• Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
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[QUOTE=ZuXer;47197428]I'm a few pages late with this, but why are people liking Liana or whoever? Wasn't she the idiot who claimed Witcher 3 is made of rape? [editline]23rd February 2015[/editline] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/XILc1jy.jpg[/IMG] found it[/QUOTE] How do you turn rape into video games? Is it like some kind of fucked up conversion?
Alright I have the time now - Arguments anti-gg sides. Taken from multiple interviews, reddit comments, and personally conducted interviews. [B]Radical: [/B] - Gamergate is a hate movement that doesn't care about discussions. - Gamergate harasses people with dissenting opinion so their leaders command them to harass. [[I have seriously heard this]] - Certain games make people terrible, racist and mysgonist. We need to change them and Gamergate is preventing that. - Gamergate just wants to shut down feminism in games. - Journalists are going the right way - not the wrong way. - Journalists didn't create the narrative Gamergate did. - Gamergate just wants to censor social activism because it will change their games too much. - Gamergate is mysgonist because they attack women and feminist activists only. [B]In-between:[/B] - The corruption problems are too few to care about - Sexism and harassment is more important. - Gamergate can never succeed because it is leaderless - the trolls will always be louder and listened too because of this. - Gamergate doesn't care about corruption they just care about E-celebs. - There is hardly enough evidence suggesting that gaming journalists are responsible for a decades old stigma. - Gamergate is enabling trolls to harass and utilize swatting more effectively and together. - This is the internet - this happens all the time, why is it different now? [B]Moderate :[/B] - Gamergate should not be targeting advertisers - it creates an editorial gag. - Gamergate is making it more difficult to fight corruption because you are labelled as one if you try it fight it outside of Gamergate. (Very weird one, I know.) - Gaming journalists are becoming useless and nobody listens to them anymore - Gamergate is just making things worse in the long run by giving them more attention. - Gamergate are the ones who spread unwanted attention to these issues. [[Off shoot of one above.]] - Many points in Gamergate are exaggerated and that's the only reason they continue to receive members. Obviously : all of these are arguable - I do not agree with the very vast majority here. I missed a whole bunch but these are the "major ones" - Labels of my own doing and ranking. If you feel something is more radical or moderate.. point it out! Another factoid is I cannot gather all possible major points - feel free to say any that might have been missed on this list. Enjoy.
Obsidian Entertainment closes #GG thread and Feminism threads [url]http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70132-journalism-and-sexism-in-the-games-industry/page-28[/url] [url]http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70538-feminism/page-4[/url] seems like they just want to stay out of it
Fuck man, why can't they just be honest? The Witcher series, imo, handles relationships poorly and I would love for prominent AGGrs that agree with me to have some kind of debate with a well known GG that disagrees with our view. Saying that the game is, "made of rape" and the trailer will show a gang rape is just fucking stupid, how does lying about that help gaming grow and become something better? It's so frustrating to have such incredible opportunity for people to debate about the big problems in gaming right now, instead we get things like, "Zelda is a DID and is only a trophy", "The Witcher is made of rape" or other criticisms that don't make any sense.
[QUOTE=Wii60;47198119]Obsidian Entertainment closes #GG thread and Feminism threads [url]http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70132-journalism-and-sexism-in-the-games-industry/page-28[/url] [url]http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70538-feminism/page-4[/url] seems like they just want to stay out of it[/QUOTE] The second one : Males talking about feminism? We can't have that! Really dumb argument for closing the thread. If not for the second one I would have assumed they just wanted out of it.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/ZVkSKED.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Wii60;47198172][img]http://i.imgur.com/ZVkSKED.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Context.
[QUOTE=Van-man;47197681]I'd still like to know how Max ended up as moderator. He really moderated with his personal opinion instead of using common sense.[/QUOTE] Garry made him a mod not because he was good mod material, but because it was the only way to stop Max from getting banned by other moderators all the time while he was still working for him
[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;47198240]Context.[/QUOTE] he runs escapist. The escapist has recently been hiring a ton of Pro-gg people EIC= Editor in Chief
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;47195874]What I find interesting is Niandra is anti-GG. also hi you're watching the thread pls don't ban everybody like TH89 v2 electric boogaloo[/QUOTE] She isn't so much #AGG as she is like the rest of the forum/mods; "u guys need to get a life and stop being gigantic nerdbabies about shit you can't control #airsoft4ever"
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47198079] - Gamergate is making it more difficult to fight corruption because you are labelled as one if you try it fight it outside of Gamergate. (Very weird one, I know.)[/QUOTE] Not that weird, honestly- compare to the shitheads who cry 'go back to tumblr' whenever trans issues or gender comes up in discussion. But of course the key word is shitheads.
[QUOTE=ZuXer;47197428]I'm a few pages late with this, but why are people liking Liana or whoever? Wasn't she the idiot who claimed Witcher 3 is made of rape?[/QUOTE] The thing is Liana was one of the moderate anti-gg, she was critical of gamergate and got a lot of undeserved shit for it but she never played the victim card and was always fair in her arguments. She got ostracized by anti-gg for daring to have a discussion with gamergate instead of condemning it wholesale as a hate campaign. So yes, she might have some questionable opinions but people like her because she's one of our critics that wasn't a total dickwad If you've got some time you might want to listen to this stream she did with sargon a long while ago, she brings some interesting points [video=youtube;QuHfu3W1BGE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHfu3W1BGE[/video]
[QUOTE=ZuXer;47197428]I'm a few pages late with this, but why are people liking Liana or whoever? Wasn't she the idiot who claimed Witcher 3 is made of rape? [editline]23rd February 2015[/editline] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/XILc1jy.jpg[/IMG] found it[/QUOTE] because they want put their pepe in her vajeje, she's pretty much played both sides against each other for her own amusement and $$$, which frankly is fine, but anyone expecting to her evangelize for them as a magical sexy knight of the greater good is an idiot. RLK is about RLK with a slight side dish of feminism now and then, and it's not like she ever hid that.
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYPC-YMdJFI"]Parkourdude91[/URL] has just officially Came out as a MDE Performance Artist and his name is Jan Rankowski and not Jace Connors. before it was just a huge rumor that popped out of nowhere with a ton of evidence, now it's official. he will do a livestream about it at 6PM EST on Wednesday. This means the Brianna Wu Restraining order is 100% fake or for someone not related to GG at all.
4 years as a cybermanbaby, that's some fucking oscar level shit right there.
Is it a fair statement that the other side is equally asfaceted as ours?There are the journos whos idea of damage control consisted of dousing themselves with gasoline and jumping in the fire,the opertunists looking to cash in controversy,trolls who just want to watch the world burn ,people who legitimately hate nerds and gamers,tumblr SJWs who do very little thinking for themselves,the misinformed or those who don't care about the means to an end. [editline]23rd February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Wii60;47198470][URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYPC-YMdJFI"]Parkourdude91[/URL] has just officially Came out as a MDE Performance Artist and his name is Jan Rankowski and not Jace Connors. before it was just a huge rumor that popped out of nowhere with a ton of evidence, now it's official. he will do a livestream about it at 6PM EST on Wednesday. This means the Brianna Wu Restraining order is 100% fake or for someone not related to GG at all.[/QUOTE] It could have actually been made but may not be valid as its not actually the guys name,isn't there a lawyer or two involved in pro-gaming should get them to clarify.
[QUOTE=ZuXer;47197428]I'm a few pages late with this, but why are people liking Liana or whoever? Wasn't she the idiot who claimed Witcher 3 is made of rape? [editline]23rd February 2015[/editline] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/XILc1jy.jpg[/IMG] found it[/QUOTE] She also insulted the Polish people as well, claiming that they are a sexist people. [video=youtube;PQKpH_ujwkc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQKpH_ujwkc[/video] [
Also another thing about parkourdude91, Jan Rankowski is genuinely autistic to the point where [URL="http://www.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2004/09/01/schoolyard_allowed_to_bar_autistic_boy/"]he was banned from playgrounds as a kid due to it[/URL]. this means that Wu was using someone with a disability for Victim money.
There's one major game where if someone said "this game is sexist and terrible because of it" most pro-GG people would actually agree with them. Metroid Other M. Unfortunately I NEVER see it brought up by people talking about sexism in video games, hell the only person who I've seen mention it is the violently anti-GG MovieBob and he DEFENDED it. I think that one problem that pro-GG has with so called "feminists" is that gaming is ALREADY improving in terms of better written female characters in games and females in the industry. The people doing the most to work against it are Anita Sarkeesian (by stirring up shit and attacking games that don't deserve it, including games that are actually trying to have good female characters, and games that actually moved their relative series forward with their female roles like Zelda: OOT), and other people and sources that consider themselves "feminists" but are only scaring and driving women away from gaming by grossly exaggerating the amount of misogyny in the gaming industry and in gaming culture. The worst enemy to women in gaming are people who claim they're the ones for it and everyone else is against it.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47198079]Alright I have the time now - Arguments anti-gg sides. Taken from multiple interviews, reddit comments, and personally conducted interviews. [...][/QUOTE] [citation needed] :v: I can confirm seeing almost all of those though.
[QUOTE=Tamschi;47198690][citation needed] :v: I can confirm seeing almost all of those though.[/QUOTE] I am sure you have seen those arguments before, these are random, major points that are brought up often - they have no particular source and doesn't mean that every anti-gg agree's with all of them, hence the labels. If you have a common argument you have seen you can add on to the list. There is no "official stance" of either side.
[QUOTE=Wii60;47198583]Also another thing about parkourdude91, Jan Rankowski is genuinely autistic to the point where [URL="http://www.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2004/09/01/schoolyard_allowed_to_bar_autistic_boy/"]he was banned from playgrounds as a kid due to it[/URL]. this means that Wu was using someone with a disability for Victim money.[/QUOTE] Looks like I have to spell this out again: Just because someone uses/abuses someone who happens to have autism doesn't mean that has anything to do with it, or that they even know of it (which is extremely unlikely in this case). Holding that against her or anyone else without proof that it's related isn't just pushing it, it's completely non-constructive mudslinging (and also more or less [I]exactly[/I] what the journos are doing with women in gaming). [editline]23rd February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47198721]I am sure you have seen those arguments before, these are random, major points that are brought up often - they have no particular source and doesn't mean that every anti-gg agree's with all of them, hence the labels. If you have a common argument you have seen you can add on to the list. There is no "official stance" of either side.[/QUOTE] You have a point, it's probably the same as when asking for an official list of demands from GG. That said in the case of AGG (and to some extent GG) it would at least be possible to highlight when prominent figures expressed a particular sentiment.
So Jace is 100% confirmed fake? Because from what little I've seen he could simply be crazy enough that he could just be playing along with the "Actually a member of MDE" conspiracy or something.
[QUOTE=Tamschi;47198736] You have a point, it's probably the same as when asking for an official list of demands from GG. That said in the case of AGG (and to some extent GG) it would at least be possible to highlight when prominent figures expressed a particular sentiment.[/QUOTE] Almost all the points are generalized from different wordings of the same statement - somebody would have to go categorize what person "basically" said each point - I MAYBE do that if I have time but it'd take a hell of a long while. For now, you can know that a majority of radical points were said (in different ways) by prominent figures - that being said, there's only like, 5 of them.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;47198618]There's one major game where if someone said "this game is sexist and terrible because of it" most pro-GG people would actually agree with them. Metroid Other M. Unfortunately I NEVER see it brought up by people talking about sexism in video games, hell the only person who I've seen mention it is the violently anti-GG MovieBob and he DEFENDED it. I think that one problem that pro-GG has with so called "feminists" is that gaming is ALREADY improving in terms of better written female characters in games and females in the industry. The people doing the most to work against it are Anita Sarkeesian (by stirring up shit and attacking games that don't deserve it, including games that are actually trying to have good female characters, and games that actually moved their relative series forward with their female roles like Zelda: OOT), and other people and sources that consider themselves "feminists" but are only scaring and driving women away from gaming by grossly exaggerating the amount of misogyny in the gaming industry and in gaming culture. The worst enemy to women in gaming are people who claim they're the ones for it and everyone else is against it.[/QUOTE] Becuse Other M is fucking garbage and no one wants to remember it.
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;47198776]So Jace is 100% confirmed fake? Because from what little I've seen he could simply be crazy enough that he could just be playing along with the "Actually a member of MDE" conspiracy or something.[/QUOTE] [url]http://youtu.be/wBlJZdSsfcw[/url] [editline]23rd February 2015[/editline] Sony Threatens to pull ad revenue and prevent review copies over low order 1886 reviews [url]http://www.craveonline.com/gaming/articles/826607-santa-monica-dev-threatens-pull-ads-low-order-1886-reviews[/url] [img]http://i.imgur.com/o5yhu9R.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;47198618]There's one major game where if someone said "this game is sexist and terrible because of it" most pro-GG people would actually agree with them. Metroid Other M.[/QUOTE] Agreed. Metroid Other M fucking ruined Samus.
another female game journalist has been hired at the escapist [url]https://twitter.com/archon/status/569937492779995136[/url]
[QUOTE=Wii60;47198831][url]http://youtu.be/wBlJZdSsfcw[/url] [editline]23rd February 2015[/editline] Sony Threatens to pull ad revenue and prevent review copies over low order 1886 reviews [url]http://www.craveonline.com/gaming/articles/826607-santa-monica-dev-threatens-pull-ads-low-order-1886-reviews[/url] [img]http://i.imgur.com/o5yhu9R.png[/img][/QUOTE] Dude, he's a combat designer at their Santa Monica studio. As if he's in any position to get shit like that done.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;47199054]Dude, he's a combat designer at their Santa Monica studio. As if he's in any position to get shit like that done.[/QUOTE] employees still speak for the company, theres a reason why companies have social media guides now that explain all the reasons why you shouldn't post shit like that (and if you do to have a disclaimer saying you speak for yourself, which he doesnt have anywhere on his twitter).
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