[QUOTE=BFG9000;39557032]Granted the story MIGHT have been exxagerated to me; what I do know is that everyone else at the range at the time were having their bullets fall short of the targets, or required lots of compensation while he required virtually none[/QUOTE]
He could just be a good shot
Or, being as it was at a range, probably shot a target between 200 and 600 yards away, which has a perfectly doable Dope, especially from a .50 BMG with a good optic. That I can see. 1,700 yards, though, no.
[QUOTE=mastoner20;39557076]Or, being as it was at a range, probably shot a target between 200 and 600 yards away, which has a perfectly doable Dope, especially from a .50 BMG with a good optic. That I can see. 1,700 yards, though, no.[/QUOTE]
But do .308s and the like generally start dropping at those ranges? I wouldnt know because I've never gone to a sniper range
[QUOTE=BFG9000;39557189]But do .308s and the like generally start dropping at those ranges? I wouldnt know because I've never gone to a sniper range[/QUOTE]
Bullets start dropping the moment they leave the barrel
[QUOTE=download;39557205]Bullets start dropping the moment they leave the barrel[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. .45-70 is like a rainbow. I know some other rounds tend to go up as well.
[QUOTE=cardfan212;39557269]Not necessarily. .45-70 is like a rainbow. I know some other rounds tend to go up as well.[/QUOTE]
As soon as it leaves the barrel it's accelerating downwards at 9.8ms^-2, nothing you can do to change that on a ballistic trajectory
My .220 swift shoots the second fastest bullet around, and it only shoots "flat" (point of aim) out to 400 yards.
[QUOTE=cardfan212;39557269]Not necessarily. .45-70 is like a rainbow. I know some other rounds tend to go up as well.[/QUOTE]
Impossible. What you are experiencing is the sights are angled downwards a bit. As such, you are pointing the barrel upwards, like an artillery piece.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;39557189]But do .308s and the like generally start dropping at those ranges? I wouldnt know because I've never gone to a sniper range[/QUOTE]
All bullets (projectiles, particles, atoms, dust bunnies, whatever) feel a gravitational pull towards the Earth's core as soon as they leave the muzzle of a firearm. Depending on the different type of round being fired, types of optics associated with the weapon system, and burn rate of the powder, some bullets will experience minor rise in trajectory before falling back like a normal parabola (slightly reduced in size, however, due to air resistance). For me, I sight my .308 and .30-06 both in at 75 yards, because this slightly below the arc I was bringing up at first due to the 4-9x12 scope I have mounted to each. Sighting at 75 gives me roughly the same 'dope' or 'zero' as shooting the same target at (I believe, I might be wrong; I personally don't use either firearm for longer range shots often) 150 yards. So a .308 is perfectly capable of 200 to 600 yard shots, but will drop faster than a .50 BMG, because the initial velocity is far lower.
That's the reason why the military is investing currently in .308 (7.62x51 NATO) calibre DMR (Designated Marksman Rifles) for the troops in Afghanistan such as the Scar Heavy, M14 variants, et cet. is to accurately reach targets between 600 and 800 yards more effectively.
For more info; see both [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_mil[/url]
as well as, [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinematics[/url] for a more physical approach (keep in mind, the latter is a branch of classical mechanics, physics, and mathematics that may be difficult to grasp if you've not had a physics course before).
From what I've both seen and heard, some rounds climb about an inch before they begin dropping.
[QUOTE=Inplabth;39557375]Unless the barrel is angled up, they won't climb at all, because the only force acting in the up/down direction is gravity, which is down.[/QUOTE]
I hate complicating things, but this isn't 100% accurate. Because the projectile in a rifled barrel is spinning as it leaves the bore, as well as is moving at such a high rate of speed with a right-hand twist, one must take several more factors into account. The bullet experiences centripetal force (not really an x or y force, but in the motion the lump mass is already traveling), as well as taking into account the Magnus Affect, which relates the speed, rate of twisting, and the path of air resistance and pressure around the bullet before the projectile reaches equilibrium. This process takes, on average, about 100 yards to achieve; but during which time, the bullet does experience a slight Net Force in the Positive Y direction (Against gravity), and forces the bullet to rise.
Also, a source so you know I'm not blowing hot air up your ass, and that I do understand the basics behind what I'm saying;
[url]http://www2.hawaii.edu/~spiek/node3.html[/url]
Also, for those who don't know already, keep in mind I'm currently a Physics and Mathematics Undergrad, so these types of questions I'm good at answering if anyone has any. :)
[QUOTE=download;39557205]Bullets start dropping the moment they leave the barrel[/QUOTE]
not true actually, depending on how the gun is sighted it often rises for several meters before dropping
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;39557506]not true actually, depending on how the gun is sighted it often rises for several meters before dropping[/QUOTE]
It undergoes an acceleration towards the ground the moment it leaves the barrel
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;39557662]Began the process of drilling the receiver of the mosin to mount the scope. Turns out the metal is very hard to drill through, and all i have to show for it is a small dent where i've been drilling for an hour.[/QUOTE]
You'll need to invest in a decent set of bits
So I finally got up to cabellas today (60 mile drive and they closed the interstate because white-out yesterday) and bought me a Mosin. I was pleasantly surprised to find one with a hex receiver (older and rarer) stamped 1927, which I promptly snatched up.
[IMG]http://i.imgbox.com/achPaz9c.jpg[/IMG]
The old guy selling me it was cool as hell, he kindly informed me of a corperate fuckup where there was a brochure out advertising it at $109 even though they recalled all the brochures they could and kept it marked at $150, so he gave it to me for the discounted price. For the original price of the gun, I was able to get 2 boxes of shells and a can of rem oil as well. My dad wanted to go to cabellas to search for 9mm and 22 ammo, so he came along and when he saw how cheap it was, he bought one too.
[IMG]http://i.imgbox.com/acpJGRbR.jpg[/IMG]
Im gonna clean them both out tomorrow.
Also there were 6 Nagant revolvers there for $150 each. If I was 21 I would have bought one of them, too.
[QUOTE=download;39557651]It undergoes an acceleration towards the ground the moment it leaves the barrel[/QUOTE]
not necessarily, shot scatters, some of it upwards
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;39557662]Began the process of drilling the receiver of the mosin to mount the scope. Turns out the metal is very hard to drill through, and all i have to show for it is a small dent where i've been drilling for an hour.[/QUOTE]
If you drive out the pins on the rear ironsight, there is a teeny tiny 11mm dovetail under it, Im pretty sure there are 11mm to something else adapters out there, although you would need to get a pistol scope as there is no way possible to get your face that close to it while firing.
[QUOTE=Birdman101;39557748]If you drive out the pins on the rear ironsight, there is a teeny tiny 11mm dovetail under it, Im pretty sure there are 11mm to something else adapters out there, although you would need to get a pistol scope as there is no way possible to get your face that close to it while firing.[/QUOTE]
yeah but I think he got a pu
[QUOTE=Birdman101;39557725]nug[/QUOTE]
nice man, i gotta get into the mosin collecting business
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;39557745]not necessarily, shot scatters, some of it upwards[/QUOTE]
While undergoing acceleration downwards. I'd suggest reading up on your physics
[QUOTE=download;39557863]While undergoing acceleration downwards. I'd suggest reading up on your physics[/QUOTE]
Everything is accelerating down by your logic. You're digging too deep into the one point and ignoring the centripetal force countering gravity.
A quick google resolves this parabolic flight pattern issue. These first examples regard a completely horizontal firing position. After the TL;DR, I explain another situation that is stupidly obvious to most people but I figured I'd mention it for download's sake.
You see, as a bullet leaves the gun (external ballistics take affect at this point), it makes an apparent rise [I]relative to the sight plane[/I]. Not a rise relative to actual elevation, but to the actual sight you look through. It rises slightly above the slight plane, and then dips again. Essentially, if you kept your eye through the sights and somehow slowed down time enough, or recorded it with a camera, you'd see the bullet apparently rise from the line of sight and then arc downward.
Physics itself explains that gravity works against the projectile as soon as it leaves the barrel, so it does not rise relative to where you're physically standing.
HOWEVER, it is important to recognize that it rises relative to the sight plane because where you're looking might be affected when you zero the sights, because of the parabolic nature of the effect. You could still shoot high because of it, regardless of the effect gravity has. You won't suspect the projectile to rise, but it does for a distance (again, relative to the sight plane).
TL;DR Sighting relative to the sight is completely different to the effect gravity has on relative to gravity, and so the parabolic trajectory is correct in the former circumstance. And since you don't shoot relative to local elevation (p. much impossible to shoot accurately if you move at all), it matters.
Oh also if you aim even remotely up, the projectile will travel upwards relative to elevation because, while gravity does cause the projectile to decelerate until it reaches a downward path, the acceleration of a speeding bullet more than overcomes it for a few seconds.
So yeah, it's not quite as cut and dry as "bullet falls as soon as it leaves the barrel"
So why the dick is it that Cabelas in the States can get mini-nuggets, but Cabelas up here can't?
[QUOTE=Mr. Bleak;39557883]A quick google resolves this parabolic flight pattern issue. These first examples regard a completely horizontal firing position. After the TL;DR, I explain another situation that is stupidly obvious to most people but I figured I'd mention it for download's sake.
You see, as a bullet leaves the gun (external ballistics take affect at this point), it makes an apparent rise [I]relative to the sight plane[/I]. Not a rise relative to actual elevation, but to the actual sight you look through. It rises slightly above the slight plane, and then dips again. Essentially, if you kept your eye through the sights and somehow slowed down time enough, or recorded it with a camera, you'd see the bullet apparently rise from the line of sight and then arc downward.
Physics itself explains that gravity works against the projectile as soon as it leaves the barrel, so it does not rise relative to where you're physically standing.
HOWEVER, it is important to recognize that it rises relative to the sight plane because where you're looking might be affected when you zero the sights, because of the parabolic nature of the effect. You could still shoot high because of it, regardless of the effect gravity has. You won't suspect the projectile to rise, but it does for a distance (again, relative to the sight plane).
TL;DR Sighting relative to the sight is completely different to the effect gravity has on relative to gravity, and so the parabolic trajectory is correct in the former circumstance. And since you don't shoot relative to local elevation (p. much impossible to shoot accurately if you move at all), it matters.
Oh also if you aim even remotely up, the projectile will travel upwards relative to elevation because, while gravity does cause the projectile to decelerate until it reaches a downward path, the acceleration of a speeding bullet more than overcomes it for a few seconds.
So yeah, it's not quite as cut and dry as "bullet falls as soon as it leaves the barrel"[/QUOTE]
No shit Sherlock.
You're twisting the circumstances to make it sound like you were more correct. If we're going by in relation to the angle of the barrel I was right
[QUOTE=Birdman101;39557725]
[IMG]http://i.imgbox.com/acpJGRbR.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
Very nice, The finish on the top one is really kick ass.
But I gotta ask, whats the pop tart for?
[QUOTE=download;39557984]No shit Sherlock.
You're twisting the circumstances to make it sound like you were more correct. If we're going by in relation to the angle of the barrel I was right[/QUOTE]
Well, simply stating "As soon as it leaves the barrel it goes down" isn't very specific. I mean, maybe if you would've explained what you meant (relative to the elevation of the barrel) instead of what the majority of people would assume (relative to how people actually aim and shoot the gun), you wouldn't have been misunderstood.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;39558016]Very nice, The finish on the top one is really kick ass.
But I gotta ask, whats the pop tart for?[/QUOTE]
A snack.
I'm trying to not get my cosmoline-covered fingers all over it.
[editline]11th February 2013[/editline]
You guys prob. already knew this but the guy at cabellas told me that New York classifies anything with even the option of having a bayonette as an "ASSALT WEPIN!!1!".
My hundred dollar 86-year-old bolt action rifle is an assault rifle. hahah, have fun with that NY.
[QUOTE=Mr. Bleak;39557883]A quick google resolves this parabolic flight pattern issue. These first examples regard a completely horizontal firing position. After the TL;DR, I explain another situation that is stupidly obvious to most people but I figured I'd mention it for download's sake.
You see, as a bullet leaves the gun (external ballistics take affect at this point), it makes an apparent rise [I]relative to the sight plane[/I]. Not a rise relative to actual elevation, but to the actual sight you look through. It rises slightly above the slight plane, and then dips again. Essentially, if you kept your eye through the sights and somehow slowed down time enough, or recorded it with a camera, you'd see the bullet apparently rise from the line of sight and then arc downward.
Physics itself explains that gravity works against the projectile as soon as it leaves the barrel, so it does not rise relative to where you're physically standing.
HOWEVER, it is important to recognize that it rises relative to the sight plane because where you're looking might be affected when you zero the sights, because of the parabolic nature of the effect. You could still shoot high because of it, regardless of the effect gravity has. You won't suspect the projectile to rise, but it does for a distance (again, relative to the sight plane).
TL;DR Sighting relative to the sight is completely different to the effect gravity has on relative to gravity, and so the parabolic trajectory is correct in the former circumstance. And since you don't shoot relative to local elevation (p. much impossible to shoot accurately if you move at all), it matters.
Oh also if you aim even remotely up, the projectile will travel upwards relative to elevation because, while gravity does cause the projectile to decelerate until it reaches a downward path, the acceleration of a speeding bullet more than overcomes it for a few seconds.
So yeah, it's not quite as cut and dry as "bullet falls as soon as it leaves the barrel"[/QUOTE]
you are dumb
the sights were probably just adjusted for drop (and windage too)
[QUOTE=raccoon2112;39558571]you are dumb
the sights were probably just adjusted for drop (and windage too)[/QUOTE]
I wasn't even referring to the specific example about that rifle, just sight elevation and bullet drop in general.
Sorry for trying to be informative, I guess it's obvious that to everyone that parabolic trajectory is due to sight elevation.
[QUOTE=download;39557205]Bullets start dropping the moment they leave the barrel[/QUOTE]
NO SHIT
I'm clearly asking when it becomes significant
[editline]11th February 2013[/editline]
Also, thanks for the breakdowns, mastoner
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