you [i]could[/i] say it represents Northern Ireland but that is not completely accurate.
[QUOTE=kebab52;32446375]Personally I'm not really for it, but I can understand why. Scottish people REALLY aren't keen on the conservatives. Miners strikes and stuff like that, we don't like being ruled by a party that's only got sixteen constituency's. [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/8495468/Scottish-Election-2011-results-map.html[/url] That say's something about the Scottish peoples opinion on being ruled by the conservatives.[/QUOTE] The north of England hates the conservatives but we aren't asking for England to get split in half.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32458137]The north of England hates the conservatives but we aren't asking for England to get split in half.[/QUOTE] Yeah, a wall would suffice.
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;32458875]Yeah, a wall would suffice.[/QUOTE] It's a shame Hadrian's wall is south of the border, otherwise we'd have one readymade.
Great Britain will be a little less great without you, Scotland. Weird as it sounds, I hate England but love Britain/the UK. I'll always put myself down as being "British" rather than "English".
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32458137]The north of England hates the conservatives but we aren't asking for England to get split in half.[/QUOTE] That's because you're not exactly going to call for a return to the days when north England was several countries ruled by different tribes, with the Picts and Scots holding Scotland to the North, because that's a lot more ancient history than a unified and seperate Scotland. We have a tradition of remembering when and still considering ourselves a different country from England (We are - two countries unified by one crown.) and long to return to that when we vote overwhelmingly against the dominant party yet they still manage to get a majority. That doesn't make them our government at all. In the same way that the SNP majority in the Scottish Parliament has nothing to do with England except where their policies affect the state of the Union.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;32460868]That's because you're not exactly going to call for a return to the days when north England was several countries ruled by different tribes, with the Picts and Scots holding Scotland to the North, because that's a lot more ancient history than a unified and seperate Scotland. We have a tradition of remembering when and still considering ourselves a different country from England (We are - two countries unified by one crown.) and long to return to that when we vote overwhelmingly against the dominant party yet they still manage to get a majority. That doesn't make them our government at all. In the same way that the SNP majority in the Scottish Parliament has nothing to do with England except where their policies affect the state of the Union.[/QUOTE] Technically the Tories didn't get a majority, in fact the only real reason Labour lost was because of Gordon Brown's incompetence.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;32460868]That's because you're not exactly going to call for a return to the days when north England was several countries ruled by different tribes, with the Picts and Scots holding Scotland to the North, because that's a lot more ancient history than a unified and seperate Scotland. We have a tradition of remembering when and still considering ourselves a different country from England (We are - two countries unified by one crown.) and long to return to that when we vote overwhelmingly against the dominant party yet they still manage to get a majority. That doesn't make them our government at all. In the same way that the SNP majority in the Scottish Parliament has nothing to do with England except where their policies affect the state of the Union.[/QUOTE] If you can't work with a democratic government you didn't vote for, that's your problem.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;32460868]the SNP majority in the Scottish Parliament has nothing to do with England[/QUOTE] actually no that's a load of crap west lothian question, I posted about it earlier
[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1ona3Tgt7w[/MEDIA] Seriously though, I wouldn't know. It would be cool but I don't know if the pros outweigh the cons.
[QUOTE=SnowCanary;32462866][MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1ona3Tgt7w[/MEDIA] Seriously though, I wouldn't know. It would be cool but I don't know if the pros outweigh the cons.[/QUOTE] It wouldn't be cool, it would be annoying as fuck.
[QUOTE=Caesar;32456020]I take [b]huge[/b] offence to that!! (Just joking). But seriously, our economy is just fine. We've just come off a huge boom that dramatically benefited our country and have just hit a small wall that we are doing grand with at the moment. In five or ten years, we'll probably be doing very well again. The point is that you can function absolutely fine separate from the UK, as we have done (and still do), so that example is a bad one. We earn higher wages on average to our UK counterparts (pay higher prices too unfortunately), and our country functions perfectly well. Sure, we've hit a stumbling block but what country doesn't at some stage or another? (Let's not forget that the UK was "bailed out" by the IMF in the 70s). Our economy grew at the second fastest pace in the entire Eurozone last quarter, too. Again, not necessarily. Ireland spends .06% of its GDP on defence (which is very little), and have a defence force of 10,000 troops or so, since we are a neutral country (which we can decide for ourselves as we are separate from the UK). I'm not saying that Scotland should go neutral or anything at all, but there are other options such as NATO. Plus, [i]if[/i] Scotland ever went independent, it's not like they would suddenly cut all ties with the UK. A common defence treaty could be easily established.[/QUOTE] You've played your cards well this time....
[QUOTE=blubafoon;32403127]I wonder how long it'll be before wales wants independence too. Not that I have a problem with that, I just worry about the economic implications.[/QUOTE] Wales doesn't want to be independent. Edit: Sorry, misread, I thought you said 'Get's independence' rather than 'want's independence', It's still very unlikely in the near future though. [editline]25th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;32442912]Wales is not represented on the Union Jack because it is not its own country (yet it [i]still[/i] gets its own parliament before England).[/QUOTE] No, it's because when the act of the union was put in place, wales was already unioned with england.
Wales has nothing in the way of an economy.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;32459798]Great Britain will be a little less great without you, Scotland. Weird as it sounds, I hate England but love Britain/the UK. I'll always put myself down as being "British" rather than "English".[/QUOTE] I agree with this so much. All I think of when I hear "England" is chavs and football for some reason. "Britain" conjures up an image of the British Army and stuff like that for me. Plus the Union Jack is way better than St. George's Cross. Sometimes I feel envious of Scots and Irishmen, they seem to have something to be patriotic about, whereas being patriotic about England just seems to make you seem like a bit of a twat.
[QUOTE=Mort and Charon;32475218]I agree with this so much. All I think of when I hear "England" is chavs and football for some reason. "Britain" conjures up an image of the British Army and stuff like that for me. Plus the Union Jack is way better than St. George's Cross. Sometimes I feel envious of Scots and Irishmen, they seem to have something to be patriotic about, whereas being patriotic about England just seems to make you seem like a bit of a twat.[/QUOTE] Don't be like that! England has many, many things to be proud of. England has a fantastic military history (to be proud of if you are English; to hate if your country has been conquered by England :smile:). Many of the world's greatest inventions and people have come from England, too many to count. The English language is considered the language of business!
[QUOTE=Caesar;32475661]Don't be like that! England has many, many things to be proud of. England has a fantastic military history (to be proud of if you are English; to hate if your country has been conquered by England :smile:). Many of the world's greatest inventions and people have come from England, too many to count. The English language is considered the language of business![/QUOTE] Military wise I see it as the British Army, if you look at all the Highland Battalions, the Royal Irish and stuff like that, they all played major parts in [i]Britain's[/i] military dominance.
[QUOTE=Mort and Charon;32475218]I agree with this so much. All I think of when I hear "England" is chavs and football for some reason. "Britain" conjures up an image of the British Army and stuff like that for me. Plus the Union Jack is way better than St. George's Cross. Sometimes I feel envious of Scots and Irishmen, they seem to have something to be patriotic about, whereas being patriotic about England just seems to make you seem like a bit of a twat.[/QUOTE] All I ever hear about Glasgow is chavs so Scotland isn't much better.
IMO Scotland is too silly to not be independent. England's just holding it back.
I think it would just be enormously impractical, nice idea, but both England+Wales+NI and Scotland would suffer from it.
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