Crowbcat- For honor p2p connectivity - General

[QUOTE=Killowatt;51852916]From what I understand, at least one reason why For Honor uses P2P is so that you are less likely to experience problems due to latency from a dedicated server. Ubisoft can definitely make improvements to how the system works, and while I definitely don't approve half-assing it out the door, I believe Ubisoft will work to improve the game's networking. I believe that because the game works this way is the reason why I've never experienced any moments where I feel like I've missed a shot or a block because of lag. However, this is not an excuse for how half-assed it sort of works now. Problems with matchmaking sometimes being shaky and the occasional disconnect are serious problems that affect the game. It is entirely reasonable (and probable) to believe Ubi jumped on the opportunity to make this game P2P in order to save money. And if what you said about R6 servers going down because of For Honor and Wildlands is true, that is some serious bullshit.[/QUOTE] For Honor uses 'true' P2P which means there will be some misunderstanding over the term. P2P as we know it for most games isn't really P2P as the game is just selecting a single player as the host, in For Honor every player is technically a host. If they actually said about the dedicated server latency thing then that just sounds like BS. If you have latency issues to a dedicated server then the issue is likely with you or your ISP. All P2P will do is make gameplay a lot more inconsistent and prone to lag issues. I'd much rather fight someone who is lagging and have a dedicated server that can still decide the rules and make it as even a playing ground as possible so I'm not punished for their bad connection, than a direct connection with that user where they are just going to be teleporting all over if they are lagging and no amount of changes to the networking will fix that without having other implications. Trying to fix issues like this in P2P especially has security concerns because then you're putting trust on the client performing the action that their state is the true state of the game, and with that you end up with janky desync stuff happening and a bunch more that can be exploited. Not to mention the fact that exposing IPs in a game like this will just lead to people getting DDOSed out of lobbies. It would be a joke if they used this implementation for ranked play, having something at stake is just asking for more people to find ways to abuse it. This is all pure speculation but I think the only reason people aren't running around with stuff like unlimited health cheats despite it being P2P is because they likely made it so that things like that are synched across all clients, and if 1 client reports X but all other clients report closer to Y then their state will override the minority. Not sure if this means you could probably exploit it you had more than 50% of the clients in the game on your side (Which wouldn't happen normally but it'd be easy to DDOS someone out of the game on the enemy team so your team has more people), and I don't really know how it'd work in 1v1s in deciding who takes priority. I wonder if someone will ever invent a For Honor bot, because of the nature of the game it should be possible to make a bot that could beat pretty much anyone. I mean the game already has hacks available that will auto block/parry/counter any attack the enemy throws at you for you.

[QUOTE=Lolkork;51853765]$60 game $40 season pass Microtransactions yet P2P multiplayer ubisoft is the worst.[/QUOTE] Microtransactions for cosmetic items. There are some stats added to loot/gear, but you can turn that off completely. Also every single thing can be grinded for ingame, it's not just hidden behind a paywall.

Super weird, I even played with an American friend and we connected to what I assume was an American server and I felt close to no real ping difference, I couldn't counter grabs as easily but everything else was almost the same as playing on local servers. I guess I've been lucky but I haven't seen anything even close to this stuff

Most of my issues with the netcode are actually in joining games/forming groups. Once I'm in a game, it's pretty rare for me to get lag or disconnected. Happens, but isn't too frequent. However, it's fucking impossible to get groups going sometimes, even when all people have open NAT types. Yesterday, we were trying to get a group of 3 going and nobody could send invites, they would get sent but the recipients wouldn't get them until like 10 minutes later. I could join one guy, but then the other couldn't join, so we had to do this game of mix and match trying to find the correct order of joining a certain group leader so we could all play. Took a solid 30 minutes just to all end up in the same group, then we got to play just fine. That, and there's no system for re-joining matches it seems. You get booted out and maybe your friend can invite you back and maybe it will work (most likely not) because the system doesn't try to hold a reservation for you. You get booted, it immediately starts searching for someone to fill that spot. Getting disconnected from a long dominion game with tons of points built up and not being able to rejoin because it filled the spot instantaneously with some random person is extremely frustrating.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;51853878]how is it milking when the majority of players will never need to do it like id get it if your point was "i disagree with the concept of microtransactions" but you are going about it like they are holding it behind the microtransactions. its like getting mad about csgo skins saying "they are milking you" like yea you can say skins are shit but literally noone is forced to pay for shit[/QUOTE] Nah it's more like the fact that it's double dipping. You pay $60 for the base game and then they put in micro transactions because they [b]know[/b] people with no self control or kids with their moms credit card are going to eat that shit up. The problem is obviously that they fucked the connection system to cheap out on server costs and then have the gall to put microtransactions into the game to squeeze even more money out. CS:GO has never had paid DLC, and the paid content it does have is community made, as are all of the skins, and even if it's only because the community busts their balls for it Valve is always trying to make connectivity better, optimisation better, and hit detection better because they realise it's a competitive game and it can actually live longer than a year (unlike how For Honor will) if you actually try for it. It's not similar at all.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;51853948]csgo skins and operation maps havent always been (and still arent always) community made though, that and valve take massive cuts from all market transactions and operation purchases regardless of who gets and makes money its still microtransactions at its core, but in the case of csgo the content is actively locked away [editline]22nd February 2017[/editline] Also just did the math by converting the price of steel in the shop at its most likely bought price and using the average steel gained per match in 1v1 (~30 steel in my experience) and the average length of a 1v1 match (~4 minutes in my experience) it comes out at around 111 hours of gameplay to get 50000 steel (60aud in the currency shop, same price as season pass) assuming you dont ever do orders (dailies/etc), use xp boosters (which cost steel) and never dismantle gear for steel until we know how much the dlc characters end up costing in steel its not exactly something I can judge tbh[/QUOTE] Fuck you're right, I forgot about the operations. Most of those maps are still community made though, and you can download them from the workshop and play them after the operation is done. I don't like the operation system at all either, but at least you can play those maps still. I don't like micro transactions at all but when it's community made and the author gets a cut, I can excuse them.

I don't love the season pass stuff with Rainbow six and for honor but if I had to pick between $15 map packs that split up the community and the ability to have free maps for everyone + characters you can grind for (or pay for) i'd pick the latter. It's picking the lesser of two evils but I'm still not the biggest fan of the game still being $60 on top of it

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;51853795]60 dollar game season pass to unlock characters immediately which can be unlocked with ingame currency that the game hands out like candy microtransactions to get ingame currency which is overpriced compared to how easy it is to get currency[/QUOTE] I have a problem with how F2P the whole thing feels with its cosmetics and unlocks. Like, the currency numbers are stupidly high because it's a cheap way to make it feel rewarding when big numbers appear on screen, and it makes packs with relatively little content sound like they're worth more than they really are. It also allows them to somewhat conceal how overpriced the microtransactions are, because 150,000 funbucks for 100 real bucks, with the big shining "you get 50,000 free !!" and the "BEST DEAL!" messages, makes it sound like better value than, say, 100€ for 100 funbucks. And it also makes me wonder how expensive the later DLC will get in funbucks, because if R6 Siege is anything to go by, that shit will get [I]really[/I] expensive.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51854406]I have a problem with how F2P the whole thing feels with its cosmetics and unlocks. Like, the currency numbers are stupidly high because it's a cheap way to make it feel rewarding when big numbers appear on screen, and it makes packs with relatively little content sound like they're worth more than they really are. It also allows them to somewhat conceal how overpriced the microtransactions are, because 150,000 funbucks for 100 real bucks, with the big shining "you get 50,000 free !!" and the "BEST DEAL!" messages, makes it sound like better value than, say, 100€ for 100 funbucks. And it also makes me wonder how expensive the later DLC will get in funbucks, because if R6 Siege is anything to go by, that shit will get [I]really[/I] expensive.[/QUOTE] actually if its anything like siege, dlc characters will be really easy to get, not to mention you can play characters without even purchasing them.

A forty dollar season pass in which all you get is early access to characters, and you don't have to grind to unlock six new characters, and some cosmetic bullshit nobody in their right mind would complain about. Maps are free, and there will be no segregation of players as you would find in say Battlefield or Call of Duty. And microtransactions are just pay-2-skip actually playing the game. It being P2P is it's own can of worms, but as a personal anecdote so far I've only had one actual issue, and that was that in a party my friend joined a game but I didn't follow him for some reason. Worked fine after we tried again.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;51854444]nothing you are saying inherently makes the game bad though? what ubi are doing is scummy sure, but dont act like its actively ruining the game that and again, even if you pay for items you arent going to suddenly get the big bad weapon that lets you win the game[/QUOTE] Oh, I'm not acting like it's ruining the game. It's just killing my personal interest in it as a full price title. More power to those who can look past it, I sure can't. I also forgot to mention the purposeful ambiguity between what is cosmetic and what isn't. Tying stats to cosmetics, even if you can disable them, is a pretty shoddy practice especially when microtransactions are involved. Would much rather have it be like Overwatch where all gameplay content is purely free and all cosmetic content does not affect gameplay in any way, save for visuals and audio.

I currently have 64 hours in the game built up from Tuesday last week to Yesterday. I have a near reputation 5 raider and I have so far experienced the following. Player leaves game and everyone freezes for about 2-5 seconds. Game resumes as is. (This doesn't always happen when players leave. This is the worst culprit for me.) My game match crashes me back to the menu screen. (Happens about twice a day. This is based on playing all day though. If i'm only playing for 2-3 hours a day playing then the chances aren't that high of it happening.) I make a strike and the game freezes then resumes 3-4 seconds later with everything kind of reversed in time a bit after someone leaves game. (This has happened to me maybe 3 times total.) Game sits on synchronizing forever. (This is inconsistent and doesn't happen every day. Has happened to me about 4-5 times total) I have yet to have anybody do the magician stuff where they just appear in random places. All of my hits have landed and blocks have been successful so far to my knowledge. The issues have not been persistent enough to really bother me yet. They are definitely there and suck balls when they happen. The game its self is solid and I have had a really great time and would still buy the game now if I didn't own it already. These things are negative but just aren't frequent enough to really ruin the experience for me. The choice of making the game P2P is still retarded as fuck though.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;51854508]aside from unlocking characters this is wrong tho[/QUOTE] Microtransactions are to get Steel which you earn from playing the game normally. They have a few usages. 1: Unlock characters, which from doing both tutorials anyone has enough initial currency to unlock all of them. 2: Buy cosmetics, which are exactly what they are on the tin. All-in-one colour schemes, taunts, execution effects, etc. 3: Unlock the season pass characters - prices aren't announced yet, but they'll probably be orders of magnitude more expensive than the vanilla ones. 4: This is a bit of a sticking point, but bear with me. Buy ME3-MP style boxes of loot for one particular character, which shuffles around the stats of your character slightly in certain modes. More attack, less defense, for example, or less stamina recovery for more revenge duration. HOWEVER: These items are reputation-locked, so if you haven't hit Rep level 21 you won't get any gear above level 3. You have a (fairly high) chance to get these items at the end of every match regardless. They've been [I]somewhat[/I] clever that someone can't just throw lots of money at the game and have a character that outranks everything else, and so you have to actually play the character a lot to get the Real Good Loot.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;51854525]the items you can buy with steel dont even have the stats that equipment have, you cant directly buy equipment.[/QUOTE] Actually you can but it isn't worth it unless your already reputation 4 and that will require a ton of effort to achieve on a single character. You could in theory play on a character until rep 4 then buy lets say £30-50 worth of steel and just give yourself max level gear with stats. In 1v1 and 2v2 the stats don't count but in 4v4 game modes a max level gear character can basically one shot you (at least I can). I wouldn't call it worth doing but you can definitely do it. Basically you can buy loot boxes for stat gear. 500 steel boxes guarantee 2 rare items of your reputation level. You cannot get anything higher than your current reputation level so by waiting for rep 4 you will auto get 2 of the best gear type per box. You will then need to level that gear up 4 or 5 times to max level. Rep 4 crates will give you 2 pieces of gear that will be either lvl 13 or lvl 14. You then level that gear up to the max of level 18. You can have 6 pieces of gear on at a time for a total gear score of 108. You will get 3-4 other random items in the crate generally level 9 or 10 but it can drop like 5-6 pieces of lvl 13 - 14 gear per crate. The reason I say it isn't worth it is because by the time I reached rep 4 I already had gotten to lvl 99 gear score legitimately.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;51854598]thats not directly buying, those random drops are also gained easily through leveling and cost fuckall steel to open otherwise[/QUOTE] Yes it is. You said that stuff you buy with steel doesn't have stats and this is not true as you can buy stat gear with steel. Doesn't mean anything if you have to buy the steel first with real money as your still basically spending real money to buy stat gear. We aren't talking about how easy it is to get steel or how pointless it might be to buy stat gear with real money the point is you can do it. Doesn't matter if you don't know what your getting your still buying stat gear with real money. Your post was factually wrong and I was pointing it out.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;51854508]aside from unlocking characters this is wrong tho[/QUOTE] You can actually play locked characters. You just don't gain any progression in them until you unlock them.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;51854672]You can actually play locked characters. You just don't gain any progression in them until you unlock them.[/QUOTE] You can level up locked characters but you cannot customize them.

[QUOTE=Asaratha;51854478]people on this website bitch about microtransactions so much its unbelievable. who gives a fuck if devs put in a way to customize your character at the expense of either a lot of in-game currency or some real money? it really does not, and should not affect the game in the long run whats the point in not supporting optional microtransactions? i guess it is "double dipping" in the sense that a company needs money to survive, and any extra funds can be used on the game. but you know this isn't a bad thing, right? cosmetics don't even change the game lmao[/QUOTE] Because usually you're not getting anything extra out of it. When a game is $60, has microtransactions, day 1 dlc, pre-order exclusive missions, a season pass, and other junk crammed into it it's very rare you see some substantial free content along with it. The developer/publisher is just sucking in vast amounts of money and it's been getting worse as time goes on. I never even brought up pure cosmetics either. I'm fine with it, a lot of games handle it well like Rust or Dota 2, not a fan of the crate gambling fad though. That was just me getting sidetracked to someone else anyway, my main point was that in a game like For Honor, they charge $60 for a competitive multiplayer game heavily reliant on timed attacks and blocks, and then gimp it with P2P connection to save server costs, and then add in microtransactions to score even more money off of it. And it's microtransactions aren't 100% cosmetic, plus it has a season pass. Do you see no problem with this?

[QUOTE=Rahu X;51853824]He's probably quoting this video from Battle(non)sense. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAU5bIalbnc[/media] And while that could be true, due to the way the game is simulated on every client, it's not often that you notice such a spike. I honestly don't have any noticeable lag until I decide to play some games with my friend from Australia.[/QUOTE] Yeah, was from battle(non)sense. No matter how you slice it though, the netcode is pretty horrid even if the type of game No Honor makes it less noticeable. Take it the other way: the game could ONLY be improved with a better netcode and Ubisoft CERTAINLY should be able to improve it.

Crowbcat has really carved out a niche for himself on Youtube. I wonder what his motivation is.

While I like Crowbcat's videos and feel that P2P is a bad workaround for a game that can and should have dedicated servers, I can't help but really dislike this video. I've never even played For Honor, but I feel the length of this video is proof enough that this is cherry picking from the bottom of a shit barrel. Most of his videos that give proof and have actual foundation to them are much longer. This is further backed up by most of the people ITT saying "I haven't had many problems at all". If it were a 15 minute video of people constantly lagging out I'd say it has some substantial proof. But it's 3 minutes of cherry picked videos with a (rather shit) undertone of "look at how much you (could) fuck with the game by screwing with the client". Definitely not one of his best videos. Far and away actually.

[QUOTE=Naught;51854422]actually if its anything like siege, dlc characters will be really easy to get, not to mention you can play characters without even purchasing them.[/QUOTE] "really easy to get" 25000 renown is not "easy to get"

[QUOTE=Asaratha;51854478]whats the point in not supporting optional microtransactions? i guess it is "double dipping" in the sense that a company needs money to survive, and any extra funds can be used on the game. but you know this isn't a bad thing, right? cosmetics don't even change the game lmao[/QUOTE] There's zero accountability though. If they were actually reinvesting in the game that's one thing, but considering they didn't even shell out for dedicated servers, it's hard to believe they have the customer's best interest at heart (because good dedicated servers spread out in a geographically diverse manner are almost always going to be better than P2P, especially when it comes to reliability and consistency). Then there's pre-order bonuses and RNG crates that are just designed to exploit people's weaknesses. It's sleazy business practices, and it's really shit that it's becoming the industry standard.

[QUOTE=Gray Altoid;51856601]"really easy to get" 25000 renown is not "easy to get"[/QUOTE] im not talking about siege, im talking about for honor. 5$ is the price of a dlc character in siege, so if they're the same price in for honor, thats only 5k steel (which is 5$) which doesn't take long at all to get.

[QUOTE=Gray Altoid;51856601]"really easy to get" 25000 renown is not "easy to get"[/QUOTE] This while average game in Siege gives you ~250 renown. "Easy to get" my ass.