[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50165225]Just because a government agency uses something doesn't mean it's quality or worth the money. The US Military used M-14's for quite a while...
You could make a list a mile long of shit the government used that was complete garbage. Don't use that as a basis as to whether or not something is good. Police department loadouts change from state to state anyways, Oregon might be using Glocks in .357 sig with Colt AR's while Florida is using M&P's in 9mm with M&P AR's.[/QUOTE]
You best not be shit-talking the M14 you mouthbreather
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50169155]Nuclearannihilation has a PTR91, and from shooting it myself it's fucking awesome. The thing throws brass so far forward its like a secondary projectile.[/QUOTE]
What's the customizability on that weapon? Like, I'm pretty much acustomed to either my Winchester Model 70 or an AR-15, I'm not sure what the middle of the spectrum is like.
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;50169828]You best not be shit-talking the M14 you mouthbreather[/QUOTE]
Sorry that your favorite service rifle is fragile and useless. Call me when it's as good as a G3
[QUOTE=Revenge282;50169859]What's the customizability on that weapon? Like, I'm pretty much acustomed to either my Winchester Model 70 or an AR-15, I'm not sure what the middle of the spectrum is like.[/QUOTE]
There are some options, but all universally expensive; welcome to HK, because you suck and we hate you.
[QUOTE=Revenge282;50169031]I'm definitely going for performance of looks, or just the fact it's a "replica". If the higher price tag is what it takes for something that will perform, then I guess I'll eat it.
Does anyone have any experience with either?[/QUOTE]
I own a CA and I did have to put in quite a bit of money to make it come close to what I initially wanted in a G3 clone. My advice is to save up for the PTR and never look back.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50170051]Sorry that your favorite service rifle is fragile and useless. Call me when it's as good as a G3[/QUOTE]
Could you do us all a favor and pull that H&K barrel out of your ass?
[QUOTE=Revenge282;50169859]What's the customizability on that weapon? Like, I'm pretty much acustomed to either my Winchester Model 70 or an AR-15, I'm not sure what the middle of the spectrum is like.[/QUOTE]
First things first. Buy your rifle from Atlantic Arms. They sell the PTR91 rifles with a pic rail already welded on for no additional cost. The rail will be straight and if you have problems, Atlantic will make it right. They stand behind their sales whether it be an AK clone or an HK clone.
The rest can be bought off of HKparts.net or special order a Magpul stock. Everything will be a bit cash when it comes to setting up PSG1 clone. The Magpul stock will set you back $255. Buy a cheek piece for the standard stock if cost is a serious issue.
I was thinking about doing either a straight up [URL="http://www.ptr91.com/products/PTR%20MSG%2091%20SS?id=13"]PTR MSG91 SS[/URL], or doing a basic PTR MSG91 and getting a [URL="http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-G3-HK-91-20-Fluted-Match-Grade-Barrel-120p9037.htm"]barrel from HKParts.com[/URL] to have put on.
Frankly, I just want something in 7.62/.308, semi-auto, with above average accuracy out to about 300yds average. I do a lot of coyote and hog control around my area, and the wide open pastures don't often let me close in (and I hate climbing up and down from my platform). Follow up shots are a necessity (either to finish off or switch targets) and semi-auto solves that.
PTR91/G3 was just a platform I've always wanted, but if anyone has any other ideas to fill that role, then I am all ears.
[editline]20th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lone_Star94;50170374]First things first. Buy your rifle from Atlantic Arms. They sell the PTR91 rifles with a pic rail already welded on for no additional cost. The rail will be straight and if you have problems, Atlantic will make it right. They stand behind their sales whether it be an AK clone or an HK clone.
The rest can be bought off of HKparts.net or special order a Magpul stock. Everything will be a bit cash when it comes to setting up PSG1 clone. The Magpul stock will set you back $255. Buy a cheek piece for the standard stock if cost is a serious issue.[/QUOTE]
The price isn't [I]really[/I] an issue. I am just seeing if I can produce the same results for less. Atlantic also doesn't carry the 20", which I am fond of, and I'm not sure on what the process is for swapping a barrel on this weapon.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50170051]Sorry that your favorite service rifle is fragile and useless. Call me when it's as good as a G3[/QUOTE]
when your g3's bolt breaks don't come crying to me
[editline]20th April 2016[/editline]
not to mention the carnage that cetme platform guns inflict on spent brass
[QUOTE=Revenge282;50170421]
Frankly, I just want something in 7.62/.308, semi-auto, with above average accuracy out to about 300yds average. I do a lot of coyote and hog control around my area, and the wide open pastures don't often let me close in (and I hate climbing up and down from my platform). Follow up shots are a necessity (either to finish off or switch targets) and semi-auto solves that.
PTR91/G3 was just a platform I've always wanted, but if anyone has any other ideas to fill that role, then I am all ears.[/QUOTE]
AR10 platform or SCAR 17S if you have the money.
If you can stomach the $60 magazines FN FNAR rifles are fantastic for what you want. Standard one will run you about $1000-$1200 and a heavy barrel upwards of $1400.
I loved mine but I just didn't want to pay that much for a magazine. If price isn't an issue for you the gun is well worth it.
Customization options are a bit slim tho. If you want something you can deck out go with a nicer AR10.
[QUOTE=camaroni;50170865]AR10 platform or SCAR 17S if you have the money.[/QUOTE]
I would say jump on the AR10 platform in a heartbeat but then again I am biased.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;50170856]since when did g3 bolt just break?[/QUOTE]
early models had a quality control issue and a handful of them left the factory with crap bolts. it's not a regular thing, I'm just illustrating that no gun is without it's problems.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50170051]Sorry that your favorite service rifle is fragile and useless. Call me when it's as good as a G3[/QUOTE]
Next you'll be telling us the Garand is crap.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;50171159]You DON'T swap barrels really. It's a pain in the ass, as you'd have to remove the triple tree, remove the barrel pin, then press the barrel out (without damaging the receiver), then install the new barrel, drill it for a pin (after you headspace it), press on the triple tree (make sure it's straight or your sights are fucked), and finally install the muzzle device of your choosing.
By the way if you fuck up headspacing you'll probably have to replace the rollers to make the headspace correct. Headspacing a G3 isn't a simple process either, it involves measuring the gap between the bolt and the bolt carrier, with feeler gauges.[/QUOTE]
I'd just say fuck it and pay a good gunsmith.
[QUOTE=Revenge282;50170421]
Frankly, I just want something in 7.62/.308, semi-auto, with above average accuracy out to about 300yds average. I do a lot of coyote and hog control around my area, and the wide open pastures don't often let me close in (and I hate climbing up and down from my platform). Follow up shots are a necessity (either to finish off or switch targets) and semi-auto solves that.
PTR91/G3 was just a platform I've always wanted, but if anyone has any other ideas to fill that role, then I am all ears.
[/QUOTE]
Rethink what you are doing. The HK precision guns are not that forgiving. You are better off getting a SCAR, AR10 or even Vepr. All of those will do the job. The DMR HK91 and it's clones are not exactly a good first time 7.62x51 weapon.
What's wrong with a bolt action or the other options other than just cool factor.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;50171257]I'd do an AR-10 honestly. But if you're insistent on an HK rifle, just realize that they aren't the best in terms of customizability, or "user friendliness". Especially since you're not going to be able to reload the brass, making shooting 7.62 even MORE expensive than it already is.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. It's hard on brass, maybe temperamental with ammo due to the match grade chamber and hard to get accessories to for it.
If I was getting a PTR91, it would be the GI version. Less than a grand it feeds the itch. My real choice if money was tighter would be something like a T/C Vanguard or a Ruger Scout with a bit extra cash. In terms of a semiauto, AR10 or a SCAR if money were no object.
[QUOTE=Lone_Star94;50171196]Rethink what you are doing. The HK precision guns are not that forgiving. You are better off getting a SCAR, AR10 or even Vepr. All of those will do the job. The DMR HK91 and it's clones are not exactly a good first time 7.62x51 weapon.
What's wrong with a bolt action or the other options other than just cool factor.[/QUOTE]
Just to clarify off the bat, it is definitely not my first weapon of a 7.62/.308. I have a good friend of mine who lets me have free reign over his safe, and he has a semi-auto and a couple bolt actions in 7.62. I really enjoy the round, but for what I am doing, I don't want to have to rely on his guns. Especially if something happens.
I'm not really going into it for "cool factor", that was just my preference for the HK91 stuff. I need semi-auto, and I need the precision. Semi is pretty much make or brake because with the nuisance control that I do, I can get multiple hits off before they scatter, considering they travel around in pretty tight groups. Bolt action just isn't going to cut it. (Tried with my .270 Model 70, it's almost impossible to reacquire after cycling from that distance while they move.)
[del]SCAR has always been something I've liked, and my friend who owns a couple loves them. I've never had the chance to fire one.[/del] (Saw the $~4k price tag... [I]That[/I] is a bit out of range.)
FNAR is new, I haven't really looked into those much.
Vepr, I am just really not a fan of most things Russian. Mainly the aesthetics, frankly. But things like my buddy's AKs and SKS never really felt good with me.
AR10, I own an AR-15, I like the AR-10. But if I can avoid it to add diversity to what I own, great.
Honestly, customization isn't really necessary. I don't need a tacticool show piece. I just need to have a rail for sights, a bipod, and threaded barrel. (Magpul PRS butt is a bonus)
[editline]20th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;50171257]I'd do an AR-10 honestly. But if you're insistent on an HK rifle, just realize that they aren't the best in terms of customizability, or "user friendliness". Especially since you're not going to be able to reload the brass, making shooting 7.62 even MORE expensive than it already is.[/QUOTE]
Definitely won't be reloading. If the rifle will shoot reliably, then I'll learn it. But like I said, I'm already familiar with the 7.62.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;50171388]I meant in terms of user repair. Unless you know a decent amount about the platform, you're probably not going to fix an HK rifle.[/QUOTE]
Well, luckily I know the owner of the big gun shop in town and he'll do pretty much any work on the gun at-cost. I trust him to do whatever needs doing.
So I guess I'm split between PTR MSG91 SS or FNAR Heavy. I [I]feel[/I] like for the cost, the PTR with all it's bells and whistles included would outdo the FNAR with the same money into it.
The price of those two is pretty acceptable. Really just want to avoid an AR-10 if I can, unless it just drives that hard of a bargain.
[I]I appreciate the help from everyone. I apologize if this is getting too lengthy...[/I]
On the G3 style guns the receiver is fluted and ance the round goes off, the casing expands around the fluting, leaving horizontal ridges all along the brass.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;50174142]the receiver isn't fluted, the chamber walls are.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, mixed up my words
The point is that the G3 flash-forms brass against the fluting [I]and[/I] the ejector crushes it, it's a one-two "please don't reload me" punch.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/NXpQDo2.jpg[/t][t]http://i.imgur.com/oPoixUh.jpg[/t][t]http://i.imgur.com/0rvw5CB.jpg[/t][t]http://i.imgur.com/s3BbPTN.jpg[/t]
Yes, you can stop it from being crushed, but you can't stop it from being flash-formed and that alone makes it inadvisable to reload. And that's assuming you can even find the brass after it's completed a few passes in low earth orbit. The G3 just has a violent action.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;50174401]you can usually reload ammo shot in a g3/hk41/hk91 and civilian ones (sl7, sl8, hk770) many times. i know people who have done it up to 10+ times with quality brass (read: thick walled lapua and norma cases, not cheap thing shit like ppu or cheap american brands).
the biggest problem is the denting which can be avoided by having it in-spec what regards roller size, and putting on a case deflector/cushioner.
what the ptr91s do i dunno, those always bugged me with their shitty gloss paint, weird lower receivers with that big bulge, no mag lever until just now, and their barrel that are so far away from being similar to the original ones as possible[/QUOTE]
So in other words, you can maybe reload if you put even more money into your already overpriced German gun.
I like G3s... they just aren't the finely tuned "German engineering!!!" marvels they're made out to be. They're violent, imprecise (mechanically, not that they're inaccurate guns), and heavy-handedly correct for imperfections in the action instead of just running smoothly by design.
Now the FAL - there's a perfect battle rifle.
I edited my post to clarify - they're very accurate guns, but mechanically imprecise, which is why the extractor crushes cases like they're made of foil then pitches them to the next country over instead of removing them cleanly. Kind of the gun equivalent of a lumpy V8.
(I was joking about the FAL being perfect, I'm just a FNboy)
Yet it needs to be corrected with additional engineering to prevent the crushing, so from the factory, it is an imprecise design. I'm not saying it's [I]bad[/I] - the G3 definitely does its job - it's just not exactly clockwork.
The weight and sturdy construction of a FAL means that when you run out of ammo, you can beat the commies to death with it like a bat.
I'm fairly sure my dad has said exactly that to me before, he carried a C1A1 for about a decade in the army.
I have semi automatics much older than any G3 that haven't worn themselves out enough to begin pulling the shit G3s pull when they get to be 10 or 20. It's an inefficient design with a lot of little moving parts that can wear out and cause funky shit like: case destruction. Yes, it will shoot fine and run fine with those parts beginning to wear out. I'd rather have a G3 than many weapons on the market today.
I'm not bagging on the G3, I'm [I]just saying[/I] that it's not a paragon of German engineering. It does its job, it excels at doing gun stuff, it just does so in a roundabout and inefficient manner. The platform was born from bandaid fix after bandaid fix that eventually came full circle and began working fine.
My SVT has handled shit that would probably break some newer semi-autos. I tend to have at least 1 split case a relay out of my SVT, and it's always the neck, but there's never any backblast. That's what I get for using Chinese surplus, but there's some guns out there nowadays that'd paint my face black if that happened. Not to mention the gunk that gets in it. Granted, that gunk does lead to the last-shot hold-open not always working, and to it being very sticky and not always disengaging.
So when you talk about shit wearing out after 10-20 years, this thing's 74 and still going strong. It's no wonder the Germans copied it for the K43, and I think they took some inspiration for the G3 from it too, since the SVT was the first semi to have a fluted chamber (AFAIK).
The SVT is the same story - inefficient, but it works fine. Hail it as a great gun, because it's earned that title. Just don't call it an engineering marvel. :v:
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