• Charlie Brooker Teaches John Snow About Video Games
    138 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Rapist;43016457]oh god I haven't watched mock the week in ages, I need to see this.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6rqYMOKEfs[/media]
I get what Onebit and John Snow's point as Video Games are special because you're [i]doing[/i] rather than just observing but there needs to be much much more than that for it to affect anybody,by the time some kid manages to know how to use a controller they would already naturally know that reality and fiction are separate
[QUOTE=onebit;43016547]We don't feel anything because we don't sympathize with the "victim", but the sympathizing part of our brain still experiences a murder as if it was yourself. Some ad called it the mirror neurons. The feeling is basically just suppressed by the fun of pressing a button on a controller.[/QUOTE] when a person dies in a game, they come back in a few seconds, or the next round at the most. if death actually meant enough in a game to say that we're psychologically experiencing a murder, not only would a button not suppress the feeling, but we wouldn't have any form of actionized media at all because it would give everyone PTSD and irrevocably change the way society functions as a whole.
[QUOTE=onebit;43016284]From an objective view, no. A smile is a smile no matter what makes it. [editline]29th November 2013[/editline] I never said the outcome of experiencing violence is violence. You did think they were "real", you just forgot. :)[/QUOTE] I never said you said that. However, you are completely wrong when you say I thought fictional characters were real. I know my memories much better than you do and not once did my 5 year old self believe Rayman punched bad guys, or that Travis was a real man shooting people in Liberty City, or that Harry Mason went to Silent Hill, or anything else. Separating fiction from reality is so simple an infant can do it, you just tell them it isn't real.
[QUOTE=Monkey san;43016362]seems like most of this is bullshit can you issue some sources?[/QUOTE] Well I myself know that there was a period in my life when I thought santa was real, but by the time I started playing videogames I was already past that. I guess there is a time when you might find fictional characters to be real, but it's at such a young age that you shouldn't be playing extremely violent games anyway (or playing vidya at all if you ask me) and once you get past it, it wouldn't have made that much of an impact anyway.
[QUOTE=onebit;43016918]Observing is the same as doing, your brain gets the same input no matter what you do.[/QUOTE] Are you saying that if I witness someone being murdered, I will think that I murdered them? Because that is incredibly silly.
[QUOTE=onebit;43016918]They FEEL real, as in you see the polygons as another living being.[/QUOTE] I get what you're saying, on some level the human brain has to see fictional beings as people, otherwise fiction would mean nothing to us. But that's just it, on SOME level, not THE SAME LEVEL. But the thing is, videogame CHARACTERS make my brain react as if they're people, but NOT enemies. Why? Because the enemies are generic, they have no individuality, my brain sees them as things and not people. If a videogame asks me to murder 100,000 faceless human shaped objects I can do that fine, but if the same game said "hey shoot that guy with a developed personality you've been working with the whole game" I would actually feel regret if I did that and would try not to.
[QUOTE=onebit;43016918]Observing is the same as doing, your brain gets the same input no matter what you do. [editline]29th November 2013[/editline] If you hadn't suppressed your sympathizing part of your brain you would experience what a victim experiences. [editline]29th November 2013[/editline] They FEEL real, as in you see the polygons as another living being.[/QUOTE] Observing is not the same as doing. Like I said, if that was true we'd all have the attitude of hard boiled war veterans by now. By your [I]logic[/I][I],[/I] Call of Duty would have already caused mass combat stress worldwide. Why aren't there organisations dedicated to helping these poor souls that are so affected by their killstreaks? It's a ludicrous claim to make, especially without support. I don't see any polygons as living beings because I know they're fictional. I can get attached to characters and feel bad when my favourites die, but even if I had to kill one I wouldn't grieve like it's a real friend's funeral because anyone with sound mental health can distinguish between fiction and reality.
[QUOTE=onebit;43015998]For a child there is no difference between you or a dog or an animated character. They read expressions like we read words. You just forgot how to read. :)[/QUOTE] If you couldn't tell the difference as a kid then you must have been a very dumb child.
i just skipped to 2:50 for some reason "this is for kids though. this will be literally for four year olds." screen says call of duty ghosts seems about right to me tbh
[QUOTE=onebit;43017752]No, I'm saying you feel empathy for one of them and you feel whatever they feel, because that's how empathy works if you let it work. You forgot how to feel. I feel sad for you. You should explore your childhood. Your brain doesn't label, if you look at a person you feel empathy for that person, no matter who he is or what he does. If he happens to do something you disagree with another part of your brain kicks in and overwrites empathy. Your brain is capable of feeling sympathy for anything. You just have to let it. It is when you only consider empathy. People forget how to feel. Thank you for proving my point. No, it's because you invested more in your friend than the virtual character. Look at Michael Jackson's death, people committed suicide when he died. They felt strongly for someone they never met, just like you would if you wanted.[/QUOTE] I considered empathy, and nope, it's still not the same. Maybe it is for someone who can "forget how to feel", another laughable idea. I didn't prove your point in the next part you quoted, I said it was ludicrous and you cut off the "but" part for the next quote. As for that, Michael Jackson isn't fictional and if you're thinking it's a normal to commit suicide when a fictional character dies you should get checked for mental health issues.
[QUOTE=onebit;43017908]I love you.[/QUOTE] At this point I don't know whether you're out of defensive points or whether you've genuinely [I]forgot how to feel.[/I]
Or he's a massive troll. It is FP after all.
[QUOTE=onebit;43017752]No, I'm saying you feel empathy for one of them and you feel whatever they feel, because that's how empathy works if you let it work. You forgot how to feel. I feel sad for you. You should explore your childhood. Your brain doesn't label, if you look at a person you feel empathy for that person, no matter who he is or what he does. If he happens to do something you disagree with another part of your brain kicks in and overwrites empathy. Your brain is capable of feeling sympathy for anything. You just have to let it. It is when you only consider empathy. People forget how to feel. Thank you for proving my point. No, it's because you invested more in your friend than the virtual character. Look at Michael Jackson's death, people committed suicide when he died. They felt strongly for someone they never met, just like you would if you wanted.[/QUOTE] If you find yourself feeling the same about a fictional character as you would with a real person, that is an issue and you should probably see someone about it.
[QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;43017052]I get what you're saying, on some level the human brain has to see fictional beings as people, otherwise fiction would mean nothing to us. But that's just it, on SOME level, not THE SAME LEVEL. But the thing is, videogame CHARACTERS make my brain react as if they're people, but NOT enemies. Why? Because the enemies are generic, they have no individuality, my brain sees them as things and not people. If a videogame asks me to murder 100,000 faceless human shaped objects I can do that fine, but if the same game said "hey shoot that guy with a developed personality you've been working with the whole game" I would actually feel regret if I did that and would try not to.[/QUOTE] well that is kinda why its common in war to turn the enemy into faceless gooks.
I've killed probably hundreds of thousands of things in games and I have reciprocated that by murdering children you are totally correct onebit
[QUOTE=Lukeo;43018061]I've killed probably hundreds of thousands of things in games and I have reciprocated that by murdering children you are totally correct onebit[/QUOTE] without agreeing with that guy, people who use this argument are equally dumb. Its the equivalent of saying smoking doesn't cause cancer because you don't have it and doesn't anyway discredit what he's saying. So I suggest you try a little harder next time buddy.
[QUOTE=onebit;43018148]I love you too.[/QUOTE] Mate if you have nothing more to add to the conversation either hush up or get out.
[QUOTE=onebit;43018368]I am knee deep in irony, I can't stand it. My proof is right in front of you, yet you continue arguing with me, this is amazing.[/QUOTE] What proof?
[QUOTE=smurfy;43012072]PS4 is finished[/QUOTE] you may be laughing buy I can assure you a few communities on the internet will genuinely use the fact that it happened there as an argument
John Snow is way too opinionated about what video games and the people that play them are like for someone that claims to have never ever played video games before. Maybe he should actually get informed. I could almost say you know nothing John Snow.
[QUOTE=onebit;43017752]No, I'm saying you feel empathy for one of them and you feel whatever they feel, because that's how empathy works if you let it work. You forgot how to feel. I feel sad for you. You should explore your childhood. Your brain doesn't label, if you look at a person you feel empathy for that person, no matter who he is or what he does. If he happens to do something you disagree with another part of your brain kicks in and overwrites empathy. Your brain is capable of feeling sympathy for anything. You just have to let it. It is when you only consider empathy. People forget how to feel. Thank you for proving my point. No, it's because you invested more in your friend than the virtual character. Look at Michael Jackson's death, people committed suicide when he died. They felt strongly for someone they never met, just like you would if you wanted.[/QUOTE] Are you drunk or very high?
[QUOTE=onebit;43015192]I agree with John on two points and[/QUOTE] You are right. Last time I played battlefield I suffered from post traumatic stress disorder. I've seen some shit.
[QUOTE=onebit;43017752]No, I'm saying you feel empathy for one of them and you feel whatever they feel, because that's how empathy works if you let it work. You forgot how to feel. I feel sad for you. You should explore your childhood. Your brain doesn't label, if you look at a person you feel empathy for that person, no matter who he is or what he does. If he happens to do something you disagree with another part of your brain kicks in and overwrites empathy. Your brain is capable of feeling sympathy for anything. You just have to let it. It is when you only consider empathy. People forget how to feel. Thank you for proving my point. No, it's because you invested more in your friend than the virtual character. Look at Michael Jackson's death, people committed suicide when he died. They felt strongly for someone they never met, just like you would if you wanted.[/QUOTE] Someone can actually be very easily traumatized by witnessing a murder or committing one. The fact that no one yet has been traumatized by virtual murder leads me to believe everything your spewing is bullshit. I get what you're saying with the whole empathy thing but it's not normal to not be able to separate fiction from reality and i dont know anything about psycology but i think that's an issue you should probably deal with for real
[QUOTE=onebit;43017752]You forgot how to feel. I feel sad for you. You should explore your childhood. [/QUOTE] Um, I said that I DO FEEL FOR CHARACTERS, did you even read my post before you shot it down? [editline]29th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=NoDachi;43018028]well that is kinda why its common in war to turn the enemy into faceless gooks.[/QUOTE] Yes, exactly.
I was begging for Brooker to make an analogy to movies the entire time to put it into perspective but he didnt argh.
There is always one person. These discussions are like, made to fish out the stupid people.
[QUOTE=The DooD;43018682]John Snow is way too opinionated about what video games and the people that play them are like for someone that claims to have never ever played video games before. Maybe he should actually get informed.[/QUOTE] Have you eve seen John Snow do an interview or anything before? It's his style to play devils advocate.
[QUOTE=onebit;43015192]I agree with John on two points and[/QUOTE] Why do people like you think children are dribbling morons who can't tell the difference between a lego and a human being? children can think for themselves, and they don't need some stuck-up opinionated adult act like they know what they're thinking. also, the experience of killing virtual people in a video game is far, FAR from the experience of killing someone in real life. you've never played a video game in your life, have you? that's surprising, considering this is a forum dedicated to a video game, not to mention you would never have those views if you do play and enjoy games. you'd be severely insulting yourself if you truly believed that horseshit.
[QUOTE=Coffee;43019746]Have you eve seen John Snow do an interview or anything before? It's his style to play devils advocate.[/QUOTE] I was going to say Brooker had a really tough time because this guy's jabs are really harsh but yeah he really is a pro isn't he
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