Abolish Women's and Black History Months in favor of Human History Month?
122 replies, posted
[QUOTE=tzoz;41826700]nothing gets past you, does it? try rereading my posts and then using your critical reading skills to understand my point.
[editline]13th August 2013[/editline]
also another interesting fact, when the trans-atlantic trade originated, blacks in africa were already being enslaved by other blacks, and then sold off to the so-called europeans![/QUOTE]
Slavery as it was practiced in Africa was totally unlike the Slavery practiced in the United States. African slavery more resembled the slavery of Ancient Greece, where slaves had rights like protection from unjust punishment, a right to certain standards of living, the right to have their own property and to buy their freedom, and were often treated like family members by the people who owned them. While this form of slavery is [B]certainly not okay[/B], it is very distinct from the form of slavery that was practiced in the Southern United States which, with a few exceptions like Qin Dynasty China, was historically unique in it's cruelty and inhumanity.
African slavers who sold slaves to Americans absolutely had no idea what kind of lives they were selling those slaves into. Saying "well black people were slavers too" as a way to assuage European and American culpability in the slave trade is woefuly ignorant of historical reality (not to mention economics. Supply and demand, after all).
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41826814]Slavery as it was practiced in Africa was totally unlike the Slavery practiced in the United States. African slavery more resembled the slavery of Ancient Greece, where slaves had rights like protection from unjust punishment, a right to certain standards of living, the right to have their own property and to buy their freedom, and were often treated like family members by the people who owned them. While this form of slavery is [B]certainly not okay[/B], it is very distinct from the form of slavery that was practiced in the Southern United States which, with a few exceptions like Qin Dynasty China, was historically unique in it's cruelty and inhumanity.
African slavers who sold slaves to Americans absolutely had no idea what kind of lives they were selling those slaves into. Saying "well black people were slavers too" as a way to assuage European and American culpability in the slave trade is woefuly ignorant of historical reality (not to mention economics. Supply and demand, after all).[/QUOTE]
i don't get it, are you trying to downplay the fact that they were enslaved to begin with? as if it has no ramifications whatsoever? that's like saying "oh it's just a little undeveloped cancer lump, it's not a fully grown tumor!" so again, you don't really have a point here do you? it's still slavery; it's still wrong.
[QUOTE=tzoz;41826947]i don't get it,[/QUOTE]
That's cool. I'm not busy, I can wait until you understand it.
[editline]13th August 2013[/editline]
If you want to understand it, you should probably start by reading the part where I affirm that slavery is not ok, and then read part where I characterize your own attempts to downplay the severity of slavery by saying "some of the slavers were blacK" is, and I quote myself: "fuckwrong as goddamn hell."
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41826814]African slavers who sold slaves to Americans absolutely had no idea what kind of lives they were selling those slaves into. Saying "well black people were slavers too" as a way to assuage European and American culpability in the slave trade is woefuly ignorant of historical reality (not to mention economics. Supply and demand, after all).[/QUOTE]
Well in actual fact, those slavers pretty much fully know about those sorts of things. Slaves were in high demand, starting in the high middle ages when the Caliphates needed them, and continuing well after the slave trade was "officially" banned. It was common practice to castrate them and use rather nasty punishments on them in the middle ages. The Eastern Roman Empire, followed by the Muslims were keen on having many eunuchs.
Many of the African Kingdoms in West Africa (Benin, Sokoto, Mali, etc) viewed wealth as the number of people you kept, rather than land. Of course, with the arrival of Arab merchants selling firearms (and much later the Europeans), this kingdoms suddenly hit upon a brilliant idea.
They would sell people to these slavers in return for firearms, and use them to build vast empires. Of course, many other people had the same idea, with the result being an arms race to build their Empires. Christianity and Islam had been making inroads for centuries, so religious conflict often came into it. Europeans and Arabs mostly sat on the sidelines selling guns and buying slaves.
Morally, the Kings of West Africa were no better than the European or Arab merchants who came along to buy slaves, or the plantation owners of the New World and the Sultans of the Ottomans. In the end, it was the common subsistence farmer and his family who got the short stick.
[QUOTE=tzoz;41826048][B]how can you blame an entire nation for enslaving a group of people? do you have any evidence that this was backed by a vast majority?[/B] there were always abolitionists about but apparently they don't count in your expert judgement. your idea is to lump an entire group of people together based on the color of their skin and assume that they deserve special treatment against any reasonable doubt. i think there's a word for that... oh right, it's [B]racism[/B]. wanna know why? because this victim complex has been completely institutionalized. don't believe me? watch CNN/MSNBC for an hour and then talk with a straight face.[/QUOTE]
oh my god are you real, this entire post reeks of denial, it's like you skipped out of history class
how do you do this, you're saying that united states didnt endorse slavery nor endorse institutionalized racism, this isn't happening, my sides hurt
i can't even explain to you how special treatment is needed because special shit happened, i.e we took people from africa and forced them into shit places for a long time, now they're in a shit position because you're still thinking everyone started out in an equal footing because you think slavery was a minor issue
is this real life
[QUOTE=tzoz;41826048]
he writes based on fact gathered from jewish historians, scripture, and records. you can read the Talmud (holiest jewish book) if you want to understand that judaism at its roots is a supremacy ideology. but now i see you're too hung up on the past and blinded by misplaced hatred to make any kind of rational judgement. the fact of the matter is his video is 100% backed by evidence, but you haven't even bothered to dissect that as you go straight for an ad-hominem attack. bravo skippy, you're a terrible debater.[/QUOTE]
im a terrrible debater, but then you use a source from a KKK grand wizard as a source for stuff jews did, and im blinded by misplaced hatred, but you're still looking up to a KKK grand wizard whose known for being a white supremacist and anti-jjew
i think you're just trolling at this point, i give you an award for being a good troll
[QUOTE=tzoz;41826048]
tell me where the video explicitly states that "jews are evil", because when i watched it all i saw was historical evidence showing that the trans-atlantic slave trade was dominated by individuals subscribing to judaism rather than any western/white traditional values, yet this entire thread has been you bitching about white people and slavery. ohhh, you're a hypocrite, i get it now![/QUOTE]
except i was talking about slavery, institutional racism, and etc. DONE by white people in UNITED STATES
when there's a country that was run by african women by generations, and there's a black history / women month over there, i'll join you in saying its stupid k
wait, let me guess, you're gonna say white people never subscribed to such things in america, right?
[QUOTE=tzoz;41826048]
okay, you're stating a widely accepted historical fact. where are we now? what has your endless complaining accomplished? you're harping on the [B]past[/B] suffering of others instead of ensuring that every individual has equality of opportunity in the [B]present[/B]; not by granting special privilege or paying "tribute" (read: money that says "im sorry im sorry im sorry"), but instead by changing peoples attitudes on how we should judge one another. even if you belong to a "race" of people, your genetic makeup still makes you unique in one way or another from everyone else on the planet, so how the fuck is it fair to lump them all together? for the sake of convenience on your end? that's really fucking disgusting.[/QUOTE]
what's more fucking disgusting is throwing in accomplishments in the bin and saying 'fuck off, we're all equal now lolz' after fucking over certain people for generations then saying nothing is wrong, racism is over, no one is being unfairly discriminated against, and etc.
what people like you 'white guilt' whiners don't understand, is that people could care less about white guilt, no one cares if you're sorry, who gives a shit if you're sorry? no one wants you to be sorry other than some radicals. what we want is action and making sure the africans who got here forcefully and forced into poverty are given a chance at success same with white people who never dealt with oppression
africans and white people were never here on equal footing, therefore the former needs a push to be on equal footing, do you understand that statement or are you going to tip your fedora and go 'no, you're wrong, pathetic, white guilt, victimhood, race card!!!'
[QUOTE=tzoz;41826048]
wanna know why MLK was a great person? because he followed the non-aggression doctrine of civil disobedience. he took teachings from Jesus (love thy enemy) and Thoreau (refusal to obey an unjust law), and instead of standing on the graves of dead slaves, he instead decided to say this: [I]"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."[/I] the sad part is if MLK were alive in america today he would be severely disappointed at what has happened.[/QUOTE]
yet by your logic, you'd hate him because he kept playing the victimhood card and never going for white rights either lol
[QUOTE=tzoz;41826048]
excellent, you can't dissect any of my points whatsoever so instead you rely on an [B]unfounded personal attack[/B] to save your sorry ass! quite brilliant, if i do say so myself, but i must ask if you have any legitimate points to make; ones that don't have their roots in a fundamentally flawed system of judging individuals? oh wait, you don't.
closing quote?
[I]"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind."[/I]
gg[/QUOTE]
acknowledging generations of slavery and institutionalized racism which led to many africans turning to poverty =/= 'white people suck, lets go judge them'
heres also my closing quote
[I]"Jewish people have put the interests of race over the interests of the American people... Jews are filled with more hatred and rage for our race, for our heritage, for our blood than perhaps you can imagine."[/I] - david duke ( tsosz's hero )
[IMG]http://politicalscrapbook.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/duke_david_nazi_kkk.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;41827096]oh my god are you real, this entire post reeks of denial, it's like you skipped out of history class
how do you do this, you're saying that united states didnt endorse slavery nor endorse institutionalized racism, this isn't happening, my sides hurt
i can't even explain to you how special treatment is needed because special shit happened, i.e we took people from africa and forced them into shit places for a long time, now they're in a shit position because you're still thinking everyone started out in an equal footing because you think slavery was a minor issue
is this real life[/quote]
did you even read my post? you're blaming an entire continent of people for what a minority perpetrated. get that through your head and tell me if it makes any sense at all. you don't need to inflate your post with content-less pathos.
[quote]im a terrrible debater, but then you use a source from a KKK grand wizard as a source for stuff jews did, and im blinded by misplaced hatred, but you're still looking up to a KKK grand wizard whose known for being a white supremacist and anti-jjew[/quote]
i'm still waiting for you to address the points made by that video instead of rambling on your personal attacks. [I]that's[/I] why i called you a terrible debater. all you know how to do is appeal to emotion and a primal human construct of revenge rather than unadulterated logic.
[quote]i think you're just trolling at this point, i give you an award for being a good troll[/quote]
is this your idea of a defense? call "troll" if all else fails? pathetic.
[quote]except i was talking about slavery, institutional racism, and etc. DONE by white people in UNITED STATES[/quote]
which white people? all white people? some white people? be more specific than using blanket terms here. nobody here is denying that it ever existed, but your stance gives the impression that you're just as hell-bent on discrimination as those "white people in UNITED STATES".
[quote]when there's a country that was run by african women by generations, and there's a black history / women month over there, i'll join you in saying its stupid k[/quote]
how do you celebrate the accomplishments of a "race"? [B]PEOPLE[/B] do things, how about we celebrate what those specific individuals have done?
[quote]wait, let me guess, you're gonna say white people never subscribed to such things in america, right?[/quote]
putting words into my mouth? is that all you got? why would you be singling out and blanketing white people unless you really had a racial hatred/bias against them?
[quote]what's more fucking disgusting is throwing in accomplishments in the bin and saying 'fuck off, we're all equal now lolz' after fucking over certain people for generations then saying nothing is wrong, racism is over, no one is being unfairly discriminated against, and etc. [/quote]
for the millionth time my point has flown over your hate-filled mind. i'm saying if we raise our children with values that don't include judging people based on factors they can't control, then the problem will solve itself. meanwhile your idea is to keep drilling the exact opposite into people's heads, grant special privileges based on that, and then call it an "accomplishment"; well all you're accomplishing is [B]more discrimination[/B] because your entire fucked up worldview relies on [B]distinguishing based on color of skin[/B]. my god do you even realize how hypocritical you sound right now? if you don't get it then i suggest psychotherapy, maybe then you can drop your silly racial bias.
[quote]what people like you 'white guilt' whiners don't understand, is that people could care less about white guilt, no one cares if you're sorry, who gives a shit if you're sorry? no one wants you to be sorry other than some radicals. what we want is action and making sure the africans who got here forcefully and forced into poverty are given a chance at success same with white people who never dealt with oppression[/quote]
if nobody cares about white guilt then why are you constantly trying to make all white people feel guilty even though their ancestors might not have even been living in USA/france/UK during the slave trade? your judgement is based entirely on blind assumption.
define oppression:
[I] Prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control.
The state of being subject to such treatment or control.[/I]
who the fuck are you to say that i've never had any personal struggles? again you're assuming things here,[B] with a hint of double standard, again[/B]! its kind of sad how you're proving my point and not even aware of it.
im curious what kind of "action" you would take, how you would determine exactly which individuals (and by whom) were disadvantaged, how you would determine which "white people" have "never dealt with oppression", etc.; your demands are so ambiguous that the only way to accomplish them would be by collectivizing people under your racist ideology and taking whatever you need by force to "compensate".
[quote]africans and white people were never here on equal footing, therefore the former needs a push to be on equal footing, do you understand that statement or are you going to tip your fedora and go 'no, you're wrong, pathetic, white guilt, victimhood, race card!!!'[/quote]
in terms of what? intelligence? character? status? it varies from individual so again congrats on being a judgmental racist prick. i can think of a handful of black people that are more talented and wealthy than me; does that mean i have to "equalize" the situation? do i have to take all of Jay-Z's money and give it to impoverished white children in the Appalachian Mountains? do we have to execute Neil deGrasse Tyson for being smarter than some white people?
yes, you're trying to make white people feel guilty for what a minority perpetrated.
yes, you're playing the race card with your constant use of labels.
yes, you're victimizing a large number of people and telling them it's okay to never possess a sense of personal responsibility and forgiveness.
yes, you're wrong and pathetic.
[quote]yet by your logic, you'd hate him because he kept playing the victimhood card and never going for white rights either lol[/quote]
he didnt play the victim card, he actually took action in a responsible and nonviolent manner! yeah i know its so weird, he was acting [I]rationally[/I]. in case you completely missed the quote i put there (by him), he was for equal rights of ALL PEOPLE, so there goes your argument in the dirt.
[quote]heres also my closing quote
[I]"Jewish people have put the interests of race over the interests of the American people... Jews are filled with more hatred and rage for our race, for our heritage, for our blood than perhaps you can imagine."[/I] - david duke ( tsosz's hero )
[IMG]http://politicalscrapbook.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/duke_david_nazi_kkk.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
well the quote is founded in historical evidence. who owns a vast majority of the mainstream news/broadcasting corporations? why is AIPAC the largest lobby in washington? why is it a crime to criticize the official story of the holocaust in europe? why do many jewish leaders exploit the suffering from the holocaust to justify the israeli military's actions towards their neighbors? why isn't this ever debated on american mainstream news? why is there a disproportionate amount of jews in banking, finance, telecommunications, hollywood, pornography, security technology, etc.
does this mean all jews are bad? where did i say that? half of my family is jewish and i've met some excellent people who happened to be jewish as well. but i still choose to recognize [B]real world facts[/B]. after reading through your tears, i can't say the same for you.
i could go on and on but the facts are public domain and you can research this yourself. i don't claim for duke to be my hero as he can be dogmatic sometimes, but i don't let that get in the way of listening to all perspectives and judging based on quality and factual consistency of their content, including david duke. THAT is called being unbiased. can you say the same for yourself? because all i see you doing is making bullshit arguments that appeal only to emotion and ego rather than pure logic.
[quote]judaism at its roots is a supremacy ideology[/quote]
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827666]why is it a crime to criticize the official story of the holocaust in europe? why do many jewish leaders exploit the suffering from the holocaust to justify the israeli military's actions towards their neighbors?[/quote]
How many Jews do you think died in the holocaust?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;41827706]How many Jews do you think died in the holocaust?[/QUOTE]
we won't know until we allow a proper discourse and research into said crimes, because the "official" story is based primarily on faulty estimates made by the USSR, and eyewitness testimony.
here's an excellent documentary by david cole as he goes very in-depth:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQjNs-Ght8s[/url]
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827748]we won't know until we allow a proper discourse and research into said crimes, because the "official" story is based primarily on faulty estimates made by the USSR, and eyewitness testimony.
here's an excellent documentary by david cole as he goes very in-depth:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQjNs-Ght8s[/url][/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/places/germany/wannsee/wannsee-english.html[/url]
According to censuses, 6 million Jewish people suddenly vanished between 1942 and 1946. Where did they all go?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;41827862][url]http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/places/germany/wannsee/wannsee-english.html[/url]
According to censuses, 6 million Jewish people suddenly vanished between 1942 and 1946. Where did they all go?[/QUOTE]
that's debatable, many censuses show that such a number of jews in europe didn't even exist. even so, how could such a number be killed in such a period of time in an efficient and economically sustainable manner? the zyklon b argument is completely false as the blue staining is absent from the alleged "gas chambers", not to mention their overall construction and quality was so poor it would've leaked gas and killed anyone standing outside. fyi, zyklon b was used to kill lice carrying diseases, which was a rampant problem at the [B]labor camps[/B] (why would they kill people who are helping manufacturing for the war effort?); hence why you had piles of shoes and clothes being deloused. all i'm doing here is pointing out inconsistencies with the generally accepted story.
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827962]that's debatable, many censuses show that such a number of jews in europe didn't even exist.[/quote]
[quote]In 1939, there were 17 million Jews in the world, and by 1945 only 11 million. While in the 13 years following the Holocaust the Jewish population grew by one million, it took another 38 years for it to grow another million. These sobering figures reflect how severely Jewish population growth has slowed down over the past 40 years. Even a fertility increase of 0.4% will add millions of Jews over the next 50 years. But this is not happening right now.[/quote]
[url]http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/world-jewish-population.htm[/url]
[quote]In 1933, approximately 9.5 million Jews lived in Europe, comprising 1.7% of the total European population. This number represented more than 60 percent of the world's Jewish population at that time, estimated at 15.3 million.[/quote]
[url]http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005161[/url]
I'm also asking for a source on the "many censuses". Which lmao?
[quote]even so, how could such a number be killed in such a period of time in an efficient and economically sustainable manner? the zyklon b argument is completely false as the blue staining is absent from the alleged "gas chambers"[/quote]
That's because they cleaned it between each use you silly sod.
[quote]not to mention their overall construction and quality was so poor it would've leaked gas and killed anyone standing outside.[/quote]
Source?
[quote]fyi, zyklon b was used to kill lice carrying diseases, which was a rampant problem at the [B]labor camps[/B] (why would they kill people who are helping manufacturing for the war effort?); hence why you had piles of shoes and clothes being deloused.[/QUOTE]
Why was disease high if they were exterminating lice? Why did their shoes and clothing never get returned?
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827666]did you even read my post? you're blaming an entire continent of people for what a minority perpetrated. get that through your head and tell me if it makes any sense at all. you don't need to inflate your post with content-less pathos.[/QUOTE]
okay, let me make this really simple cause you have problems comprehending things:
theres a country called the united states, okay? we live in it. it took slaves from africa...and forced them here!! then we used our law to say they're slaves...and they're property!! we did this for a very long time, our country condoned it by saying it was okay to do so, and no one was being punished for enslaving people!!! does this make sense :)?
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827666]
i'm still waiting for you to address the points made by that video instead of rambling on your personal attacks. [I]that's[/I] why i called you a terrible debater. all you know how to do is appeal to emotion and a primal human construct of revenge rather than unadulterated logic.[/QUOTE]
i dont need to, because you brought up a completely irrelevant video by your KKK hero whose only point is that jews ran the slave trade, thats not the argument im making, if you're gonna say im a terrible debater, then argue my points instead of going back to your antisemitism mode and saying jews did everything
i give you a gold star for trying
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827666]
is this your idea of a defense? call "troll" if all else fails? pathetic.[/QUOTE]
sorry but its been a long time when i saw a genuine white supremacist using a KKK grandwizard as a source against jews and is being an awful anti-semite
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827666]
which white people? all white people? some white people? be more specific than using blanket terms here. nobody here is denying that it ever existed, but your stance gives the impression that you're just as hell-bent on discrimination as those "white people in UNITED STATES".[/QUOTE]
why should i be specific? it's not as if africans brought their own here and ran the majority of the slavery and plantations in the united states, why are you so hellbent on denying that white people were the source of american slavery back then lol, do you need a ticket back to middleschool so you can learn all over again? or are you so steeped into hate that you think all black people are born into poverty because they're black and there is no other factor within it?
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827666]
how do you celebrate the accomplishments of a "race"? [B]PEOPLE[/B] do things, how about we celebrate what those specific individuals have done?[/QUOTE]
you celebrate it by knowing those people swam against the current of actual discrimination and actual racism to get where they got whereas white people had every right and privilege given to them
one is more notable than the other!!!
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827666]
putting words into my mouth? is that all you got? why would you be singling out and blanketing white people unless you really had a racial hatred/bias against them?[/QUOTE]
bro, you're trying to imply that every race in america got here on equal footing and trying to pretend slavery never existed or was extremely minor, the only person with racial hatred/bias is you, mr. david duke fan
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827666]
for the millionth time my point has flown over your hate-filled mind. i'm saying if we raise our children with values that don't include judging people based on factors they can't control, then the problem will solve itself. meanwhile your idea is to keep drilling the exact opposite into people's heads, grant special privileges based on that, and then call it an "accomplishment"; well all you're accomplishing is [B]more discrimination[/B] because your entire fucked up worldview relies on [B]distinguishing based on color of skin[/B]. my god do you even realize how hypocritical you sound right now? if you don't get it then i suggest psychotherapy, maybe then you can drop your silly racial bias.[/QUOTE]
you're telling me i have hate-filled mind yet you listen to david duke and hate jews, okay buddy! and by the way, raising your children with that value is fine, but that isn't going to help the africans who are still in a shit hole of a situation because the effects of slavery, i like how you keep this dodging this point tho, keep accusing me of victimhooding and how i hate white people
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827666]
if nobody cares about white guilt then why are you constantly trying to make all white people feel guilty even though their ancestors might not have even been living in USA/france/UK during the slave trade? your judgement is based entirely on blind assumption.
define oppression:
[I] Prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control.
The state of being subject to such treatment or control.[/I][/QUOTE]
not trying to make anyone feel guilty, that's entirely on you, don't blame me if you feel bad, blame yourself for being of fan david duke tho
there's a difference between 'shame on you' and 'yeah, theres a problem due to the past actions of our country, lets fix it k'
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827666]
who the fuck are you to say that i've never had any personal struggles? again you're assuming things here,[B] with a hint of double standard, again[/B]! its kind of sad how you're proving my point and not even aware of it.[/QUOTE]
when you're born into poverty cause your family's ancestors was forced into slums for circumstances they can't control, and generations of segregation and institutionalized racism made your family extremely difficult to get education or sustain wealth, when you're frisked by cops for no reason, and etc. then you can say you struggled
or you can post a fake sob story how your family or friend died or some other shit you're gonna come up with, i don't care
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827666]
im curious what kind of "action" you would take, how you would determine exactly which individuals (and by whom) were disadvantaged, how you would determine which "white people" have "never dealt with oppression", etc.; your demands are so ambiguous that the only way to accomplish them would be by collectivizing people under your racist ideology and taking whatever you need by force to "compensate".[/QUOTE]
for one, i wouldnt take away black / women history month cause it hurts my feeling
and now you're going conservative mode, this is great, a white supremacist conservative
i'd rather have it so every citizen of the united states have the backing of community and government to achieve what they want, but thats going against reality, i'd rather allocate it so it goes to the generally disadvantaged
ps. white people are not generally disadvantaged, they were never oppressed, and they use welfare, fafsa for college, and etc. like anyone else by the way
the very fact you put quotation marks with white people never dealing with oppression tells me you're delusional
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827666]
in terms of what? intelligence? character? status? it varies from individual so again congrats on being a judgmental racist prick. i can think of a handful of black people that are more talented and wealthy than me; does that mean i have to "equalize" the situation? do i have to take all of Jay-Z's money and give it to impoverished white children in the Appalachian Mountains? do we have to execute Neil deGrasse Tyson for being smarter than some white people?[/QUOTE]
in terms of status, the very fact you brought up intelligence or character tells me either you're ignorant or have been ignoring the entirety what i've been saying
or are you saying that on a general level, white people and black people are all both born in equal socioeconomic grounds?
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827666]
yes, you're trying to make white people feel guilty for what a minority perpetrated.
yes, you're playing the race card with your constant use of labels.
yes, you're victimizing a large number of people and telling them it's okay to never possess a sense of personal responsibility and forgiveness.
yes, you're wrong and pathetic.[/QUOTE]
lmao, you bring up personality responsibility and then forgiveness, my sides hurt from laughing what is this
'yeah, its your fault blackie, you were born into a shit sitaution all by yourself, dont blame us. by the way, forgive us for enslaving you, segregating you, and putting up laws against you, we good xoxoxo'
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827666]
he didnt play the victim card, he actually took action in a responsible and nonviolent manner! yeah i know its so weird, he was acting [I]rationally[/I]. in case you completely missed the quote i put there (by him), he was for equal rights of ALL PEOPLE, so there goes your argument in the dirt.[/QUOTE]
YEAH MAN, i saw mlk march down some famous places and went 'WHITE RIGHTS, WHITE RIGHTS, WHITE RIGHTS'
[QUOTE=tzoz;41827666]
well the quote is founded in historical evidence. who owns a vast majority of the mainstream news/broadcasting corporations? why is AIPAC the largest lobby in washington? why is it a crime to criticize the official story of the holocaust in europe? why do many jewish leaders exploit the suffering from the holocaust to justify the israeli military's actions towards their neighbors? why isn't this ever debated on american mainstream news? why is there a disproportionate amount of jews in banking, finance, telecommunications, hollywood, pornography, security technology, etc.
does this mean all jews are bad? where did i say that? half of my family is jewish and i've met some excellent people who happened to be jewish as well. but i still choose to recognize [B]real world facts[/B]. after reading through your tears, i can't say the same for you.
i could go on and on but the facts are public domain and you can research this yourself. i don't claim for duke to be my hero as he can be dogmatic sometimes, but i don't let that get in the way of listening to all perspectives and judging based on quality and factual consistency of their content, including david duke. THAT is called being unbiased. can you say the same for yourself? because all i see you doing is making bullshit arguments that appeal only to emotion and ego rather than pure logic.[/QUOTE]
im sorry i stopped reading after 'criticize the official story of the holocaust in europe', i knew you were anti-jew, but also a holocaust denier
this thread
this thread
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;41828073][url]http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/world-jewish-population.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005161[/url]
I'm also asking for a source on the "many censuses". Which lmao?
That's because they cleaned it between each use you silly sod.
Source?
Why was disease high if they were exterminating lice? Why did their shoes and clothing never get returned?[/QUOTE]
all the information you're requesting can be found in the video i linked. you can see the physical properties of the alleged chambers. cleaning zyklon b staining? did you even bother to do your homework? it's [B]indelible[/B]. did you even watch the video?
[QUOTE=tzoz;41828135]all the information you're requesting can be found in the video i linked. you can see the physical properties of the alleged chambers. cleaning zyklon b staining? did you even bother to do your homework? it's [B]indelible[/B]. did you even watch the video?[/QUOTE]
I'm asking for you to provide sources. You don't rely on the video. Argue your own points.
[b]6 Million Jews vanished during WW2 in Europe. This is a fact. Where did they go?[/b]
[QUOTE=tzoz;41828135]all the information you're requesting can be found in the video i linked. you can see the physical properties of the alleged chambers. cleaning zyklon b staining? did you even bother to do your homework? it's [B]indelible[/B]. did you even watch the video?[/QUOTE]
THIS IS A HOLOCAUST DENIER TOO LOL
im out, i can't talk with people like this, its impossible, he actually feels hes a victim of oppression as a white man, he denies the holocaust, he denies the african struggle, there's nothing i can say to convince hes wrong since hes so high in his head
im outie
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;41828119]okay, let me make this really simple cause you have problems comprehending things:
theres a country called the united states, okay? we live in it. it took slaves from africa...and forced them here!! then we used our law to say they're slaves...and they're property!! we did this for a very long time, our country condoned it by saying it was okay to do so, and no one was being punished for enslaving people!!! does this make sense :)?[/quote]
i don't get what this has to do with me specifically. my parents immigrated here in the 20th century. how am i personally responsible for something i, nor my ancestors, had any control over, yet you choose to lump me in with those responsible (they're all dead).
you're like a broken record, why don't you say something more constructive? yeah, we get it, slavery happened. now what? what is the culmination of your whining?
[quote]i dont need to, because you brought up a completely irrelevant video by your KKK hero whose only point is that jews ran the slave trade, thats not the argument im making, if you're gonna say im a terrible debater, then argue my points instead of going back to your antisemitism mode and saying jews did everything
i give you a gold star for trying[/quote]
i was bringing historical evidence to the table in case that flew over your head; because if you're going to pass blame then again you should be factual about it.
also im still curious why you're saying he's my "hero" when i've never personally met him, all i did was just link a video by him. oh right, you're not even debating, you're just using ad hominems again.
so what is this, the 99999th time you've completely missed the point?
[quote]sorry but its been a long time when i saw a genuine white supremacist using a KKK grandwizard as a source against jews and is being an awful anti-semite [/quote]
so did you watch the video yet? no? then why are you jumping the gun? do you realize how idiotic this makes you look?
[quote]why should i be specific? it's not as if africans brought their own here and ran the majority of the slavery and plantations in the united states, why are you so hellbent on denying that white people were the source of american slavery back then lol, do you need a ticket back to middleschool so you can learn all over again? or are you so steeped into hate that you think all black people are born into poverty because they're black and there is no other factor within it?[/quote]
again, why needlessly group the perpetrators together when they were actions taken by individuals and not an entire group? it's like you're desperately trying to ignore every point i've made and instead dig your head in the sand like a coward.
[quote]you celebrate it by knowing those people swam against the current of actual discrimination and actual racism to get where they got whereas white people had every right and privilege given to them[/quote]
so we should celebrate suffering? that's kind of cruel if you ask me. and who "gave white people every right and privilege"? please try and make sense for once.
[quote]bro, you're trying to imply that every race in america got here on equal footing and trying to pretend slavery never existed or was extremely minor, the only person with racial hatred/bias is you, mr. david duke fan[/quote]
every race? more like each individual is on equal footing until they [B]do something[/B]. your actions and attitudes define you as a person. there's poor white people and rich white people, shitty white people and good white people, just like any other group that you choose to use. so what in the fuck are you accomplishing by spreading this garbage?
[quote]you're telling me i have hate-filled mind yet you listen to david duke and hate jews, okay buddy![/quote]
so i see you didn't watch the video. also where did i say i hate jews? oh right... you're making things up again. you call this an argument? pathetic.
[quote]and by the way, raising your children with that value is fine, but that isn't going to help the africans who are still in a shit hole of a situation because the effects of slavery, i like how you keep this dodging this point tho,[/quote]
what point? that you're not helping anyone that's been disenfranchised in a way that doesn't subjugate them based on color? oh right, that point; the one i've been tearing up for the past few pages. what good is your endless dwelling on past suffering? all i see you doing is exploiting it rather than rectifying it. quite horrible.
[quote]keep accusing me of victimhooding and how i hate white people[/quote]
as long as you'll recognize that that's exactly what you're doing
[quote]not trying to make anyone feel guilty, that's entirely on you, don't blame me if you feel bad, blame yourself for being of david duke tho[/quote]
more personal attacks?
[quote]there's a difference between 'shame on you' and 'yeah, theres a problem due to the past actions of our country, lets fix it k'[/quote]
so how are you fixing it? oh right all you're doing is dwelling.
[quote]when you're born into poverty cause your family's ancestors was forced into slums for circumstances they can't control, and generations of segregation and institutionalized racism made your family extremely difficult to get education or sustain wealth, when you're frisked by cops for no reason, and etc. then you can say you struggled[/quote]
if you knew me in real life you'd never see me using that as any kind of excuse or crutch for not acting to improve my own individual situation. it's just really cruel and arrogant that you would attempt to downgrade other people's struggled because you think one was worse than the other. everyone goes through their own struggles regardless.
[quote]or you can post a fake sob story how your family or friend died or some other shit you're gonna come up with, i don't care[/quote]
what sob story? i don't dwell on how i've been personally wronged though that sounds like something you would do.
[quote]for one, i wouldnt take away black / women history month cause it hurts my feeling[/quote]
if this month or next month or whatever month is "black/women history month" in your perspective, then so be it. but personally i feel that it's pointless to lump the accomplishments of individuals with a group.
[quote]and now you're going conservative mode, this is great, a white supremacist conservative[/quote]
i'm wondering if this has any basis or point or you're just trying to be a dick. probably the latter.
[quote]in terms of status, the very fact you brought up intelligence or character tells me either you're ignorant or have been ignoring the entirety what i've been saying
or are you saying that on a general level, white people and black people are all both born in equal socioeconomic grounds?[/quote]
but my point is you can't generalize like that. what does that accomplish but fuel more discrimination, hatred, misunderstanding, adversity, etc.?
[quote]lmao, you bring up personality responsibility and then forgiveness, my sides hurt from laughing what is this[/quote]
well yeah, those are very good traits to possess in any given situation, so i forgive you for being so blind to truth.
[quote]'yeah, its your fault blackie, you were born into a shit sitaution all by yourself, dont blame us. by the way, forgive us for enslaving you, segregating you, and putting up laws against you, we good xoxoxo'[/quote]
why does it have to be "blackie"? it could be any person, but all you can see is a "black versus white" scenario. here's a word of advice: getting hung up on factors that you can't control is a waste of your time.
[quote]YEAH MAN, i saw mlk march down some famous places and went 'WHITE RIGHTS, WHITE RIGHTS, WHITE RIGHTS'[/quote]
i guess you didn't read that quote or any of his other writings either.
[quote]I have tried to stand between these two forces, saying that we need emulate neither the "do nothingism" of the complacent nor the hatred and despair of the black nationalist. For there is the more excellent way of love and nonviolent protest. I am grateful to God that, through the influence of the Negro church, the way of nonviolence became an integral part of our struggle. If this philosophy had not emerged, by now many streets of the South would, I am convinced, be flowing with blood. And I am further convinced that if our white brothers dismiss as "rabble rousers" and "outside agitators" those of us who employ nonviolent direct action, and if they refuse to support our nonviolent efforts, millions of Negroes will, out of frustration and despair, seek solace and security in black nationalist ideologies--a development that would inevitably lead to a frightening racial nightmare.[/quote]
[quote]im sorry i stopped reading after 'criticize the official story of the holocaust in europe', i knew you were anti-jew, but also a holocaust denier
this thread
this thread[/QUOTE]
it's okay if you're so entrenched in whatever was taught to you in school, but all i'm doing is being objective, so how does that make me either one of those two labels that you so conveniently made up?
this thread indeed, i'll be sure to wish for the best of your fevered ego.
[editline]13th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;41828180]THIS IS A HOLOCAUST DENIER TOO LOL
im out, i can't talk with people like this, its impossible, he actually feels hes a victim of oppression as a white man, he denies the holocaust, he denies the african struggle, there's nothing i can say to convince hes wrong since hes so high in his head
im outie[/QUOTE]
ragequit and lie much? shows how much integrity your argument has.
[editline]13th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;41828174]I'm asking for you to provide sources. You don't rely on the video. Argue your own points.
[b]6 Million Jews vanished during WW2 in Europe. This is a fact. Where did they go?[/b][/QUOTE]
again these points are already explained in the video which is why i linked it instead of regurgitating what has already been firmly established. it's called being efficient with one's time. can you show me how this is a "fact" with a reliable source with no vested interest? all you've linked is quite to the contrary.
I don't think "reverse racism" is going to make society any less racist. If anything it will continue to make some blacks (just an example) feel victimized by the white man or entitled. Instead of celebrating one race for the sake of making it look like society isn't racist anymore, how about we just put it all behind us and realize that people have changed. I think this reverse racism will just continue to bring up the subject of racism until it ends. The sooner we put it behind us, the better off we will be.
[QUOTE=mcbubba;41835164]I don't think "reverse racism" is going to make society any less racist. If anything it will continue to make some blacks (just an example) feel victimized by the white man or entitled. Instead of celebrating one race for the sake of making it look like society isn't racist anymore, how about we just put it all behind us and realize that people have changed. I think this reverse racism will just continue to bring up the subject of racism until it ends. The sooner we put it behind us, the better off we will be.[/QUOTE]
because non-whites are still disadvantaged, equality has to be attained before you can remove the race boundary, otherwise the only people acknowledging people's races will be the people who hate them because of it
[QUOTE=mcbubba;41835164]I don't think "reverse racism" is going to make society any less racist. If anything it will continue to make some blacks (just an example) feel victimized by the white man or entitled. Instead of celebrating one race for the sake of making it look like society isn't racist anymore, how about we just put it all behind us and realize that people have changed. I think this reverse racism will just continue to bring up the subject of racism until it ends. The sooner we put it behind us, the better off we will be.[/QUOTE]
We can't put racism behind us until all races are equal, but this is not yet the case. Take the offender rates in Australia from 2007-2008 for example, if you were indigenous and lived in NSW you were six times more likely to appear in court ([url]http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/rpp/100-120/rpp107/04.html[/url]). On the subject of sexism (and yes this data is also a few years old but is the latest I could find), in Australia there was roughly a 16% difference in average pay between men and women ([url]http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/our-responsibilities/women/programs-services/economic-security/pay-equity[/url]).
The effects of discrimination against women and non-whites are long lasting and still noticeable today, simply ignoring them will not make them go away. This is why governments usually offer assistance to previously disadvantaged groups. The average life expectancy of an indigenous person is 17 years lower than a non-indigenous ([url]http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-21/fixing-poverty-seen-as-key-to-closing-the-gap/4586744[/url]), so they still have it pretty badly. We recognise black and women's history to identify the struggle of those groups and that there is still a problem that we need to fix.
But no, we should just ignore that because 'reverse racism' is racism? I wonder who the real racist is.
Here's the thing from my perspective:
I've never owned slaves.
My parents have never owned slaves.
My bloodline didn't even arrive in the US until around the 1930's (Yes, I have German Ancestors), and even then, as far back as I've dug (before my bloodline left Germany), they've never owned slaves or in any way helped the slave trade.
I have never judged people by their skin pigment, only by their actions towards me, my family, and my friends.
I agree 100% that slavery in any form is a disgusting practice, and I thank God every day that most sane societies feel the same way.
And yet my neighbors, who just happen to have a dark brown skin pigment, tread myself and my family like shit, because my family just happens to have a light peach skin pigment.
Oh, and why is it that people who never had to wear too-tight iron shackles that carved flesh like butter, or were never forced into the service of assholes who would force them to do horrendous things for the owners amusement, or, hell, in many cases never had a single want in their life; Why is it OK for people like that to say they deserve things they never suffered for? That they deserve things they never fought for?
Why is it OK for people to demand payment or restitution for atrocities that happened to people they never met?
And why is it OK for everyone else to just bend over and kiss ass, trying to get the winning vote instead of telling people to grow up and stop dragging around the past.
Just the other day I saw some teenage asshole saying how his great-great-great-grandparents were slaves and HE deserves money because they suffered. I get the feeling his great-great-great-grandparents are rolling in their graves right now.
In regards to the holiday, keep it. The people who earned those rights and freedoms deserve to be remembered.
I am also a white person whose family has never owned slaves and I think you have a victim complex
The reason for reparations is an attempt to undo financial disadvantages that persist to this day as a result of institutionalized racism. A capitalist system as capitalist-y as America's is really really hard to dig your way out of poverty in. Biased hiring and pay, biased education, and keeping blacks in the ghettos through "white flights" has given an economic situation that is, in fact, passed among the generations. But I digress, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41826814]Slavery as it was practiced in Africa was totally unlike the Slavery practiced in the United States. African slavery more resembled the slavery of Ancient Greece, where slaves had rights like protection from unjust punishment, a right to certain standards of living, the right to have their own property and to buy their freedom, and were often treated like family members by the people who owned them. While this form of slavery is [B]certainly not okay[/B], it is very distinct from the form of slavery that was practiced in the Southern United States which, with a few exceptions like Qin Dynasty China, was historically unique in it's cruelty and inhumanity.
African slavers who sold slaves to Americans absolutely had no idea what kind of lives they were selling those slaves into. Saying "well black people were slavers too" as a way to assuage European and American culpability in the slave trade is woefuly ignorant of historical reality (not to mention economics. Supply and demand, after all).[/QUOTE]
You're joking, right? African slaves were treated anywhere from as gently as first class citizens to as rough as the fucking Mayans.
[editline]15th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41838993]because non-whites are still disadvantaged, equality has to be attained before you can remove the race boundary, otherwise the only people acknowledging people's races will be the people who hate them because of it[/QUOTE]
Equality isn't won by promoting one side, it's done by accepting the fact that we're all equals and paying as little attention to race as possible. Not ignoring it, but also not saying "white people were and are evil slave owners" just as you wouldn't say "blacks are stupid and violent, just look at Africa".
If you get "white people were and are evil slave owners" out of it that is your own victim complex plain and simple
I would love a human history month, but it wont be happening. At least not anytime in my lifetime. Maybe in my great great great great great great grandsons. And even then its probably too early.
We are too divided among ourselves; primarily by petty things like race and gender. This isn't entirely our fault, as our ancestors had a lot to do with how the way things are now. Unfortunately, its too early in the course of human history to be united as a whole.
If we take away either of those two months away, people will instantly jump on the racist and sexist bandwagon.
But by taking them away, its like we are getting rid of an obstacle in our quest for universal unity. If that makes any sense.
And its not like these people are being forgotten. They are just being molded into the bigger picture instead of being their own small portraits.
[QUOTE=katbug;41845096]Equality isn't won by promoting one side, it's done by accepting the fact that we're all equals and paying as little attention to race as possible. Not ignoring it, but also not saying "white people were and are evil slave owners" just as you wouldn't say "blacks are stupid and violent, just look at Africa".[/QUOTE]
If we accept that we're all equals now when we demonstrably aren't, nothing is going to change. Sure, you or I might not care about race, but some people do, and until those people are removed from the system at large we can't act as if everything is already happy and dandy, because with them in charge it very clearly isn't. Once that's done and sorted, yeah, you'd have a point, but it isn't yet, and it won't be for a very long time.
So stop acting like removing the race barrier will do anything at all to fix things, because it won't. Unfortunately, you'll need to actually DO something to fix this problem.
[QUOTE=Cone;41846444]If we accept that we're all equals now when we demonstrably aren't, nothing is going to change. Sure, you or I might not care about race, but some people do, and until those people are removed from the system at large we can't act as if everything is already happy and dandy, because with them in charge it very clearly isn't. Once that's done and sorted, yeah, you'd have a point, but it isn't yet, and it won't be for a very long time.
So stop acting like removing the race barrier will do anything at all to fix things, because it won't. Unfortunately, you'll need to actually DO something to fix this problem.[/QUOTE]
Of course we need to do something, and that "something" starts at kids- in schools they're not taught that we're equal, at least in California we were explicitly told that some races were "more equal" than others. This (surprise, surprise) created really strong animosity between some students. Even if it's true, it impacts kids in a really bad way, and kids are the future.
[QUOTE=katbug;41847670]Of course we need to do something, and that "something" starts at kids- in schools they're not taught that we're equal, at least in California we were explicitly told that some races were "more equal" than others. This (surprise, surprise) created really strong animosity between some students. Even if it's true, it impacts kids in a really bad way, and kids are the future.[/QUOTE]
Well in that case I think that's more down to what you mean by "more equal." If you're just talking about affirmative action then I don't really see how that animosity could still be justified from you after leaving school, and I think it's pretty likely that you just weren't taught properly about the concept of it. And honestly, America's education system isn't too great to begin with, so I agree that that's a problem to fix, just not because of the reasons you're giving me.
And if you mean like, racially superior, then once again, that's more on your teachers for being bad at their jobs than it is a problem in the system. Do you have any evidence that this kind of stuff is being taught by schools at large, or is it all just anecdotal?
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