Abolish Women's and Black History Months in favor of Human History Month? - General

The trouble with 'racial colorblindness' is that it doesn't work: [url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/hbsworkingknowledge/2013/01/20/the-case-against-racial-colorblindness-in-the-workplace/[/url]

[QUOTE=Killerkid;41709997]The trouble with 'racial colorblindness' is that it doesn't work: [url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/hbsworkingknowledge/2013/01/20/the-case-against-racial-colorblindness-in-the-workplace/[/url][/QUOTE] Because it doesn't exist, yet. Society as a whole still acknowledges the construct of "race". The fact that we're discussing this proves the point. We need to relegate skin colour (the typical descriptor of race) to something as unimportant as eye colour, and the only way we'll do that is by forcing ourselves to think that way, and forcing the next generation, and the one after them.

I don't think we as a society are ready for that sort fo thing. We would be yelling racist and flipping cars faster then you can say "Hold on!"

[QUOTE=Antdawg;41697760]Uh, do you understand why we recognise black history and women's history? Both of these demographics have faced discrimination for a long time, up until around 100 years ago women in western society had very few rights (eg with women not being able to vote), and only around 50 years ago were black men and women finally considered equal to the rest of us. And still to this day there is discrimination against these groups in our society. [B]If you're a woman your average pay would typically not be as high as the average pay of a man[/B], and if you're black then you're more likely to be arrested than a white man or woman. Having a single holiday to 'reflect on great human accomplishments' is ridiculous because such a month of recognition would not give sufficient recognition to the adversity that many demographics have had to struggle with to get to where we are today.[/QUOTE] Uh, source?

Get rid of all of them. They're all pointless.Well... they have points... but the points are null. All we'd realy need is an hours lesson in primary school about why some people look different.

When I think about black history month I think of a guy who was obsessed with peanuts, when I think of woman's history month I remember some lady who made the flag. Again how is this helping raise awareness. I say it doesn't make sense and then you reply with the essentially same answer "to rAise awareness" thing is that just isn't happening. And we don't need to raise awareness, everyone is already very much aware.

[QUOTE=xxncxx;41711145]Uh, source?[/QUOTE] really? This is well known fact. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States[/url] [editline]4th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=FoodStuffs;41711989]When I think about black history month I think of a guy who was obsessed with peanuts, when I think of woman's history month I remember some lady who made the flag. Again how is this helping raise awareness. I say it doesn't make sense and then you reply with the essentially same answer "to rAise awareness" thing is that just isn't happening. And we don't need to raise awareness, everyone is already very much aware.[/QUOTE] If it barely affects us why get rid of it then? It's certainly not a negative thing.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;41706175]Except racism won't just go away when we stop acknowledging each others' race as he claims. Racism is in many forms and is everywhere, of course from hate speech all the way down to an employer giving preference to a white man over all other races for a job position.[/QUOTE] Racism would absolutely go away if we can stop paying attention to race, when I was around 6 or so I didn't even know that races were a thing, I thought that some people just happened to have darker skin, or just happened to have different facial features. The only reason I began seeing race was due to black history month, and for a while after that I was scared to say ANYTHING against a black person for fear of offending them (not even anything that had to do with race, I remember telling my mom she couldn't get mad at someone for cutting her off because she was black) because that's what the school taught me.

We can never stop paying attention to race. There is absolutely not a single practical way. Black history month didn't teach you that, it's either a dumb anecdote you made/warped to fit your own worldview or an actual very weird way that you interpreted it that very few others ever will.

I see it in a similar position to the old D.A.R.E. anti drug program. They tried to bring as much attention to drug abuse to try and keep people away from it but it did the exact opposite and made more people want to try drugs instead. The people saying to stop talking about it don't mean ignore it but they mean stop putting it under such a huge spotlight. Let it go to 'non hyped' levels of talk and I think a lot of problems will start being less of an issue.

I think trying to enforce racial colorblindness or human equality is simply something our society isn't ready yet for. Any person growing up in a world where race and gender clearly differentiates people will never stop doing so themselves, and it's something that carries on. The biggest flaw so far about our society is that gender and race are played up as features that clearly set us apart from others, a big deal in simple terms, while in reality it hardly affects who we are as a human being if it was all brought to neutral ground. A difference could be made though if people treated it as what it was, a visual trait about a person, a feature, and nothing more. The fact that we still feel the need to acknowledge black history and women's history is agreeably a step into the wrong direction, because as nice as it might seem great to celebrate a race and gender oppressed for decades, it only pulls us further away from a world where race and gender don't make out what kinda person anyone is like.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;41712624]We can never stop paying attention to race. There is absolutely not a single practical way. Black history month didn't teach you that, it's either a dumb anecdote you made/warped to fit your own worldview or an actual very weird way that you interpreted it that very few others ever will.[/QUOTE] Katbug is a racist misogynist. [editline]4th August 2013[/editline] Anyways, the reason you have women's and black history month is because like, the remaining 10 months are white dudes history month.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;41712624]We can never stop paying attention to race. There is absolutely not a single practical way. Black history month didn't teach you that, it's either a dumb anecdote you made/warped to fit your own worldview or an actual very weird way that you interpreted it that very few others ever will.[/QUOTE] How is there no practical way? If the endgoal is equality, there's two options you have; Ignore it entirely, and racism will disappear in a few generations. Or, acknowledge the differences, and hope that somehow people will stop being stupid. [QUOTE=sp00ks;41713243]Katbug is a racist misogynist. [editline]4th August 2013[/editline] Anyways, the reason you have women's and black history month is because like, the remaining 10 months are white dudes history month.[/QUOTE] Neither of those statements are true. Not only is your first statement irrelevant to the discussion, we cover history from all over the world pretty much equally.

[QUOTE=katbug;41713607]How is there no practical way? If the endgoal is equality, there's two options you have; Ignore it entirely, and racism will disappear in a few generations. Or, acknowledge the differences, and hope that somehow people will stop being stupid.[/QUOTE] Yes, we are going to practically force everybody to not acknowledge that race is a thing. Please, we started out that way you realize. Society evolved to the bigoted, racially divided state from an even playing field. It ain't gonna happen.

While it's true that race and gender are purely socio-political constructs, it's been explained ad nauseum that things like Black History Month and the International Woman's Day are not about celebrating those specific demographics for being black or female, it's about recognizing their struggle to be recognized as equals in an unfair society. It's less about "Black History Month! Let's celebrate our pigmented skin!" and more about "Black History Month! Let's celebrate our struggle for our rights in the face of systematic oppression!". So no, it should not be abolished and it's not racist or sexist in the least. It doesn't segregate anyone and everyone can celebrate it. To say otherwise is ignorant. Before anyone suggests it, a "white day" would be pointless because white people as whole have never been subjected to institutional oppression like racial minorities and women have and still are subjected to.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;41713703]Yes, we are going to practically force everybody to not acknowledge that race is a thing. Please, we started out that way you realize. Society evolved to the bigoted, racially divided state from an even playing field. It ain't gonna happen.[/QUOTE] We also used to think slavery was just fine, that women should stay "where they belong", and that it was A-OK to mass murder anyone you were pillaging. Times have changed, and so have we. How would you suggest we solve the racism problem? Because there are plenty of racists on every side that are that way not because they were taught to think that way, but because they see that people are different and choose to hate them for that. Sure, some may learn from parents/school/peers or whatever, but there are always going to be people who are quite simply arseholes.

[QUOTE=katbug;41713772]We also used to think slavery was just fine, that women should stay "where they belong", and that it was A-OK to mass murder anyone you were pillaging. Times have changed, and so have we. How would you suggest we solve the racism problem? Because there are plenty of racists on every side that are that way not because they were taught to think that way, but because they see that people are different and choose to hate them for that. Sure, some may learn from parents/school/peers or whatever, but there are always going to be people who are quite simply arseholes.[/QUOTE] We "solve" racism by acknowledging there is a problem with racism and acknowledging that there is a struggle to end it, not by ignoring the problem, that's ridiculous. No significant social change has ever occurred through inaction. Same goes for gender relations. Those problems will never go away but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do our best to correct them. There's a reason why black pride and feminist organizations exist, to deconstruct the system that oppresses them and show others what's wrong so we can all work to fix it together.

Yeah that's my point. We pretty much can't solve racism. But we can ensure that we do our best to counter its effects. History months serve to do just that. Saying it propagates racism is just baseless rhetoric. It doesn't.

People saying "children won't know or care about race or racism if we don't talk about it" are wrong. [URL="http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/are-we-born-racist/201104/should-we-talk-young-children-about-race"]Children do notice things like that, and if anything refusing to talk about is likely to make them [I]more[/I] prejudiced, not less.[/URL]

[QUOTE=vagrant;41704914]when anti-blackness isn't a thing anymore. also how are you seriously calling black history month segregation? you know it was started by black people? like, it's a black movement, it's a black people's response to oppression. if you're saying that there wouldn't need to be a black history month in a truly non-racist world, maaaybe you're right kinda in a way? but that's just hypothetical and not really relevant to like, this century. basically [white people?] taking away black history month [from black people?] is not liberating or revolutionary or productive or good or non-evil[/QUOTE] It never will be gone, neither will anti-whiteness, anti-whateverraceyouwannaputhere. There will always be a few racist shitheads running around.

[QUOTE=Tweevle;41713840]People saying "children won't know or care about race or racism if we don't talk about it" are wrong. [URL="http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/are-we-born-racist/201104/should-we-talk-young-children-about-race"]Children do notice things like that, and if anything refusing to talk about is likely to make them [I]more[/I] prejudiced, not less.[/URL][/QUOTE] My point isn't that we should ignore it, but that we should normalise race as being nothing different from any other physical trait such as hair colour, or eye colour, or height. That's the opposite of "racial colourblindness", it's just destroying the concept of "race" as a significant difference.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;41712065] If it barely affects us why get rid of it then? It's certainly not a negative thing.[/QUOTE] First of all it doesn't affect us at all, secondly I think the detriment it causes has Lready been stated enough, and if you still don't get it you intentionally are putting cotton in your ears [editline]4th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Craigewan;41715030]My point isn't that we should ignore it, but that we should normalise race as being nothing different from any other physical trait such as hair colour, or eye colour, or height. That's the opposite of "racial colourblindness", it's just destroying the concept of "race" as a significant difference.[/QUOTE] This guy says basically what I think. I would make out my own statement because I would phrase concepts and ideas differently, not to mention my own subjection... But I am tired and so is this argument. So I'll just quote Craig and be done with it, sloppily, but done.

[QUOTE=FoodStuffs;41715563]First of all it doesn't affect us at all, secondly I think the detriment it causes has Lready been stated enough, and if you still don't get it you intentionally are putting cotton in your ears[/QUOTE] It has been "stated" as baseless rhetoric. But in the world of facts there is no detriment. Ignoring baseless claims is not ignorance.

Each deserves it's place, I believe that a Human History month would be more appropriate with day honouring a different section of our history. Including the women's rights movement and black history. But they both are about the fight for equality, so maybe equality week?

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;41714174]It never will be gone, neither will anti-whiteness, anti-whateverraceyouwannaputhere. There will always be a few racist shitheads running around.[/QUOTE] it's a hypothetical situation ;P

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;41712065]really? This is well known fact. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States[/url] [editline]4th August 2013[/editline] If it barely affects us why get rid of it then? It's certainly not a negative thing.[/QUOTE] Average pay of men is higher than average pay of women but men and women get equal pay for equal work (what matters in a pay structure) what effects this is that men tend to be more represented in higher paying jobs (doctor, dentist, orthodontist, lawyer) they are evening out but that may take many years and there is lots of discussion as to why that inequality exists as it does.

[QUOTE=willtheoct;41698387]to nationally recognize different races and "pay tribute" to them in itself is racist. to be worshipped for what you are born as is ethically wrong. furthermore, the only way to eliminate racism is to stop talking about it. black history month is a very racist concept. i also wasn't aware of women's history month, but it sounds equally sexist.[/QUOTE] These months are about people overcoming prejudice and doing really cool and innovative stuff, and so that people can become aware of contributions to society made by oppressed groups that were previously rarely spoken about.

[QUOTE=katbug;41713607] Neither of those statements are true. Not only is your first statement irrelevant to the discussion, we cover history from all over the world pretty much equally.[/QUOTE] The western world pretty much only covers western history, and pretty much only male history (which is also because women were so oppressed for most of history that they were literally unable to actually do much).

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;41713703] Society evolved to the bigoted, racially divided state from an even playing field. It ain't gonna happen.[/QUOTE] Ugh, no, it wasn't the case? Racism and other forms of discrimination existed ever since human mind evolved into being capable of acknowledging the diffirences between diffirent individuals, and then - of placing individuals into groups by shared traits. Skin colors, methods of production, ways of life, religions etc. Societies didn't evolve to be racially divided and "bigoted". They started that way. Basic insticts of survival in groups of social animals - to be close with those who have a lot in common with you, and to fear and "hate" those diffirent. This allowed humanity to evolve into diversity that is present to this day, and at the same time it's the reason we are so keen to distrust one another for being diffirent in any way.

[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;41713764]Before anyone suggests it, a "white day" would be pointless because [B]white people as whole have never been subjected to institutional oppression like racial minorities and women have and still are subjected to.[/B][/QUOTE] sorry, what colour are the irish?