Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
5,003 replies, posted
I just like how this petition has them all scared and defensive. The backpedalling has been monstrous.
Really, the SVU episode put them on the defensive because it forced them to see the fruition of their insane remarks. But seeing that major developers are taking a stand against them, they're in full panic to try and salvage themselves. They're just too stupid and proud however to actually admit their fault in everything, and keep trying to spin it around at everyone else, including the developers. They're so convinced that the games industry exists because of them and to serve them, they think they are the most important part of the industry.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47180039]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/m7ePzmY.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
And who the fuck is Charles Tan? lmfao
Am I the only one who legitimately thinks AGG/SJW is cult-like? Saw a few posts on 8chan talking about it yesterday and I went ahead and checked for myself. Here's what I found:
[QUOTE]The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment. [B]✔ - Anita, Quinn, Wu, etc.[/B]
The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members. [B]✔[/B]
The group is preoccupied with making money. [B]✔ - Anita, Quinn, Wu, etc. (Patreon $$$)[/B]
Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. [B]✔ - /r/GamerGhazi, hugboxes, etc.[/B]
Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s). [B]X - Innocent of this one, I suppose.[/B]
The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members [B]should think, act, and feel[/B] (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth). [B]✔ - A lot of AGG is pretty much people telling other people what to do.[/B]
The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity). [B]✔ - Anita, Quinn, Wu, etc.[/B]
The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society. [B]✔ - Probably one of the most notable things about AGG in general.[/B]
The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations). [B]✔[/B]
The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities). [B]✔ - Doxxing, death threats, etc.[/B]
The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them. [B]✔ - "Agree with me or you're a misogynist-racist-people-hater!"[/B]
Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group. [B]✔ - While debatable, I've heard numerous stories of people cutting off ties due to Facebook posts, tweets, etc.[/B]
Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group. [B]✔ - Debatable, but I'm counting it.[/B]
Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. [B]✔ - Encouraged, definitely. There are a lot of AGG/SJW hugboxes in which cult-like mentality is spread.[/B]
[QUOTE][B]Final Score: 13/14 Cult-Defining Characteristics[/B][/QUOTE]
[I]Source: American Family Foundation[/I][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mattk50;47180015]Is there something about thick curvy rimmed glasses that causes brain damage?[/QUOTE]
Fragmented field of view, rimless gives you less tunnel vision.
[QUOTE=Mattk50;47180015]Is there something about thick curvy rimmed glasses that causes brain damage?[/QUOTE]
dont talk shit about buddy holly
[QUOTE=Monkah;47180544]Am I the only one who legitimately thinks AGG/SJW is cult-like? Saw a few posts on 8chan talking about it yesterday and I went ahead and checked for myself. Here's what I found:[/QUOTE]
I've posted this before, but [url=http://i.imgur.com/lnQMUdm.png]yes[/url], and I've seen this shit myself with my sister.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47180039]Anyways, my new art piece "privileged"
[t]http://i.imgur.com/m7ePzmY.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
Non-privileged people are privileged because they're the only group of people that can call out other people's privilege and feel morally superior for it.
[QUOTE=Monkah;47180544]Am I the only one who legitimately thinks AGG/SJW is cult-like? Saw a few posts on 8chan talking about it yesterday and I went ahead and checked for myself.[/QUOTE]
This is a bit off topic but I sorta agree. I've seen some tumblr posts where people rant around how tumblr has opened their eyes and they can no longer connect with friends or family and are afraid to go outside and tumblr is a 'safe haven' where they just want to stay, it strikes me as kinda cult-like.
The key difference though is it's self-spreading and has no structure. Cults have leaders, recruiters, objectives, etc. Social Justice (for lack of a better term) has none of those, it's just a hugbox that vulnerable people get trapped in and end up pushing away their real friends.
since my original post was late, heres another:
Gamejournopro people who got fired or changed their job
[url]https://medium.com/@A_PLANT_/gamejournopros-who-left-changed-their-job-since-the-leak-43adafbaff59[/url]
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47180760]Non-privileged people are privileged because they're the only group of people that can call out other people's privilege and feel morally superior for it.[/QUOTE]
Additionally I'm honestly impressed people like that found a way to tell women to shut up while still feeling and being accepted by their peers as good feminists. Who ever came up with "internal misogyny" is a huge piece of shit, but a smart piece of shit.
[QUOTE=mooman1080;47181116]Who ever came up with "internal misogyny" is a huge piece of shit, but a smart piece of shit.[/QUOTE]
More like they have a dumb entourage. Whoever sees that concept without thinking it's extremely questionable is probably a feminist in name only.
[QUOTE=_Axel;47181131]More like they have a dumb entourage. Whoever sees that concept without thinking it's extremely questionable is probably a feminist in name only.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps I'm too naive, I would think the person who came up with the term is knowingly exploiting the entourage.
[url]https://archive.today/QLn79[/url]
[QUOTE=Wu]As a game developer, I am fundamentally uninterested in making games for traditional gamers. I'm very bored of violence as a main mechanic.[/QUOTE]
Has Wu not played Rev 60?
[url]https://archive.today/XUY0M[/url]
[QUOTE=@Spacekatgal]If you are a game journalist choosing to protect the status quo and silencing change editorially, I believe you are unethical.[/QUOTE]
About 7 months too late on that one, honey. :v:
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47180936]This is a bit off topic but I sorta agree. I've seen some tumblr posts where people rant around how tumblr has opened their eyes and they can no longer connect with friends or family and are afraid to go outside and tumblr is a 'safe haven' where they just want to stay, it strikes me as kinda cult-like.
The key difference though is it's self-spreading and has no structure. Cults have leaders, recruiters, objectives, etc. Social Justice (for lack of a better term) has none of those, it's just a hugbox that vulnerable people get trapped in and end up pushing away their real friends.[/QUOTE]
There are definitely some more prominent figures within the hugbox, though.
[url]https://twitter.com/archon/status/568919090858819584[/url]
LizzyF is now working for the Escapist.
[QUOTE=mooman1080;47181116]Who ever came up with "internal misogyny" is a huge piece of shit, but a smart piece of shit.[/QUOTE]
You could argue that it's possible for a woman to look down on women [I]other than themselves[/I] due to a sense of self superiority, but that says more about the individual than it does about the society. What's more that could happen to a man as well.
I feel like the gamergate wiki should have a list of people, I never know who we're talking about when someone says "John/Jane Smith just ___________."
I'm not good with names so I only really know some of the vanguards on each side.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47181863]I feel like the gamergate wiki should have a list of people, I never know who we're talking about when someone says "John/Jane Smith just ___________."
I'm not good with names so I only really know some of the vanguards of each side.[/QUOTE]
They deleted those because people kept claiming they were making inadvertently making harassment lists for people to look up targets. (Jimmy Wales)
I'm not sure where this poll was done but I saw it retweeted on twitter.
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-TDxXjIgAAzRGJ.jpg:large[/img]
[QUOTE=EmperorVagak;47181824][url]https://twitter.com/archon/status/568919090858819584[/url]
LizzyF is now working for the Escapist.[/QUOTE]
[URL="https://twitter.com/TheBrandonMorse"]Brandon Morse's Twitter feed[/URL] [URL="https://archive.today/0ktLA"]is pure gold :v:[/URL]
[editline]21st February 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47181863]I feel like the gamergate wiki should have a list of people, I never know who we're talking about when someone says "John/Jane Smith just ___________."
I'm not good with names so I only really know some of the vanguards on each side.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47181876]They deleted those because people kept claiming they were making inadvertently making harassment lists for people to look up targets. (Jimmy Wales)[/QUOTE]
To be fair that's probably not entirely untrue.
Just use ED if you need to look someone up, at this point almost all of them should be represented (and I wouldn't be surprised if there were articles about pro-GG people too).
[editline]21st February 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=nomad1;47182261]I'm not sure where this poll was done but I saw it retweeted on twitter.
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-TDxXjIgAAzRGJ.jpg:large[/img][/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology-science/technology/one-simple-test-tell-you-4372864"]It's from here.[/URL]
It's still open so vote if you want to move the percentages a bit more again.
[editline]21st February 2015[/editline]
[URL="https://archive.today/FZKOZ"]This just happened on Kotaku:[/URL]
[quote][...] (Gamergate is, of course, an amorphous movement, and, as we've reported before, members of that same movement have condemned harassment against Wu.) [...][/quote]
Not only does the post not contain any blanket condemnation of GG (or any directly expressed sentiment about it, for that matter), but it also includes a note about PAX's response that clearly points to Wu overdramatising the issue.
It's by Klepek though, who doesn't seem to have much involvement with GG in the first place and only joined Kotaku at the start of this year, if I'm not mistaken.
Interesting development.
In other news, a previous member of IGDA explains why he quit :
[URL]http://tinysubversions.com/2013/09/some-thoughts-on-the-igda-or-why-i-quit/[/URL]
Basically he says that IGDA is really bad for developers, creative types and is making things worse then trying to make it better. This is before GG as well.
[quote]I want to be perfectly clear so that people understand my present position as a former member of the IGDA Board of Directors:[I][B] I believe that it is in the interest of game studios and publishers [URL="http://tinysubversions.com/2013/09/some-thoughts-on-the-igda-or-why-i-quit/#note-2454-3"][SUP]3[/SUP][/URL] for an association of workers like the IGDA to exist in an ineffective state in order to drain the energy of people who could otherwise do effective pro-developer activism and to provide a straw man that can be pointed to in order to show that organizing will get us nowhere.[/quote][/B][/I]
[QUOTE=Tamschi;47182354]
[URL="http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology-science/technology/one-simple-test-tell-you-4372864"]It's from here.[/URL][/QUOTE]
Ahah oh shit I missed this
"Ok go to this github, click on this file, click on the third link, scroll this facebook post all the way down and see? This is practically the first thing it wants you to read!"
I still actively believe in more civil organizations in gaming to prevent companies from doing what they want, on both ends of the spectrum - the system was not required before because everyone was working to improve games as an art form, making the "best" game and to make a living, while now it's about marketing and making money above all else.
Source :
My sister went into game development and they worked her to the bone, didn't allow any creative advancement at all and she had nowhere to turn too and instead went into a different, but similar field unrelated to games. (So don't tell me "You don't know what's it's like!") The IGDA does nothing to help developers and instead wants them to follow a political idealogy - all they care about is membership and have done basically jack shit to advance worker and consumer rights in the game industry. It's basically a glorified forum that get's nothing done but --Spread the word!-- If you haven't heard that before, there's a reason people don't like people getting paid for just preaching. Because in the end, preaching is preaching and not doing, imo. There "[URL="http://www.igda.org/?page=acsioutreach"]What we have done![/URL]" page hasn't even been updated in over 2 years. Even for joining it, you get no benefits other then insurance, discounts on sites and the name IGDA slapped onto your game.
They suck and I hate them. They need to be replaced with people who actually do things instead of nothing - it's a waste of everybody's time and another "non-profit" organization that seems to care about being paid at the end of the day more then what they fight for. It's no wonder people are flocking to indie in droves.
[QUOTE=Tamschi;47182354][URL="https://archive.today/FZKOZ"]This just happened on Kotaku:[/URL]
Not only does the post not contain any blanket condemnation of GG (or any directly expressed sentiment about it, for that matter), but it also includes a note about PAX's response that clearly points to Wu overdramatising the issue.
It's by Klepek though, who doesn't seem to have much involvement with GG in the first place and only joined Kotaku at the start of this year, if I'm not mistaken.[/QUOTE]
Huh, I thought he was AGG, but then again I rarely see shit from him and he still actually interacts with TB on twitter every now and then. I could have had him mixed up with Ben "TB has a long-standing axe to grind with minorities" Kuchera for some reason. I still haven't gotten the names of everyone straight. In never bothered paying attention to the names of game journos until this whole dang thing happened.
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;47182672]Huh, I thought he was AGG, but then again I rarely see shit from him and he still actually interacts with TB on twitter every now and then. I could have had him mixed up with Ben "TB has a long-standing axe to grind with minorities" Kuchera for some reason. I still haven't gotten the names of everyone straight. In never bothered paying attention to the names of game journos until this whole dang thing happened.[/QUOTE]
klepek was definitely anti-gg. he was the one publishing all of the "zoe quinn is being harassed out of her home by gamergate again!" articles on giant bomb.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;47182733]klepek was definitely anti-gg. he was the one publishing all of the "zoe quinn is being harassed out of her home by gamergate again!" articles on giant bomb.[/QUOTE]
Ah, I thought so. I could have sworn he was the one telling gamergaters that he was legitimately afraid they would actually hurt someone.
I wonder what took him off the "GG is a hate campaign, no ifs, ands, or buts about it" bandwagon?
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;47182848]Ah, I thought so. I could have sworn he was the one telling gamergaters that he was legitimately afraid they would actually hurt someone.
I wonder what took him off the "GG is a hate campaign, no ifs, ands, or buts about it" bandwagon?[/QUOTE]
If I look on his Twitter he seems sane, appears to actually care about games and, at least nominally, about good journalism. He's not terribly politically correct either.
He probably noticed a while ago that all the ranting didn't help and decided to take a few steps back from the issue.
self awareness is fun
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/b5gBIgT.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Wii60;47183554]self awareness is fun
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/b5gBIgT.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
But all those gamers died months ago
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