• Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
    5,003 replies, posted
[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;47191884]This is the same guy that tried to get Erik Kain fired for the emulator article, then preceded to post a pirated version of the Hobbit. He is a walking oxymoron.[/QUOTE] I'm gonna need some source on that, but he really does seem like the kind of person who'd be dumb enough to do that.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;47192040]No offense but if you guys left the hugbox once in a while, you'd see they have some good arguments. All you have to do is go [url=http://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstGamerGate/]somewhere[/url] other than GamerGhazi (which is imo the single most radical & insane one), read their arguments with the intent to empathize with them (without assuming they're misinformed/sociopathic SJWs and dismissing everything they say), and finally stop demonizing an entire movement based on what false-flagging trolls on twitter do, if that sounds a little familiar. [/QUOTE] oh cool there's finally a sane anti-gg subreddit thanks for this
[QUOTE=Wii60;47192011]rationalwiki is written by wikipedia rejects no literally ryulong is on there[/QUOTE] Ryulong is one of main editors there before even taking over GamerGate article.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47192123]I also disagree with you calling us an echo-chamber - I don't think were an echo chamber - we have a fairly diverse set of opinions and are willing to listen as long as somebody provides a good source to their claims. You don't get banned for saying "No, look at my sources." They get banned for shitposting/flaming.[/quote] Yeah, I will admit this thread is x10 better than some other proGG places at keeping the discussion about corruption. It was a brave move to shun Peter Coffin discussion away, I don't think I've seen that anywhere else. Imo this thread is still only an echo chamber because dissenting opinions about Gamergate don't appear in the first place, mainly because the only vocal AGG posters on Facepunch are violent contrarians, and possibly because the silent AGG majority opens this thread, sees nothing but proGG opinions, and fears they'll be banned for "why post" if they bring in a controversial opinion. Much worse has happened in SH. The most AGG statements in this thread so far have been "hey guys, keep personal lives out of here". I still think it's an echo chamber, but not a hostile one. BTW I think KiA is beyond salvation, now it's just the proGG version of 'making fun of pissbabies', that's why I didn't post this there. [editline]22nd February 2015[/editline] Also I'm on mobile so sorry for any typos.
[QUOTE=Van-man;47192134]I'm gonna need some source on that, but he really does seem like the kind of person who'd be dumb enough to do that.[/QUOTE] ED has a section about it in their page about Kuchera.
i think we would accept any opinions against gamergate as long as they make sense and arn't just pure bashing (which is why im getting the why reply bans happen) [editline]22nd February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Van-man;47192134]I'm gonna need some source on that, but he really does seem like the kind of person who'd be dumb enough to do that.[/QUOTE] i can be a witness to this because i was watching the ben kuchera vs erik gunfire unfold live. [URL="https://twitter.com/erikkain/status/296336960597946369"]my favorite shot fired[/URL]
An echo chamber by definition censors or does not allow dissent. The overwhelming majority being from one side does not make an echo chamber. We had a few people stop by with valid criticism, we discussed it normally. 90% of the time all we get is someone coming here just to make a snarky comment and shitpost, which is when they get banned. Indeed it's hard to have a discussion when the loudest voices are shouting "literally KKK" in your ear all over again. Is it our fault? Sounds like victim blaming to me!
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;47192269] BTW I think KiA is beyond salvation, now it's just the proGG version of 'making fun of pissbabies', that's why I didn't post this there. [/QUOTE] The problem with KiA has to do with the inherent nature of Reddit. Their are 25k+ subs, so it "moves" pretty fast, and that actual corruption news is spaced out nowadays. So these gaps get filled in with that sweet juicy drama.
[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;47192329]90% of the time all we get is someone coming here just to make a snarky comment and shitpost, which is when they get banned.[/QUOTE] So to an outsider, what does 90% of AGG opinions getting banned look like? I get your point, and I don't want to put up with their shit either, but that's exactly why I suspect other AGGers are afraid to post here - which is why I'm saying that we shouldn't expect them to come to us, and if we want to hear their arguments we should find sane people and ask them first. [QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;47192329]Indeed it's hard to have a discussion when the loudest voices are shouting "literally KKK" in your ear all over again. Is it our fault? Sounds like victim blaming to me![/QUOTE] I know this isn't what you wanna hear, but it really does depend on where you ask and who you listen to. If you go into the most hostile part of the lion's den and declare yourself an outsider, they're not going to want to discuss with you. AGG does attract some very troubled people, but don't use guilt by association to say that everybody else are the ones preventing discussion.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;47192040]No offense but if you guys left the hugbox once in a while, you'd see they have some good arguments. All you have to do is go [url=http://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstGamerGate/]somewhere[/url] other than GamerGhazi (which is imo the single most radical & insane one), read their arguments with the intent to empathize with them (without assuming they're misinformed/sociopathic SJWs and dismissing everything they say), and finally stop demonizing an entire movement based on what false-flagging trolls on twitter do, if that sounds a little familiar. They're composed of as just many man-haters and cultists as we are of woman-haters and terrorists. Hiding in an echo chamber, laughing about how stupid we think they are, is making things worse. Things are only going to change with them when YOU guys, not just AGG, actually make an effort to go out there and understand where you disagree and why, beyond strawmanning like this post and many others. A few pages ago, everyone was saying how much they'd love to talk to AGGs if they were on this thread, which sounds pretty noble, but in reality - I think you guys expect them to find Facepunch, find this thread, post "hello I am misinformed" so that they can be converted to our side. That's not how it works, that's barely an argument, let alone a discussion. People can disagree with you for other reasons than being misinformed or being clinically insane, although I get that's hard to see when you only listen to the insane ones. If you really do care about understanding their side, you have to take the initiative and listen to their viewpoints first. If you're respectful and calm, and avoid logical fallacies, then most people will return the favor and try to understand why you think differently. I'm sure this is going to get showered in dumbs though, because see it or not, this thread is an echo chamber - it just doesn't have to always be like that.[/QUOTE] AgainstGamerGate people seem quite reasonable, being critical of flaws of GG rather than openly pro-nepotism like Ghazi. Criticism and especially self-criticism are good for staying on the right track, but with opponents as extreme as aGG, any criticism can easily be interpreted as an attack, because GG has been bombarded with attacks the entire time.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;47192400]So to an outsider, what does 90% of AGG opinions getting banned look like? I get your point, and I don't want to put up with their shit either, but that's exactly why I suspect other AGGers are afraid to post here - which is why I'm saying that we shouldn't expect them to come to us, and if we want to hear their arguments we should find sane people and ask them first.[/QUOTE] Go look at Maxof2SDs posts about GG. It boils down to not being an elitist condescending asshole. And even when we do ask them, we get accusations of sealioning and harrasement. You can approach them in the calmest way possible, and hey will still shit on you. That's the kind of shit that gets (or should get) banned.
[QUOTE=Wii60;47192011]rationalwiki is written by wikipedia rejects no literally ryulong is on there[/QUOTE] When Encyclopedia Dramatica can be considered a better source than you, you've failed.
[QUOTE=megafat;47192481]When Encyclopedia Dramatica can be considered a better source than you, you've failed.[/QUOTE] ED might be filled with hateful remarks that reeks of angsty teenager, but look past that and it's surprisingly factual.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;47192040]No offense but if you guys left the hugbox once in a while, you'd see they have some good arguments. All you have to do is go [URL="http://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstGamerGate/"]somewhere[/URL] other than GamerGhazi (which is imo the single most radical & insane one), read their arguments with the intent to empathize with them (without assuming they're misinformed/sociopathic SJWs and dismissing everything they say), and finally stop demonizing an entire movement based on what false-flagging trolls on twitter do, if that sounds a little familiar. They're composed of as just many man-haters and cultists as we are of woman-haters and terrorists. Hiding in an echo chamber, laughing about how stupid we think they are, is making things worse. Things are only going to change with them when YOU guys, not just AGG, actually make an effort to go out there and understand where you disagree and why, beyond strawmanning like this post and many others. A few pages ago, everyone was saying how much they'd love to talk to AGGs if they were on this thread, which sounds pretty noble, but in reality - I think you guys expect them to find Facepunch, find this thread, post "hello I am misinformed" so that they can be converted to our side. That's not how it works, that's barely an argument, let alone a discussion. People can disagree with you for other reasons than being misinformed or being clinically insane, although I get that's hard to see when you only listen to the insane ones. If you really do care about understanding their side, you have to take the initiative and listen to their viewpoints first. If you're respectful and calm, and avoid logical fallacies, then most people will return the favor and try to understand why you think differently. I'm sure this is going to get showered in dumbs though, because see it or not, this thread is an echo chamber - it just doesn't have to always be like that.[/QUOTE] It's amazing you call this section myopic when you personally have been practicing the same thing. I use this place as a update and discussion board and little else, my "AGG" as you call it occurs on the frontline and in the [I]workplace where this shit started and still pervades in differing degrees[/I]. Secondly, your commentary has pretty much been driveby boxes and x s for quite sometime, so you're in exactly no position to start [B]generalizing sentiment cover a wide range of differing opinion and mindsets[/B], as that's pretty much all you've done. You also provided exactly jack shit; by all means show these woman haters, show these supposed racists and link all this shit up, because you haven't presented any yet. Thirdly I give exactly zero fucks about convincing anyone of anything; we've already seen what that of kind behavior that brings in spades for years, so again maybe you need to reign in your net cause it's pretty much wide enough to be of little use.
I don't get what /r/AgainstGamergate is supposed to be. You cannot be against gamergate if you A) are against corruption B) care about games. Gamergate is not a group, it's a customer revolt, it's an ideal. You may not like *some* of the people who bring it on, but you are against [I]them[/I], not against the ideal. I'm not going to call myself "Anti-Equality" just because I think Anita Sarkeesian is full o' shit, for example.
All you have to do Is take a look at Mark Kern, he was trying to understand both sides, now he's receiving insane amounts of hate. Ken Levine just by acknowledging GG and trying to bridge a gap, received the same treatment and hasn't been on twitter since. Also, trying to downplay gamerghazi's involvement, they're a large part of AGG(It's a movement now?) and In regards to AGG sub, I've been there for awhile. It's fairly decent, but the atmosphere Is iffy, I could be in KIA one day and Ghazi the next
srhbutts posted some very weird things back in 2006 she posts under the username "sarah" here [url]http://web.archive.org/web/20060629204532/http://www.thepriceislol.com/showthread.php?tid=5687[/url] [QUOTE]why is it okay for, say, a 14 year old to consent to sex with a 14 year old, but if the other individual's 20, it's instantly abuse? I don't get that, and never have. the potential for abuse grows, sure, but it isn't inherently abusive.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]having sex with a child doesn't create a pedophile. what you're thinking of is a child molestor, but even then it isn't that simple.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]couldn't it be that children that had a positive, fulfilling, non-abusive sexual relationship with an adult as a child are more likely to realize such relationships are not inherently abusive, and be more likely to admit they're attracted to kids (either to themselves or others)?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;47192761]I don't get what /r/AgainstGamergate is supposed to be. You cannot be against gamergate if you A) are against corruption B) care about games. Gamergate is not a group, it's a customer revolt, it's an ideal. You may not like *some* of the people who bring it on, but you are against [I]them[/I], not against the ideal. I'm not going to call myself "Anti-Equality" just because I think Anita Sarkeesian is full o' shit, for example.[/QUOTE] It is really strange... I can understand if people are against some of the actions of people claiming to support #gamergate, but to oppose the values at the heart of the movement doesn't make much sense. There is room for valid arguments to be made, but they almost have to be either arguments against the idea that there is corruption in journalism (in which case you better have a lot of evidence) or arguments that there is a more effective/ethical/whatever way of achieving a more accountable and responsible environment for gaming journalism. One argument that is often made is that somebody is against gamergate because they don't want to be associated with harassment. It's fair to say you don't want to outwardly support it, but you don't actually oppose it just because you don't want to associate with its common title. If you are against it because you are wholeheartedly opposed to a decentralized reform movement and think there's a better way, that's getting there. If you think the decentralized reform movement is going to do more harm to gaming journalism than good, then you have an argument. In that argument though you'd have a lot of speculation unless you have some kind of evidence, and #gamergate reforms have a timeline with what we infer are results (actual reform taking place on select websites). A funny thing I noticed is that #gamergate on twitter has been a sort of journalistic honeypot, where valuable websites actually do research and draw conclusions or aptly decide to stay out of it, and blog "gaming news" websites and cheap journalists flock to the buzzing narrative of how evil #gamergate is and paint themselves as targets for investigation.
2006 was 9 years ago. Not defending her views, but just keep that in mind.
[QUOTE=EditOutJ;47192976]2006 was 9 years ago. Not defending her views, but just keep that in mind.[/QUOTE] pedophilla doesn't just vanish though. it is a fetish.
To be honest I'd rather not see stuff like this here.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;47190498][URL="https://medium.com/@meanmrpugface/the-3-events-that-made-gamergate-into-the-nearly-6-month-movement-it-is-today-8ad33f01c5fe"]The 3 events that made GamerGate into the nearly 6 month movement it is today[/URL][/QUOTE] Is the escapist the most well known gamergate discussion place? Does anyone even know about this place? Are we like the 5th tier site to discuss video games?
[QUOTE=Dick Slamfist;47192998]Is the escapist the most well known gamergate discussion place? Does anyone even know about this place? Are we like the 5th tier site to discuss video games?[/QUOTE] Not even close to 5th, I don't think. We're really not [I]that[/I] popular in the grand scheme of things. I'm happy that Escapist's got our back, though Morse honestly raises concerns. I don't want him trying to "represent" GamerGate with his already kinda fucked up views on transgenderism and all.
speaking of escapist [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/27THs2z.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Monkah;47193021]Not even close to 5th, I don't think. We're really not [I]that[/I] popular in the grand scheme of things. I'm happy that Escapist's got our back, though the new guy raises concerns. I don't want him trying to "represent" GamerGate with his already kinda fucked up views on transgenderism and all.[/QUOTE] [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2wqaiv/the_very_same_people_that_didnt_bat_an_eye_at_the/cot5cb8[/url] This whole commnet thread really has some good counter points the the whole Morse stuff. The best stuff is in Lampreh's reply thread with I_DRINK_TO_FORGET.
I once saw someone in a /v/ thread on #gg mention FP and then complain about milkandcooki and craptasket and it was oddly surreal because I thought those were characters only I knew about
[QUOTE=DuCT;47193057][url]https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2wqaiv/the_very_same_people_that_didnt_bat_an_eye_at_the/cot5cb8[/url] This whole commnet thread really has some good counter points the the whole Morse stuff. The best stuff is in Lampreh's reply thread with I_DRINK_TO_FORGET.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]If you want to be trans, then you go right ahead. Don’t force everyone else to pretend along with you.[/QUOTE] If you can't take two seconds out of your daily life to refer to a trans as 'she' instead of 'he' (or visa versa)-- it's just being rude. Whether you personally recognize them as male or female, it's one extra letter just to make someone feel a whole lot happier. Who cares? All in all, he's exactly the boogeymen that places like /r/GamerGhazi love to describe. I don't want him being a major figure within GamerGate with those kinds of views-- validating their claims would really suck.
Who the fuck is brandon morse
[QUOTE=Monkah;47193100]If you can't take two seconds out of your daily life to refer to a trans as 'she' instead of 'he' (or visa versa)-- it's just being rude. Whether you personally recognize them as male or female, it's one extra letter just to make someone feel a whole lot happier. Who cares? All in all, he's exactly the boogeymen that places like /r/GamerGhazi love to describe. I don't want him being a major figure within GamerGate with those kinds of views-- validating their claims would really suck.[/QUOTE] He's not a major figure in GG, he's a writer for The Escapist. And yeah, it's rude, but it's hardly the worst thing ever.
[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;47193150]Who the fuck is brandon morse[/QUOTE] person that got hired with liz at the escapist people are trying to make him look like a bad person because his opinion differs from others when the job he's hired for talks about video games. i dont like his opinions about trans stuff but trans stuff is not involved on video games
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