• The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Retrospective
    81 replies, posted
He kind of loses me instantly with the whole "prisoner bad for RP", like its very easy to set up a high morale character as a guy who had to take the fall for something or was framed for something. Or even chose to take the fall because he has such high morals. I don't think I will watch the whole thing, this start was just direct into nitpicking, and he's framed it like recent video essay trends etc and hope people will listen to him just for the fact he has a lot of fancy words to dress his topic with. There are points to be made, absolutely, but if you want to go into the gritty of criticising something then stick to that, don't devalue yourself with nitpicking.
I'm a bit disappointed no one has brought up THAT npc yet. You know the one, I shouldn't have to tell you.
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;52415597]I'm a bit disappointed no one has brought up THAT npc yet. You know the one, I shouldn't have to tell you.[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;G1KAtuiKfL8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1KAtuiKfL8[/video] Also for me Oblivion is up there with Half-Life and Half-Life 2 when it comes to fond memories of PC gaming
[QUOTE=Captain;52415364]Been a long time since I last played Skyrim's Thief Guild, but I remember hating it since you weren't really thieves, but just a group of assholes extorting the town. While that isn't inherently bad, I much preferred the the how the Thieves Guild actually felt like a secret group of thieves stealing from people. That and I didn't really like how you[sp]pretty much just give your soul to Nocturne or something.[/sp]That just kinda felt weird to me. But like I said, I don't remember much of Skyrim's TG since I only did it once years ago.[/QUOTE] The skyrim thieves guild [I]would[/I] be the worst in the game if it weren't for dawnguard. But vanilla it's still the worst, by far. Shit start, shit end, the actual somewhat interesting thievery quests are hidden behind walls of random radiant quests (not even letting you which city to go to for a job despite tying cities to quests), grinding those out gives you next to nothing interesting, and the god damn superhero club shit with that retarded Nocturnal nonsense that you can't refuse or dodge out of. It's the [I]only[/I] vanilla quest that doesn't let you back out of a deal with a Daedra. You can effectively avoid every other one, and even if you complete the quests you can typically toss the artifact in a ditch and tell the prince to go fuck himself as you refuse to become their champion. But nocturnal ? nope, locked onto that path, fuck you, can't escape it.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52415936]The skyrim thieves guild [I]would[/I] be the worst in the game if it weren't for dawnguard. But vanilla it's still the worst, by far. Shit start, shit end, the actual somewhat interesting thievery quests are hidden behind walls of random radiant quests (not even letting you which city to go to for a job despite tying cities to quests), grinding those out gives you next to nothing interesting, and the god damn superhero club shit with that retarded Nocturnal nonsense that you can't refuse or dodge out of. It's the [I]only[/I] vanilla quest that doesn't let you back out of a deal with a Daedra. You can effectively avoid every other one, and even if you complete the quests you can typically toss the artifact in a ditch and tell the prince to go fuck himself as you refuse to become their champion. But nocturnal ? nope, locked onto that path, fuck you, can't escape it.[/QUOTE] Shamus Young did a [url=http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=14422]fantastically thorough explanation[/url] of how shit Skyrim's TG questline was and why.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;52415499]I think Oblivion is the only American game I can think of that could qualify as having "Euro-jank". A lot of what went into the game seems more like things they thought would be cool, rather than things which really work or would be marketable.[/QUOTE] Pretty much, the story of what happened with Oblivion, from a lot of accounts, is a story of Bethesda wanting to implement a lot of cool shit to enhance the game over Morrowind. The problem is, they wanted to put it on the new and shiny Xbox 360 (whose specs were still up in the air at the time) and they were implementing all of these features on high end PCs for the time. As such, they had to strip a lot of things back when the actual specs for the 360 were revealed. Full on Radiant AI was one of the first things to go (and probably would've been tweaked heavily anyway given all the stories about NPCs killing other NPCs over petty shit, which was probably the reason why we got essential NPCs), proper soft shadows (on DX9 mind you) after that. I remember hearing about how cities may have actually been fully open at some point, but I know they weren't in that old video floating around. You also have to remember that Oblivion was actually delayed. It was meant to be a launch title for the Xbox 360, but due to "development issues", it had to be delayed by almost 6 months. I have no doubt in my mind that Bethesda was still just trying to get the damn thing to run well on console. It is kind of sad to compare the game we have now to the game they originally showed off, but at the same time, the Oblivion we have now really is something special. You can tell that, even with all of its jank and limited resources (such as voice actors), Bethesda were really trying their best to accomplish something great. They had a real ambition and passion for it that maybe goes just short of the same drive Morrowind had behind it. And hell, Oblivion still has some amazing moments in it even with all the jank. [QUOTE=Rixxz2;52415682][video=youtube;G1KAtuiKfL8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1KAtuiKfL8[/video] Also for me Oblivion is up there with Half-Life and Half-Life 2 when it comes to fond memories of PC gaming[/QUOTE] It was the game that got me back into PC gaming at a later age. I had the game originally on Xbox 360, and stumbled across many videos on early Youtube showcasing a bunch of shit that you could do with mods on the PC version that just weren't possible on console. Also, Oblivion machinima. Who here remembers the early days of Youtube and Oblivion machinima? Series like Orcblivion, The Drunk Argonian, etc. That shit was my jam in my late middle school/early high school days.
I should beat play Oblivion one day. I bought it in one of the earliest holiday Steam sales and never so much as installed it. Haven't beaten Skyrim either :v:
I listened to this over the course of a couple days, he makes a fair few good points but overall he came off as someone who tried to make a knock-off matthewmatosis video. Also his constant mispronouncing of words absolutely did my tits in, who learns to say vague like that? It just makes it seem like he tried using a bunch of words he's never actually heard out loud before.
Oblivion is what got me into PC gaming, I remember sitting down and watching my friend play the inferior 360 version and I thought it was the coolest shit that you could get locked up in jail or join the Dark Brotherhood. After I left his house I begged my mother to take me to Wal-Mart so I could buy it :v: It will probably be the last RPG Beth made that really pushed the envelope for gaming in general. Everything they make now just feels lazy and more shallow every release.
i actually like oblivion the best bite me I mean sure its probably rose-coloured glasses or whatever but there is really no other game I spent as many hours, really learned the interworkings of the mechanics, and just all around had so many memorable experiences as Oblivion. Oblivion is the game to this day I go back to at times and can spend more than just 45 minutes in before I just exit out. I play it even after so many hours and playthroughs I end up losing quite abit of time in. It all still feels somewhat fresh and I still end up finding new things. I go back to it, the world still seems mysterous. Skyrim? I get bored rather quick and its just eye candy to me. I played maybe 5 playthroughs of Skyrim and I just get bored quick so the playthroughs end up becoming slow progressions. For a game that has so many flaws, its a game that to me will always hold a special place in my heart. I think the flaws are what make it so good. The bad faces, the crazy AI, the glitches, and even the skill system were all so charming to me. I felt weak maybe at levels 3-7 in pretty much all play throughs but you always eventually pick back up on the power curve around 8/9 despite what you are grinding/leveling that it's not that bad. To put it simply, Oblivion for all its flaws is incredibly memorable and I cannot think of any game that left such a strange mystical impression on me as that game. It's essentially just one big, wacky DnD campaign that you're not supposed to take seriously and just have fun. This guy nitpicks too much I think and while he raises valid points, its trashing the game for reasons that can and have been mostly ignored. Skyrim I think has many more flaws that are much more detrimental. If a game isn't memorable, then why praise it? Skyrim is a fine game, sure. Yet nothing really stood out. It tried to be so grand and ~epic~ but it was about as shallow as a dried basin for me. Too many world ending enemies and whatnot. So much emphasis on being the saviour of the world x4 and too much attempt at being a badass. Oblivion you were just some prisoner who goes around working for people and then [sp]helps a dude become a dragon to save the world.[/sp] You're never really the all-saviour. Skyrim you're that person like four times. Only time you're some sort of world saviour is [sp] KoTN, even then you're just stopping Umriel who was known to not really be a trouble that great. Same for Shivering Isles, the Greymarch wasn't an end of days thing it was just Sheogorath wanting to stop the cycle.[/sp]
[QUOTE=eatdembeanz;52416131]Shamus Young did a [url=http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=14422]fantastically thorough explanation[/url] of how shit Skyrim's TG questline was and why.[/QUOTE] He's got a few things wrong. The the paralysis arrow for instance. You [I]can[/I] make poison that induces paralysis in he vanilla game, via alchemy. That and the dwemer tablet thing. It didn't have to translate falmer directly into modern day language, it could have been any other amount of languages which were around and are still around in the lore. Ancient Falmer specifically is one of the few languages in that area that's truly lost, a scholar or a mage could easily know how to translate from some other dead tongue if they have something akin to a rosetta stone, which is what the stone tablet is obviously meant to be. He also makes a big fuss out of the doors when the whole point is that Mercer's using the skeleton key to breach reality itself and find [I]another[/I] opening into the vault. He's not using the doors, he doesn't have to anymore. Still an excellent showcase of why the whole questline's fucking stupid however
[QUOTE=General;52411268]Has anyone went back to oblivion? I haven't played it since it came out[/QUOTE] it's one of the games i go back to every 2 years or so, meanwhile I haven't been able to play skyrim after my first play through when it first came out, not that i haven't tried [editline]3rd July 2017[/editline] personally I feel like oblivion is vastly superior to Skyrim, while morrowind is too different to compare it to the later entries (it's pretty fucking great though) Not to say that Skyrim isn't entirely without merit, for example as said it doesn't rail you to a class (and I personally really hate it, it just makes me think of diehard DnD fans defending it's [I]awful[/I] mechanics fanatically), although the leveling system as a whole was a bit too dumbed down.
I actually started another Oblivion playthrough right now, mostly because one of my friends is playing through both Skyrim and Morrowind, so I figured I'd join him. The only caveat is, he's playing through them both straight vanilla, so besides the Unofficial Patch, I'm also going through Oblivion straight vanilla. For probably the first time since playing it on the Xbox 360 back in the day. I've actually had a lot of fun so far.
[QUOTE=Rahu X;52428155]I actually started another Oblivion playthrough right now, mostly because one of my friends is playing through both Skyrim and Morrowind, so I figured I'd join him. The only caveat is, he's playing through them both straight vanilla, so besides the Unofficial Patch, I'm also going through Oblivion straight vanilla. For probably the first time since playing it on the Xbox 360 back in the day. I've actually had a lot of fun so far.[/QUOTE] Vanilla oblivion is great for all the wrong reasons. For example, Alchemy is incredibly OP. Or being a stealth archer. But I think the potential for having skills reach demi-god level is very important in RPG's and it is [I]tremendous[/I] fun, and one of the reasons Morrowind is still a viable choice to this day. It's another thing I didn't like about Skyrim, it did bottleneck the players abilities in an attempt to seem more balanced/polished. I think it did a lot more harm than good. [editline]3rd July 2017[/editline] Another noteworthy thing is that most of Oblivions flaws can be fixed by mods, while you can't really expect modders to redo all the Skyrim faction quests which are awfully short and lacking, for example.
I like the idea of DemiGod potential in RPGS but to be achieved through hardwork and not handed to you which I think oblivion did well . The closest I've seen people do to revamp factions was just add filler between quests with context radiant quests which atwast makes me feel more smooth
I couldn't disagree more with what he says about speed. Skyrim was missing it so bad. [editline]4th July 2017[/editline] All in all while I certainly agree with his criticism on Oblivions leveling system, I absolutely disagree with his praise on Skyrims system, and him pulling the rose tinted glasses card just adds insult to injury. Not that Skyrims system is badly designed, not by any means. It's just that it's design philosophy is inherently unappealing to me, at least in a series that's supposed to be an RPG. [editline]4th July 2017[/editline] And I certainly do not agree with the Radiant AI being a bad idea. That's one of the greatest things in gaming, and I wish more games were able to do something like it. No system like it has been developed since, only simplified versions of it, even in Beth's later games. It being not refined is not a good reason to get rid of it. It would merely need evolution, while it got the opposite. The Witcher 3 for example felt so fake and static that I couldn't bring myself to finishing it. [editline]4th July 2017[/editline] Honestly seems like I inherently disagree philosophically with the guy as far as video games go. Although it is odd how first he disses the Radiant AI system for being unnecessary and better off removed, and then he gasps at how important things lying on shelves are. He's a bit inconsistent.
I think Radiant AI did wonders for the game even if it wasn't implemented to it's fullest potential. It was cut down a lot during development but it still created a design philosophy that gave the game a very unique feel and gave the quest designers a lot to work with. Even though radiant AI is mostly based around NPC schedules, it seems like this sprung a lot of great quest ideas considering some of the game's best and most interesting quests use this mechanic in small and simple ways. I do kinda wish they had a little hidden button in the creation kit that just unlocked radiant AI's full potential. Hearing dev stories about farmers killing shopkeepers for hoes so they can tend to their fields is just mad.
[QUOTE=cdr248;52431931]I do kinda wish they had a little hidden button in the creation kit that just unlocked radiant AI's full potential. Hearing dev stories about farmers killing shopkeepers for hoes so they can tend to their fields is just mad.[/QUOTE] One of the stories that I have heard is also how prison guards after running out of food, would go to the cells and slaughter the prisoners for their food. That's just so insanely ridiculous. Would have made for an interesting mod where the daedra have full-on invaded Cyrodill and everyone would be fending for themselves.
Radiant AI is an absolute disaster in-game, but it does do what it set out to do in the first place. The NPCs certainly have interesting priorities (like checking on dead bodies while giving chase), but it's half the charm I guess. It certainly improved in future games where they took out behaviours that just weren't working. Atleast to me their other games still felt alive within video game boundaries.
my favourite thing to do in oblivion was drink paralysis potions and slide down mountains at mach 5 or use the angry spells to just make people in the street furious
Still making my way through this video, I don'g really agree with his view on setting either. I don't agree either with that TES is supposed to be netural, or with his claim that Skyrim is neutral. Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim each have their own distinctive style, and I wouldn't call any of them neutral. I think the idyllic theme is really charming in Oblivion, if a bit generic.
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