• Leon Trotsky: A man amongst pigs.
    85 replies, posted
Good thing you mentioned animal farm, it was the first thing I thought of when I read the title.
I knew a bit about him, not enough though. Been in a few discussions over what would of happened if he had taken control of the Soviet Union instead of Stalin, all speculation but interesting. Stalin's 5 year plans although very tyrannical, had a good impact on Soviet heavy industry giving them quite a boost in WW2. It is guessed that Trotsky would not have done such things but it is unknown if he would of still managed to increase industry as much. Anyone got ideas on his views on industry and the role of country peasants and Kulaks?
He looks like one i know
Communism is evil and Trotsky was evil. It's a match made in Sugar Candy Mountain.
Trotsky probably would of done things similar to Stalin. The secret police state and that was already in place by the time Lenin died.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;28319065]Trotsky probably would of done things similar to Stalin.[/QUOTE] Not in the slightest.
[QUOTE=Jiyoon;28305524] Oh yeah also he had a killer haircut and [B]'stache[/B], and fucked Frida Kahlo, who was also a communist.. [/QUOTE] So did she: [img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8qG1ioTYz7s/R1QvnDTWfUI/AAAAAAAAACU/3QuMtyzRpzU/s1600-R/signature.jpg[/img] :wtc:
[QUOTE=Jiyoon;28311772]Is there something you'd like to contribute?[/QUOTE] He lost the struggle for power because he was an idiot. He never promoted himself and expected the position.
"Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky? He got an ice pick That made his ears burn " "Whatever happened to the heroes?"
[QUOTE=Number-41;28319407]So did she: [img_thumb]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8qG1ioTYz7s/R1QvnDTWfUI/AAAAAAAAACU/3QuMtyzRpzU/s1600-R/signature.jpg[/img_thumb] :wtc:[/QUOTE] She's huge! Her earrings are human hands!
When at the age of 15, whenever Trotsky (then Lev Bronstein) would return home, him and his father would have furious disputes over the peasant workers his father employed for hard manual labor on his father's large chunk of land. These debates eventually lead to his father cutting funds for his schooling, and to Lev's exile from his family. Lev was like "yeah, well fuck you. I'm going to go listen to Linkin Park," or the equivalent in the late 1800s, I'm sure. [b]tl;dr Trotsky was an angsty and angry young man, who felt for the oppressed and didn't like his fther.[/b] As a young adult, he was introduced to Marx and Engels' political philosophy, and joined a small group of radical students for debate and conversation (today we call these hippies). Here, he met his first wife, Alexandra Sookolovskaya, a strong Marxist. Together, the two and their friends created a workers' union, which didn't actually help anyone, but it was a good idea. As he started writing for a radical leftist newspaper, he and Alexandra was arrested by the Tsar's forces. They were married in the Moscow transfer prison, in what I assume was really awkward when the judge's words were "20 years in exile, you may now kiss the bride". During his first imprisonment, he finally turned towards Marxism in full upon first reading the works of Lenin, who, at the time, wasn't a douchebag. [b]tl;dr He became a Marxist, worked at radical student organizations, met his first wife and married her in prison[/b] He was exiled to Siberia, but escaped through many cunning plans, and first got the name Trotsky here, when he forged a passport with a random name on it. Making it the city of Samara, he hooked up with the local leftist union and began writing for them under the pen name Pero, or Pen. He was sent all aboot to recruit revolutionaries to the cause. Eventually, he was sent across Europe, to London, where he met Lenin in exile for the first time. Lenin's council in exile of a bunch of Russian socialists, communists, US democratic party candidates, and anarchists decided Trotsky was so good at speaking that they sent him off to make speeches everywhere in Europe, which practically made people's ears explode from their awesomeness. [b]Escaped, made his way to London, met Lenin, and was given the job of speaking across Europe[/b] He married Natalia Sedov in France, after his first wife had divorced him (it was a distance thing, she was still back in Russia while Leon was getting all kinds of pussy in Europe). The Russian Social Democrats, the only real socialist/Marxist arty in Russia, met in Belgium and London. Because of Lenin's dickery, they couldn't agree, and the party lines were split between Lenin's Bolsheviks, and Martov's Mensheviks. [b]Married a marxist in exile in France, got caught up when the party split between Mensheviks and Bolsheviks[/b] Trotsky was a Menshevik. The writers at the paper he wrote for disagreed, and they split apart. He severed all ties with the Bolsheviks. He made a prediction that Lenin's governing structure would lead to bureaucracy instead of party, committee instead of bureaucracy, and dictator instead of committee. This basically gave him the right to say "I told you so". [b]Believed Lenin would be a dictator, started a rivalry[/b] But he broke with the Mensheviks over disputes on alliance with other left groups, which was also a major factor in Lenin's split. So he was basically non partisan for a while there. He participated in leading many strike during the Russian-Japanese war. His wife was arrested, and she told him to hide his ass, so he took off to Finland, which I guess is like where communists go if they need to go somewhere cause it's like every fucking communist that has ever been in exile exiled to Finland. [b]Became non-partisan, but independently led strikes across Russia during the Russo-Jap war[/b] When he heard that the revolution had began in October of 05, he high tailed it back to St. Petersburg where the action was and got there that night, just in time to become a member of the local workers' council, made of various parties representing the peoples. Trotsky attended meetings as a representative of the Social Democrats, and was the most badass dude there. [b]Represented to Social Dems in a newly formed Soviet in St. Petersburg[/b] Next thing you know, he and his wife are united and the council hall was raided by Tsar Dickinass the second's military and he's thrown in prison again. He actually got a trial this time, but he could call no witnesses. His elderly parents were there, and he suffered one of his many fainting spells while being questioned, good going Leon. [b]imprisoned again, fainted while being question at trial, infront of his parents[/b] He escaped when their prison convoy stopped at a town on the way to the prison, and made it back to St. Petersburg, where he gather his woman, and then slipped into Finland, to Helsinki, where he met Lenin, who was in full out ass mode. They immediately fought with each other during a meeting of RSDLP reps in Finland, where Lenin was like "We need to purge the factions!" and Trotsky was like "No way, man, unity makes us stronger!" and then they hated each other. Lenin called him a Judas. [b]escaped to Finland, him and Lenin became enemies[/b] When WWI kicked off, the Bolsheviks were minority and they broke away from the RSDLP to form a separate party. Trotsky was in Serbia and wrote for a bunch of papers. He fled to Switzerland as the workers in all nations in Europe backed their imperialist leaders. He wrote saying that "war is stupid and you best not participate, niggas", when Lenin totally stole that idea and wrote "and its our duty to kick the Tsar's ass, even if it means Germany winning". The Bolsheviks were accused of being in cahoots with the Germans, and while it has never been proven, there apparently are records of some major funds coming from the German empire to the Bolsheviks a few years before. Trotsky was all like "nigga please" to Lenin and they hated each other more. In 1917, he took off to America, where in New York he practically started the socialist/communist movement when he realized that American socialists were like 20 years behind. [b]Bolsheviks broke away, Trotsky was in Europe when WWI started, Lenin and Trotsky disagreed more, he fled to America where he started the American socialist movement[/b] Then, the February revolution happened, and he tries to get back to Russia, but was detained and eventually was released by command of the new liberal socialist government, lead in no small part by the Mensheviks. In the vote with unity with other leftist groups in the Duma, Trotsky cast the first vote in favor. [b]February Revolution happened, voted for unity in government[/b] It was then that Lenin and Trotsky worked together again, and the combined their political skill and angelic speaking together to sway people and be awesome dudes, even if they still disagreed on most things. Totsky's kids were very politically active, and he reunited with his daughters of his first wife in a socialist rally in Moscow. The provisional government voted to continue the war, and reorganized itself. They arrested all social democrats. Trotsky was imprisoned again, and Lenin shaved his stache and grew out his hair so he could escape to Socialistland aka Finland. Petrograd had an uprising, and released Trotsky. Trotsky and Lenin's comrade Kamenev (also now Trotsky's brother in law) celebrated with a cigarette. After one puff, Trotsky fainted. When he came to, he was the leader o the Petrograd soviet and practically in charge of the city. The Red Guard stormed the Duma and arrested the government. This was the revolution. Lenin came back to Russia and was greeted warmly. Together, the two restructured the government, and created the new bitchin Russia. [b]Government was reorganized and the social dems were imprisoned. The socialists and communists took power in St. Petersburg and released Trotsky, making him leader of the Petrograd Soviet. The revolution sparked and they took the nation[/b] They gave away some of their lands to the Germans in exchange for peace, but this led to many of the leaders leaving. Trotsky resigned, but Lenin immediately put him as leader of the new army. The civil war was in full swing, and Trotsky did marvelously at defending the Red territory from invading White forces and Americans/Brits. Unofortunately, against Trotsky's wishes, Lenin was like, "Mensheviks? Socialists? Leftists? Fuck you guys, Bolshevik-only government, biznitch," which forced the Mensheviks and other formerly allies of the revolution to fight against them. Lenin categorized all of them as Whites and enemies, so they were all killed just the same. This is when, in my opinion, Lenin turned into a dickwad and tyrant, and why I'm not a big fan of him, at all. [b]Stopped the world war in Russia, Lenin became a dick by forcing non Bolshevik communists to join with the whites in the civil war[/b] Trotsky took his armored train from frontline to frontline, actively encouraging the soldiers there. He was right in the battle almost always- his train was shot at by planes, his hat was shot off his head, he was once directly int eh middle of an artillery barrage. He and Stalin, a leader on the front, hated each other and disagreed strongly. We all know how that ends. After the war was won, Lenin was immediately like "Poland, we invade it, now." Trotsky was like "no". But Lenin, having full power, went ahead anyhow, and the Red Army invaded its way to Poland, but was turned back. Trotsky talked Lenin into peace, and they retreated back to Russia. [b]Fought on the frontlines like a man, was against Russia invading Poland[/b] Lenin had a stroke in 1922, and began deciding his choice for party leadership. Stalin basically lost it when he, well, lost it and insulted Lenin's wife. Lenin wrote down immediately that Stalin was an ass and Trotsky was a pretty chill guy. When Lenin kicked off, his two best buddies Kamenev and Zinoviev, who still held Lenin's Trotsky=negative stance, worked with Stalin to gain party power. They were able to convince the nation to instate Stalin. Immediately, they exiled Trotsky. Kamenev and Zinoviev would later ally with Trotsky against Stalin once they saw how much of an ass he was. And that's the history o Trotsky up until Stalin wew [b]stalin was an ass and cheated his way to power once Lenin died[/b] [b]tl;dr Trotsky is a pretty cool guy who was all like 'democracy and unity and stuff'[/b] QUOTES TIME "As long as I breathe I hope. As long as I breathe I shall fight for the future, that radiant future, in which man, strong and beautiful, will become master of the drifting stream of his history and will direct it towards the boundless horizons of beauty, joy and happiness!" "In our eyes, individual terror is inadmissible precisely because it belittles the role of the masses in their own consciousness, reconciles them to their own powerlessness, and turns their eyes and hopes toward a great avenger and liberator who someday will come and accomplish his mission." "A means can be justified only by its end. But the end in its turn needs to be justified." "A sledgehammer breaks glass but forges steel." "There is a limit to the application of democratic methods. You can inquire of all the passengers as to what type of car they like to ride in, but it is impossible to question them as to whether to apply the brakes when the train is at full speed and accident threatens." "Bureaucracy and social harmony are inversely proportional to each other." "Socialism needs democracy like the human body needs oxygen."
[QUOTE=BugsyXoX;28320341]He lost the struggle for power because he was an idiot. He never promoted himself and expected the position.[/QUOTE] Disagreement! Trotsky was one of the two faces of the party for the entirety of his time in it. Infact, he was more int he public than any other leader- he made the majority of the speeches, and always appeared alongside Lenin when he gave his. He was known as the face of the party, and it was public opinion that he would receive the position- it was politics, though, that did it, combined with Stalin's growing prestige as General Secretary, not his lack of public appearance, or his lack of popularity, or his lack of pushing for it. By all accounts, he should ave gotten it and would have gotten it in any more democratic nation.
i hate to be an idiot but why does soviet russia and the USSR get more fanfare threads than any other country in point and time But yea, Trotsky was a cool dude
Actually he was a pig amongst pigs. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm#Characters[/url]
Fuckin Communists until you boys haven't lived in one of these countries with these shits for government you can't talk.
[QUOTE=redstar2424;28326183]Fuckin Communists until you boys haven't lived in one of these countries with these shits for government you can't talk.[/QUOTE] We really need to do this stuff again? Really? Every goddam thread?
[QUOTE=Jiyoon;28307522]making the country an fascist dictatorship = ruining the country[/QUOTE] not true, per se that was something they knew had to happen, actually it's one of the major steps in a transformation to communism "Dictatorship of the Proletariat"
[QUOTE=Detective P;28325053]Disagreement! Trotsky was one of the two faces of the party for the entirety of his time in it. Infact, he was more int he public than any other leader- he made the majority of the speeches, and always appeared alongside Lenin when he gave his. He was known as the face of the party, and it was public opinion that he would receive the position- it was politics, though, that did it, combined with Stalin's growing prestige as General Secretary, not his lack of public appearance, or his lack of popularity, or his lack of pushing for it. By all accounts, he should ave gotten it and would have gotten it in any more democratic nation.[/QUOTE] You're not big or clever when you act like that, and what you said was in no way a legitimate "disagreement" to my fact.
[QUOTE=Angus725;28315757]If I was in Stalin's position when Lenin died, I'd probably try and take power for myself. I you had a chance (and that chance is pretty damn high) to take over and do what ever the fuck you want with a country, you (at least I would) make a gamble and feel what unlimited power's all about >.> In Stalin and Hitler's cases, they worked...and both industrialized their countries in a fraction of the time it took the western democracies.[/QUOTE] Speak for yourself, man. I have no fucking idea how to run a country. I'm certainly not competent to be responsible for millions of people, and I think it's wrong to have an incompetent person in charge of a country. So no, given the chance, I would not take over an entire country.
[QUOTE=Dachande;28326112]i hate to be an idiot but why does soviet russia and the USSR get more fanfare threads than any other country in point and time But yea, Trotsky was a cool dude[/QUOTE] Mostly because the USSR had huge industrial changes in its time, and the fact that there wasn't much media coverage during the Cold War of what was going on there.
[QUOTE=BugsyXoX;28327349]You're not big or clever when you act like that, and what you said was in no way a legitimate "disagreement" to my fact.[/QUOTE] Big or clever wat? Now I know you said you were a Russian history student, but I've read in [url=http://www.amazon.com/Comrades-History-Communism-Robert-Service/dp/0674046994/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1298851600&sr=1-1]this book[/url] that what I said was the case (the book itself is very anti-communist but it does present alot of useful information).
[QUOTE=Detective P;28331605]Big or clever wat? Now I know you said you were a Russian history student, but I've read in [url=http://www.amazon.com/Comrades-History-Communism-Robert-Service/dp/0674046994/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1298851600&sr=1-1]this book[/url] that what I said was the case (the book itself is very anti-communist but it does present alot of useful information).[/QUOTE] You should read slightly less biased history books if you want an accurate depiction of events and why they happened.
[QUOTE=shatteredwindow;28305596]What is with commie's and mustaches/facial hair?[/QUOTE] Facial hairs make you manly.
capitalism owns
[QUOTE=Firerain;28341618]capitalism owns[/QUOTE] true dat.
I've always seen Trotsky to be a role model. He was a pretty awesome dude, favored bureaucracy and global revolution over Stalin's communism-in-one-state cop out. He fought for what he believed in but never committed any atrocities. He actually got the red army on its feet right after the revolution, Stalin knocked it down a few pegs in the purges. You should read his amazing biography, My Life, though a few details, such as his escape from Siberia, were faked to protect people.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.