h3h3 - We're at an Important Crossroad in our Lives
92 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Lucinice;52146425]This is why you don't put your eggs in someone else's basket. You can't just rely on youtube ads for revenue.[/QUOTE]
Exactly and its not like you can do anything about it. If companies don't want their ads on shit, then they don't. Nothing you can do.
Its not like you really have a boss here its just a video uploading site.
Should have reopened his patreon page.
Speaking of which, is patreon recommended if you're a small youtuber trying to find a part-time job? or... if you're just a small youtuber?
[QUOTE=SassPD22;52148868]Should have reopened his patreon page.
Speaking of which, is patreon recommended if you're a small youtuber trying to find a part-time job? or... if you're just a small youtuber?[/QUOTE]
If you're small, you need a very involved subscriber base or really high quality content. Else you will barely get anything.
[QUOTE=RB33;52148922]If you're small, you need a very involved subscriber base or really high quality content. Else you will barely get anything.[/QUOTE]
I'd argue that you need both, which is like finding a needle in a dozen haystacks.
And in this thread I learned that
a) You should never make money off of what you love, even if you have the means to
b) You should never put all your eggs in someone else's basket, even though that's what you do if you ever work a job in your life. Whether you work at a gas station or some major production company (or even creating content [I]for[/I] YouTube), you're at the risk of being fired/let go.
Now, h3h3 could've been diversifying, sure, but it's human nature to get comfortable and find that special place where you can do the work that you want to do. I'm excited for them to shake things up but, at the same time, I hate to see anyone suffer because their living is pulled out from under them without any real warning or explanation.
Some insights from TotalBiscuit
[media]https://soundcloud.com/totalbiscuit/h3h3-productions-and-the-state-of-youtube-advertising[/media]
TL;DL: H3H3 is probably considererd by Google as a "drama"-channel and thus not a preferred channel, which in turn makes them receive less ads.
[QUOTE=NoOneKnowsMe;52149089]Some insights from TotalBiscuit
[media]https://soundcloud.com/totalbiscuit/h3h3-productions-and-the-state-of-youtube-advertising[/media]
TL;DL: H3H3 is probably considererd by Google as a "drama"-channel and thus not a preferred channel, [B]which in turn makes them receive less ads.[/B][/QUOTE]
Which in turn again makes them produce more drama to get more views to make up for the lost revenue :v:
[QUOTE=SassPD22;52148868]
Speaking of which, is patreon recommended if you're a small youtuber trying to find a part-time job? or... if you're just a small youtuber?[/QUOTE]
My personal recommendation, if you're considering a Patreon (for [b]anything[/b], not just YouTube), is to make it, dedicate whatever time and effort you want into it, and expect to get absolutely nothing out of it.
It helps a [b]lot[/b] if you have people who already want to donate to financially support you. That's why I started my Patreon - I got tired of telling people I don't accept donations, and just set up a Patreon for people to throw their money at.
Over time, I started utilizing and advertising it more, and fast-forward a few months and I make my living off it.
But there's a lot of factors that go into it: the work that I do (3d porn) is a field that has a generally higher donation-per-viewer threshold than most fields (because people love porn while being paradoxically afraid to make it, generating a high-demand-low-supply vacuum; furry porn is notorious for this, and while 3d porn isn't nearly as high as furry porn is in that regard, it's still notably high); I was one of the first people to get into the SFM porn scene (seeding my name with viewers, giving an edge over newer artists); I was and am highly prolific in both the animations scene and the model-making scene (if you've ever seen SFM porn, there's a good chance it uses at least one model I put out); and I focus on a niche that few artists do (narrative-heavy consensual rough sex).
I started my Patreon about 3 years after I entered the scene, and it took about another year before it really became substantial. Another half-year after that (so about 5 years after I entered the scene, and about 18 months after I started the Patreon) is when it finally became substantial enough to both live on and fund further, larger productions.
In short, I highly suggest Patreon and I think [b]every[/b] artist should have one; but at the same time, I absolutely recommend [b]against[/b] anyone having the mentality of "I will live off my Patreon and I don't need a job." You're at the mercy of market powers when you take that risk, and it's far more likely to hurt you than it is to work in your favor.
So I personally recommend you make your Patreon, but continue operating financially as if you never even heard of Patreon.
[b]AS AN ASIDE[/b], I also personally recommend using your Patreon as "bonus features", and not a "pay wall". Keep your core work, the heart of your effort, free and public for all. Instead, have the Patreon rewards be things like 5-days-early-access, bloopers, work-in-progress updates as you develop your art, behind-the-scenes stuff, alternative takes on the core work (I don't know what that'd be for YouTube, but for art that can be simple things like different backgrounds or different outfits or something), higher resolutions, and such. Don't beat your viewers over the head with a "You have to pay me you fucking freeloaders" - incentivize them with a "You like this stuff, and want to see more?". No one likes being sold to - but everyone loves being catered to.
That's my personal opinion on how Patreon should be used, anyways. That's how [b]I[/b] use it.
[QUOTE=LordAardvark;52149426]My personal recommendation, if you're considering a Patreon (for [b]anything[/b], not just YouTube), is to make it, dedicate whatever time and effort you want into it, and expect to get absolutely nothing out of it.
It helps a [b]lot[/b] if you have people who already want to donate to financially support you. That's why I started my Patreon - I got tired of telling people I don't accept donations, and just set up a Patreon for people to throw their money at.
Over time, I started utilizing and advertising it more, and fast-forward a few months and I make my living off it.
But there's a lot of factors that go into it: the work that I do (3d porn) is a field that has a generally higher donation-per-viewer threshold than most fields (because people love porn while being paradoxically afraid to make it, generating a high-demand-low-supply vacuum; furry porn is notorious for this, and while 3d porn isn't nearly as high as furry porn is in that regard, it's still notably high); I was one of the first people to get into the SFM porn scene (seeding my name with viewers, giving an edge over newer artists); I was and am highly prolific in both the animations scene and the model-making scene (if you've ever seen SFM porn, there's a good chance it uses at least one model I put out); and I focus on a niche that few artists do (narrative-heavy consensual rough sex).
I started my Patreon about 3 years after I entered the scene, and it took about another year before it really became substantial. Another half-year after that (so about 5 years after I entered the scene, and about 18 months after I started the Patreon) is when it finally became substantial enough to both live on and fund further, larger productions.
In short, I highly suggest Patreon and I think [b]every[/b] artist should have one; but at the same time, I absolutely recommend [b]against[/b] anyone having the mentality of "I will live off my Patreon and I don't need a job." You're at the mercy of market powers when you take that risk, and it's far more likely to hurt you than it is to work in your favor.
So I personally recommend you make your Patreon, but continue operating financially as if you never even heard of Patreon.
[b]AS AN ASIDE[/b], I also personally recommend using your Patreon as "bonus features", and not a "pay wall". Keep your core work, the heart of your effort, free and public for all. Instead, have the Patreon rewards be things like 5-days-early-access, bloopers, work-in-progress updates as you develop your art, behind-the-scenes stuff, alternative takes on the core work (I don't know what that'd be for YouTube, but for art that can be simple things like different backgrounds or different outfits or something), higher resolutions, and such. Don't beat your viewers over the head with a "You have to pay me you fucking freeloaders" - incentivize them with a "You like this stuff, and want to see more?". No one likes being sold to - but everyone loves being catered to.
That's my personal opinion on how Patreon should be used, anyways. That's how [b]I[/b] use it.[/QUOTE]
So do you think it makes a difference whether you start a patreon the same time you begin or when you have a more substantial viewerbase?
For example, if someone started a youtube channel or art page, will it make a difference if they start a patreon at the same time they start their channel and consistently advertise it vs starting a patreon when they have 10,000 or 100,000 subscribers or whatever? Essentially doing the same thing you suggest, but at different times.
[QUOTE=LordAardvark;52149426]My personal recommendation, if you're considering a Patreon (for [b]anything[/b], not just YouTube), is to make it, dedicate whatever time and effort you want into it, and expect to get absolutely nothing out of it.
It helps a [b]lot[/b] if you have people who already want to donate to financially support you. That's why I started my Patreon - I got tired of telling people I don't accept donations, and just set up a Patreon for people to throw their money at.
Over time, I started utilizing and advertising it more, and fast-forward a few months and I make my living off it.
But there's a lot of factors that go into it: the work that I do (3d porn) is a field that has a generally higher donation-per-viewer threshold than most fields (because people love porn while being paradoxically afraid to make it, generating a high-demand-low-supply vacuum; furry porn is notorious for this, and while 3d porn isn't nearly as high as furry porn is in that regard, it's still notably high); I was one of the first people to get into the SFM porn scene (seeding my name with viewers, giving an edge over newer artists); I was and am highly prolific in both the animations scene and the model-making scene (if you've ever seen SFM porn, there's a good chance it uses at least one model I put out); and I focus on a niche that few artists do (narrative-heavy consensual rough sex).
I started my Patreon about 3 years after I entered the scene, and it took about another year before it really became substantial. Another half-year after that (so about 5 years after I entered the scene, and about 18 months after I started the Patreon) is when it finally became substantial enough to both live on and fund further, larger productions.
In short, I highly suggest Patreon and I think [b]every[/b] artist should have one; but at the same time, I absolutely recommend [b]against[/b] anyone having the mentality of "I will live off my Patreon and I don't need a job." You're at the mercy of market powers when you take that risk, and it's far more likely to hurt you than it is to work in your favor.
So I personally recommend you make your Patreon, but continue operating financially as if you never even heard of Patreon.
[b]AS AN ASIDE[/b], I also personally recommend using your Patreon as "bonus features", and not a "pay wall". Keep your core work, the heart of your effort, free and public for all. Instead, have the Patreon rewards be things like 5-days-early-access, bloopers, work-in-progress updates as you develop your art, behind-the-scenes stuff, alternative takes on the core work (I don't know what that'd be for YouTube, but for art that can be simple things like different backgrounds or different outfits or something), higher resolutions, and such. Don't beat your viewers over the head with a "You have to pay me you fucking freeloaders" - incentivize them with a "You like this stuff, and want to see more?". No one likes being sold to - but everyone loves being catered to.
That's my personal opinion on how Patreon should be used, anyways. That's how [b]I[/b] use it.[/QUOTE]
Thanks.
Maybe if i get 500 more subs, i think about it.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52149542]So do you think it makes a difference whether you start a patreon the same time you begin or when you have a more substantial viewerbase?
For example, if someone started a youtube channel or art page, will it make a difference if they start a patreon at the same time they start their channel and consistently advertise it vs starting a patreon when they have 10,000 or 100,000 subscribers or whatever? Essentially doing the same thing you suggest, but at different times.[/QUOTE]
I don't see any [b]inherent[/b] harm with starting a Patreon at the very beginning, but it very much has to do with how you handle it.
If you're a brand-new greenhorn whose skills and production-value reflect your freshness, and you launch straight off the starting line with all cannons broadsiding, paywalling content and aggressively marketing your Patreon while constantly bringing up how you can't afford to do anything without it and how you deserve your viewers' support, then it won't go well for you.
In fact, I have seen new artists do exactly that, and the blowback is almost always phenomenal. I have seen very few things that kill off a new artist's reputation than bouncing out the gate acting like hot shit and that the world owes them money. And I do mean [b]reputation[/b], and not livelihood - even [b]months[/b] after some of these artists apologized and shut down their Patreons, I see wide-ranging boycotts and rumor-mills about "That new guy who paywalled everything." There are people who follow similar artists who downright refuse to support those former-hot-shots out of mere principle, because they, at one time, ran their Patreon into the ground.
I've even see it happen to well-established animators, people who have larger fan-bases than I myself do - they stopped the content-drip cold-turkey, shoving virtually all of their work behind paywalls, putting huge "Patrons don't get these huge watermarks" watermarks on what little content they still release for free, and completely ignoring their fanbase as a whole and only making things that their highest-paying Patrons ask for. They still seem to make enough to be satisfied, since most of them continue to do it, but the amount of vitriol they've built for themselves amongst their followers is astounding, and they too become victims to the rumor mill, where people who once liked their work actively stop following them and spreading the word about "the guy who now paywalls everything and ignores his core fanbase".
I've even see such artists go so far as to prowl the various collection websites, like rule34hentai and even pornhub, and actively demanding their paywalled content - which, mind you, they used to release for free and has absolutely no change in quality since their paywalling - be taken down. Which is the single worst thing you could do, judging from the blowback I've seen from artists doing that (including a fair bit of spite-dumping, where people go out of their way to release [b]everything[/b] that artist had paywalled, with a clear "fuck you" message attached).
But if you keep the Patreon on the down-low, and do the things I recommended - don't paywall, don't advertise it aggressively, and don't treat it like you need it - then I don't see any harm in it.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;52146432]my point is though, it wasn't their livelihood when they started out, they made videos out of pure passion/a desire to make people laugh. i understand they've put all of their eggs into the online basket (which is kinda unwise imo) but this video (to me) comes across as really whiny.[/QUOTE]
"I love my job but I can't keep doing it because it's stopped making me money, I am therefore adapting my job to still be what I live but also make me money."
What exactly is wrong with that?
[QUOTE=Rossy167;52149928]"I love my job but I can't keep doing it because it's stopped making me money, I am therefore adapting my job to still be what I live but also make me money."
What exactly is wrong with that?[/QUOTE]
What's wrong with that is that the person clearly doesn't understand/believe creative entrepreneurs should be compensated in any meaningful way without the risk of having their house set on fire.
I cannot watch H3 anymore he's gone right down the toilet
I'm honestly tired of Ethan bitching about everything. He always goes on these pseudo-intellectual rants but he never has any evidence or research to back it up. He keeps talking about topics in which he has no clue about and it's seriously getting old. I'm tired of some random yahoo acting like he knows shit. I mean even compare this to the TB soundcloud and he actually knows what he's talking about and backs it up with evidence, not just "believe me guys".
I'm also pretty sure he's a California native, and as a person who's also from there I've met tons of people who act just like him in this way.
In fact I'll put my money where my mouth is and actually detail which ones are like this as of late:
[I]WSJ video[/I] This one was so obviously wrong that they removed it, [I]Is Youtube Over?[/I] a bunch of mindless speculation with a bunch of emotionally based quips even though his subject has merit, [I]Sold to the Highest Bidder[/I] a bunch of fear mongering about hypotheticals (I don't even think he read the bill), [I]We're Still Being Sued[/I] he again acts like he inherently knows better with this "believe me, these lawyers that are overcharging us for ridiculous fees is how it works!" instead of just explaining that he is willing to put up with this because the attorneys themselves are the best fit for him, and finally I'm going to mention the time he actually did this correctly. The CS:GO video was well made, well researched, and used evidence correctly. If all of the videos I mentioned previously were like this one I would have no problems with it even if he wasn't an expert on the topic before making them. He has the capacity to do this but instead he keeps churning out these low-effort videos that only work on the surface level. If you dig deeper you notice how easily it falls apart.
[QUOTE=Destroyox;52151218]
I'm also pretty sure he's a California native, and as a person who's also from there I've met tons of people who act just like him in this way.[/QUOTE]
Had to look it up but yeah he was born in Ventura, California
I feel like the problem with someone coming out with a YouTube 'killer' is that behind the scenes, YouTube is so massive. YT Recommendations alone has so much work put into it. Services integration is huge, and so much of YouTube works very well with itself. Not to mention it has Google money keeping it afloat. There's a reason services like Vessel and Vimeo never got the chance to 'take off' like YouTube did.
As someone who dabbles in web design/services I wouldn't mind taking a shot at it, but the infrastructure that's needed for something like YouTube is, quite frankly, fucking massive, which makes coming out with a competitor a little more than just coding the front-end.
[QUOTE=Zombii;52151296]I feel like the problem with someone coming out with a YouTube 'killer' is that behind the scenes, YouTube is so massive. YT Recommendations alone has so much work put into it. Services integration is huge, and so much of YouTube works very well with itself. Not to mention it has Google money keeping it afloat. There's a reason services like Vessel and Vimeo never got the chance to 'take off' like YouTube did.
As someone who dabbles in web design/services I wouldn't mind taking a shot at it, but the infrastructure that's needed for something like YouTube is, quite frankly, fucking massive, which makes coming out with a competitor a little more than just coding the front-end.[/QUOTE]
I used to think a Youtube killer was impossible and it still kinda is for 95% of youtube videos. However, I do think if a site was set up properly they could host the really popular Youtubers like H3 or Pewdiepie. You'd have to limit who could upload though to only allow for these big videos rather than your servers being over-flooded with trash. If there was a payment required for uploading videos or a manual whitelist it could mitigate that. You just make a video player better than or on par with Youtube and have videos released there early. It wouldn't be that hard to migrate over existing audiences with that.
[QUOTE=Destroyox;52151338]I used to think a Youtube killer was impossible and it still kinda is for 95% of youtube videos. However, I do think if a site was set up properly they could host the really popular Youtubers like H3 or Pewdiepie. You'd have to limit who could upload though to only allow for these big videos rather than your servers being over-flooded with trash. If there was a payment required for uploading videos or a manual whitelist it could mitigate that. You just make a video player better than or on par with Youtube and have videos released there early. It wouldn't be that hard to migrate over existing audiences with that.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't that lose it a ton of popularity though? I thought a huge part of what makes Youtube interesting is that anyone can post and upload a video, and that it isn't just this collection of only big popular famous people.
[QUOTE=Destroyox;52151338]I used to think a Youtube killer was impossible and it still kinda is for 95% of youtube videos. However, I do think if a site was set up properly they could host the really popular Youtubers like H3 or Pewdiepie. You'd have to limit who could upload though to only allow for these big videos rather than your servers being over-flooded with trash. If there was a payment required for uploading videos or a manual whitelist it could mitigate that. You just make a video player better than or on par with Youtube and have videos released there early. It wouldn't be that hard to migrate over existing audiences with that.[/QUOTE]
There have been a variety of "better" video sharing sites that have all failed because the point of YouTube is to engage people and have them watch all kinds of bullshit for a very long time. If you're just going to have a handful of curated content creators, you're going to have almost no content, and there's little incentive for people to stay on the site after watching their daily/weekly video.
A lot of content creators do the "you can watch my videos 1-2 weeks/month earlier on XYZ site!" and even if the site is free, it almost always fails. People watch YouTube. They don't want to go out of their way to watch a certain content creator.
[QUOTE=Zombii;52151296]I feel like the problem with someone coming out with a YouTube 'killer' is that behind the scenes, YouTube is so massive. YT Recommendations alone has so much work put into it. Services integration is huge, and so much of YouTube works very well with itself. Not to mention it has Google money keeping it afloat. There's a reason services like Vessel and Vimeo never got the chance to 'take off' like YouTube did.
As someone who dabbles in web design/services I wouldn't mind taking a shot at it, but the infrastructure that's needed for something like YouTube is, quite frankly, fucking massive, which makes coming out with a competitor a little more than just coding the front-end.[/QUOTE]
This is a thing that annoys me so much is that people always seem to forget this. A core reason why Youtube maintained it's success so well is that it did something no one else ever did. It managed to obtain consistent delivery to a complete worldwide audience. Youtube's CDN is complex. Youtube's CDN is ridiculously complex. You can't compete with that by using AWS S3 and Cloudfront like shitty sites like vid.me and streamable try to do, that doesn't work and it will never work. Basically no one other than Youtube, Netflix, Twitch and a few other region restricted services has ever done it right.
It's incredibly expensive, it's logistically beyond comprehension and requires engineering to a degree you see nowhere else on the web. The only way it's ever going to happen is if it comes from a company like Microsoft, Amazon, etc. Because no one else has the resources to manage it, and I think the reason why we never see them do it is because they see how unprofitable Youtube is for Google and how incredibly hard it would be to break into the market.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;52151421]A lot of content creators do the "you can watch my videos 1-2 weeks/month earlier on XYZ site!" and even if the site is free, it almost always fails. People watch YouTube. They don't want to go out of their way to watch a certain content creator.[/QUOTE]
I think something that contributes to this is that these other sites usually have awful video players/awful community features.
honestly who still watches h3h3, they haven't made anything interesting in months.
[QUOTE=Savage Octane;52151462]honestly who still watches h3h3, they haven't made anything interesting in months.[/QUOTE]
I would imagine the 1 to 3.5 million people on average who watch their videos watch their videos.
Youtube content creators need to take advantage of the subscribers they have.
Why aren't they making a website to bring traffic to? Forget banking on youtube ad money, go to the damn product suppliers and make the advert yourself. They clearly have the skills for video production stop allowing youtube to be 99% of your income and look at alternate avenues by using your subscribers.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shXuOsdygX8[/media]
Dunno how FP views Pyro these days but this helps show what it's like to be a big successful Youtuber in the world of today.
[QUOTE=Boss;52153359]Youtube content creators need to take advantage of the subscribers they have.
Why aren't they making a website to bring traffic to? Forget banking on youtube ad money, go to the damn product suppliers and make the advert yourself. They clearly have the skills for video production stop allowing youtube to be 99% of your income and look at alternate avenues by using your subscribers.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. If a company like Roosterteeth can make bank off their own website whilst simultaneously uploading their vids to YT for a little extra cash, why can't all of these guys? They could totally make their own website if they actually put the effort.
[QUOTE=Keychain;52155025]Agreed. If a company like Roosterteeth can make bank off their own website whilst simultaneously uploading their vids to YT for a little extra cash, why can't all of these guys? They could totally make their own website if they actually put the effort.[/QUOTE]
Rooster Teeth is an anomaly. They were the first of their kind and the sheer weight of the brand alone can carry them anywhere they go, from sponsorships from Microsoft, Mojang, etc etc. Rooster Teeth is incomparable to your average joe moderately successful youtuber
[editline]26th April 2017[/editline]
They also had the advantage of being on the internet early enough to where people would actually go out of their way to seek good content, so their website had a large following to begin with.
Not to mention Rooster Teeth can shit out content like nobody's business. Their business strategy has been put something out and as long as it consistently gets views or their is a demand, keep putting it out for as long as humanly possible. Not to mention they have merchandising as well
[QUOTE=Boss;52153359]Youtube content creators need to take advantage of the subscribers they have.
Why aren't they making a website to bring traffic to? Forget banking on youtube ad money, go to the damn product suppliers and make the advert yourself. They clearly have the skills for video production stop allowing youtube to be 99% of your income and look at alternate avenues by using your subscribers.[/QUOTE]
many have and do try this. it doesn't work. people don't want to go to 50 different sites to see your content, they want it all in their feed on a single platform.
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