[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50371378]stop
do not sporterize an enfield, un-fucked vintage military rifles are hard enough to find without people ruining what's left
seriously just buy one that bubba's already jacked up if you want a sporter that bad, 98% of untouched enfields don't need "restoration" let alone sporterization
e: hell if you're in texas and want a project i have a no.4 sporter that i want to get rid of, you can have it for $60[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't buy a genuine vintage WW1 Enfield that saw combat with matching parts and shot, I'd feel bad. There were a porter ones made, they've just aged bad.
[url]http://www.ozgunsales.com/listing/36108/lithgow_smle_303_sporter.html[/url]
[editline]23rd May 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=mugofdoom;50373167]You're better off customizing something like a Remington Model 700[/QUOTE]
Yeah no thanks, as much as I'd like ti get a R700, one in decent condition doesn't sell cheap around here, especially once you add on the price of dealer transfer and transport, I'd blow my budget. And while that Lee Enfield listing is in Victoria, there's one for sale near me for $400 dated 1942
[editline]23rd May 2016[/editline]
That's the sporter one, too, like I linked above
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;50373068]What part of texas? I'm in oklahoma, but that might be worth the trip.[/QUOTE]
A little west of fort worth. In my opinion it's really [I]not[/I] worth the trip unless you just happen to be in the area. As it is it's pretty rough, and I've never shot it. I can't get a .303 into the chamber, I think there's some rust or something keeping it from going in and frankly I don't care enough about it to mess with it much. The bore is dark but not pitted last time I looked, so it might be salvageable if you're determined.
[QUOTE=TechnoSandwic;50373259]I wouldn't buy a genuine vintage WW1 Enfield that saw combat with matching parts and shot, I'd feel bad. There were a porter ones made, they've just aged bad.
[url]http://www.ozgunsales.com/listing/36108/lithgow_smle_303_sporter.html[/url]
[editline]23rd May 2016[/editline]
Yeah no thanks, as much as I'd like ti get a R700, one in decent condition doesn't sell cheap around here, especially once you add on the price of dealer transfer and transport, I'd blow my budget. And while that Lee Enfield listing is in Victoria, there's one for sale near me for $400 dated 1942
[editline]23rd May 2016[/editline]
That's the sporter one, too, like I linked above[/QUOTE]
I don't know what your options are in Australia but surely there are modern bolt action rifles that already accept scopes and custom triggers in the $400 ballpark. In the US, speaking entirely from a practical and economic standpoint, it's pointless to sporterize most mil-surp bolt action rifles today. Even Mosin Nagants have gotten pricey enough to make it not worth it to sporterize them.
The R700 was just an example, by the way. It's what I would consider top of the line in terms of modern bolt action rifles. There are cheaper options that hold their own as well that, even in their stock configuration, wipe the floor with most mil-surp rifles.
Though if it's already sporterized I guess there's not much worse you can do to it besides get rid of what few original parts there are and melt them down or some shit, or do more permanent changes to the rifle. So go for it if that's something you're interested in, I just can't stand seeing people sporterizing mil-surp rifles in this day and age when there are millions of already sporterized rifles that no one wants as it is and a lot of people, myself included, would rather not see the availability of mil-surp rifles go down and the prices go up because people keep fucking up original rifles.
While we're on the topic and I feel like rambling, I've been knocking around the idea of restoring sporterized rifles to their original glory as best as I can for a while now, after seeing a mostly matching Gewehr 43 that someone had sporterized being sold for a mere $800. It'd be really neat to have a small side project or even a small business where I buy up some Bubba specials and do my best to restore them to their original configuration.
[editline]22nd May 2016[/editline]
Also, aren't there modern reproductions of the Lee-Enfield being sold in Australia? I swear I remember looking at some Australian gun sites and seeing modern Lee-Enfield reproductions, some in different calibers. I could be mistaken though.
[QUOTE=mugofdoom;50374244]I don't know what your options are in Australia but surely there are modern bolt action rifles that already accept scopes and custom triggers in the $400 ballpark. In the US, speaking entirely from a practical and economic standpoint, it's pointless to sporterize most mil-surp bolt action rifles today. Even Mosin Nagants have gotten pricey enough to make it not worth it to sporterize them.
The R700 was just an example, by the way. It's what I would consider top of the line in terms of modern bolt action rifles. There are cheaper options that hold their own as well that, even in their stock configuration, wipe the floor with most mil-surp rifles.
Though if it's already sporterized I guess there's not much worse you can do to it besides get rid of what few original parts there are and melt them down or some shit, or do more permanent changes to the rifle. So go for it if that's something you're interested in, I just can't stand seeing people sporterizing mil-surp rifles in this day and age when there are millions of already sporterized rifles that no one wants as it is and a lot of people, myself included, would rather not see the availability of mil-surp rifles go down and the prices go up because people keep fucking up original rifles.
While we're on the topic and I feel like rambling, I've been knocking around the idea of restoring sporterized rifles to their original glory as best as I can for a while now, after seeing a mostly matching Gewehr 43 that someone had sporterized being sold for a mere $800. It'd be really neat to have a small side project or even a small business where I buy up some Bubba specials and do my best to restore them to their original configuration.
[editline]22nd May 2016[/editline]
Also, aren't there modern reproductions of the Lee-Enfield being sold in Australia? I swear I remember looking at some Australian gun sites and seeing modern Lee-Enfield reproductions, some in different calibers. I could be mistaken though.[/QUOTE]
There was a now-defunct company around selling rechambered modern Lee Enfields, Australia International Arms. They had some funky designs but apparently the parts were just sourced from Vietnam War Enfields.
Interesting idea but a very niche market, the calibres were things such as 7.62x39mm. Pretty sure they had one that fed from M14 magazines, too.
[t]https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRIn_Nw4pIyEmrpk3lnqE1eXjvTNy8PhJGm1Y76eWDtes-3PvyA[/t]
[editline]23rd May 2016[/editline]
[url]http://www.303british.com/id41.html[/url]
[QUOTE=mugofdoom;50374244]I don't know what your options are in Australia but surely there are modern bolt action rifle[B]s that already accept scopes and custom triggers in the $400 ballpark[/B]. In the US, speaking entirely from a practical and economic standpoint, it's pointless to sporterize most mil-surp bolt action rifles today. Even Mosin Nagants have gotten pricey enough to make it not worth it to sporterize them.
The R700 was just an example, by the way. It's what I would consider top of the line in terms of modern bolt action rifles. There are cheaper options that hold their own as well that, even in their stock configuration, wipe the floor with most mil-surp rifles.
[/QUOTE]
Hahhahaha. No.
[QUOTE=download;50375273]Hahhahaha. No.[/QUOTE]
Maybe in the American market, you'll only get 20 year old beat up rifles with some no name brand scope here.
My second option is a Tikka T3 but that's like, $650 more.
[QUOTE=TechnoSandwic;50375432]Maybe in the American market, you'll only get 20 year old beat up rifles with some no name brand scope here.
My second option is a Tikka T3 but that's like, $650 more.[/QUOTE]
Tikka's are worth the money in my opinion. For that $700ish you get a rifle that blows the piss out of any Remington at that price range. The only rifle I'd want more would be a savage, but that's just because of all the after market there is for them and the relatively easy barrel swapping.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;50375440]Tikka's are worth the money in my opinion. For that $700ish you get a rifle that blows the piss out of any Remington at that price range. The only rifle I'd want more would be a savage, but that's just because of all the after market there is for them and the relatively easy barrel swapping.[/QUOTE]
I've heard that the stocks on the Savage rifles are cheap feeling, been told to avoid them. Is that just a rumor or common opinion?
[QUOTE=TechnoSandwic;50375508]I've heard that the stocks on the Savage rifles are cheap feeling, been told to avoid them. Is that just a rumor or common opinion?[/QUOTE]
Depends on what end of the $ spectrum you buy. The ones with the new Accustock is pretty damn solid, though the great thing about savage is damn near everyone makes a stock for them.
[QUOTE=TechnoSandwic;50375508]I've heard that the stocks on the Savage rifles are cheap feeling, been told to avoid them. Is that just a rumor or common opinion?[/QUOTE]
my old savage (2008 or so model) was fine
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50372540]it's nearly impossible to find old military rifles that haven't already been tampered with in some way in my area whereas you can get bubba's "improved" mauser, enfield, etc. for $100.
the one i'm trying to be rid of, i bought in its current state (sans bolt) for $60 and added a bolt, another $60. still don't want it. im selling it for $60. before the prior owner wrecked it it would've been worth $600 at least.
since you lack a sense of history to appeal to, let's try this: why buy a rare and valuable (nevermind historic) rifle just to turn it into yet another dime a dozen mutant sporter when you can already get one of those for dirt??? it's like buying a mint 32 ford, using your grandpappy's hacksaw to chop the top, tearing the fenders off with a sawzall and dropping a 350 in it. it goes from an $80,000 car to a $10,000 car in seconds flat and that's if you aren't concerned in the slightest about the sacked historic value of the thing.
i saved a minty bcd 45 kar98k from the very jaws of sporterization - a rifle worth a couple thousand dollars nearly turned into a $200 waste of time. brought back from the second world war by a vet who plucked it from the factory floor, preserved for the next 70 years by someone who cared about it - and most of it was about to get chopped off and chunked in the trash. why would you do this? there's no excuse[/QUOTE]
I couldn't agree more with this, so I want to chip in.
My example is that Denmark has thousands of old military Mausers floating around that have mostly been sporterized. This means a new stock, new sights, and a 6,5x55 barrel, and they are often not worth more than 80 USD, even when in decent condition. A beat up, mismatched WW2 era 98K is worth at least five times as much as a decent condition sporter here, and a matching one in good condition could be worth more than twelve times that of a sporter.
If we're still going on about my idea...
I've already established it won't be a genuine untouched Enfield. I would only change up a non-genuine/sporter.
Also I see very little sporters, there's plenty of untouched Enfields on the market here
[QUOTE=TechnoSandwic;50375984]If we're still going on about my idea...
I've already established it won't be a genuine untouched Enfield. I would only change up a non-genuine/sporter.
Also I see very little sporters, there's plenty of untouched Enfields on the market here[/QUOTE]
You see little sporters because few will admit to owning one. There are tonnes on usedguns.com.au
[QUOTE=download;50376057]You see little sporters because few will admit to owning one. There are tonnes on usedguns.com.au[/QUOTE]
Are those self made or refurbished/made for sporting purposes, like the SportCo and Lithgow ones?
[editline]23rd May 2016[/editline]
Took a look, lot of them are post 1940 sporter wildcat .303s.
Had the opportunity to handle a parts-kitted M16A1 at a museum event the other day.
I now understand why our guys in Vietnam hated that rifle in comparison to the M14. The hand-guard felt like a cheap, brittle piece of shit.
[QUOTE=TechnoSandwic;50375984]If we're still going on about my idea...
I've already established it won't be a genuine untouched Enfield. [U]I would only change up a non-genuine/sporter.[/U]
Also I see very little sporters, there's plenty of untouched Enfields on the market here[/QUOTE]
why would you [img]https://facepunch.com/fp/ratings/cross.png[/img] and [img]https://facepunch.com/fp/ratings/box.png[/img] posts telling you not to sporterize an untouched original then
[QUOTE=Icy Fire;50372451]If someone buys a rifle, they can customize it however they damn well please. Your taste isn't somehow superior to everyone else's because 'muh historical significance.'[/QUOTE]
This is of course true, but it's fucking stupid to take an enfield or any other military surplus rifle and start tacking on "custom parts" bought off of midway.com. You can take a $600 rifle and dump another $600 to it, not including cost for a good scope, and it still won't compare to a modern manufacture $300 rifle you can buy in any sporting goods store.
Historical value aside, it's just stupid to butcher an old rifle like that. It's not cheap or practical.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50376514]This is of course true, but it's fucking stupid to take an enfield or any other military surplus rifle and start tacking on "custom parts" bought off of midway.com. You can take a $600 rifle and dump another $600 to it, not including cost for a good scope, and it still won't compare to a modern manufacture $300 rifle you can buy in any sporting goods store.
Historical value aside, it's just stupid to butcher an old rifle like that. It's not cheap or practical.[/QUOTE]
guns are the only field where $600 + $600 = $200
[QUOTE=TechnoSandwic;50375984]If we're still going on about my idea...
I've already established it won't be a genuine untouched Enfield. I would only change up a non-genuine/sporter.
Also I see very little sporters, there's plenty of untouched Enfields on the market here[/QUOTE]
If you want an Enfield in a sporter capacity, buy a different gun dood. They're not cheap for what they are, they're expensive to run ammo through, and they're not as good as a modern rifle. I know your options are limited, but find a modern bolt action hunting rifle, it will serve you far better than a 70 year old beat to death enfield butchered by some fud trying to kill roo's.
I dunno, I'm really strapped for cash and I always like a project where I build up something to an end product.
I am having to put money towards a multitude of things including a weapon safe, a new computer, and more importantly to me, a clay shooting O/U.
I would really love to go that extra mile and cough up the money for a Tikka or R700 or something along those lines, but the Tikka itself is like, $1000 without a scope (Or they come with a shitty scope and scope rings).
I really just want a rifle that is cheap enough, durable enough, and is capable of target shooting. It will sit in a safe majority of the time and see little use so I can't really justify spending 1k on a gUn on top of a 1.5-2.5k skeet gun.
.303 is also rather plentiful and cheap here, with there being so many Enfields around.
[editline]23rd May 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50376530]they're expensive to run ammo through[/QUOTE]
My local shop sells .303 typically $25-$35 a packet of 20 rounds of .303. It's only when you buy one of those wildcat .303-25 SMLE sporters that ammo becomes expensive
[editline]23rd May 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50376514]This is of course true, but it's fucking stupid to take an enfield or any other military surplus rifle and start tacking on "custom parts" bought off of midway.com. You can take a $600 rifle and dump another $600 to it, not including cost for a good scope, and it still won't compare to a modern manufacture $300 rifle you can buy in any sporting goods store.
Historical value aside, it's just stupid to butcher an old rifle like that. It's not cheap or practical.[/QUOTE]
I wish our market was like that but compared to the American market, shit is fucking expensive. 1k for a mid tier gun is a norm here.
a bone stock SMLE or no.4 if the SMLE is too heavy for you is perfectly fine for pretty much anything unless you're doing weird high end match shooting where a sporterized one wouldn't do you any good anyway, you don't need to "upgrade" them to get performance out of one in good shape. like cyke lon bee said, if you're a stickler for performance, no amount of modding an enfield will make it as technically capable as higher end platforms and you will end up spending more on the gun trying than you would have if you just bought a modern rifle, then you'll be stuck with a mutant you won't be able to get rid of
take it from someone who's owned several enfields, sporterizing them is pointless. learn how to shoot and you won't need to mold the rifle to suit your bad habits
i did better on the range with my 1918 lithy SMLE than my buddy did with his R700 and he had a scope. when dealing with normal ranges it's more about your ability and less about the rifle's. enfields may not be the most accurate military rifles but they're up there and they don't need help unless you're talking about stupid high distances
I'll give it a go and see what I think if I pick one up. Right now I'm still awaiting on licenses (which can take anywhere from 6 weeks to a year), a safe and a Permit to Acquire (28 days+). I have plenty of time to think about and hey, if I have enough money when that time comes around I'll look into getting a Tikka instead.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;50376651]how on earth is 2,5-3,5 aud a round anywhere near cheap or even average for .303? that's an insane price even here
[editline]23rd May 2016[/editline]
if you can only afford a mid range o/u and a very cheap rifle i'd rather just wait with the rifle[/QUOTE]
That's like A$1.25 to A$2 around. Your maths is bad.
I bought 200 rounds for A$220 last year from a local gunshop. I think that's cheaper than the US at the moment. 180gr SP too.
Cheapest .303 I can find here anymore is like $30/20 plus 13% tax (which is not included in the listed sale price).
[QUOTE=TechnoSandwic;50376591]I dunno, I'm really strapped for cash and I always like a project where I build up something to an end product.[/quote]
If you're strapped for cash, save it and buy a rifle thats actually decent. If you rush into this and buy some piece of shit thats going to make people look down on you, which it absolutely will, then you're gonna be miserable and hate the sport because you were too impatient to save your money for a good rifle.
[QUOTE=TechnoSandwic;50376591]
I am having to put money towards a multitude of things including a weapon safe, a new computer, and more importantly to me, a clay shooting O/U.[/quote]
Then save your money and buy a decent rifle when you save up enough.
[QUOTE=TechnoSandwic;50376591]
I would really love to go that extra mile and cough up the money for a Tikka or R700 or something along those lines, but the Tikka itself is like, $1000 without a scope (Or they come with a shitty scope and scope rings).[/quote]
Then save up $1500 and buy a T3 with a nice scope. Your country's minimum wage is about $3,000 a month with a full time job. You can easily save up the money for a decent rifle in a month or 2 if you properly save your money.
[QUOTE=TechnoSandwic;50376591]
I really just want a rifle that is cheap enough, durable enough, and is capable of target shooting. It will sit in a safe majority of the time and see little use so I can't really justify spending 1k on a gUn on top of a 1.5-2.5k skeet gun.[/quote]
Then pick one or the other. Why buy something you will only use once a year?
[QUOTE=TechnoSandwic;50376591]
.303 is also rather plentiful and cheap here, with there being so many Enfields around.
[editline]23rd May 2016[/editline]
My local shop sells .303 typically $25-$35 a packet of 20 rounds of .303. It's only when you buy one of those wildcat .303-25 SMLE sporters that ammo becomes expensive
[/quote]
Lol thats not cheap dood. [QUOTE=TechnoSandwic;50376591]
[editline]23rd May 2016[/editline]
I wish our market was like that but compared to the American market, shit is fucking expensive. 1k for a mid tier gun is a norm here.[/QUOTE]
Shits expensive down there but your guys' minimum wage is close to some of the higher hourly paid wage in the US. To get $17+ an hour, you usually need a 4 or 6 year degree of some sort, But there you can get that with a job at a convenience store.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50380356]If you're strapped for cash, save it and buy a rifle thats actually decent. If you rush into this and buy some piece of shit thats going to make people look down on you, which it absolutely will, then you're gonna be miserable and hate the sport because you were too impatient to save your money for a good rifle.
Then save your money and buy a decent rifle when you save up enough.
Then save up $1500 and buy a T3 with a nice scope. Your country's minimum wage is about $3,000 a month with a full time job. You can easily save up the money for a decent rifle in a month or 2 if you properly save your money.
Then pick one or the other. Why buy something you will only use once a year?
Lol thats not cheap dood.
Shits expensive down there but your guys' minimum wage is close to some of the higher hourly paid wage in the US. To get $17+ an hour, you usually need a 4 or 6 year degree of some sort, But there you can get that with a job at a convenience store.[/QUOTE]
1. Why would using an Enfield make people look down on me? I'd wager about 40% of people at the range use various SMLEs, No .4s, sporter converts, etc. A lot of gun owners I've talked to have, at one point in their time of having a license, had a SMLE.
2. I'm a student with a crappy part time job. My min wage is $7.98 and I get paid $8.45/hour. I barely get any shifts in a week. Saving money isn't as easy as it sounds as I have little income.
3. As I said above.
4. I'd use it, probably around like, once every 2-3 months.
5. .308 Win 150g is $38.45/20 rounds, how is that [I]not[/I] cheap enough?
6. As I've said earlier.
he's saying you'll be looked down on for butchering a classic rifle by everyone who's anyone. once again there are fucking tons of them already trashed, you can get one of those if you really want but we're trying to tell you it's [B]not cost effective[/B]. you'd be better off waiting and buying a tikka. if money is so tight you can't even save it a little longer you don't need to be buying guns, let alone planning expensive gunsmithing.
[QUOTE=TechnoSandwic;50380982]
5. .308 Win 150g is $38.45/20 rounds, how is that [I]not[/I] cheap enough?
[/QUOTE]
Reloading is useful.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50376606]a bone stock SMLE or no.4 if the SMLE is too heavy for you is perfectly fine for pretty much anything unless you're doing weird high end match shooting where a sporterized one wouldn't do you any good anyway, you don't need to "upgrade" them to get performance out of one in good shape. like cyke lon bee said, if you're a stickler for performance, no amount of modding an enfield will make it as technically capable as higher end platforms and you will end up spending more on the gun trying than you would have if you just bought a modern rifle, then you'll be stuck with a mutant you won't be able to get rid of
take it from someone who's owned several enfields, sporterizing them is pointless. learn how to shoot and you won't need to mold the rifle to suit your bad habits
i did better on the range with my 1918 lithy SMLE than my buddy did with his R700 and he had a scope. when dealing with normal ranges it's more about your ability and less about the rifle's. enfields may not be the most accurate military rifles but they're up there and they don't need help unless you're talking about stupid high distances[/QUOTE]
wouldn't this still apply if he bought a sporter for cheap? except it would be cheaper which is probably better for someone with no interest in curio and relic stuff. Or am i missing something?
[QUOTE=dude709;50381029]wouldn't this still apply if he bought a sporter for cheap? except it would be cheaper which is probably better for someone with no interest in curio and relic stuff. Or am i missing something?[/QUOTE]
sporterized rifles perform [I]worse[/I] in almost every case I've seen without ungodly sums being dumped into them to bring them up to spec, in which case he won't be getting it cheap
and if he buys one of [I]those[/I] he might as well have bought a tikka which will [I]still[/I] be better
sporterizing these rifles made sense in the 60s and 70s when they weren't valuable antiques and when the equivalent role commercial rifles were no better - now? it's a waste of money and a waste of history
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