Boiling Shellfish, Crabs, Lobsters and other sea creatures alive: should it be banned? - General

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;32786701]They dumbest human in existence would outsmart the smartest lobster any day any time. No contest. They are much much dumber than us. And I personally value species based on their intelligence and their looks, i.e torturing a lobster is not as bad as torturing a cat, dog, or a human. But that's just me.[/QUOTE] A lobster would definitely outsmart a brain dead vegetable. [quote]torturing a lobster is not as bad as torturing a cat, dog, or a human.[/quote] No one ever implied that it was?

[QUOTE=OvB;32786773]No one ever implied that it was?[/QUOTE] I'm just stating my opinion on this matter.

Thing is, this is probably the most efficient humane way. Any other way would be too much of a waste of time and expensive and not save any more pain. Only way to stop it would be to stop eating them, but lobsters are delicious.

There is a reason for doing so. It has something to do with its digestive enzymes starting to decompose the organs when it's dead, ruining the meat. You avoid this by boiling it alive.

they're crustaceans, not animals. so no, it should never even be considered to be banned.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0z74CNxjtM[/media]

As long as the lobsters or whatever get an instant death, or are knocked out due to cold beforehand, I'd say there's nothing wrong. About 5 months back, I saw firsthand that the lobsters in the specific restaurant I went to were dropped in water so quick and so hot that it was really instant. I was able to eat it in peace.

[QUOTE=General J;32787334]they're crustaceans, not animals. so no, it should never even be considered to be banned.[/QUOTE] Crustaceans are animals.

This is a silly debate, OP is basically debating on stopping something that doesn't happen in the first place. Research needs to be done next time.

[QUOTE=Badballer;32787515]This is a silly debate, OP is basically debating on stopping something that doesn't happen in the first place. Research needs to be done next time.[/QUOTE] Doesn't happen in the first place? Elaborate, please.

I'm pretty sure that if the animal in question cannot be tamed and is going to be used for eating, it cannot be animal abuse.

If you look at the history of torture and execution, one way was to kill people by boiling them. It was considered less horrible if the person was chucked straight into the already boiling water/oil. A bunch of processes shuts down very very fast and you'll be too disoriented to feel pain until you eventually pass out. Boiling water shuts down from oxygen intake because the hot steam will cramp up muscles and ruin the lungs so you brain won't be given the conscious awareness it needs to feel pain. I'd imagine that with a lobster being of a considerably smaller size the process of dying would be way faster. If you chuck a lobster into cold water and then slowly heat it up to boiling point then you are being incredibly cruel because the animal will be exposed to pain and burns for a longer time before it passes out and eventually dies. I know someone whose ex girlfriend did that because she thought that chucking them into boiling water was crueler. She cried when she was told she had basically been torturing the animal for several minutes. I hope above poster is trolling, holy shit that is dumb.

Boiling in some aspects is probably one of the most humane ways to kill/cook shellfish species. As others have said before, you could knock them out using a freezer, and they don't feel pain considering once tossed into boiling water it's instant shut down of systems. As for people stating that crawdads and such are retarded... I don't know what you've been smoking. I've done sports fishing, for most of my life and the one thing I've learned is to respect crawdads. A lot of their hunting in riverbeds comprises of watching fish, and then waiting for the pattern of fish to re-enter the area, and grab one from under a flat rock. They are without a doubt a very intelligent species.

[QUOTE=Kagrs;32792297]If you look at the history of torture and execution, one way was to kill people by boiling them. It was considered less horrible if the person was chucked straight into the already boiling water/oil. A bunch of processes shuts down very very fast and you'll be too disoriented to feel pain until you eventually pass out. Boiling water shuts down from oxygen intake because the hot steam will cramp up muscles and ruin the lungs so you brain won't be given the conscious awareness it needs to feel pain. I'd imagine that with a lobster being of a considerably smaller size the process of dying would be way faster. If you chuck a lobster into cold water and then slowly heat it up to boiling point then you are being incredibly cruel because the animal will be exposed to pain and burns for a longer time before it passes out and eventually dies. I know someone whose ex girlfriend did that because she thought that chucking them into boiling water was crueler. She cried when she was told she had basically been torturing the animal for several minutes. I hope above poster is trolling, holy shit that is dumb.[/QUOTE] You can do it to a frog, it wont even try and hop out it will just die if you raise the temprature slowly. So it could be the same with a lobster

[QUOTE=General J;32787334]they're crustaceans, not animals. so no, it should never even be considered to be banned.[/QUOTE] what the hell does that mean [quote]an·i·mal [I]noun[/I] any member of the kingdom Animalia, comprising multicellular organisms that have a well-defined shape and usually limited growth, can move voluntarily, actively acquire food and digest it internally, and have sensory and nervous systems that allow them to respond rapidly to stimuli: some classification schemes also include protozoa and certain other single-celled eukaryotes that have motility and animallike nutritional modes.[/quote] [quote]crus·ta·cean [I]noun[/I] any chiefly aquatic arthropod of the class Crustacea, typically having the body covered with a hard shell or crust, including the lobsters, shrimps, crabs, barnacles, and wood lice.[/quote]

Crustacea are in the Kingdom Animalia. So they're animals. Crustaceans is a category.

[QUOTE=Hoboharry;32792167]Doesn't happen in the first place? Elaborate, please.[/QUOTE]I mean they aren't inhumanely killed (just following what everyone else has said), which is the whole debate.

[QUOTE=Stormcharger;32792641]You can do it to a frog, it wont even try and hop out it will just die if you raise the temprature slowly. So it could be the same with a lobster[/QUOTE] Actually, that has been partially disproved. A frog does jump out if the water is not heated in a very very slow manner (which your stove is most likely not capable of) and the myth is simply a usage of a metaphor of how people don't react to significant changes that happen gradually.

[QUOTE=Badballer;32792953]I mean they aren't inhumanely killed (just following what everyone else has said), which is the whole debate.[/QUOTE] I thought they were, and i thank everyone in this thread for informing me that boiling live sea creatures is humane.

I don't really approve of it. Can't people just PROPERLY insta-kill it beforehand?

[QUOTE=geogzm;32793147]I don't really approve of it. Can't people just PROPERLY insta-kill it beforehand?[/QUOTE] Reading around there seems to be three methods. You can kill it by cutting it right behind the eyes with a sharp knife. Freezing it down as many have mentioned, is also a humane method. If it's placed in the boiling water head-first it will die instantly too, which will also mean you avoid having a rather chewy dinner. [URL="http://homecooking.about.com/od/seafood/a/lobsterkill.htm"]Source.[/URL]

Adrenalin gets released when they get boiled witch makes the meat worse anyway so I dont see why its nescisary.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;32792374]Boiling in some aspects is probably one of the most humane ways to kill/cook shellfish species. As others have said before, you could knock them out using a freezer, and they don't feel pain considering once tossed into boiling water it's instant shut down of systems. As for people stating that crawdads and such are retarded... I don't know what you've been smoking. I've done sports fishing, for most of my life and the one thing I've learned is to respect crawdads. A lot of their hunting in riverbeds comprises of watching fish, and then waiting for the pattern of fish to re-enter the area, and grab one from under a flat rock. They are without a doubt a very intelligent species.[/QUOTE] I've had crayfish in tanks with fish. They would climb to the top of a plant or something else that get's them high up. Then they would sit there and wait with their claws open and spread apart, just sitting still as can be. A few times they'd get lucky and snatch a curious guppy with lightning fast reflexes. They then walk backward until they're in their cave/house, or somewhere relatively safe, then proceed to eat it's organs out while it's still alive. Damn nature, you scary. I can't really stop them from doing this. When you have two thing's in a tank that can form a predator prey relationship, even if you feed them a lot they may still want to hunt occasionally.

I'm alright with them being chucked in, it's probably better than whatever would happen to them in the ocean. It's kinda like try to get a lion to kill its prey humanely. I'm just not sure how you could be opposed to it when way worse happens in nature.

[QUOTE=OvB;32797670]I've had crayfish in tanks with fish. They would climb to the top of a plant or something else that get's them high up. Then they would sit there and wait with their claws open and spread apart, just sitting still as can be. A few times they'd get lucky and snatch a curious guppy with lightning fast reflexes. They then walk backward until they're in their cave/house, or somewhere relatively safe, [b]then proceed to eat it's organs out while it's still alive.[/b] Damn nature, you scary. I can't really stop them from doing this. When you have two thing's in a tank that can form a predator prey relationship, even if you feed them a lot they may still want to hunt occasionally.[/QUOTE] That's disgusting.

[QUOTE=OvB;32786105]They do not possess lungs or vocal chords and therefore cannot scream.[/QUOTE]the sound is merely gas escaping from their bodies, correct? something like that, anyhow. anyway i'm pretty sure dropping them into boiling water while still alive is the safest way to do it, i remember some fisherman telling me that if you kill them first, even if by a second, there's just enough of a window to get sick, especially if you leave them with a wound in their abdomen (ie by smashing them first). could've been bs but still something to consider. [editline]15th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Hoboharry;32798357]That's disgusting.[/QUOTE]that's nature. and really the ocean can be far more unforgiving than land. which is why the ocean's so bad ass [editline]15th October 2011[/editline] there are many jellyfish that entrap smaller fish and basically dissolve them within themselves while still alive. like from some cheap 70s horror movie or something. [editline]15th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=General J;32787334]they're crustaceans, not animals. so no, it should never even be considered to be banned.[/QUOTe] eh what. are you saying crustaceans are robots? because even plants are sometimes considered animals. are you mistakenly replacing the word mammal with animal? which even then it wouldn't make any sense for you to be kingdom animalia-ist (???)

[QUOTE=Awegner;32793613]Adrenalin gets released when they get boiled witch makes the meat worse anyway so I dont see why its nescisary.[/QUOTE] Yeah I forgot that adrenalin has a taste. You're joking, right?

[QUOTE=Valdor;32798533]Yeah I forgot that adrenalin has a taste. You're joking, right?[/QUOTE] I hope he is, although adrenaline does toughen meat up a bit if I remember correctly, which is the whole purpose behind that special Japanese method for beef - kobe beef, I think it is?

hard to tell whether or not adrenaline will actually effect the taste of the meat, which is irrelevant as it is since that's the whole point of marinating to begin with. most meats cooked without a marinate taste fairly bland. not so with shellfish but i'm curious whether or not shellfish even have adrenaline, per se. perhaps an equivalent but they're basically big aquatic insects so i doubt it's exactly adrenaline.

[QUOTE=M_B;32798423]the sound is merely gas escaping from their bodies, correct? something like that, anyhow. anyway i'm pretty sure dropping them into boiling water while still alive is the safest way to do it, i remember some fisherman telling me that if you kill them first, even if by a second, there's just enough of a window to get sick, especially if you leave them with a wound in their abdomen (ie by smashing them first). could've been bs but still something to consider. [editline]15th October 2011[/editline] that's nature. and really the ocean can be far more unforgiving than land. which is why the ocean's so bad ass [editline]15th October 2011[/editline] there are many jellyfish that entrap smaller fish and basically dissolve them within themselves while still alive. like from some cheap 70s horror movie or something. [editline]15th October 2011[/editline] eh what. are you saying crustaceans are robots? because even plants are sometimes considered animals. are you mistakenly replacing the word mammal with animal? which even then it wouldn't make any sense for you to be kingdom animalia-ist (???)[/QUOTE] uh no plants are considered animals, plants are in the kingdom plantae and dropping them into boiling water is totally humane, the ~most humane~ way is to stab between their eyes, though. There's far worse things happening to animals than being dropped into boiling water, it should be the least of your concern.