• Was "Jesus" from this world?
    155 replies, posted
[QUOTE=AK'z;36467522]oops.[/QUOTE] I'm not the one claiming to be holding hands and singing kumbaya here I'm saying ideas revel in confrontation. You're sitting here pussy-footing around.
That, is something I won't deny. :-) [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] Then again, you don't seem to be happy with what you're doing.
[QUOTE=AK'z;36467742]Then again, you don't seem to be happy with what you're doing.[/QUOTE] Check your eyes, then. Discourse is what I do best. I'm rarely happen when I'm [I]not[/I] arguing for something.
That's good. As long as you feel good with what you do, then all is well. The only cause I argue for, is that people be individuals and spread their individualism.
That's a stupid cause to argue for. Individualism for individualism's sake is a colossal waste of time. The only reason individualism is worth a dime is because of the benefits of adopting an open minded stance. The only cause you're really serving is giving people a false sense of validation for rejecting rationality. Open-mindedness is a waste of time if you're not subject to reason.
[QUOTE=Robbobin;36468083]That's a stupid cause to argue for. Individualism for individualism's sake is a colossal waste of time. The only reason individualism is worth a dime is because of the benefits of adopting an open minded stance. The only cause you're really serving is giving people a false sense of validation for rejecting rationality. Open-mindedness is a waste of time if you're not subject to reason.[/QUOTE] I probably misworded my point since I'm not actually "fighting" for it. This is just me on my own doing this. If you think it's a waste of time, then that's your view. But for me, that's what I live for. I love new flavours of personality and new ideas of thinking. Through music, movies and just communicating, it makes me feel that I can experience life through more sets of eyes than just my own.
[QUOTE=AK'z;36467930]That's good. As long as you feel good with what you do, then all is well. The only cause I argue for, is that people be individuals and spread their individualism.[/QUOTE] Unless that individual revels in conflict? [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=AK'z;36468127]If you think it's a waste of time, then that's your view.[/QUOTE] "That's just, like, your opinion, man." [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] FYI this is a [I]debate[/I] board, not a circle jerk board.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36468130]Unless that individual revels in conflict?[/QUOTE] Regardless of any attributes whatsoever.
If you are literally arguing against the act of debate, you belong elsewhere.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36468130] "That's just, like, your opinion, man." FYI this is a [I]debate[/I] board, not a circle jerk board.[/QUOTE] You're right, I'm just the peace-keeper then. [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lankist;36468137]If you are literally arguing against the act of debate, you belong elsewhere.[/QUOTE] could you tell me where that is.
You don't have a view worth having unless you're willing to defend it. You are [I]not[/I] a peace-keeper. Your whole view of debate is itself incredibly destructive to the whole practice. If someone's using shitty logic and I've noticed it, I owe it to them to fucking tell them so they can correct it or drop their conclusion, and I hope anyone else would do the same. You're just being falsely sanctimonious by trying to be so sensitive and respectful of people's bullshit.
First you tell me I have no cause and that I'm weak, then you say what I'm doing is destructive? Let me figure this bit out, hold on a second. [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] Hmm, I don't sense I'm causing people pain.
[QUOTE=AK'z;36468144]could you tell me where that is.[/QUOTE] Fats Threads.
[QUOTE=AK'z;36468210]First you tell me I have no cause and that I'm weak, then you say what I'm doing is destructive? Let me figure this bit out, hold on a second. [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] Hmm, I don't sense I'm causing people pain.[/QUOTE] It's destructive to the philosophical method because you're falsely validating people's irrational beliefs. If you give a damn about truth, you'd be arguing with tooth and claw that rationality is everything. Individualism is a great thing, as long as it actually begins to conform with rationality, or at least [I]tries[/I] to conform with rationality.
Well you can't [I]know[/I] that they're irrational. I see no point in being destructive when these people feel they can live a good life by abiding by their thoughts. Why do they need to agree with Robbobin in order to be accepted in society?
They don't need to agree with me. I'm not particularly bothered about them concluding that god exists or whatever. All I really care about, as a philosopher, is whether or not people are willing to defend their views with rational arguments. Otherwise I won't accept that their opinion is valuable or respectable. Obviously there's nothing I can do about it since they won't listen to reason, but it does degrade my opinion of them since they lack integrity. Integrity is very important.
[QUOTE=Robbobin;36468263]If you give a damn about truth.[/QUOTE] Here's the reality. You don't [I]know[/I] the truth, and neither to I. [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Robbobin;36468311]All I really care about, as a philosopher.[/QUOTE] You give off the vibe that you are a "rationalist" or "realist". I have no strong interests in discussing those ideas, since I made up my mind about things being real since I was a child. However, having developed interests, I feel the need to go beyond that and make it on my own steam.
Just because I don't know the truth for certain, it doesn't mean I know when someone is betraying reason. Sure, I don't [I]know[/I] if there's not some god entity (actually, in some senses I think I am sure there isn't, but that's another debate), but I know that there are a great deal of stupid, invalid arguments motivating the existence of god, that give no genuine reason to believe it. I'm not going to respect someone's belief unless it's subject to some sort of reason. [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=AK'z;36468315]You give off the vibe that you are a "rationalist" or "realist". I have no strong interests in discussing those ideas, since I made up my mind about things being real since I was a child. However, having developed interests, I feel the need to go beyond that and make it on my own steam.[/QUOTE] I'm not a rationalist; I'm an empiricist. Don't really know where I stand on realism. However I do give absolute authority to rationality because if you don't, there's literally no point in participating in debate.
The only reason they have to give for me to respect them, is that they feel they need to live a good life in order to believe it. Not saying this is the definitive way to look at things, but that's my view. You are in a different spectrum of thinking, reminds me of "Thunderfoot". [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Robbobin;36468347]I'm an empiricist[/QUOTE] let me look this word up [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] okay, I don't see how this is different to what others do.
Don't you think rational people are prone to leading better lives than people with loads irrational, likely false beliefs? The more rational you are, the more prone you are to understanding how the world is put together, and how to interact with it to get what you want from it. If you have loads of irrational beliefs you just picked up from your parents or society at large, all you're doing is inheriting a shitload of totally arbitrary values that fail to represent you as a person whatsoever. The most fulfilled people are the ones who have their own values, based on their own observations on the world. Not the ones who just arbitrarily select one system of belief and all of their shitty irrational baggage and arbitrary values.
[QUOTE=Robbobin;36468685]Don't you think rational people are prone to leading better lives than people with loads irrational, likely false beliefs? The more rational you are, the more prone you are to understanding how the world is put together, and how to interact with it to get what you want from it. If you have loads of irrational beliefs you just picked up from your parents or society at large, all you're doing is inheriting a shitload of totally arbitrary values that fail to represent you as a person whatsoever. The most fulfilled people are the ones who have their own values, based on their own observations on the world. Not the ones who just arbitrarily select one system of belief and all of their shitty irrational baggage and arbitrary values.[/QUOTE] Subjective opinions are not arguable amongst others for the definition of betters lives, pal. Explain your temperament to a buddhist monk and he'll tell you the error of your ways. And by ways, I mean your anger for why the world should be "rational/real" in the way they perceive their lives. You express that you don't want to force people, yet that's all you want to do. [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] I know perfectly well that you [I]think you know[/I] what a "good life" is. How about you accept others can live "good lives" differently to how you do.
Engaging in philosophical discussion is not force, mate. In fact, discussion is the one thing the world needs to be a more peaceful place. I don't think there's many disputes that can't be resolved by sitting in a room and talking it out, rationally. What's with sanctimonious people always insisting that every time you're arguing for a point that you're somehow angry? Buddhists are taught to practice rationality. That's why part of their noble eightfold path is dṛṣṭi (ditthi): viewing reality as it is, not just as it appears to be. They adopt the philosophical method as much as anyone should. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism#Noble_Eightfold_Path[/url]
Okay, now I've seen a different side of you. Let me think a bit. [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] I have great respect for the improving of life via the mind. [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] Well it's now come to my attention that you are capable of embracing ideas that adhere to your own personal beliefs. This I can understand and praise. You're not like the Lankists and for this reason, I need to draw back my judgements a bit further away from the "singular path" views. What other religious/non-religious philosophies do you embrace?
All of my philosophical beliefs are built entirely out of my best rational judgements (which are constantly improving, hopefully indefinitely since I want to lecture philosophy). That's the only way you can have a view that's remotely respectable and interesting. But anyway, atheism, anarchism, functionalism of the mind (with a sensitivity to mind-brain identity theory), existentialism (this one's less about rationality and more about a certain feeling about living), sometimes objectivism (minus the worship of industrialists), I've flirted with the idea of modal realism but I can't settle on a conclusion. All of these views and the opposing views are incredibly interesting and well motivated, but they were synthesized out of literally a couple of thousand years of [I]constant[/I] bombardment from philosophical discussion. Your views aren't interesting, respectable or in any sense decent, unless they're defensible. The best way to respect a philosophy is to attack the absolute shit out of it and see if it still stands; not to just idly stroke it and think how great it is that there's so much diversity of undeveloped, random assumptions about the world.
Well, you definitely have done the research. You might probably have a degree in Philosophy for all I know. :v: However much you think you could preach "objectivism", I've already made my mind up to see it from people's perspectives and experiences. You may think you have developed "completeness" in your philosophy, but that's only on the surface and I'm afraid unless you can relate with what others feel, I don't see there being much in terms of any more development. If you want respect, you can have it. If you want peace of mind, then other than closing your eyes and meditating, you could open your eyes try embracing how others live.
I'll have a degree in it in exactly a year and a day.
[QUOTE=Robbobin;36469672]I'll have a degree in it in exactly a year and a day.[/QUOTE] Good luck, sir. How's the experience?
Absolutely amazing. Enough to motivate me to want to lecture it for a living, anyway. I fear we've derailed this thread considerably now! :v:
[QUOTE=Robbobin;36469757]Absolutely amazing. Enough to motivate me to want to lecture it for a living, anyway. [/QUOTE] That's fantastic. Seeing as you give vibes of a well-spoken person, I shouldn't doubt that it will happen for you. As for derailment, I think Jesus can give it a rest and let us move on.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36467768]Check your eyes, then. Discourse is what I do best. I'm rarely happen when I'm [I]not[/I] arguing for something.[/QUOTE] I may be angry when I'm arguing with a fucking moron, but when somebody has so little conviction to an idea that they refuse to argue for it, that pisses me off so fucking much more. Be a fucking man and stand up for your beliefs
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