[QUOTE=RR_Raptor65;39679675]Been working on that Biden Super Mega Express Double Barrel Semi-Automatic 12 Gauge Shotgun with Detachable magazine.
Had a nearly complete mechanism using an interia-based system when I realized firing one barrel would cycle both actions regardless. :v:
Here's the fancy barrel though:
[img_thumb]http://puu.sh/26H01[/img_thumb]
Think I'm gonna have to settle on gas operated unless I can come up with a locking mechanism to lock one of the inertia bolts until actually fired or manually operated.
Apparently shotgun barrel blanks are REALLY cheap too, $23 on Numrich.[/QUOTE]
Rather than having both barrels connected with a rigid structure, what about a semi-rigid or nonrigid structure? That way, if the barrels are connected by stiff springs or something, if you're looking to use inertia from one side to cycle one action, it won't cycle the other because no force would be applied to the other side, the springs or whatever would stretch, ensuring all rearward force is on one side. This essentially amounts to hooking up 2 single-barrel shotguns to each other with a spring, each one operating independently of the other. There may be some way to have a unified receiver though, but I'm in comp eng, not mech eng, so I don't know.
[QUOTE=Inplabth;39680525]For those interested, [url=http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rifle-ammunition/762x54r]SGAmmo has 880 round crates of Combloc 7.62x54r surplus back in stock, along with some brown bear[/url]. The limit is one crate per order, and they got 600 crates. It's going pretty fast.[/QUOTE]
Probably should buy one even though I have no plans to shoot off my nugget anytime soon
[QUOTE=dogmachines;39680575]
Alright, so I may or may not have just spent most of my pay check on an M38 and 880 rounds of ammo for it.[/QUOTE]
can't really go wrong with that
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;39680580]Rather than having both barrels connected with a rigid structure, what about a semi-rigid or nonrigid structure? That way, if the barrels are connected by stiff springs or something, if you're looking to use inertia from one side to cycle one action, it won't cycle the other because no force would be applied to the other side, the springs or whatever would stretch, ensuring all rearward force is on one side. This essentially amounts to hooking up 2 single-barrel shotguns to each other with a spring, each one operating independently of the other. There may be some way to have a unified receiver though, but I'm in comp eng, not mech eng, so I don't know.[/QUOTE]
I thought of another possible idea, and whipped up a terrible illustration of it in paint. Rather than having a rigid structure attached to both barrels, why not have a rigid structure holding 2 non-secure barrels in place? Essentially, have a rigid structure (illustrated in black in the centre), and 2 barrels that start with a small metal diameter at the front and that get wider as they go back (The things on the sides). On the rigid structure, have metal rings that extend out at the same locations on each side that go, again, from small at the front to larger at the back. The barrel would go in from the back of the structure and rest in these rings, but not be attached to these rings, but because the rings would get smaller as you approach the front of the structure, the barrel would be unable to move forward. They would be held in place at the back by the receiver. This also allows you to independently swap barrels, you have the rigid structure attach to the receiver, and make it so you can detach the two parts, thus the rigid body holding the barrels comes off of the receiver, allowing you to swap barrels from the back end of the rigid structure, where they would be in the receiver. This means you could have someone who has a rifled barrel and a smoothbore, or someone who has a 26" and 28" barrel, hell you could even have an 18" and 30" barrel if you wanted to on the same platform, and while I'm no expert on how recoil systems work, I believe that having the 2 barrels not connected to each other, but rather sort-of freefloating within rings in this rigid structure, would solve the issues you're having with recoil operation, if I understand how it works correctly.
Here's my illustration, I literally named it terribleillustration.jpg:
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/a2YK9rw.jpg[/img_thumb]
[QUOTE=Birdman101;39680297]Or maybe have 2 separate magazines and separate actions, like this:
[IMG]http://i.imgbox.com/adquS04P.png [/IMG]
pardon the paintiness[/QUOTE]
Part of the challenge is to set it up with one magazine so it's less like two shotguns stuck together and more like a shotgun with two barrels that continuously fire one after another until the magazine is empty. Hard part will be coming up with a toggle to alternate where the shells get sent to.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;39680580]Rather than having both barrels connected with a rigid structure, what about a semi-rigid or nonrigid structure? That way, if the barrels are connected by stiff springs or something, if you're looking to use inertia from one side to cycle one action, it won't cycle the other because no force would be applied to the other side, the springs or whatever would stretch, ensuring all rearward force is on one side. This essentially amounts to hooking up 2 single-barrel shotguns to each other with a spring, each one operating independently of the other. There may be some way to have a unified receiver though, but I'm in comp eng, not mech eng, so I don't know.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's pretty much the way the Auto-5 works, though it's got a magazine tube as in a typical shotgun which I want to avoid, not scary enough. The Auto-5 uses the mag tube as a support for the barrel as it recoils. I could add a support under the barrels to allow them to recoil but I think gas operation with each barrel connected to it's own gas tube would be better. I'll probably just make a collar to slip over the barrels a little over half way down to direct the gas.
I'm sure there's a way to lock one of the bolts until it's time to fire the next barrel in an inertia system but I haven't come up with a way yet. That would be the best way to deal with the cycling considering the huge variety in shot shells, though there are lots of gas operated shotguns out there too, like the Remington 1100. What I'm thinking of is a solid bar with two gas cylinders drilled through it under the barrels. Then I can just hook em up to a carrier in each side of the receiver and have the bolts lock up with a cam like a Garand or an AR-15.
I thought you wanted it to be a double-barrelled and double-triggered shotgun, that would make it double-scary since you could fire 2 barrels at once by pulling the 2 triggers. That's why I'm trying to think of some way to operate it like that, essentially 2 different guns, but just one receiver.
[editline]22nd February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=RR_Raptor65;39681412]
Yeah, that's pretty much the way the Auto-5 works, though it's got a magazine tube as in a typical shotgun which I want to avoid, not scary enough. The Auto-5 uses the mag tube as a support for the barrel as it recoils. I could add a support under the barrels to allow them to recoil but I think gas operation with each barrel connected to it's own gas tube would be better. I'll probably just make a collar to slip over the barrels a little over half way down to direct the gas.
I'm sure there's a way to lock one of the bolts until it's time to fire the next barrel in an inertia system but I haven't come up with a way yet. That would be the best way to deal with the cycling considering the huge variety in shot shells, though there are lots of gas operated shotguns out there too, like the Remington 1100. What I'm thinking of is a solid bar with two gas cylinders drilled through it under the barrels. Then I can just hook em up to a carrier in each side of the receiver and have the bolts lock up with a cam like a Garand or an AR-15.[/QUOTE]
Also, what about my second idea and its accompanying horrid illustration? Wouldn't that provide the needed barrel support and look super-scary?
The problem with that is the entire barrel, upon recoiling into the receiver is only supported by the receiver. This is why I've attached them together with a rib, don't want em wiggling around all over the place. In the Auto-5 the barrel is attached as in a normal shotgun, just the ring which wraps around the mag tube is free to move and this supports the barrel.
I'd rather keep the barrels solid though, the recoiling barrels would be hilarious but I'd rather keep it simple, the gun is gonna complex enough.
Could always do the two triggers deal though, just need to work out the best way to cycle and feed em first, then I can work on getting the hammers in there.
I have an idea for how to get the shells to alternate. It might be a little complex, but it just might work.
Have a divider that goes between where shells get fed into the barrels. The catch is, on the end of the divider, there's a little nub, and as the shell passes over the nub, the shell is fed into the barrel and the divider rotates so that the next shell feeds into the other barrel.
Though with the double stack magazine I guess you could just feed one stack into each barrel.
[QUOTE=RR_Raptor65;39682682]The problem with that is the entire barrel, upon recoiling into the receiver is only supported by the receiver. This is why I've attached them together with a rib, don't want em wiggling around all over the place. In the Auto-5 the barrel is attached as in a normal shotgun, just the ring which wraps around the mag tube is free to move and this supports the barrel.
I'd rather keep the barrels solid though, the recoiling barrels would be hilarious but I'd rather keep it simple, the gun is gonna complex enough.
Could always do the two triggers deal though, just need to work out the best way to cycle and feed em first, then I can work on getting the hammers in there.[/QUOTE]
Technically upon recoiling the barrel would still be resting upon the bottom of the rings, just loosely rather than snugly.
So, I drew up this shotgun design that was like, double barrel, break action with a magazine and how it would work was the shells are sprung out when opened, then the barrel it locked back down with the shells moved into place by a kind of straight pull bolt action.
I have 95 percent certainty that this will not work and that I'm insane for thinking up a break barrel, bolt action, bullpup hybrid.
why cant we just do with a simple coach gun.
Ahh, much better...
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/mWaa1Ddl.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Jagur;39683851]why cant we just do with a simple coach gun.[/QUOTE]
not scary enough
[QUOTE=Jagur;39683851]why cant we just do with a simple coach gun.[/QUOTE]
It's 2013, we have the technology.
*covers up the half finished Flintlock*
Also, I think having 1 mag per barrel would be best, because I want this gun in Canuckistan, and if you make it 1 mag of 28 rounds for both barrels then the government will demand that mag be pinned to 5, meaning across both barrels we'd only get 5 shots total. If there's 2 separate 14-round mags, if we pin them to 5, we get 10 shots total, 5 per barrel.
I'm helping a family friend sell 2,000 rounds of boxed 1942 dated 30-06 bullets in original 20 round boxes from Eu-Claire munitions plant, identical to these: [URL="http://www.armslist.com/posts/645992/nebraska-ammo-for-sale--vintage-wwii-30-06-ammo"]http://www.armslist.com/posts/645992/nebraska-ammo-for-sale--vintage-wwii-30-06-ammo[/URL]
He sells them for .75 a bullet, which is practically giving them away! I also get a 10% commission, I get all the en-blocs that were loose in the box the boxes were in, and I get to buy all the leftover ammo for .50 each!
That's high for .30-06 surplus
[QUOTE=RR_Raptor65;39679675]Been working on that Biden Super Mega Express Double Barrel Semi-Automatic 12 Gauge Shotgun with Detachable magazine.
Had a nearly complete mechanism using an interia-based system when I realized firing one barrel would cycle both actions regardless. :v:
Here's the fancy barrel though:
[img_thumb]http://puu.sh/26H01[/img_thumb]
Think I'm gonna have to settle on gas operated unless I can come up with a locking mechanism to lock one of the inertia bolts until actually fired or manually operated.
Apparently shotgun barrel blanks are REALLY cheap too, $23 on Numrich.[/QUOTE]
Couldn't you just have the basic action of it work like a regular double barreled shotgun, except after you fire 2 shots, you break open the action to eject the spent shells and bring the new ones into battery?
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;39684612]Couldn't you just have the basic action of it work like a regular double barreled shotgun, except after you fire 2 shots, you break open the action to eject the spent shells and bring the new ones into battery?[/QUOTE]
I like this, this i like.
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;39684612]Couldn't you just have the basic action of it work like a regular double barreled shotgun, except after you fire 2 shots, you break open the action to eject the spent shells and bring the new ones into battery?[/QUOTE]
The point of him making that was to counter Biden's silly comment.
"If you want home defense just buy a double barrel shotgun, you don't need an AR-15 assault rifle with a 30 round clip to defend your home!"
so having it break action defeats the point
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;39684627]The point of him making that was to counter Biden's silly comment.
"If you want home defense just buy a double barrel shotgun, you don't need an AR-15 assault rifle with a 30 round clip to defend your home!"
so having it break action defeats the point[/QUOTE]
He's having some kind of issue I appear to be misunderstanding a bit. From what he described, he still has 2 triggers on there. Perhaps he could just have one trigger fire both barrels?
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;39684795]He's having some kind of issue I appear to be misunderstanding a bit. From what he described, he still has 2 triggers on there. Perhaps he could just have one trigger fire both barrels?[/QUOTE]
Then it's a machine gun
ATF, in their normal retardation, states that a firearm that fires multiple rounds with a single pull of the trigger is a machine gun. Which means a double barrel shotgun with a single trigger is a machine gun by the ATF's definitions.
[IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/No9mmEver.jpg[/IMG]
Ni-Nice and Clean!
(Mosin Bayonet being used for what it can only be used for, since it doesn't fit my nugget.)
New snow new camera.
[thumb]http://filesmelt.com/dl/00542.jpg[/thumb]
[QUOTE=16bit;39684962][IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/No9mmEver.jpg[/IMG]
Ni-Nice and Clean!
(Mosin Bayonet being used for what it can only be used for, since it doesn't fit my nugget.)[/QUOTE]
you got the savage and not the neos :I
[QUOTE=Protocol7;39685533]you got the savage and not the neos :I[/QUOTE]
It was gone when I went to the shop, also I'm pretty mother fucking sure I told you that I got that insted.
Just to clear something up between a friend and I, it's perfectly acceptable to use 0000 steel wool and lube to clean a bit of surface rust that's formed off of my Mosin bolt and to generally polish up the bolt and make it shine again?
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/d9wKKTM.jpg[/IMG]
The darker spots on the bolt cocking piece have formed a bit of rust since I took this picture somehow (even in dry ass Arizona).
[QUOTE=Death King83;39686022]Just to clear something up between a friend and I, it's perfectly acceptable to use 0000 steel wool and lube to clean a bit of surface rust that's formed off of my Mosin bolt and to generally polish up the bolt and make it shine again?
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/d9wKKTM.jpg[/IMG]
The darker spots on the bolt cocking piece have formed a bit of rust since I took this picture somehow (even in dry ass Arizona).[/QUOTE]
I polished mine on a buffing wheel. Who gives a shit, honestly?
"Oh no, that was original, Soviet issue grime and tarnish! It's now only worth two potato!"
These things have been refurbished probably more than once in their lifetimes. Especially if they were war-time production or prior. I wouldn't do that to a vet bring-back or an SA Finnish Capture, or anything older than a Hex receiver M91/30, but if it's a bog-standard $90 M91/30, a little steel wool won't hurt.
[QUOTE=mugofdoom;39686217]I polished mine on a buffing wheel. Who gives a shit, honestly?
"Oh no, that was original, Soviet issue grime and tarnish! It's now only worth two potato!"
These things have been refurbished probably more than once in their lifetimes. Especially if they were war-time production or prior. I wouldn't do that to a vet bring-back or an SA Finnish Capture, or anything older than a Hex receiver M91/30, but if it's a bog-standard $90 M91/30, a little steel wool won't hurt.[/QUOTE]
Well the rust is new, the spots are also new, and the bolt was veerrrryyyy shiny when I got it, so it's more like restoring it to how I got it. and I was speaking more generally, like that's the correct way to remove surface rust on a firearm right?
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