• THE STATE OF THIS CHANNELâ„¢ - Jontron
    91 replies, posted
[QUOTE=V12US;52618326]Of all the arguments you could make, that was the dumbest one. Jon wasn't found guilty either, unless you mean guilty by public opinion, in which case Michael Jackson too was very, [i]very[/i] guilty. Jon said some retarded shit. We all said some retarded shit at some point in our lives. He recognized that what he said was retarded and apologized for it. I don't get why some people have this dumb "I will never forgive this guy for what he said" attitude. I read dumb shit all day. If I had to hate each person for it, I'd be spending my entire life hating people who said dumb shit on the internet.[/QUOTE] He never actually apologized for or rescinded any of the things he said though. What he said essentially boiled down to "sorry you got offended lol"
Does every thread about Jontron have to be about what he fucking said awhile ago on some stream,that shit happened give it a break. We've all said dumb shit and maybe a little bit too loud,but we later forget about it.
[QUOTE=weyu6572;52619352]Does every thread about Jontron have to be about what he fucking said awhile ago on some stream,that shit happened give it a break. We've all said dumb shit and maybe a little bit too loud,but we later forget about it.[/QUOTE] ... Dumb shit =/= Fear in immigrants entering our fucking gene pool
[QUOTE=weyu6572;52619352]Does every thread about Jontron have to be about what he fucking said awhile ago on some stream,that shit happened give it a break. We've all said dumb shit and maybe a little bit too loud,but we later forget about it.[/QUOTE] trying to equate someone going on a tirade about how america is a white country and blacks are criminals to awkward jokes and misstatements is fucking pathetic At least try to defend what he actually did, don't try to distort it into something minor and trivial. It was an hour and a half discussion where he stated this shit multiple times in multiple ways with absolute confidence, and not once has he ever indicated that he's changed his mind on any of the subjects he touched on. What bothers me isn't that people still like jontron, I really don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying his content. But pretending he didn't say a ton of racist shit, or pretending that his 'apology' video where he essentially just said 'I'm sorry you're offended' means he doesn't believe it anymore is just sad. No matter what you do or think or feel, at least accept reality. You can like R Kelly's music, just don't pretend the little girl behind him is covered in lemonade.
It's not so much, "JonTron is a racist so, I don't want to watch his videos anymore" as it is "Part of JonTron's appeal was being a pure cinnamon roll, and saying things like 'Colonialism was a net positive' kinda kills that image"
Was it? I thought the appeal of Jontron was that he was a funny guy, not the fact he is a pure soul.
[QUOTE=Zeos;52619470]... Dumb shit =/= Fear in immigrants entering our fucking gene pool[/QUOTE] That is exactly what "dumb shit" means.
[QUOTE=weyu6572;52619352]Does every thread about Jontron have to be about what he fucking said awhile ago on some stream,that shit happened give it a break. We've all said dumb shit and maybe a little bit too loud,but we later forget about it.[/QUOTE] I've already said I'm fine with dissociating the art from the artist, but I also think this "We all say dumb things!" spin is really weird. You make it sound like this is like getting in an argument with a friend one time or getting drunk and saying some obnoxious shit, instead of deeply held political beliefs that shape you as a person [editline]27th August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Arc Nova;52619675]Was it? I thought the appeal of Jontron was that he was a funny guy, not the fact he is a pure soul.[/QUOTE] It's less about "pure" and more about how relatable he is
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52616328]I despise Jeremy Clarkson's views, but I still think Top Gear was a comedy masterpiece, in great part due to him. I can't deny that he's just a fantastic entertainer Jon doesn't include his views in his content like Clarkson does, I'll give him that. And he's pretty hilarious, too. But I'll be honest, it's a little harder to dissociate his content from his beliefs. In part, it's because Top Gear is completely aware of how Clarkson sounds, and plays up a caricature of him that you're often laughing [I]at[/I] as much as you're laughing with, while you go to JonTron if you like Jon. But then there's also the fact that Jon is an internet-savvy dude, barely older than me, instead of some car nut in his 50s. His ramblings feel a lot less excusable, because well, they are. He's got the means to better inform himself but still falls for obvious fearmongering. I sure hope I can enjoy his stuff again, but this political climate isn't helping in the slightest.[/QUOTE]The difference between Jon and Clarkson is that Jon is the protagonist in his own work, and Clarkson isn't. In Top Gear, where all three leads are foils to each other, Clarkson is a grumpy old man, and you can incorporate his weird and off-putting views into his character. You're not explicitly [i]supposed[/i] to [i]like[/i] Jeremy.
[QUOTE=simkas;52619681]That is exactly what "dumb shit" means.[/QUOTE] Their point is dumb shit is often used to coin when you say something offhand that didn't really have any thought behind it. If Jon thought what he said was dumb shit, he would've said that, instead he just said "Sorry you got offended by my uncomfortable statistics."
[QUOTE=Dr. Doughnut;52619816]Their point is dumb shit is often used to coin when you say something offhand that didn't really have any thought behind it. If Jon thought what he said was dumb shit, he would've said that, instead he just said "Sorry you got offended by my uncomfortable statistics."[/QUOTE] Yeah exactly. It's really funny reading all these posts like "everyone says dumb shit" yeah mate as in there was this one time where I told the entire class that I thought we were all cattle raised by aliens and they'll come to harvest any time soon. I didn't fucking tell the brown ones to get a vasectomy to stop them from cumming all over the gene pool or whatever the fuck
[QUOTE=simkas;52619681]That is exactly what "dumb shit" means.[/QUOTE] That's not what he meant by "dumb shit" and you know it. The connotation is that they were just "dumb little awkward comments we all make sometimes haha right guys?" Yeah, we all make dumb shitposts sometimes that make us look stupid. But are you seriously going to tell me that every now and then you just randomly say a bunch of shit about how brown people shouldn't be allowed in the country and black people are just genetically more violent than white people? Things like that aren't just "some dumb shit we all say that we forget about later."
[QUOTE=Geikkamir;52620051]That's not what he meant by "dumb shit" and you know it. The connotation is that they were just "dumb little awkward comments we all make sometimes haha right guys?" [/QUOTE] Please prove that.
[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;52620066]Please prove that.[/QUOTE] I don't have to "prove" anything, that's literally what he said. [QUOTE=weyu6572;52619352]We've all said dumb shit and maybe a little bit too loud,but we later forget about it.[/QUOTE] What other possible interpretation of this statement is there other than "All that racist shit JonTron said is totally normal and we all say stuff like that sometimes it's no big deal totally not out of the ordinary at all everyone please just forget about it nothing to see here" It could not more obviously be trying to downplay what JonTron said as "just some ordinary awkward stuff that everyone says from time to time haha!"
[QUOTE=J!NX;52616302]someone being a racist takes the wind out of a mans sails when it comes to enjoying that persons content it makes that man a racist I'm just going to assume you poorly worded this, because it makes nooooo sense[/QUOTE] Jon was funny before we all knew he was racist, and so was Michael Richards (Kramer on Seinfeld). Jon's comedy isn't any less funny and neither was Richards, because Seinfeld has made literal billions in syndication. Its pretty silly to find someone suddenly not funny because of some bad opinions they have.
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;52619675]Was it? I thought the appeal of Jontron was that he was a funny guy, not the fact he is a pure soul.[/QUOTE] I could have a buddy who's really funny, fun to hang out with, tells good jokes, just good enough at Mario Kart that I can beat him but it's a challenge. And he casually says things like "yeah, fucking nigger," or "man, I don't know why everyone's upset about Charlettesville," or other "offensive" things along those lines. Not even an offensive joke like "Oh, I thought you said [I]gas the Jews,"[/I] but something like "I think Jews have their hands in too much, really" or "I really don't think people should mix races." It's going to be... A bit difficult to want to hang out with him, more. He's still funny! He's still fun! But... Things are a bit uncomfortable.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;52620319]I could have a buddy who's really funny, fun to hang out with, tells good jokes, just good enough at Mario Kart that I can beat him but it's a challenge. And he casually says things like "yeah, fucking nigger," or "man, I don't know why everyone's upset about Charlettesville," or other "offensive" things along those lines. Not even an offensive joke like "Oh, I thought you said [I]gas the Jews,"[/I] but something like "I think Jews have their hands in too much, really" or "I really don't think people should mix races." It's going to be... A bit difficult to want to hang out with him, more. He's still funny! He's still fun! But... Things are a bit uncomfortable.[/QUOTE] That reminds me of Daryl from Peep Show. [video=youtube;PiLVAz-Jczg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiLVAz-Jczg[/video]
Why is everyone in here using quotation marks for indirect speech?
Regardless of how people feel about the situation, its going to be annoying as shit to have the fact he said racist things brought up on [I]every single video[/I] that gets posted here from now on, and we're going to have to go through this same conversation every single time. It'd be nice if people actually talked about the video instead of x bad thing that a well known person has done. What's even the point of doing so, really? All it does is derail the thread in my opinion. Yeah sure, it's about the guy who made the video but that's the farthest it goes in terms of being relevant, its not like Jon is actively being racist in this video or even talking about the situation in any way. And it's not like anything productive comes out of it, the people who didn't like what he said and no longer enjoy his content because of that, and the people that don't care aren't going to change their minds. So why even bother feeling the need to bring it up in the first place?
[QUOTE=Zeos;52619470]... Dumb shit =/= Fear in immigrants entering our fucking gene pool[/QUOTE] Why do people do this every time Jontron comes up? He didn't say non-white people entering "genepool" is a bad thing. As fucked up as even bringing this up is, he didn't say it's a bad thing. He said people would be "free to chose" if they wanted to marry someone from a different race. He doesn't see a problem with it. [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RQA9GZprqM&feature=youtu.be&t=3731[/url] for reference. Why do people have to make shit up to make him look even worse? As if the things he [U]actually[/U] said aren't bad enough. Jon is a racist who thinks certain races are predisposed to certain behaviors. And that's what he should be called out for.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;52620887]Why do people do this every time Jontron comes up? He didn't say non-white people entering "genepool" is a bad thing. As fucked up as even bringing this up is, he didn't say it's a bad thing. He said people would be "free to chose" if they wanted to marry someone from a different race. He doesn't see a problem with it. [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RQA9GZprqM&feature=youtu.be&t=3731[/url] for reference. Why do people have to make shit up to make him look even worse? As if the things he [U]actually[/U] said aren't bad enough. Jon is a racist who thinks certain races are predisposed to certain behaviors. And that's what he should be called out for.[/QUOTE] .... if he thinks certain races are predisposed to bad behaviors then wouldn't it logically follow that those people entering the white gene pool would be a bad thing :v
[QUOTE=V12US;52618326] Jon said some retarded shit. We all said some retarded shit at some point in our lives. He recognized that what he said was retarded and apologized for it.[/QUOTE] No no no, this is what gets me and where I disagree with a lot of people. He didn't apologize; he uploaded a smug, thinly veiled cop-out of a video where he blamed other people for not understanding him under the guise of an apology. Jon hasn't learned anything, except maybe not to act so cocky when debating something he clearly doesn't know very much about. I can appreciate Lovecraft or Robert E Howard despite their racism because they lived a hundred years ago and are now dead. Most people thought that way back then and if they were still alive I would have expected them to have educated themselves by now. Jon lives in the goddamn 21st century so he doesn't have an excuse for believing this stuff in the first place. The flaws in Jon's arguments have been pointed out thousands of times and he [I]still[/I] hasn't given any indication that he's actually changed his mind at all, or that he's owned up to his stupidity. I can understand people separating an artist from their work; enjoy what you like regardless of who made it. But I'm sick of people trying to excuse what he said as a moment of weakness, when this is clearly something he still believes.
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;52616146]I dunno... I'm sure that the videos are still gonna be funny as ever, but it's just... it's not the same. That Destiny stream really took the magic out of Jon's videos for me. I just don't know if I can watch the guy after all those vile things he said.[/QUOTE] We have this, we also have people that still try to remember TotalBiscuit's "i hope you die of cancer" tweet. I mean, they aren't your fucking exes, why do you even fondle the past? Focus on present.
Plenty of creators have bad opinions, this is why you shouldn't filter what you're experiencing based solely on the bloke who made it. If you can't work with basic notions of work/artist dissociation then you're the one to blame.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;52620887]Why do people do this every time Jontron comes up? He didn't say non-white people entering "genepool" is a bad thing. As fucked up as even bringing this up is, he didn't say it's a bad thing. He said people would be "free to chose" if they wanted to marry someone from a different race. He doesn't see a problem with it. [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RQA9GZprqM&feature=youtu.be&t=3731[/url] for reference. Why do people have to make shit up to make him look even worse? As if the things he [U]actually[/U] said aren't bad enough. Jon is a racist who thinks certain races are predisposed to certain behaviors. And that's what he should be called out for.[/QUOTE] they're not making shit up though, you literally posted a clip of him expressing fear in immigrants entering the gene pool. He did also later say that people should be free to marry people of other races, but it's definitely not "making shit up" to point out that he said what he did.
[QUOTE=1STrandomman;52624588]they're not making shit up though, you literally posted a clip of him expressing fear in immigrants entering the gene pool. He did also later say that people should be free to marry people of other races, but it's definitely not "making shit up" to point out that he said what he did.[/QUOTE] You will have to break it down to me how he expressed the fear there. Like where is he worried about it happening when a few seconds later he said "people should be free to marry people of other races" like it's not an issue to him at all. Just because he said "they will enter the genepool" doesn't mean he thinks it's a bad thing. Both me and Destiny think he was going to say they will become "less brown" or some other horrible shit like that.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52624526]Plenty of creators have bad opinions, this is why you shouldn't filter what you're experiencing based solely on the bloke who made it. If you can't work with basic notions of work/artist dissociation then you're the one to blame.[/QUOTE] you worded it better than me, yes :D
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;52624619]You will have to break it down to me how he expressed the fear there. Like where is he worried about it happening when a few seconds later he said "people should be free to marry people of other races" like it's not an issue to him at all.[/QUOTE] you said yourself, he said it a few seconds before he said the other stuff. Destiny literally asks him "but would there be a problem if they assimilated to the culture?" and Jon responds "but if they assimilated they would enter the gene pool eventually..." [quote]Just because he said "they will enter the genepool" doesn't mean he thinks it's a bad thing.[/quote] yeah, if you remove the 'but' then it sounds like he's merely stating a fact instead of presenting that fact as an objection. He may not have literally said "it's bad" but he was clearly implying that it would mean something he considers bad. [quote]Both me and Destiny think he was going to say they will become "less brown" or some other horrible shit like that.[/quote] I think he was pretty obviously alluding to white genocide. I really don't get how you would think "become white" is even a possibility there (no offense; that goes for Destiny, too). The only thing he said that would conflict with this interpretation is that he's against anti-miscegenation laws, but all that really means is that he's against that particular method of dealing with the 'problem' now I'll admit that there's enough wiggle room there that he might have meant something else entirely, but it really doesn't change the fact that he said what he did the way that he did. [editline]1[/editline] he kind of spent the entire time talking about white genocide anyway. He mainly stuck to more abstract PC terms like "displacement" but it all means the same thing.
[QUOTE=1STrandomman;52624786]you said yourself, he said it a few seconds before he said the other stuff. Destiny literally asks him "but would there be a problem if they assimilated to the culture?" and Jon responds "but if they assimilated they would enter the gene pool eventually..." yeah, if you remove the 'but' then it sounds like he's merely stating a fact instead of presenting that fact as an objection. He may not have literally said "it's bad" but he was clearly implying that it would mean something he considers bad. I think he was pretty obviously alluding to white genocide. I really don't get how you would think "become white" is even a possibility there (no offense; that goes for Destiny, too). The only thing he said that would conflict with this interpretation is that he's against anti-miscegenation laws, but all that really means is that he's against that particular method of dealing with the 'problem' now I'll admit that there's enough wiggle room there that he might have meant something else entirely, but it really doesn't change the fact that he said what he did the way that he did. [editline]1[/editline] he kind of spent the entire time talking about white genocide anyway. He mainly stuck to more abstract PC terms like "displacement" but it all means the same thing.[/QUOTE] As far as I remember and correct me if I'm wrong but I think before those quotes they were talking about how certain races are predisposed to certain behaviors and that's where from my and Destiny's assumption comes from. To me it seemed like he was going to say something like if they assimilated they would enter the gene pool eventually and they wouldn't be as brown or some shit like that and therefore they wouldn't really count. Or some other ignorant crap like that. Even if I'm wrong and you are correct, Jon still wouldn't be worried about the superior white gene pool getting polluted by brown people rather that there would be less white people in the future. Now I'm not saying that's a valid concern or argument. The only argument that I'm making is that he specifically is not worried about non-white immigrants entering the gene pool.
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