• THE STATE OF THIS CHANNELâ„¢ - Jontron
    91 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Jack_Ghetto;52616504]MJ wasn't found guilty.[/QUOTE] Yeah, plus I would imagine that having terrible views on race wouldn't really be akin to actively molesting kids (Unless one was to act violently on those beliefs, of course).
[QUOTE=Skyward;52616311]Man I've never seen someone miss the mark so aggressively and frequently as you.[/QUOTE] You're waaay ahead of me on that scorecard by quite a bit, and it'll be literal years before I catch up. As to the subject at hand, You're going to find as you of through life most of the people whom put their lives on public perusal duty turn out to be flawed in many ways, and very few few of them will ever measure to up to any kind of revolving standard. Pursuant to that the guy in question rarely ever made his views extant until pressed and mostly kept them out of his general content. and as to statement I responded to in particular funktastic dog has a pretty public history of [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1573987"] sticking people on pedestals only to be all kinds of internet devastated[/URL] when it turns out, they are pretty much like everyone else and not a supposed paragon or moral rectitude. I love me some black metal, but I'd have to be an idiot to think all the racist statements and incidents over the last thirty years or so were "isolated incidents" or "unintended accidents". [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Don't bring in another user's post history as a defense for your argument. It's petty and stupid. You can do better." - Pascall))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=27X;52616817]You're waaay ahead of me on that scorecard by quite a bit, and it'll be literal years before I catch up. As to the subject at hand, You're going to find as you of through life most of the people whom put their lives on public perusal duty turn out to be flawed in many ways, and very few few of them will ever measure to up to any kind of revolving standard. Pursuant to that the guy in question rarely ever made his views extant until pressed and mostly kept them out of his general content. and as to statement I responded to in particular funktastic dog has a pretty public history of [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1573987"] sticking people on pedestals only to be all kinds of internet devastated[/URL] when it turns out, they are pretty much like everyone else and not a supposed paragon or moral rectitude.[/QUOTE] i'm pretty sure "not a racist" isn't a shining pedestal that only moral demigods can achieve
I'm willing to forgive and forget, people makes mistakes and learn from them, of course. But the one thing keeping me from looking past that is the whole "people don't want to hear uncomfortable facts" (something along those lines) explanation he had. It seemed more like he was apologizing for getting people upset by getting involved in politics instead of spouting of the blatantly false statements. Now I can't watch his stuff anymore without the thought creeping in the back of my mind: "Does this guy still think the 'rich blacks commit more crime that poor whites' is a statistic people are too PC to accept as truth?". I have nothing against anybody who still wants to watch his stuff, but personally I can't bring myself to do so.
[QUOTE=shadow_oap;52616327]His mistake was revealing himself as a ethno-nationalist. I don't really see how you can forgive him without him denouncing his own ideas. Sure, you can just forget it, but for me personally I can't. We've all already heard the quotes a million times about gene pools and what not. He not only made stupid comments, but he revealed his stupid beliefs, and you don't remove that by just staying quiet and pretending it never happened just because of the blowback. EDIT: And just to add, his beliefs go beyond just being "different". If he was just a social conservative for example I wouldn't give a shit.[/QUOTE] Am I allowed to watch him though?
[QUOTE=DiscoInferno;52616166]I personally will never forgive him for what he did He should have told Arin how to land on the platform[/QUOTE] "[I]It's nickelodeon guts on snes[/I]!
hulk hogan got his entire career washed away because of racist comments in a sex tape and people threw aside all principles to support him to give the middle finger to gawker anyway, jon making some stupid comments in a debate doesn't suddenly transform him into some sort of horrific entity completely undeserving of human fucking decency if you consider him racist, then that's your decision; going after others that continue to support him just turns you into a vindictive asshole trying to find an excuse to pick a battle over something no one wants to really fight about
Suffice it to say some people can separate Jon from his work, some people can't. Among those that can't, some can forget and/or forgive what he said and some can't. What category you fit into is gonna be personal, there's no point trying to convince people to feel any way other than how they do in this regard.
[QUOTE=Thomas Jefferson]I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend.[/QUOTE] Sometimes I wish people would be more private about their political and religious views because it's hard to like someone who you fundamentally disagree with on these levels. However, due to the current nature of our society, most are no longer very private about these things, with some becoming quite vocal, so it helps to be able to tolerate people that you don't see eye-to-eye with. I think I'll still be able to enjoy Jon's content despite disagreeing with his political views. I do the same with many others. (Also, I have friends who I strongly disagree with politically, religiously and philosophically.) As long as he doesn't turn into an ideologue who allows those views to poison his videos then that's fine by me. I can understand why some people won't, but for me I can disassociate an artist's beliefs from their work. It could be argued that Jon himself is central to his work, but you would be wrong. The Jon we see on screen is really only a character played by the actual Jon.
Sooo apparently he has three videos being worked on for a while, but he's apparently still tweaking them? Eh, I know what that's like, wanting to make sure things are good to ship. Still, I hope there's at least one that covers a video game. Don't get me wrong, I like the weird movie coverage (or whatever you call it), but I still miss the days when games were at the forefront. Hell, isn't the Pokemon Bootleg video one of his most-viewed videos? Yup, just checked and it's his #3 most viewed video at 13 million views, with the Plug and Play one being #2 at 14 million, and his cover of Firework at #1 with 17 million views.
[QUOTE=27X;52616817]and as to statement I responded to in particular funktastic dog has a pretty public history of [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1573987"] sticking people on pedestals only to be all kinds of internet devastated[/URL] when it turns out, they are pretty much like everyone else and not a supposed paragon or moral rectitude.[/QUOTE] Hahahaha, what the fuck??? This is hilarious for so many reasons. First that you remembered that I commented on that thread, second of all that you're trying to use it as ammunition against me, and third that you believe that me being upset at Nick's creepiness paints [i]me[/i] in a bad light.
[QUOTE=27X;52616817] and as to statement I responded to in particular funktastic dog has a pretty public history of [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1573987"] sticking people on pedestals only to be all kinds of internet devastated[/URL] when it turns out, they are pretty much like everyone else and not a supposed paragon or moral rectitude. [/QUOTE] You have a nasty habit of going after random, unconnected posts from people to try and edge out some sort of response...
Nah sorry, I just can't enjoy content from active racists. I tried, but it's so awkward to watch now.
[QUOTE=Darth Ninja;52616991]Sometimes I wish people would be more private about their political and religious views because it's hard to like someone who you fundamentally disagree with on these levels. However, due to the current nature of our society, most are no longer very private about these things, with some becoming quite vocal, so it helps to be able to tolerate people that you don't see eye-to-eye with. I think I'll still be able to enjoy Jon's content despite disagreeing with his political views. I do the same with many others. (Also, I have friends who I strongly disagree with politically, religiously and philosophically.) As long as he doesn't turn into an ideologue who allows those views to poison his videos then that's fine by me. I can understand why some people won't, but for me I can disassociate an artist's beliefs from their work. It could be argued that Jon himself is central to his work, but you would be wrong. The Jon we see on screen is really only a character played by the actual Jon.[/QUOTE] Like shadow_oap said, his opinions go beyond "just different." It's not as simple "we just simply believe in different politics," but instead stuff like "I don't think the gene pool should mix." Being able to separate that from his videos would be (and for some of you, is) great, but... I just feel uneasy about it, knowing that he's said stuff that, if put into practice, would be oppressive. [editline]26th August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52616328]I despise Jeremy Clarkson's views, but I still think Top Gear was a comedy masterpiece, in great part due to him. I can't deny that he's just a fantastic entertainer Jon doesn't include his views in his content like Clarkson does, I'll give him that. And he's pretty hilarious, too. But I'll be honest, it's a little harder to dissociate his content from his beliefs. In part, it's because Top Gear is completely aware of how Clarkson sounds, and plays up a caricature of him that you're often laughing [I]at[/I] as much as you're laughing with, while you go to JonTron if you like Jon. But then there's also the fact that Jon is an internet-savvy dude, barely older than me, instead of some car nut in his 50s. His ramblings feel a lot less excusable, because well, they are. He's got the means to better inform himself but still falls for obvious fearmongering. I sure hope I can enjoy his stuff again, but this political climate isn't helping in the slightest.[/QUOTE] Jon and Clarkson were both in the same state of "too big to fail." They're too famous to have a fall from grace. Clarkson is an asshole, for that assault. But because he's such a big name, he got away with it, essentially. People excuse people from a lot of shit just because they're famous. There's separating the art from the artist, but you also have to realize that by doing that, you're also kind of ignoring their (possibly major) flaws, and letting them get away stuff. Jon IMO got a much bigger hit, but I feel the concept still exists.
I can't forgive Jontron for the stuff he said... I mean look at this racist clip of him. [video=youtube;Abuh5nnuMIY]https://youtu.be/Abuh5nnuMIY[/video]
[QUOTE=Hogie bear;52616955]"[I]It's nickelodeon guts on snes[/I]![/QUOTE] oH OK wELL that maKES IT OK TheN
Jon, like many talented internet people, are really afraid to shake up their content with their creativity because they fear backlash. Jon is one of those people who are just kind of naturally funny, like Oney, I don't play any of the games on OneyPlays nor do I care about them but his personality is so funny and fresh, these types of people can just create humor from seemingly nowhere and are more consistently funny then what I see on TV. He needs to realize that while his show's structure and tone lend itself well to making good content, in the end his talent and creativity is what people come back to. Whatever direction or themes he wishes to take his content in, he himself will still be at the heart of it and that's what make good content, a talented and creative mind. tl;dr jon could do a show about anything and it'd still be good because he's a funny man.
I feel like it's not right to say he still [i]currently[/i] has these opinions when he's gone radio silent on everything political for about half a year. [i]Maybe[/i] he still has these ideas despite the backlash, maybe the backlash got him to reconsider his ideals, but right now the only people that can possibly know that are himself and the people he discusses politics with (if he still does). It's not like other people who make videos or blogs week after week for years sharing blatantly wrong ideas and ignoring anyone who says otherwise, this came out of nowhere and disappeared just as fast.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;52617197]Jon, like many talented internet people, are really afraid to shake up their content with their creativity because they fear backlash. Jon is one of those people who are just kind of naturally funny, like Oney, I don't play any of the games on OneyPlays nor do I care about them but his personality is so funny and fresh, these types of people can just create humor from seemingly nowhere and are more consistently funny then what I see on TV. He needs to realize that while his show's structure and tone lend itself well to making good content, in the end his talent and creativity is what people come back to. Whatever direction or themes he wishes to take his content in, he himself will still be at the heart of it and that's what make good content, a talented and creative mind. tl;dr jon could do a show about anything and it'd still be good because he's a funny man.[/QUOTE] Well it wasn't really his content, it was more him participating in various content like Breitbart and the heavy conservative sect of youtube. It wasn't the art people were mad with, it was the artist. While this example is entirely different in distinct ways, I love the works of H.P. Lovecraft and how it relates to who he was, but the man himself was fucked up. It's the best example that comes up in my head. You can loathe the person, but the art isn't necessarily guilty.
[QUOTE=AnnieOakley;52617225]Well it wasn't really his content, it was more him participating in various content like Breitbart and the heavy conservative sect of youtube. It wasn't the art people were mad with, it was the artist. While this example is entirely different in distinct ways, I love the works of H.P. Lovecraft and how it relates to who he was, but the man himself was fucked up. It's the best example that comes up in my head. You can loathe the person, but the art isn't necessarily guilty.[/QUOTE] what? what does this have to do with jon wanting to change the way he does his show? I was talking about how some people might not like the new direction for JTS but I think most people will watch because Jon is funny. edit: why are we talking about politics when the video the thread is about is about jon wanting to change the formula for his show?
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;52617113]Like shadow_oap said, his opinions go beyond "just different." It's not as simple "we just simply believe in different politics," but instead stuff like "I don't think the gene pool should mix." Being able to separate that from his videos would be (and for some of you, is) great, but... I just feel uneasy about it, knowing that he's said stuff that, if put into practice, would be oppressive.[/QUOTE] I politically disagree with J.K. Rowling yet I still love Harry Potter. H.P. Lovecraft was a notorious anti-semite and yet I still read his stories. Clint Eastwood is one of my favourite actors and great director, yet I'm pretty sure he supports Donald Trump. I'm currently reading a book written by Yukio Mishima, a Japanese right-wing nationalist who attempted a military coup in order to restore the Emperor to power. (To put all of this into context I'm a Liberal.) I honestly don't see the point of depriving yourself of entertainment because you don't align yourself with its creator. I would suggest to any who haven't read [I]Death of the Author[/I] by Roland Barthes to do so if you're interested. In it he talks about the creator and his/her work being unrelated since all writing (this can be applied to all artistic works) is and should be interpreted by the reader (audience). This is why I can still enjoy Jon's videos (as abhorrent as his views may be).
[QUOTE=Bernie Buddy;52617211]I feel like it's not right to say he still [i]currently[/i] has these opinions when he's gone radio silent on everything political for about half a year. [i]Maybe[/i] he still has these ideas despite the backlash, maybe the backlash got him to reconsider his ideals, but right now the only people that can possibly know that are himself and the people he discusses politics with (if he still does). It's not like other people who make videos or blogs week after week for years sharing blatantly wrong ideas and ignoring anyone who says otherwise, this came out of nowhere and disappeared just as fast.[/QUOTE] Doesn't mean he's obligated to talk about it anymore; it's pretty clear now that Jon genuinely regretted what he said anyways.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;52617113]Jon and Clarkson were both in the same state of "too big to fail." They're too famous to have a fall from grace. Clarkson is an asshole, for that assault. But because he's such a big name, he got away with it, essentially. People excuse people from a lot of shit just because they're famous. There's separating the art from the artist, but you also have to realize that by doing that, you're also kind of ignoring their (possibly major) flaws, and letting them get away stuff. Jon IMO got a much bigger hit, but I feel the concept still exists.[/QUOTE] oh I was talking about the climate change stuff, lol. somehow completely forgot about the thing that got clarkson fired
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;52616146]I dunno... I'm sure that the videos are still gonna be funny as ever, but it's just... it's not the same. That Destiny stream really took the magic out of Jon's videos for me. I just don't know if I can watch the guy after all those vile things he said.[/QUOTE] You'll keep watching it, just like how you'll keep consuming stuff based on lovecraft.
[QUOTE=Jack_Ghetto;52616504]MJ wasn't found guilty.[/QUOTE] Of all the arguments you could make, that was the dumbest one. Jon wasn't found guilty either, unless you mean guilty by public opinion, in which case Michael Jackson too was very, [i]very[/i] guilty. Jon said some retarded shit. We all said some retarded shit at some point in our lives. He recognized that what he said was retarded and apologized for it. I don't get why some people have this dumb "I will never forgive this guy for what he said" attitude. I read dumb shit all day. If I had to hate each person for it, I'd be spending my entire life hating people who said dumb shit on the internet.
[QUOTE=Crimor;52618278]You'll keep watching it, just like how you'll keep consuming stuff based on lovecraft.[/QUOTE] Not everyone reacts the same way to this sort of stuff.
[QUOTE=V12US;52618326]Of all the arguments you could make, that was the dumbest one. Jon wasn't found guilty either, unless you mean guilty by public opinion, in which case Michael Jackson too was very, [i]very[/i] guilty. Jon said some retarded shit. We all said some retarded shit at some point in our lives. He recognized that what he said was retarded and apologized for it. I don't get why some people have this dumb "I will never forgive this guy for what he said" attitude. I read dumb shit all day. If I had to hate each person for it, I'd be spending my entire life hating people who said dumb shit on the internet.[/QUOTE] He was guilty of saying the stupid shit that people were unhappy with him for. He wasn't just guilty in the court of public opinion. I still think his apology was underhanded and insincere. The message came off more as "I wasn't prepared to debate properly" as opposed to "I said dumb shit". He was apologizing more for [I]how[/I] he said things rather than apologizing for [I]what[/I] he was saying. And it's not unrealistic to harbor a distate for someone based on the things that they say and do. People give everything that could be labeled as a "political view" or "opinion" the benefit of the doubt, but the reality is that these views and opinions reflect on the nature of your character and who you are as a person. They aren't as simple and personal as something like "I prefer chocolate ice cream to vanilla". Down playing the significance of just what he said absolves him of criticism to a certain degree and makes the things he said seem like matters of personal opinion rather than being based in objective falsehoods. It normalizes a very harmful and dangerous ideology.
[QUOTE=V12US;52618326]Of all the arguments you could make, that was the dumbest one. Jon wasn't found guilty either, unless you mean guilty by public opinion, in which case Michael Jackson too was very, [i]very[/i] guilty. Jon said some retarded shit. We all said some retarded shit at some point in our lives. He recognized that what he said was retarded and apologized for it. I don't get why some people have this dumb "I will never forgive this guy for what he said" attitude. I read dumb shit all day. If I had to hate each person for it, I'd be spending my entire life hating people who said dumb shit on the internet.[/QUOTE] I don't think it's a good argument either, but you're missing the point. MJ didn't choose to be accused of being a child molester and he wasn't guilty of being a child molester. Jon didn't choose all the backlash but he did choose to stick to far-right talking points. Also, he didn't apologize, and he didn't say it was wrong, just that he didn't express it well. [editline]27th August 2017[/editline] And for the record, I think the way some people were asking for an apology was really weird and overbearing. I think Jon needs/needed to reconsider a lot of shit but I wouldn't say he should "give up his beliefs and repent" which is almost exactly the tone I was seeing from some, back then. Sorry for the radical centrist meme but I'll go ahead and say both sides had a less-than-stellar reaction to the whole ordeal
I've said it before but the main reason the reaction was so strong to some people was Jontron was a well liked figure before then. He made consistently funny videos and seemed like a cool guy, to find out that the man behind that believes in a load of fucked up stuff is disheartening and upsetting to people who beforehand considered him like a friend. Like if randy pitchford came out and said a load of messed up stuff about black people no one would care because no one likes him in the first place.
[QUOTE=General J;52617107]Nah sorry, I just can't enjoy content from active racists. I tried, but it's so awkward to watch now.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry for you not being able to enjoy a content from the best SS officer on the web. [video=youtube;-n437nMsd6Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n437nMsd6Q[/video]
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