[QUOTE=Cone;42512802]so you mean to tell me that that paragraph you wrote about people who you've decided in your infinite manly wisdom are completely devoid of "confidence, honor and dignity" wasn't just you bitching tirelessly about people you just happen to find unpleasant for no reason[/QUOTE]
Yes.
Read:
[QUOTE]as of late I've been wondering what are the values and expectations of a modern Man in society these days.[/QUOTE]
And I expected to see replies like:
[QUOTE=Boaraes;42512069]Not being afraid of your own emotions and not caring what the social stigma says.
If you want to be a man then you gotta learn how to not be cooped up in some socially-crafted cage for the sake of "image" and do what makes you feel like yourself.
If you want to dye your hair or what the fuck ever, go for it. It's more "unmanly" to let people control you than dyeing your hair. Fuck me, it's not just whether or not it's manly, it's whether or not it's being a human being. This applies to everyone.[/QUOTE]
Which would expand my own unrefined opinion about an "issue" I just started to think hours ago.
You seem to be awfully upset and projecting a lot, have I offended you?
[QUOTE=HammeredDog;42512843]You seem to be awfully upset and projecting a lot, have I offended you?[/QUOTE]
i'm not offended i just think that it's dumb that you're arbitrarily defining people as unmasculine and thus lacking positive qualities before you even talk to them. it's a really bad, asocial habit to get into and it's definitely not good in any way
[editline]13th October[/editline]
i mean some random guy who dyes his hair colors that he likes is probably a lot happier than someone who lets preconceived notions about gender and sex control his life
Op u seem to be thinking a lot about this maybe u just want to get into Henry Fonda's panties. U ever think of that as a possibility?
[QUOTE=HammeredDog;42512556]
The type I described was rather psychological, not physical. I don't see what posting a picture of me would accomplish, but I've nothing to lose so have it anyway. I don't have face shots of me on this computer.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pIx2XFT.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
wearing a towel like that is a key indicator of having been heavily feminized
[editline]13th October 2013[/editline]
plus you don't seem to have much body hair which points to low testosterone, something that's biologically pretty unmanly
This was actually a semi-serious reply, if you want to consider the hormones associated with being biologically male as being an indicator of manliness. I consider gender roles to by and large be bullshit so the physiological differences are the only ones I really put any stock in.
Hey TCB I like your avatar.
To be a man you have to be manly. I'm not. I'm a male, but I'm not a man. I've got long hair and someone once told me that men shouldn't have long hair. That doesn't apply to me because I'm not a man. I'm male, yes, but not a man because I'm not manly.
I don't see any problem with long hair.
Being manly is being tall, with low fat, lots of muscle, muscular strong physique. Having a deep voice with lots of body hair. Hairy chest, hairy legs and arms. Have a full proper beard. Don't whine or complain, that's being pathetic and unmanly. A man should have a masculine face, look and physique. Low muscle or high fat is unmanly. High muscle and low fat is manly/masculine.
[QUOTE=mrphilosopher;42513022]I've got long hair and someone once told me that men shouldn't have long hair.[/QUOTE]
Tell that to [b]Thor[/b]
[QUOTE=mrphilosopher;42513022]Hey TCB I like your avatar.
To be a man you have to be manly. I'm not. I'm a male, but I'm not a man. I've got long hair and someone once told me that men shouldn't have long hair. That doesn't apply to me because I'm not a man. I'm male, yes, but not a man because I'm not manly.
I don't see any problem with long hair.
Being manly is being tall, with low fat, lots of muscle, muscular strong physique. Having a deep voice with lots of body hair. Hairy chest, hairy legs and arms. Have a full proper beard. Don't whine or complain, that's being pathetic and unmanly. A man should have a masculine face, look and physique. Low muscle or high fat is unmanly. High muscle and low fat is manly/masculine.[/QUOTE]
wot
[QUOTE=HammeredDog;42512556]
-snip-[/QUOTE]
Oh no, give those legs back to the paraplegic child you stole them from.
[QUOTE=HammeredDog;42508903]You know, given the fact I'm slightly old-fashioned when it comes to things like this and at times sentimental, as of late I've been wondering what are the values and expectations of a modern Man in society these days.
[IMG]http://peipei1212.edublogs.org/files/2012/12/Juror-8-1sg56ls.jpg[/IMG]
Just yesterday I watched "12 Angry Men". It's a movie from 1957, that involves a full-male cast and while all the characters have very varied personalities (you could say each of them are an archetype of something), they all share something in common: they all have that old-school masculinity (yeah, even Juror #2).
And then I though of what I see everyday. Chubby, greasy fedoralords with kyphosis, lordosis, guys that dye their hair red or blue, skinny hipster kids, males whining about their troublesome relationship and being pussywhipped. Confidence, honor and dignity (which are in my humble opinion are some of the most valuable things one can have), you don't see those anymore. Maybe just three guys out of ten.
What's up with this, are we really feminized to this point? Or do you call this progress? Or am I an artifact, still stuck in 20th century?
[sp]yeah, I checked my CIS privilige this morning[/sp][/QUOTE]
Visual indicators does not a man make. Yes people are living in way past their means lately, which leads to some of things that apparently trouble you, as superficial as they are.
The difference between a [I]man[/I] and a [I]boy[/I] is very simple, and has nothing to do with maturity or gender roles.
A [I]boy[/I] talks about all the shit he's going to do.
A [I]man[/I] goes out into the world and handles his business and does not brag about it.
A [I]boy[/I] commits actions he feels are within his right(s).
A [I]man[/I] commits to the [I]consequences[/I] of his actions and owns them.
That's the difference.
Anything else is posturing or cultural bias/preference.
Well, I personally think men should act how they want and it's very unfair to punish people just because they don't fit in with your idealistic view of how they should be.
If some men want to be 'feminized' or die their hair, why shouldn't they? What other people do with themselves does not affect you in the slightest and the whole world isn't going to change just because you don't personally like it.
Being a man is simply doing what YOU want and carrying yourself with respect for doing it. Everyone has a different idea of what being 'manly' is, just like everyone has a different idea of what (for example) their ideal jacket would look like. So what if someone's idea of being manly is going to the gym 4x a week, banging loads of girls and driving a muscle car, equally who cares if someone thinks being manly is just having a good job and caring for his family?
The drama and arguing in this thread is stupid.
Oh, and if anyone is interested in 'manly activities and ways to act', I suggest this site; [url]http://www.artofmanliness.com/[/url]. Its got a lot of useful info on there, even if you don't buy into their idea of what is manly.
Fuck masculinity, fuck femininity, fuck gender roles.
Do what you want, let other people do what they want. Who the fuck cares.
Jesus why is that so hard to grasp?
[editline]14th October 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=27X;42515211]Visual indicators does not a man make. Yes people are living in way past their means lately, which leads to some of things that apparently trouble you, as superfiical as they are.
The difference between a [I]man[/I] and a [I]boy[/I] is very simple, and has nothing to do with maturity or gender roles.
A [I]boy[/I] talks about all the shit he's going to do.
A [I]man[/I] goes out into the world and handles his business and does not brag about it.
A [I]boy[/I] commits actions he feels are within his right(s).
A [I]man[/I] commits to the [I]consequences[/I] of his actions and owns them.
That's the difference.
Anything else is posturing or cultural bias/preference.[/QUOTE]
But by using the word manly you're making it about gender roles. That's not "manly" that's just responsibility and maturity. Women do that, transgendered people do that. Hell even some kids do that.
it's obviously all in the beard
[QUOTE=HammeredDog;42512743]Sorry, but no one's bitching or complaining here. And I'm not having issues with anyone. I think I already stated before I wouldn't really give a damn if a guy's a bitch. I'd smirk at worst. I guess that make's me a dickhead, but that's my own problem and I'll deal with it.[/QUOTE]
damn im glad theres another social alpha male on this forum full of nerds. the other day i saw some kid wearing skinny jeans, and i explained to him how big of a bitch beta he was, and how he should follow examples of strong men such as ronald reagan. i then smirked and told him if he wanted to get ANY pussy he better not wear gay ass faggot skinny jeans.
Standing up for one's beliefs.
From what I gather you haven't had much input on this asides from your own thoughts since you've just recently gotten to contemplating the whole topic, so don't take the opinions of these fellas too into heart. While they do have sound logic, they also miss the point where you say you've only recently begun thinking of this. People's opinions don't change overnight (often anyway) and you'll need time to process this information to be all right with it, just like anyone else.
Personally I see no man or woman, I see a person. I've gotten so absolutely tired of [U]most[/U] people separating into smaller and smaller groups in a desperate attempt to make themselves unique. [U]Most[/U] fail to realize their uniqueness as a species, their uniqueness as a person and their uniqueness as a physical being...unless you're an identical twin in which case ignore that last part :v:
I just feel that unison as a species would give us much more good in the long run. We've already seen many steps taken towards this goal. Since it's a pretty new concept in the larger scheme of things our first ideas for reaching it such as the European Union and very universally known languages such as English have been shoddy and unsteady and seriously far from perfect. But it's this kind of trying and failing and then trying again that keeps the train rolling and keeps us doing something.
If we didn't want to advance and invent new things and better ourselves as a species, we would've sticked with hunting and gathering. To me, the more retro philosophy of what makes a man and what makes a woman is in its foundation simply one of the last remnants of instinctive thinking. Something that we can grow out of and that we nearly completely find useless (however instinct, as big of a pain as it might be, shouldn't be completely discarded).
Just my two cents regarding this. Remember that we're not machines. We don't learn a completely new thing in 5 minutes like machines install a program. We need time, and the larger a concept to realize the more time we need. This is a big thing and as such you should prepare to think about this for weeks, months, maybe even years depending on how in-depth you want to get with this. It's a good life choice to think about this now rather than later, too. I'm not trying to patronizing or anything, I'm trying to be supportive.
Who cares let people live the way they want. Manly or not it's your life and you decide how to live it. Meanwhile I'll live mine how I want to live it.
Hi OP, I've tried to answer your question as best as I could in my own way, based upon my personal view, would you care to let me know if I understood you correctly, and whether or not you agree? I think this is a really exiting topic, actually
Instead of asking "What makes a man" I ask myself "what's a human." Society has developed a whole lot on the gender role front, and since it's such a personal issue, we don't see it in a society based on observations of behavior and fashion. It's only when questions like this surface and people take an interest in explaining their personal view we really can get some semblance of understanding the general attitude of the people around us.
Classifying people based on their gender is, as said, less relevant in our western society than it was 40-70 years ago. I think I get what you're saying though OP, you observe what you experience as a shift in the general character of the populace, and by comparing it to what you know of times past, you conclude that there has been some change. This is understandable, but you have to remember to see both the future and past in context of the times themselves. "Old fashioned" masculine characteristics were required of men because of the social structure and current events of their time, and also a result (strictly IMO) of the view of females in that society. There was a bigger focus on the differences of men and women, and this lead to the definition of manliness always having to juxtapose femininity. When you view 50% of the population as "the other" you learn to define yourself solely in relation to this.
What I think we're seeing in our society today is an increased amount of men who define their masculinity, not relative to females, but rather based on an internal set of morals and ideals that represent you as a masculine individual, these internal ideas being totally separate from what we usually defined as "manly."
You have to consider that we don't know if men in the fifties were comfortable with their role in society, and the expectations social norms put on them. If their society had as strong a focus on individuality as ours is today, do you think they still would behave like they did? I think not, but that's just my opinion.
A sword in hand, drenched with the blood of the enemy.
A man is a person who puts others before him and isn't an asshole and actually fights a good cause
Someone who can support himself, comfortable around all kinds of people (not a social outcast), not afraid to try new things and push their comfort zone.
Women like hard men tough guys.
They don't like me because I'm a pussy.
The movie Jeremiah Johnson
[QUOTE=mrphilosopher;42519833]Women like hard men tough guys.
They don't like me because I'm a pussy.[/QUOTE]
so
does that mean i can put my penis in you?
It means you can beat me up because I'm a pussy cumstain faggot.
Punch me and I'll be crying on the floor like the pathetic faggot I am.
I'm not man enough. The bigger man walks away? The pussy walks away. I'd walk away as I'm a pansy faggot.
My god this is fucking hilarious.
I see some really sensible replies have come out, particularly from Green and xeo xeo.
I never like to explain myself, I think it's stupid and unnecessary, but I'll still put this out, just because maybe someone feels the same way. You know, I like to form my own opinions, however I realize they are often faulty or robust. So a good discussion is usually lovely as it can do good impact on what I (or anyone for that matter, not stubborn as a mule) think and polish arguments and reasoning, even twist core points of opinions.
That being said, I find it wiser to refine previously mentioned things on an anonymous forum rather than preconceptually, unnecessarily insult someone.
I still hold some of my points, but I've found known amount of reason in this thread.
this thread is painful to read
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