Why be happy? ("Happiness is a moral obligation"). - General

[QUOTE=Maloof?;50470299]What the fuck, are you actually serious? Nobody's trying to 'play the victim', in the same way that somebody who has a broken leg and says they can't run a race isn't 'playing the victim'. Depression is treatable, yes. It can be managed. But it can, in some instances, take a lot of work, a fair bit of money for therapists (esp. if you don't live in a country with some form of subsidised healthcare) and maybe the right medication. A lot of the time with depression it can be very hard, if not impossible, to 'think yourself better'. And yeah, it's all in your head. That's the definition of a mental illness. It doesn't make it any less difficult to overcome. Why are you acting like being supportive and friendly and empathetic is a bad thing?[/QUOTE] a broken leg can't be instantly healed with positive thinking, depression can all it takes is for you to stop thinking negatively and start thinking positively, [i]and it's only as difficult as you fucking make it[/i], which this forum tends to literally do all the goddamned time in every thread. that's why being supportive and friendly is a bad thing here, because you literally steer people in the wrong direction and they start thinking that you may be right. "pay thousands to therapists", "pay thousands on medication", etc. you are literally making people think that they can not figure it out themselves, that they are helpless and need the help of third parties. you are only enriching and further developing this affliction with each dumb piece of advice you give (not 'you' personally, that majority of this forum) when all it takes is asking oneself a series of questions and making the decision whether or not to be happy, by themselves and for themselves. pills will only make you numb, therapists will only drain your pocket. depression isn't the same as a broken leg, it's literally entirely dependent on your thoughts. if those thoughts can be deconstructed and understood by oneself, then depression no longer exists. the problem is confounded however when one is afflicted by depression for a prolonged period and they start assuming that sadness is the default mood instead of happiness. then it's just a matter of breaking bad habits. the point is that all it takes for you to climb out of the hole you have dug for yourself, is to grab that shovel and dig towards an upward angle back out. nothing more. deluding yourself it's more complicated than that will only lead to more problems.

[QUOTE=Rossy167;50470271]I'm not really feeling mentally prepared to deal with a proper argument, but here's the thing. You're contradicting yourself, you're somehow suggesting it sucks people have depression and it's not their fault but also they should feel guilty for it because they're being selfish and fucking other people over. Also, I'm really fucking glad I have permission from this guy to feel bad about things and talk to people about them, before I was just going to bottle it all up until the pressure reaches unhealthy levels and I explode. This entire scenario makes me think about religion, like the natural assumption here is that everyone is an amoral, insensitive, inconsiderate arsehole but with guidance from the more intellectually gifted, the ones who know better, they can become truly moral people. You have a raging boner for this video holy fuck. It is not nearly as helpful as you think it is, in fact it's harmful. Can you see how ridiculous trying to make people feel bad for feeling bad is? I don't even have words for this one, it just downright amoral and wrong. Sure there's some truth in it, say you're feeling down for a day, but in the context of actual mental health illness, talking to actual qualified psychiatrists and therapists not some old conservative radio host: no, no, no, no, no, no, a million fucking times no, no, no and no.[/QUOTE] No I really am not. It does suck yes. No. What I am trying to say is that whilst they have an illness, they still have responsibility for their own behaviour. It's not fair to project it onto other people. Hahaha, I just found it helpful personally. That isn't what the guy is trying to do here. That's just your skewed perception of it. Oh. Are you sure about that? I've spoken to psychiatrist/therapist, and that was exactly what they told me. You have to throw yourself into positive situations, and act happy even if you're not fully, and you eventually will at least enjoy it a tiny bit.

[QUOTE=Melnek;50470346]a broken leg can't be instantly healed with positive thinking, depression can [/QUOTE] Have you ever had depression? I mean real, serious depression? Have you ever spoken with a psychotherapist about depression? Because you cannot fix deep-seated, chronic depression with a simple session of positive thinking. Unbalanced and severely disrupted brain chemistry can often not be solved by just logically working through your thoughts. You're pulling this directly out of your ass.

[QUOTE=Maloof?;50470299]What the fuck, are you actually serious? Nobody's trying to 'play the victim', in the same way that somebody who has a broken leg and says they can't run a race isn't 'playing the victim'. Depression is treatable, yes. It can be managed. But it can, in some instances, take a lot of work, a fair bit of money for therapists (esp. if you don't live in a country with some form of subsidised healthcare) and maybe the right medication. A lot of the time with depression it can be very hard, if not impossible, to 'think yourself better'. And yeah, it's all in your head. That's the definition of a mental illness. It doesn't make it any less difficult to overcome. Why are you acting like being supportive and friendly and empathetic is a bad thing?[/QUOTE] Being supportive and friendly is a good thing. There's only so far that can go. Sometimes people need a kick up the backside to get themselves some help though.

[QUOTE=Melnek;50470300] ...then you couldn't play a victim anymore and couldn't hide behind depression as the sole excuse for your misfortunes[/QUOTE] Yeah, well, fuck you buddy. I'm transgender and I certainly don't hide behind my fucking depression. My depression exists because I'm in the process of getting therapy and I still look like some retarded guy. Clearly you haven't been depressed in your whole life, because generally it's a HUGE low in life, and it's not like anyone could follow your selfish, egoistic advice if they were depressed.

[QUOTE=Melnek;50470346]a broken leg can't be instantly healed with positive thinking, depression can all it takes is for you to stop thinking negatively and start thinking positively, [i]and it's only as difficult as you fucking make it[/i], which this forum tends to literally do all the goddamned time in every thread. that's why being supportive and friendly is a bad thing here, because you literally steer people in the wrong direction and they start thinking that you may be right. "pay thousands to therapists", "pay thousands on medication", etc. you are literally making people think that they can not figure it out themselves, that they are helpless and need the help of third parties. you are only enriching and further developing this affliction with each dumb piece of advice you give (not 'you' personally, that majority of this forum) when all it takes is asking oneself a series of questions and making the decision whether or not to be happy, by themselves and for themselves. pills will only make you numb, therapists will only drain your pocket. depression isn't the same as a broken leg, it's literally entirely dependent on your thoughts. if those thoughts can be deconstructed and understood by oneself, then depression no longer exists. the problem is confounded however when one is afflicted by depression for a prolonged period and they start assuming that sadness is the default mood instead of happiness. then it's just a matter of breaking bad habits. the point is that all it takes for you to climb out of the hole you have dug for yourself, is to grab that shovel and dig towards an upward angle back out. nothing more. deluding yourself it's more complicated than that will only lead to more problems.[/QUOTE] I agree with you about steering people in the wrong direction, however, there is support and empathy etc needed still. You're right about the thinking, though that does take work, and help to turn around. It's true, pills do just numb you from feeling anything. I believe therapy, and a few life routine alterations, and getting rid of negative influences are three of the most important roads to recovery. Depression is a long term illness, so it does still exist, you're just able to manage it more effectively so you don't suffer from as many symptoms/less severe level of symptoms. I agree that if you dwell on the depression itself, you stay there for longer, and it does get more complex than it needs to. You do literally just have to suck it up and get some help.

[QUOTE=GisG56;50470355]Being supportive and friendly is a good thing. There's only so far that can go. Sometimes people need a kick up the backside to get themselves some help though.[/QUOTE] big difference between encouraging someone to seek help and telling anybody who has depression that they are playing the victim and/or hiding behind excuses. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=GisG56;50470372]I agree with you about steering people in the wrong direction, however, there is support and empathy etc needed still. You're right about the thinking, though that does take work, and help to turn around. It's true, pills do just numb you from feeling anything. I believe therapy, and a few life routine alterations, and getting rid of negative influences are three of the most important roads to recovery. Depression is a long term illness, so it does still exist, you're just able to manage it more effectively so you don't suffer from as many symptoms/less severe level of symptoms. I agree that if you dwell on the depression itself, you stay there for longer, and it does get more complex than it needs to. You do literally just have to suck it up and get some help.[/QUOTE] Pills do not just numb you from feeling anything. If you have a half competent doctor they'll understand that mental health medication will always be a game of finding what works for each particular patient, both in choice of drug and dosage. Feeling numb to all emotion is literally one of the symptoms of depression - if that's what you're feeling when you're on antidepressants or SSRIs or any other drug, you need to go back to your doctor and, with their guidance, gradually switch to a different drug and then reevaluate.

[QUOTE=Rossy167;50470312]I'm so confused as to why basic empathy is so divisive. Like seriously, are you reading what you're writing?[/QUOTE] I find it pretty difficult to show empathy towards you when you reject a video and insult the creator, simply because you happen to disagree with him. As someone else said, the video does actually touch upon some pretty helpful things in terms of dealing with depression, and I think it is foolish of you to dismiss it, based on what is basically "you don't know my pain, you don't know my depression". Most people encounter depression in their lives, in one way or another, and I am sure this man has also had his moments of hardship; you're the one lacking empathy, because you're so absorbed in your own suffering. It's a short video with a positive message, and it's beyond me how people can get so upset over it. It's a general message, and obviously doesn't cover every single case in existence. [QUOTE=Zephyrs;50469589]This whole thing falls apart as soon as you start dealing with hardcore psychopaths and narcissists. It's generally a good guideline to at least appear to be happy, but there are plenty of situations where it does not do you any good, and may actively harm you.[/QUOTE] Yeah good job, you proved a general message, communicated in a short video format, wrong by presenting very extreme cases. The video doesn't address that issue at all.

[QUOTE=Melnek;50470300]maybe if you actually took that advice to heart instead of being busy deconstructing it and rejecting it on the internet you would find that it's actually good, straightforward advice oh shit but wait, it might result in a better life and you wouldn't really want that would you, then you couldn't play a victim anymore and couldn't hide behind depression as the sole excuse for your misfortunes[/QUOTE] And you concluded all that by a random post of mine and knowing absolutely nothing about me.

[QUOTE=Maloof?;50470352]Have you ever had depression? I mean real, serious depression? Have you ever spoken with a psychotherapist about depression? Because you cannot fix deep-seated, chronic depression with a simple session of positive thinking. Unbalanced and severely disrupted brain chemistry can often not be solved by just logically working through your thoughts. You're pulling this directly out of your ass.[/QUOTE] yes i fucking had depression. i dont parade it around like some special snowflake and how "nobody understands the severity of it" and it has nothing to do with the discussion you can ask yourself the same questions that a psychotherapist may ask you -- they're not some divine being that asks unfathomable riddles that magically cure you of depression when you start thinking about them. they're just there to ask you how you're feeling. that's it. you can ask yourself the same and how honest you will be depends, again, on oneself. and depression never directly causes severe disrupted brain chemistry. it causes mild to low disrupted brain chemistry that almost has no effect on the person whatsoever. the main factor and the most detrimental one remains the persons conscious attitude towards his situation. our brain chemistry changes all the time fucking daily. it changes when we eat something we like, see something we like, or experience something good or bad. so don't try to play the "its not out fault, its the chemicals in our brain" card that, btw, heavy smokers also use to absolve them of their addiction. (and the same one i like to use also but whatever) you are severely undervaluing logicality and a persons ability to rationalize his thoughts, there are extreme cases of course, where a person has been distressed and depressed for the past few decades and self treatment is almost a monumental task by that point -- but for the majority of 20 something year olds and teenagers that frequent this forum, i assure you severe depression almost never exists. severe depression is something you develop down the line along the years, and not something you get when you're mistreated by schoolmates or dont know what to do after college or university or lack of a purpose or have some babbys first existential crisis.

[QUOTE=Maloof?;50470385]big difference between encouraging someone to seek help and telling anybody who has depression that they are playing the victim and/or hiding behind excuses. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] Pills do not just numb you from feeling anything. If you have a half competent doctor they'll understand that mental health medication will always be a game of finding what works for each particular patient, both in choice of drug and dosage. Feeling numb to all emotion is literally one of the symptoms of depression - if that's what you're feeling when you're on antidepressants or SSRIs or any other drug, you need to go back to your doctor and, with their guidance, gradually switch to a different drug and then reevaluate.[/QUOTE] I think that excuses is obviously a part of the illness. Hence why it's so debilitating. Depends on the person. Medication can do that to you - in fact it's a temporary side effect for quite a few SSRI's. It then works in combination with therapy. You cannot just get better by taking pills.

[QUOTE=AntonioR;50470406]And you concluded all that by a random post of mine and knowing absolutely nothing about me.[/QUOTE] i called out your dumb snarky counter-argument that many people like to assume, not you personally.

[QUOTE=TehMentos;50470399] It's a short video with a positive message, and it's beyond me how people can get so upset over it. It's a general message, and obviously doesn't cover every single case in existence. .[/QUOTE] Finally someone who gets it. Thank you!

Melnek, Depression, as I've dealt with it and have helped others deal with it, is partially the end result of building up bad habits of cyclical thinking. Breaking out of it involves deconstructing pretty much every thought you come up with and actively trying your hardest to combat your impulses to think super negatively, which can be an uphill battle if you are already lacking motivation. I can understand the "fuck you just do it" attitude when it comes to a lot of things. Some people, like me, respond well to it when it's with good intentions in the case of losing weight. On the other hand, you're telling people who are already blaming themselves, "fuck you just do it", and that puts them in a position where they feel guilty for being miserable around you. And, with no surprise, this approach to depression help keeps them locked in. [I]"Why can't I just feel happy?"[/I] It probably sounds foreign or stupid to people that doesn't deal with it, but when all you can think about is wanting to be absolutely far away from everyone while simultaneously feeling lonely and suicidal, telling them to stop being awful isn't going to help. That doesn't mean that [I]all[/I] depressed people are innocent - I've totally told off a depressed friend who was contributing to his awful mentality by acting out and expecting no repercussions. He expected me to keep propping him up even after doing things like calling girls he was into "whore cunts" and then crying to me about how girls don't want to be around him, and that he should just end it all. That stuff is nonsense, but not a personal attribute of all depressed people, and the lazy attention seekers who claim to be depressed or victimized should be treated as separate people. You shouldn't dismiss all depressed people based on the fakers or losers. You have to look at how a depressed person actually thinks. It's a lot of illogical assumptions and defaulting to negativity that seems like it would be super easy to fix, but it takes so much effort, and I think it's sad that you actually think depressed people are just stupid and lazy like you're suggesting.

May I just point out, this thread was not intended for a competition on "who is the most depressed". It was intended for a positive message for everyone (those who are and those who are not suffering mental illness). I don't know why everyone here seems to think it's cool to argue who feels the crappiest. How about instead of complaining about how crap you feel on here, you actually go and do something to make yourselves happy. Honestly.

[QUOTE=Melnek;50470414]yes i fucking had depression. i dont parade it around like some special snowflake and how "nobody understands the severity of it" and it has nothing to do with the discussion [B]and depression never directly causes severe disrupted brain chemistry[/B]. it causes mild to low disrupted brain chemistry that almost has no effect on the person whatsoever. the main factor and the most detrimental one remains the persons conscious attitude towards his situation. our brain chemistry changes all the time fucking daily. it changes when we eat something we like, see something we like, or experience something good or bad. so don't try to play the "its not out fault, its the chemicals in our brain" card that, btw, heavy smokers also use to absolve them of their addiction. (and the same one i like to use also but whatever) [/QUOTE] [url]https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/heal-your-brain/201107/depression-and-anxiety-disorders-damage-your-brain-especially-when[/url] I've been depressed too, and I agree that treating the problem as an attitudinal adjustment is a great way to get back on track, but I don't like how you're approaching it. You're being aggressive about it, possibly because of personal attachment to the subject, but not everyone responds to aggression in the same way you do. I don't like the idea of treating all depressed people that they are just pieces of shit that need to get their shit together like you're doing. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=GisG56;50470436]May I just point out, this thread was not intended for a competition on "who is the most depressed". It was intended for a positive message for everyone (those who are and those who are not suffering mental illness). I don't know why everyone here seems to think it's cool to argue who feels the crappiest. How about instead of complaining about how crap you feel on here, you actually go and do something to make yourselves happy. Honestly.[/QUOTE] Are you serious? I'm referencing my previous struggles with depression not to "complain" but to establish a little bit of ethos for what I'm saying - I'm not trying to say I've been more depressed than everyone else and how you could possible extrapolate that from what I'm saying is beyond me. And people saying, "fuck you, I feel like shit" isn't just people trying to find comfort in complaining - I think they're trying to say upset for trivializing their lifelong struggles. That anger is coming from how you're wording your sentences. ("Why don't you just go outside and do something to make yourselves happy?") To me, that speaks about how much you don't know about depression. And hell, I don't want to suggest that I'm the most qualified person to talk about it, but then again I'm not telling people to [I]just[/I] be happy and that they're immoral for being depressed. A lot of what I've said to help people in the depression thread is tell them that it's okay to feel sad. It's okay to feel those emotions, and that feeling sad isn't bad. They should be encouraged to feel how they feel and focus more on how they think. Denying your feelings is a great way to bottle things up, and that's what will happen if you go around convincing people that depression is immoral.

GisG56 watched a bunch of conservative videos on youtube and now hes an expert in depression

[QUOTE=Melnek;50470414]yes i fucking had depression. i dont parade it around like some special snowflake and how "nobody understands the severity of it" and it has nothing to do with the discussion you can ask yourself the same questions that a psychotherapist may ask you -- they're not some divine being that asks unfathomable riddles that magically cure you of depression when you start thinking about them. they're just there to ask you how you're feeling. that's it. you can ask yourself the same and how honest you will be depends, again, on oneself. and depression never directly causes severe disrupted brain chemistry. it causes mild to low disrupted brain chemistry that almost has no effect on the person whatsoever. the main factor and the most detrimental one remains the persons conscious attitude towards his situation. our brain chemistry changes all the time fucking daily. it changes when we eat something we like, see something we like, or experience something good or bad. so don't try to play the "its not out fault, its the chemicals in our brain" card that, btw, heavy smokers also use to absolve them of their addiction. (and the same one i like to use also but whatever) you are severely undervaluing logicality and a persons ability to rationalize his thoughts, there are extreme cases of course, where a person has been distressed and depressed for the past few decades and self treatment is almost a monumental task by that point -- but for the majority of 20 something year olds and teenagers that frequent this forum, i assure you severe depression almost never exists. severe depression is something you develop down the line along the years, and not something you get when you're mistreated by schoolmates or dont know what to do after college or university or lack of a purpose or have some babbys first existential crisis.[/QUOTE] If severely disrupted brain chemistry isn't the primary factor in mental illnesses, then how do we explain the widespread usage and success of SSRI medications? Why is serotonin seen as the key ingredient in stabilising and maintaining stability of the mentally ill? I'll take the established literature over anecdotes any day, mate. I don't know if you've ever sat down with a psychotherapist, but they're not there to 'ask you how you're feeling'. Any high-school counselor can do that, and they'll charge tuppence for it. Psychotherapy is about deconstructing the unhelpful thought patterns that somebody has adopted - either through external introduction or repeated internal reinforcement - and helping the patient find ways to break those patterns. You can't just wake up one day, reach into your bag of wonders and magically find 6 years of psychological theory and neurological science education. Depression isn't about what triggers it. Some people [I]do[/I] get genuine, severe depression when they don't know what to do after university or when they are mistreated by schoolmates. Depression is rarely something that comes on entirely due to external events. You're showing a deep lack of understanding as to how depression actually functions, and for some reason you're talking about it as though it's something people intentionally inflict on others? Maybe instead of relying solely on your own experiences and your grr-I'm-a-man-harden-the-fuck-up attitude you should do some research [URL="http://www.mentalhealth.org.nz/get-help/a-z/resource/13/depression"]and[/URL] [URL="http:///"]get[/URL] [URL="http://www.allaboutdepression.com/cau_02.html"]educated[/URL], [URL="http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk/dlp/depression-information/medical-causes-of-depression/"]son[/URL]

I do think the whole depression discussion in this thread is quite a derailment. The main point of the video seems to be about people's obligation to not inflict unhappiness on others. You're considered a dickhead for turning up at your friend's birthday party in a shit mood, just to start a massive argument and inflicting your unhappiness on others, who are just there to have fun. It doesn't matter if you're depressed or not. You're clearly an asshole for doing that. But let's look at it from a different perspective: You're clinically depressed, but today you're feeling a little better, and you feel like life is improving. It just so happens that today, your neighbour is in a shitty mood, because reasons, and yells at you for not having cut the hedge the right height. This makes you feel even fucking worse, and puts you back to square one, in a depressed state. So that neighbour is a fucking moron for inflicting his shitty mood on others, right? It's really pretty logical and, at least to me, is common sense and courtesy.

To continue with Rusty's post: The best therapists aren't the ones telling you what to do. If you have a therapist telling [I]controlling[/I] your thoughts, ditch them. The best therapists are the ones that get you thinking and make you aware of how people think, the fallacies of your thinking, and how you can be a self-checking king. And that derives from the idea that people establish habits in how they think, and as with anything some of those habits can be really bad for you. Some people don't even know how to express core emotions for crying out loud - some people are convinced that crying is something that pansies do and that expressing that displeasure is a sign of weakness. And so they default to thought patterns that avoids crying or moving through sad emotions, which leads to bottling up emotions, which leads to stress and random bursts of anger. And a lot of people don't even realize these things. A good therapist will point these things out in a way that will teach you question yourself. For these reasons, it's not a simple matter of "going outside and being happy". Sometimes, people do just have to stop wallowing in their sadness, but it's very, very incorrect to just jump straight to that conclusion. Some people need to relearn how to think before they can be happy, and telling them that they're somehow wrong for being unhappy, is detrimental, not productive. Telling them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps is telling them to just reach their goal - it's absolutely useless. "Just hit all the pins down, aspiring bowling champ." "Just succeed on your first date, sheltered neckbeard!" "Just become President, Mr. Independent!" Stating this shit is downright useless in a lot of cases, and only makes sense when people are deliberately sabotaging themselves so they can complain about stuff, i.e. my old High School friend that was going around calling girls whores and cunts with full knowledge that he was just going to complain about everyone else being mean to him.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;50470512]To continue with Rusty's post: The best therapists aren't the ones telling you what to do. If you have a therapist telling [I]controlling[/I] your thoughts, ditch them. The best therapists are the ones that get you thinking and make you aware of how people think, the fallacies of your thinking, and how you can be a self-checking king. And that derives from the idea that people establish habits in how they think, and as with anything some of those habits can be really bad for you. Some people don't even know how to express core emotions for crying out loud - some people are convinced that crying is something that pansies do and that expressing that displeasure is a sign of weakness. And so they default to thought patterns that avoids crying or moving through sad emotions, which leads to bottling up emotions, which leads to stress and random bursts of anger. And a lot of people don't even realize these things. A good therapist will point these things out in a way that will teach you question yourself. For these reasons, it's not a simple matter of "going outside and being happy". Sometimes, people do just have to stop wallowing in their sadness, but it's very, very incorrect to just jump straight to that conclusion. Some people need to relearn how to think before they can be happy, and telling them that they're somehow wrong for being unhappy, is detrimental, not productive. Telling them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps is telling them to just reach their goal - it's absolutely useless. "Just hit all the pins down, aspiring bowling champ." "Just succeed on your first date, sheltered neckbeard!" "Just become President, Mr. Independent!" Stating this shit is downright useless in a lot of cases, and only makes sense when people are deliberately sabotaging themselves so they can complain about stuff, i.e. my old High School friend that was going around calling girls whores and cunts with full knowledge that he was just going to complain about everyone else being mean to him.[/QUOTE] Exactly - it's about being mindful of what's going on in your head and letting yourself let go of the thoughts that aren't helpful or constructive. And it can be far, far more difficult than it might sound - hence therapy sessions. You're a good one, Wauterboi

[QUOTE=TehMentos;50470490]I do think the whole depression discussion in this thread is quite a derailment. The main point of the video seems to be about people's obligation to not inflict unhappiness on others. You're considered a dickhead for turning up at your friend's birthday party in a shit mood, just to start a massive argument and inflicting your unhappiness on others, who are just there to have fun. It doesn't matter if you're depressed or not. You're clearly an asshole for doing that. But let's look at it from a different perspective: You're clinically depressed, but today you're feeling a little better, and you feel like life is improving. It just so happens that today, your neighbour is in a shitty mood, because reasons, and yells at you for not having cut the hedge the right height. This makes you feel even fucking worse, and puts you back to square one, in a depressed state. So that neighbour is a fucking moron for inflicting his shitty mood on others, right? It's really pretty logical and, at least to me, is common sense and courtesy.[/QUOTE] That's only partially true. Don't purposely bring your shit to the table to ruin everyone else's day. At the same time, however, the expectation that everyone else should put a smile on to ensure [I]you[/I] don't have to deal with the fact that it's not always a bright and sunny day for everyone else is selfish in itself. [video=youtube;l_1FbjuJp4E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_1FbjuJp4E[/video]

[QUOTE=Rusty100;50470466]GisG56 watched a bunch of conservative videos on youtube and now hes an expert in depression[/QUOTE] Like I mentioned before, you do not know me personally. So how could you possibly know anything about me? O_o Jheeez you guys are a negative bunch.

i can read your posts, so i know what you think, and i know how completely baseless it is

[QUOTE=wauterboi;50470444][url]https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/heal-your-brain/201107/depression-and-anxiety-disorders-damage-your-brain-especially-when[/url] I've been depressed too, and I agree that treating the problem as an attitudinal adjustment is a great way to get back on track, but I don't like how you're approaching it. You're being aggressive about it, possibly because of personal attachment to the subject, but not everyone responds to aggression in the same way you do. I don't like the idea of treating all depressed people that they are just pieces of shit that need to get their shit together like you're doing. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] Are you serious? I'm referencing my previous struggles with depression not to "complain" but to establish a little bit of ethos for what I'm saying - I'm not trying to say I've been more depressed than everyone else and how you could possible extrapolate that from what I'm saying is beyond me. And people saying, "fuck you, I feel like shit" isn't just people trying to find comfort in complaining - I think they're trying to say upset for trivializing their lifelong struggles. That anger is coming from how you're wording your sentences. ("Why don't you just go outside and do something to make yourselves happy?") To me, that speaks about how much you don't know about depression. And hell, I don't want to suggest that I'm the most qualified person to talk about it, but then again I'm not telling people to [I]just[/I] be happy and that they're immoral for being depressed. A lot of what I've said to help people in the depression thread is tell them that it's okay to feel sad. It's okay to feel those emotions, and that feeling sad isn't bad. They should be encouraged to feel how they feel and focus more on how they think. Denying your feelings is a great way to bottle things up, and that's what will happen if you go around convincing people that depression is immoral.[/QUOTE] I am not telling people to "just be happy". I am telling them by telling them to go and do something which entertains them, rather than dwell on their illness even further online, and dig themselves an even bigger hole. I am helping. I have a fair bit of knowledge thank you, I believe in problem solving, rather than dwelling and making situation worse (I've learned that relatively recently). Whoa, Whoa, I never said anyone was immoral for being depressed, talk about blowing things out of proportion. Of course it's okay to feel sad, it is not okay to inflict that on others through terrible behaviour though. I never said people should bottle up emotions, nor that depression is immoral, so I'm going to ignore that.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;50470535]That's only partially true. Don't purposely bring your shit to the table to ruin everyone else's day. At the same time, however, the expectation that everyone else should put a smile on to ensure [I]you[/I] don't have to deal with the fact that it's not always a bright and sunny day for everyone else is selfish in itself. [/QUOTE] Obviously there's a limit to how much you can hold back bad thoughts and unhappiness. I just believe that one should still strive to do so to their best ability, when interacting with people who do not have anything to do with your feelings. There's also a big difference between putting on a smile, and just not contributing to make other people's lives more miserable. You might not be in the mood to smile, but that's not what matters, as the smile is just a simplified way of saying you should treat people positively, and not rain on their parade. It's not black and white, where you either show happiness or not. You don't have to look fantastic and happy, as long as you don't limit other people's ability to do so.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;50470553]i can read your posts, so i know what you think, and i know how completely baseless it is[/QUOTE] Good job.

[QUOTE=Maloof?;50470529]Exactly - it's about being mindful of what's going on in your head and letting yourself let go of the thoughts that aren't helpful or constructive. And it can be far, far more difficult than it might sound - hence therapy sessions. You're a good one, Wauterboi[/QUOTE] I don't want to toot my own horn, because really I don't think it's a horn worth tooting, but a lot of people tell me a lot of stuff about their lives. Since I moved to my second high school people have told me about some of the darkest things, including feelings of suicide, their darkest secrets (sometimes pertaining to things like having been raped), and stuff like that. People still talk to me about their depression and problematic feelings. And I think what helps is listening to them and asking questions - sometimes even [I]dumb[/I] questions - just to get them thinking and questioning things that they thought were true before. It really does weird me out sometimes that people like talking to me about their problems - hell I was a super inoffensive technically popular kid in the back during my high school years and I personally feel like none of those conversations seemed like they should have happened, but I guess people like how I listened. And I learned all of this from a friend who got me thinking. I used to be convinced that if I wasn't always outgoing, always smiling, always dating, always partying, always succeeding that I was a loser. And I basically questioned my way out of all of that, and I've become a cynical, pessimistic, selfish, happy asshole. And that's what I think a lot of depressed people need to do: question everything. A lot of depressed people have a broken mental foundation that prevents them from moving up, and had I continued with the pressure that I was putting on myself that I wasn't even aware was incorrect, I probably would be in a dark, dark place. And I can guarantee that applying pressure where there's already a lot of mental pressure isn't a remedy - if I told the people that talked to me to just "buck up and stop being so miserable", I don't think they would have felt as comforted or motivated. I've always had an interest in Psychology and I'm working towards a minor currently just to test the waters, but I can say that with the History of Psychology class, in recent years client-centered therapy has definitely been more about listening to the patient instead of pushing theories. You listen and you introduce them to relevant applications of psychology in efforts to teach them to self improve as opposed to deliver a direct remedy. In essence, you teach them to question themselves and their reality. And that's basically what I learned too from my friend who helped me out of my depression, and what I try to provide others when they come to me. [editline]7th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=GisG56;50470570]I am not telling people to "just be happy". I am telling them by telling them to go and do something which entertains them[/QUOTE] What do you do when nothing entertains you? Nothing makes you happy. You don't even have the energy to play video games. You could just... die? And yes, you said that people are morally obligated to be happy. Moral obligation means you're only morally right when you do something. Failure to do that thing makes you immoral.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;50470587] What do you do when nothing entertains you? Nothing makes you happy. You don't even have the energy to play video games. You could just... die? And yes, you said that people are morally obligated to be happy. Moral obligation means you're only morally right for doing something.[/QUOTE] Well, complaining about it on here certainly doesn't do any good for yourself. Yes. I never said that being depressed is immoral though. Morally obligated to be happy- like the guy in the video said, having control over your emotions. I seriously cannot be bothered with this now (it's boring). Have fun everyone.

[QUOTE=Melnek;50470422]i called out your dumb snarky counter-argument that many people like to assume, not you personally.[/QUOTE] At the end, you also know nothing about those random people too; what they went through, why they are saying it, etc. Many people work hard for those "just" and "as simple as" things in life and it simply doesn't pay out. You can bust your ass off at college, invest money and years of life, in hope to "just" get a good job, work on your projects to "just" have something to show on job interviews, but there is no guarantee you will ever get one. And you can't "just" find friends if you are living in the middle of nowhere, and you can't "just" leave because you failed and have no money to start over. Life is more complicated than "just do it".