Are Savage Arms shotguns terrible or something? They're $170 at the walmart here.
[QUOTE=Levelog;50102733]Are Savage Arms shotguns terrible or something? They're $170 at the walmart here.[/QUOTE]
It's another made in China shotgun that's relabeled as the Stevens 320 by Savage. Buy it to have a cheap shotgun, but don't expect quality or reliability like a Mossberg or Remington. Most common failures with the 320 are ejectors breaking and extractors failing.
I don't trust Savage's products that are not bolt action rifles.
I figured as much. Wasn't really considering one as I can pick up used 870's here for not too much more, just curious.
[editline]9th April 2016[/editline]
Or hell even a Maverick
[QUOTE=Levelog;50102771]I figured as much. Wasn't really considering one as I can pick up used 870's here for not too much more, just curious.
[editline]9th April 2016[/editline]
Or hell even a Maverick[/QUOTE]
Realistically, the Maverick is a Mossberg 500, just with an even cheaper trigger group on it and no tang safety. Built on the same tooling and materials too. Machine in the tang, switch trigger groups, and you have a basic 500.
[QUOTE=Lone_Star94;50102725]What brand is the SxS?[/QUOTE]
It's a generic Belgian import, branded Parkhurst, it's real old - 1906ish. Pretty sure it was bought from a Sears catalog, I have one from that time period and found one that looks just like it.
I think the chambers are probably 2.5" considering the age of the gun but I've never got around to measuring. I know the way shotgun chambers are cut so I know [I]how[/I] to measure, just never have. It sticks on opening with 2 3/4 shells and the concern is that it could create a pressure situation that could damage the gun because the shells may not be opening enough.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50102599]The gun stores here usually give you a box or two of ammo for free with any purchase. When I bought my M10 I had to get a bag to carry out all the boxes of 12ga they gave me and I still haven't burned it all up. :v:[/QUOTE]
My LGS only made $90 off the sale of the Marlin and I wasn't about to ask him to literally 1/3 off of that to give me a free box of ammo (his $36 box of ammo costs him $26)
[editline]9th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Levelog;50102733]Are Savage Arms shotguns terrible or something? They're $170 at the walmart here.[/QUOTE]
They're truck guns.
Don't expect it to perform miracles, but if you want a cheap shotgun to fuck around with and experiment with loading dumb shit into shotshells, that's what you want.
[editline]9th April 2016[/editline]
So hey can anyone here tell me something?
What exactly is stopping someone who wants an SVT-40 in America from meeting up somewhere along the 9,000 kilometers of almost entirely unpoliced border between America and Canada with a Canadian and giving them American money for one?
How the fuck would anyone ever know without inspecting the gun closely enough to realize there's no American import stamp.
I dunno about any of you but the last time a stranger got that close to my gun I was standing literally right behind him as he shot it (we were trading shots, him with an AK-74 and me with my musket)
Import stamps aren't/weren't even a federal requirement for a long time, so technically nothing, but if you get caught somehow, you will never ever own a firearm again.
once it's in it's in, it's getting it in that's the challenge.
[editline]10th April 2016[/editline]
you can bring something in from russia or china or whatever too if you like. as long as it doesn't violate the NFA once it's in it's legal.
of course getting it in is super illegal and probably not worth the risk. maybe doable through canada but if it has to cross water it's gonna be a real challenge. mexico or south america or cuba might be fine too if you come in from the sea into the gulf coast.
a common method for smuggling drugs or cuban cigars is to come into the gulf coast or florida with a ballast tank loaded with contraband, could probably use that same method for guns. they don't tend to check ballast tanks unless the barge is obviously sitting low but just a couple dozen guns in there isn't going to make enough of a difference to arouse suspicion.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50103141]Import stamps aren't/weren't even a federal requirement for a long time, so technically nothing, but if you get caught somehow, you will never ever own a firearm again.[/QUOTE]
Right that's my question is how would you get caught?
[editline]9th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=butre;50103212]once it's in it's in, it's getting it in that's the challenge.
[editline]10th April 2016[/editline]
you can bring something in from russia or china or whatever too if you like. as long as it doesn't violate the NFA once it's in it's legal.[/QUOTE]
I feel like that's not entirely true, though. Only certain firearms can be imported from Russia, for example. Even if you got it into the country if it's something that's banned from importation (i.e. a VSS Vintorez) it would still be illegal right?
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;50103233]Right that's my question is how would you get caught?[/QUOTE]
By posting it on a public forum is the only way I can think of :v:
A Vintorez is illegal 10 ways to sunday because of being an integrally suppressed, full auto SBR and because every single one is property of the Russian government. They aren't specifically banned.
A better comparison might be, say, an MTs-255, which is a gun I'd love to own. They have not been cleared for import so if you are somehow known to have one by the ATF you can consider yourself under investigation and probably under arrest. I don't think there's any way for an individual to import a firearm from outside of the country for personal use. The law is very anti-citizen in this regard.
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;50103233]Right that's my question is how would you get caught?
[editline]9th April 2016[/editline]
I feel like that's not entirely true, though. Only certain firearms can be imported from Russia, for example. Even if you got it into the country if it's something that's banned from importation (i.e. a VSS Vintorez) it would still be illegal right?[/QUOTE]
they're not banned from import, they're just full of NFA violations.
something like an MP-443, while non existent in the US, is not illegal and it wouldn't be hard to say "yeah I got it off some guy named jeff at a gun show a few years ago"
[QUOTE=butre;50103312]they're not banned from import, they're just full of NFA violations.
something like an MP-443, while non existent in the US, is not illegal and it wouldn't be hard to say "yeah I got it off some guy named jeff at a gun show a few years ago"[/QUOTE]
Well technically they are, at least from Russia. Due to their configuration they would be considered assault weapons, and thus as they sit they couldn't be imported. Now if they neutered the hell out of them, made them "sporting weapons", and then had them imported and de-neutered with American parts then they would be just fine minus the full auto. Problem is there's not enough of them out there to be able to import them on the cheap, and while there's plenty of surplus ammo for it's native chamber considering that it and only a handful of other designs use the round it would be very difficult to justify and amount that could be imported cost-effectively.
A more economic option would be to make new production here in the US in either 7.62x39 or maybe even .300blk. While it may be heresy to the purists, its the closest you'd be able to get without dropping huge piles of cash. The problem with that once again is the economics of scale. I order to be able to sell them at a decent price to the public you need to be able to make a lot of them and have the infrastructure to do so. Otherwise you're left building $2000+ rifles that will only appeal to serious shooters/collectors. It also doesn't help that it has practically no parts commonality with the AK, so while you could probably get a Tapco G2 Trigger group to work in it and maybe change up the receiver dimensions to accept AK furniture your major parts such as the bolt carrier and piston would have to be made from scratch. You could make them compatible but that that point you've diviated from the original design enough that one could simply call it an integrally suppressed AK.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50102900]It's a generic Belgian import, branded Parkhurst, it's real old - 1906ish. Pretty sure it was bought from a Sears catalog, I have one from that time period and found one that looks just like it.
I think the chambers are probably 2.5" considering the age of the gun but I've never got around to measuring. I know the way shotgun chambers are cut so I know [I]how[/I] to measure, just never have. It sticks on opening with 2 3/4 shells and the concern is that it could create a pressure situation that could damage the gun because the shells may not be opening enough.[/QUOTE]
Take it to a smith and have him pour a mold of the chambers.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50103253]A Vintorez is illegal 10 ways to sunday because of being an integrally suppressed, full auto SBR and because every single one is property of the Russian government. They aren't specifically banned.
A better comparison might be, say, an MTs-255, which is a gun I'd love to own. They have not been cleared for import so if you are somehow known to have one by the ATF you can consider yourself under investigation and probably under arrest. I don't think there's any way for an individual to import a firearm from outside of the country for personal use. The law is very anti-citizen in this regard.[/QUOTE]
The US government won't give a shit that it's Russian property. The Russians have probably lost plenty of them in Ukraine.
If you de-mill the suppressor and the receiver you could easily import it.
So I finally got my limited edition Mk III 22/45 for selling a shit ton of rugers
[img]http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo18/UncleJimmema/IMG_20160409_225429471.jpg[/img]
You're not gonna find this color at your local gun shop.
It's cool that they do that but man that's kinda ugly
[QUOTE=download;50103456]The US government won't give a shit that it's Russian property. The Russians have probably lost plenty of them in Ukraine.
If you de-mill the suppressor and the receiver you could easily import it.[/QUOTE]
yeah you can get demilled anything into the country no problem
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50103253]A Vintorez is illegal 10 ways to sunday because of being an integrally suppressed, full auto SBR and because every single one is property of the Russian government. They aren't specifically banned.
A better comparison might be, say, an MTs-255, which is a gun I'd love to own. They have not been cleared for import so if you are somehow known to have one by the ATF you can consider yourself under investigation and probably under arrest. I don't think there's any way for an individual to import a firearm from outside of the country for personal use. The law is very anti-citizen in this regard.[/QUOTE]
Bad example, but you get my point.
A better example, I think, would be an SVD. They were allowed to be imported at one time, but were banned after a while. Getting one into the country, if it was built before the import ban you probably wouldn't get any trouble unless someone REALLY pursued it because you could just say "It was imported before the ban" but if it was built after, then it would be illegal.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50103715]It's cool that they do that but man that's kinda ugly[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but it was that or an SR40 in that color.
Gives me an excuse to buy a .22 can at least.
[QUOTE=butre;50103312]they're not banned from import, they're just full of NFA violations.
something like an MP-443, while non existent in the US, is not illegal and it wouldn't be hard to say "yeah I got it off some guy named jeff at a gun show a few years ago"[/QUOTE]
Actually they are.
America and the Russian Federation signed a trade restriction (Voluntary Restraint Agreement) disallowing Russia from exporting almost anything to the US that didn't serve a sporting purpose except for a small list of rifles/pistols deemed 'collectible'
This is the original documentation: [url]http://tcc.export.gov/Trade_Agreements/All_Trade_Agreements/exp_005371.asp[/url]
Key text:
"The Government of the Russian Federation shall not allow the exportation from the Russian Federation, destined to the United States, of the following firearms and ammunition:
(a) any firearm, including any new model firearm, except a firearm described in Annex A to this Agreement;"
[code]"ANNEX A
Firearms Permitted to Be Imported into the United States from the Russian Federation
Pistols/Revolvers
1. German Model P08 Pistol
2. IZH 34M, .22 caliber Target Pistol
3. IZH 3 5M, .22 caliber Target Pistol
4. Mauser Model 1896 Pistol
5. MC-57-1 Pistol
6. MC-1-5 Pistol
7. Polish Vis Model 35 Pistol
8. Soviet Nagant Revolver
9. TOZ 35,.22 caliber Target Pistol
Rifles
1. BARS-4 Bolt Action Carbine
2. Biathlon Target Rifle, .22LR caliber
3. British Enfield Rifle
4. CM2,.22 caliber Target Rifle (also known as SM2,.22 caliber)
5. German Model 98K Rifle
6. German Model G41 Rifle
7. German Model G43 Rifle
8. IZH-94
9. LOS-7 Bolt Action Rifle
10. MC-7-07
11. MC-18-3
12. MC-19-07
13. MC-105-01
14. MC-112-02
15. MC-113-02
16. MC-115-1
17. MC-125/127
18. MC-126
19. MC-128
20. Saiga Rifle
21. Soviet Model 38 Carbine
22. Soviet Model 44 Carbine
23. Soviet Model 91/30 Rifle
24. TOZ 18,.22 caliber Bolt Action Rifle
25. TOZ 55
26. TOZ 78
27. Ural Target Rifle, .22LR caliber
28. VEPR Rifle
29. Winchester Model 1895, Russian Model Rifle"[/code]
This agreement has since been amended to allow importation of newly manufactured firearms with a 'sporting purpose' but the original restrictions still apply, which is why Canada gets $300 SVT-40's and we don't get jack fucking shit.
[editline]10th April 2016[/editline]
Here is the amendment:
[url]https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/open-letter/all-ffls-may2004-open-letter-importation-articles-added-amendment-annex/download[/url]
Unfortunately the url at the end of it that details the firearms added to the exclusion doesn't work.
There are plenty of other former soviet nations that haven't signed that agreement that could be exporting them, so I'm doubtful that's the reason you can't get SVT-40s in the US. You could also export them through a third nation.
if it's not banned by name, it's not banned. any gun that could serve well in 3-gun has a sporting purpose, as 3-gun is a shooting sport. besides that, the whole sporting purpose idea is unconstitutional and therefore invalid.
there's currently a push to remove "sporting" from all firearms legislature, turning it into "lawful purposes"
I should be able to bring any firearm I want across the border for any legal reason, period. At most I should have to notify the ATF that I've done it.
[QUOTE=download;50103838]There are plenty of other former soviet nations that haven't signed that agreement that could be exporting them, so I'm doubtful that's the reason you can't get SVT-40s in the US. You could also export them through a third nation.[/QUOTE]
IIRC we have some obscure law that requires a firearm produced in Russia to be in another country a certain number of years before it can come here if it doesn't abide by the VRA
[editline]10th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=butre;50103869]if it's not banned by name, it's not banned. any gun that could serve well in 3-gun has a sporting purpose, as 3-gun is a shooting sport. besides that, the whole sporting purpose idea is unconstitutional and therefore invalid.
there's currently a push to remove "sporting" from all firearms legislature, turning it into "lawful purposes"[/QUOTE]
Considering this is our government we're talking about, if they don't want something coming to the country it's generally not going to fucking happen.
The document clearly states that all firearms not explicitly named in annex A are banned from importation and both countries are willing participants, so good luck getting anything not approved without a company backing it. It's not like we share an easily smuggled land border with Russia.
[editline]10th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50103906]I should be able to bring any firearm I want across the border for any legal reason, period. At most I should have to notify the ATF that I've done it.[/QUOTE]
I like this.
Just be like "Yo ATF I went to Canada and bought a gun because their prices are better k thanks"
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;50103928]
Considering this is our government we're talking about, if they don't want something coming to the country it's generally not going to fucking happen.
The document clearly states that all firearms not explicitly named in annex A are banned from importation and both countries are willing participants, so good luck getting anything not approved without a company backing it. It's not like we share an easily smuggled land border with Russia.[/QUOTE]
it's not far between russia and alaska
[QUOTE=butre;50104140]it's not far between russia and alaska[/QUOTE]
Okay Sarah Palin
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50103906]I should be able to bring any firearm I want across the border for any legal reason, period. At most I should have to notify the ATF that I've done it.[/QUOTE]
Nah man, you can only walk guns out of the country if you want the ATF to look the other way...
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;50105325]Okay Sarah Palin[/QUOTE]
she was explicitly referring to the diomedes with that comment. the two islands, one in us territory and one in Russian, are 2.5 miles apart. at sea level you can see 3 miles of open ocean
you can also see tips of Siberian mountains from mainland Alaska in good weather at sufficient elevation
So Wolf is producing lacquer coated and sealed ammo again, same cost as the Wolf Polyformance or Wolf Poly Coated Military Classic:
[url]http://www.sgammo.com/product/545x39-ammo/750-round-case-545x39-60-grain-fmj-mil-spec-ammo-lacquer-and-sealant-wolf-perfor[/url]
[img]http://1696252748.rsc.cdn77.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/new%20wolf%20545%20002_0.JPG[/img]
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