[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50677586]I liked the one I played with. Plus, it has unbeatable space gun looks and STALKER. I did not like the Tavor I handled at all.[/QUOTE]
The X95 is quite a bit different than the Tavor. They moved all the controls to be like an AR-15, including the mag release. They also put the charging handle at a 90 degree angel as opposed to the 45, and made it so you can have just a normal trigger guard in place of the giant stupid hand guard. Plus they made the rails integral to the gun, with the forend being made up of rail covers.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;50677575]If it's gotta be a bullpup and you're going to spend that kind of money get an X95 IMO. The FS200 is just clunky and awkward.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I'd just wait and get a Desert Tech MDR when those come out, if you want to wait and pay SCAR tier $$$ for what should be the best bullpup yet.
Otherwise, get an AUG with a NATO stock that takes USGI mags; that being said, regular AUG mags aren't that expensive and are pretty durable and reliable.
And magpul just came out with PMags for the AUG and it's variants.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;50677575]If it's gotta be a bullpup and you're going to spend that kind of money get an X95 IMO. The FS200 is just clunky and awkward.[/QUOTE]
Local shop has a used one is the only reason I'm considering it. It's one of the overrun models or whatever, so it's a little bit cheaper twice over.
I've rented one and liked the ergonomics, and it has always been sort of a dream gun of mine.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;50677204]Might impulse buy an FS2000 tomorrow.
Need lefty friendly.
Need 5.56.
Need tacticool.[/QUOTE]
It's a good investment, FN doesn't sell them anymore so they're only going to go up in value as long as you treat it right. Plus it's an FS2k, they're fucking awesome.
no such thing as a good bullpup
[QUOTE=butre;50678783]no such thing as a good bullpup[/QUOTE]
I don't understand.
Don't get a Tavor, they fart on you. Really disappointing for a gun that costs $2700.
I absolutely adored the AUG I handled, but have hated most other bullpups so far other than the FN2k and the P90.
I've heard bad things about the Australian Army's F88SA2 (Locally produced version of the AUG for the military) trigger, not sure if that applies to the civilian AUGs. Aren't triggers usually shoddy things with bullpups?
Also, civilian AUGs are abundant in Kiwi land. Their dumb "no free floating pistol grips on semi auto rifles on standard license" bullshit entices a lot of people to buy 'em.
I've only heard good things about the Steyr Aug. (as long as we're not talking CSGO)
[QUOTE=TechnoSandwic;50679493]I've heard bad things about the Australian Army's F88SA2 (Locally produced version of the AUG for the military) trigger, not sure if that applies to the civilian AUGs. Aren't triggers usually shoddy things with bullpups?
Also, civilian AUGs are abundant in Kiwi land. Their dumb "no free floating pistol grips on semi auto rifles on standard license" bullshit entices a lot of people to buy 'em.[/QUOTE]
Not "shoddy" in quality, they are really just "functional"? What keeps the bullpup trigger from being good is the transfer bar that goes from the trigger all the way back to the actual sear/hammer.
Look at most modern handguns, Glock is a perfect example of what a bullpup trigger feels like; you have a transfer bar coming off the trigger along the right side of the frame and back to the sear and you get a somewhat spongy takeup until it breaks.
My CZ P09 has one as well and it makes for a lot of slack in SA mode, but the break is much cleaner than a Glock.
Having handled an FS2000, AUG, Tavor with and without Timney and Geissele triggers, kel tec RDB, and Desert Tech MDR, I can say that the Kel Tec and Desert Tech have the best stock triggers.
I never noticed triggers. I was never one of those people. I mean, the KSG trigger feels fine to me and that's a bullpup. But than again so does the Glock, so does my M1 Carbine etc. etc.
The only trigger I've ever used I didn't like is the one on my SCCY CPX-2 because not only is it double action but there is a ton of play in it and it feels like it's made of tin. I mean, it works but doesn't mean I don't acknowledge it's a little meh.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;50680062]I never noticed triggers. I was never one of those people. I mean, the KSG trigger feels fine to me and that's a bullpup. But than again so does the Glock, so does my M1 Carbine etc. etc.
The only trigger I've ever used I didn't like is the one on my SCCY CPX-2 because not only is it double action but there is a ton of play in it and it feels like it's [B]made of tin.[/B] I mean, it works but doesn't mean I don't acknowledge it's a little meh.[/QUOTE]
Its actually made of plastic...
:v:
[QUOTE=Camwi_003;50681698]Its actually made of plastic...
:v:[/QUOTE]
Stop saying good things about bad guns. It's bad to build up a crappy manufacture's confidence when it will never be able to compete with the big boys.:hiddendowns:
[QUOTE=$$>MUFFIN<$$;50678802]I don't understand.[/QUOTE]
the triggers suck as a rule due to the nasty transfer bar system they have to use, depending on design they either eject cases into the lips of a southpaw or onto the floor under your feet making you slip and fall and bust your head, they're balanced weird, they weigh more than a comparable traditional carbine, and most important of all they're universally ugly
Did not buy F2000
Called on phone, said they wanted 2.5k+fees for one, used.
I asked why they're charging NIB price for a gun that is used (with signs of use present, not rough, but anyone could spot it wasn't new)
"Well, that's just what the prices are nowadays. Would you like to talk layaway?"
Hung up the phone.
Guess I'll just nab a boring AR then
Tavor with a replacement trigger pack is pretty okay but the second stage break is not particularly solid. Supposedly Geissele's Lightning Bow trigger eliminates the slack so it's not an insurmountable engineering problem.
Speaking of drop in triggers, am I the only AR shooter who doesn't find any issues with standard Mill-spec GI triggers?
A nice trigger has always just been a bonus to me. I've never had issues shooting with shitty triggers.
[QUOTE=mastoner20;50682348]Speaking of drop in triggers, am I the only AR shooter who doesn't find any issues with standard Mill-spec GI triggers?[/QUOTE]
If you are used to heavy pulls like a double action revolver, then yeah, a mil spec trigger is good enough. If you want to split hairs though, a better trigger is usually sought out.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50682356]A nice trigger has always just been a bonus to me. I've never had issues shooting with shitty triggers.[/QUOTE]
Same. It's actually a bonus for me, I have to put up with USGI triggers during duty with the Guard. Train as you fight, as the saying goes.
Apparently the shooter in Dallas was using an SKS.
[QUOTE=butre;50681994]the triggers suck as a rule due to the nasty transfer bar system they have to use, depending on design they either eject cases into the lips of a southpaw or onto the floor under your feet making you slip and fall and bust your head, they're balanced weird, they weigh more than a comparable traditional carbine, and most important of all they're universally ugly[/QUOTE]
Well I loved the F88 every time I used it. The trigger is perfectly fine, the weight is beautiful and the balance is great. No complaints from me on it, and I have never heard one first hand other than Download.
augs are one of the better designs, but they're still sub par compared to a traditional layout
[QUOTE=butre;50682991]augs are one of the better designs, but they're still sub par compared to a traditional layout[/QUOTE]
Depends on the intended application, to be honest. If I were planning on fighting in close quarters or heavy brush, I'd definitely want a bullpup. Open woods or fields, I'd prefer a conventional pattern, though we all know how easily the mission can change.
Close combat is described by FM3-21.8, The Infantry Rifle Platoon and Squad, as "callous and unforgiving" and being "characterized by extreme violence and physiological shock".
A short-profile weapon firing rifle rounds offers a tremendous advantage over traditional rifles in tight quarters. It has a shitty trigger? Who cares, the guy's ten feet away and pointing an AK at your chest. When you're fighting in a close environment, you want every advantage that training, weapons and equipment have to offer you. It makes the difference between life and death.
in close quarters I'd rather just have a shorter barrel. in heavy brush, I'd want something more substantial than 5.56
[QUOTE=butre;50682991]augs are one of the better designs, but they're still sub par compared to a traditional layout[/QUOTE]
Well I disagree.
[QUOTE=butre;50683049]in close quarters I'd rather just have a shorter barrel. in heavy brush, I'd want something more substantial than 5.56[/QUOTE]
That's the thing about 5.56 bullpups. They're a compromise of a compromise.
You want a rifle, but you don't want it to weight ten goddamn pounds and chew through ammo like crazy? Here, have this super light-weight, low-caliber rifle. It might feel like a toy, and boy does it sure suck at killing things, but hey, it's light, and you can carry a shit ton of ammo for it.
Oh, your super light-weight rifle is too long? Gee pal, that's too bad. Let's try chopping the barrel down. Oh, still too long? Hmm. What if... EUREKA! We'll change the entire layout! Magazine, chamber and bolt carrier at the rear, pistol grip and trigger at the center of the barrel! Fuck the butt-stock, you don't need no stinkin' butt-stock! This is genius! Pure genius!
Shame about that trigger though.
including glass and a loaded 30 rounder my ar weighs just shy of 8 lbs, and that's with some heavy ass furniture (magpul str, moe+ grip, moe forend and mvg grip). a bone standard ar15 can be 5 pounds easy. give it a 12 inch barrel and maybe 4 pounds. I'd rather carry a short barreled ar with CAR furniture that weighs 4 pounds than a comparable aug that weighs 7
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;50683095]That's the thing about 5.56 bullpups. They're a compromise of a compromise.
You want a rifle, but you don't want it to weight ten goddamn pounds and chew through ammo like crazy? Here, have this super light-weight, low-caliber rifle. It might feel like a toy, and boy does it sure suck at killing things, but hey, it's light, and you can carry a shit ton of ammo for it.
Oh, your super light-weight rifle is too long? Gee pal, that's too bad. Let's try chopping the barrel down. Oh, still too long? Hmm. What if... EUREKA! We'll change the entire layout! Magazine, chamber and bolt carrier at the rear, pistol grip and trigger at the center of the barrel! Fuck the butt-stock, you don't need no stinkin' butt-stock! This is genius! Pure genius!
Shame about that trigger though.[/QUOTE]
I'd rather a 5.56 bullpup with a 16" barrel than a 10" barrel AR.
[editline]10th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=butre;50683173]including glass and a loaded 30 rounder my ar weighs just shy of 8 lbs, and that's with some heavy ass furniture (magpul str, moe+ grip, moe forend and mvg grip). a bone standard ar15 can be 5 pounds easy. give it a 12 inch barrel and maybe 4 pounds. I'd rather carry a short barreled ar with CAR furniture that weighs 4 pounds than a comparable aug that weighs 7[/QUOTE]
3.5lbs is the new threshold:
[url]http://www.alloutdoor.com/2016/06/15/fostechs-3-5-pound-ar-15/[/url]
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