Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
5,003 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829][b]Someone saying "notyoursheild" becomes like the "I have a black friend so its ok" type of thing.[/b][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]Almost ever minority I know both personally and online that has said anything about GamerGate at all has spoken of it negatively.[/QUOTE]
Considering this is an online forum, and how much we're [i]actually[/i] inclined to believe you at face value, you probably shouldn't bank on this.
By the way how's your uncle's job at Nintendo going?
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]Ironically #Notyoursheild is a hashtag that is literally using minorities as a shield from accusations of racism sexism etc. But lets pretend that their aren't a large number of sock puppet minorities of white male Gamergators.
The problem with a minority speaking out against a movement for their rights of that minority is actually more harmful than typical. Someone saying "notyoursheild" becomes like the "I have a black friend so its ok" type of thing.
This "special snowflake" minority will get all the attention of GG. For every 100 women that are against or at least feel uneasy about GG there might be one that's vocal pro-GG. Guess which one GG will do everything in their power to make their voice as heard as loudly as possible? This is why "anti-feminist-but-im-going-to-say-im-feminist-anyway" Christina Hoff Sommers has gained so much popularity.
Almost ever minority I know both personally and online that has said anything about GamerGate at all has spoken of it negatively.[/QUOTE]
Christina is a Feminist.
And Notyourshield doesn't have to be apart of Gamergate, they can dislike Gamergate for all they want, but it doesn't mean that they like media using them as their shield.
[editline]5th March 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=.Venom;47261868]Misandry won't solve misogyny[/QUOTE]
What if it does? What if each gender hates the other gender? Doesn't that mean we are equal in a way that doesn't really make sense?
[QUOTE=.Venom;47261868]Misandry won't solve misogyny[/QUOTE]
If anything it will make it worse
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]Ironically #Notyoursheild is a hashtag that is literally using minorities as a shield from accusations of racism sexism etc. But lets pretend that their aren't a large number of sock puppet minorities of white male Gamergators.
The problem with a minority speaking out against a movement for their rights of that minority is actually more harmful than typical. Someone saying "notyoursheild" becomes like the "I have a black friend so its ok" type of thing.
This "special snowflake" minority will get all the attention of GG. For every 100 women that are against or at least feel uneasy about GG there might be one that's vocal pro-GG. Guess which one GG will do everything in their power to make their voice as heard as loudly as possible? This is why "anti-feminist-but-im-going-to-say-im-feminist-anyway" Christina Hoff Sommers has gained so much popularity.[/QUOTE]
I find it interesting how you rail on #NotYourShield, which is principally about not allowing people to use minorities as a shield for their own purposes
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]ever minority I know both personally and online that has said anything about GamerGate at all has spoken of it negatively.[/QUOTE]
And then go and use minorities as a shield, in a way that kinda sounds like a
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]"I have a black friend so its ok" type of thing[/QUOTE]
Could just be me, though
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]Ironically #Notyoursheild is a hashtag that is literally using minorities as a shield from accusations of racism sexism etc. But lets pretend that their aren't a large number of sock puppet minorities of white male Gamergators.
[/QUOTE]
From what I gather it was started because people kept generalising gamers as Whitecismale misogynist dirtbags,and when people not belonging to their group spoke out they were denied to have existed in the first place.
What is the racism and sexism that we are perpatrating here that warrants a sheild?
I myself find #notyourammo would be more fitting as from what I see thats what the people of notyourshield are tweeting in response to.Being used as cheap disposable ammo.
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]
The problem with a minority speaking out against a movement for their rights of that minority is actually more harmful than typical. Someone saying "notyoursheild" becomes like the "I have a black friend so its ok" type of thing.
[/QUOTE]
In what way does #notyourshield try to validate instances o sexism and racism?I have yet to see someone say "#notyourshield I hate women".What rights are the people of tumblr fighting for on behalf that they didnt have beore?They have been around and been part of the gaming community for a long while now.If you want to get into the low representation perhaps look at media and its portrayl of gaming as a terrible place where you will be attacked mercillesy based on gender,genitals,and geneology.
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]
Almost ever minority I know both personally and online that has said anything about GamerGate at all has spoken of it negatively.[/QUOTE]
Actually agree with you here,the people I talk to are sick of Gamergate and how a bunch of media hacks have used the gaming community as a scapegoat to feul a firestorm of media panic.
Gameragte is an event not a movement.
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]Ironically #Notyoursheild is a hashtag that is literally using minorities as a shield from accusations of racism sexism etc. But lets pretend that their aren't a large number of sock puppet minorities of white male Gamergators.
The problem with a minority speaking out against a movement for their rights of that minority is actually more harmful than typical. Someone saying "notyoursheild" becomes like the "I have a black friend so its ok" type of thing.
This "special snowflake" minority will get all the attention of GG. For every 100 women that are against or at least feel uneasy about GG there might be one that's vocal pro-GG. Guess which one GG will do everything in their power to make their voice as heard as loudly as possible? This is why "anti-feminist-but-im-going-to-say-im-feminist-anyway" Christina Hoff Sommers has gained so much popularity.
Almost ever minority I know both personally and online that has said anything about GamerGate at all has spoken of it negatively.[/QUOTE]
The irony about people pulling the "black-friend" card to attack NotYourShield is that the entire point of NotYourShield wasn't "hey, we're not sexist/racist/transphobic! Just look at all our tokens!" the entire point was "Privileged white dudes need to stop calling us all straight white dudes and pretending there's no women and minorities"
[QUOTE=Xonax;47261897]Christina is a Feminist.[/QUOTE]
Does she have any good feminist writing?
All of the stuff I've seen of her is very critical of feminism. Not that it's a bad thing, there's a lot about modern feminism to criticize, but I kinda view her as a fairly against what we now call feminism.
[QUOTE=GamerKiwi;47261939]The irony about people pulling the "black-friend" card to attack NotYourShield is that the entire point of NotYourShield wasn't "hey, we're not sexist/racist/transphobic! Just look at all our tokens!" the entire point was "Privileged white dudes need to stop calling us all straight white dudes and pretending there's no women and minorities"
Does she have any good feminist writing?
All of the stuff I've seen of her is very critical of feminism. Not that it's a bad thing, there's a lot about modern feminism to criticize, but I kinda view her as a fairly against what we now call feminism.[/QUOTE]She's an equity feminist and about building others up, which at this point is basically the exact opposite of the "feminism" the SJW types use, which is about tearing others down and giving benefits to those perceived as disadvantaged.
[QUOTE=Xonax;47261897]
What if it does? What if each gender hates the other gender? Doesn't that mean we are equal in a way that doesn't really make sense?[/QUOTE]
It would incite conflict, so even if you had "equality" people would still be given hard time for being who they are.
And as conflicts tend to go, they escalate and one side starts winning and then you'd have the same problems you started with, but worse.
The whole thing really isn't about equality, it's about fairness. And that's why it's difficult because people have different ideas of what's fair.
[QUOTE=Banned?;47261486]NerdCubed is like "It was just a joke guys." [url]https://twitter.com/Dannerdcubed[/url][/QUOTE]
Curious, is there a video compilation of dumb tweets like this with that guy yelling "it's a prank brooo"?
They'll never learn, attacking Gamergate just strengthens everyone's resolve.
In regards to that shitshow, I'm half Pakeha/Maori, with my Maori genes being the more dominant and I've never been persecuted In real life for it. But these SJW shitlords seem dandy dismissing females and POC at every possible turn.
P.S your Ghazi Is showing Snake7
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzhqP4fIEAEvfEU.png[/img]
double fine literally buying opinions
I love how he failed at it too.
[editline]5th March 2015[/editline]
That's the icing on the cake.
[QUOTE=Wii60;47262030][img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzhqP4fIEAEvfEU.png[/img]
double fine literally buying opinions[/QUOTE]
Not quite buying opinions more trying to hush people up and generate good PR.
Based on Schafer and his conduct its like throwing a teacup on a bonfire,he pissed off a lot of people with that sockpuppet.
[QUOTE=JesseR92;47262041]
Based on Schafer and his conduct its like throwing a teacup on a bonfire,he pissed off a lot of people with that sockpuppet.[/QUOTE]
Did he really not see this coming though? It's just shitting on his customers, and it's not even funny unless you're familiar with gamergate - and even then it produces a very mild chuckle at its very best.
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]The problem with a minority speaking out against a movement for their rights of that minority is actually more harmful than typical.[/QUOTE]
If SocJus is a movement for minorities' rights I'm the goddamn queen of England.
[QUOTE]Someone saying "notyoursheild" becomes like the "I have a black friend so its ok" type of thing.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Almost ever minority I know both personally and online that has said anything about GamerGate at all has spoken of it negatively.[/QUOTE]
Ah, the sweet taste of irony.
So, I think it's about time I get to know what all the fuss is about
The only thing I understand about the whole thing is that one day a game developer, Zoe Quinn, was discovered to have slpet with several gaming journalists thank to her ex. The whole thing became infamous because her visual novel-ish game on Steam was considered by many a pile of shit while said journalists and some more gave it favorable reviews
So nowadays we have these two factions rampaging through the internet:
- Gaming journalists thinking modern gamers are assholes against women and gays and deep philosophical games who are entrenched in their "wrong opinions"
- Gamers who think modern gaming journalists are either sellouts or ignorant "but it's art" critics of some kind
Did I get the whole picture right?
So Ghazi once again proves to be completely fucking delusional. Just reading this makes me think that weeaboos are completely normal people compared to these guys.
[url]https://archive.today/j2INl[/url]
Just remember objectification of real people is okay, but if you even think of objectifying video game characters, you're a horrible monster!
[QUOTE=EliaMoroes;47262097]So, I think it's about time I get to know what all the fuss is about
The only thing I understand about the whole thing is that one day a game developer, Zoe Quinn, was discovered to have slpet with several gaming journalists thank to her ex. The whole thing became infamous because her visual novel-ish game on Steam was considered by many a pile of shit while said journalists and some more gave it favorable reviews
So nowadays we have these two factions rampaging through the internet:
- Gaming journalists thinking modern gamers are assholes against women and gays and deep philosophical games who are entrenched in their "wrong opinions"
- Gamers who think modern gaming journalists are either sellouts or ignorant "but it's art" critics of some kind
Did I get the whole picture right?[/QUOTE]
you missed the part where people asked about
"who else does favorable reviews with their friends",
"wait I'm shadow banned",
"wait there is a connection between admins and people being questioned",
"wait 12 articles lumping the most compassionate people who may or may not have asked about corruption being with the lowest of the low",
"but having a group of people push a story like that is absurd",
"wait, there's actually a mailing list that had pushed bias",
"wait, don't form into a wagon wheel after that comes out",
"wait, people are trolling to make things worse",
"wait someone trolled themselves on a thursday, got on every non main news program saying I sent a death threat on a monday"
"wait, wikipedia editors are corrupt too"
I can go on and on, so much so much.
Tim's strawman show reminded me of
[img]http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/120831045637-rnc-bts-clint-eastwood-00011029-story-top.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]Almost ever minority I know both personally and online that has said anything about GamerGate at all has spoken of it negatively.[/QUOTE]
Where did they get their information on the movement though? From journalists? From you? You can form people's opinions for them if you're the one telling them everything they know about a subject. Hell, that's the reason AGG has so much backing, the 'leaders' have convinced the followers that GGers are not even worth speaking to, ergo the leader's word is the only word.
[QUOTE=EliaMoroes;47262097]So, I think it's about time I get to know what all the fuss is about
The only thing I understand about the whole thing is that one day a game developer, Zoe Quinn, was discovered to have slpet with several gaming journalists thank to her ex. The whole thing became infamous because her visual novel-ish game on Steam was considered by many a pile of shit while said journalists and some more gave it favorable reviews
So nowadays we have these two factions rampaging through the internet:
- Gaming journalists thinking modern gamers are assholes against women and gays and deep philosophical games who are entrenched in their "wrong opinions"
- Gamers who think modern gaming journalists are either sellouts or ignorant "but it's art" critics of some kind
Did I get the whole picture right?[/QUOTE]
If anything, take this from GamerGate: It all could have been easily dealt with within days. I'm serious. Honest to god. The only reason that GG is still going is that discussion has been shut down without any good reason, people have been banned without any good reason and reasonable people have been alienated, vilified and antagonised without any good reason. Most people who wanted to talk about GG didn't dox. They didn't harass. But because they have been labeled not only by mainstream media but also by their own media as scum of the earth they won't stop talking about it.
Everything has been reduced to ONE hashtag and that's why barely anyone is able to have a nuanced discussion about it. Gamerghazi will focus on harassment, KiA will focus on what's wrong with the industry. They're all talking past each other.
There is no clear definiton of what GG is and that invites idiots like Tim Schafer who like to kick around those dirty entitled gamer plebians when, frankly, they got biggers issues than GG.
Here is the entire Joke part of GDC.
[video=youtube;EoJtfRH1rlQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoJtfRH1rlQ[/video]
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]Ironically #Notyoursheild is a hashtag that is literally using minorities as a shield from accusations of racism sexism etc. But lets pretend that their aren't a large number of sock puppet minorities of white male Gamergators.
The problem with a minority speaking out against a movement for their rights of that minority is actually more harmful than typical. Someone saying "notyoursheild" becomes like the "I have a black friend so its ok" type of thing.
This "special snowflake" minority will get all the attention of GG. For every 100 women that are against or at least feel uneasy about GG there might be one that's vocal pro-GG. Guess which one GG will do everything in their power to make their voice as heard as loudly as possible? This is why "anti-feminist-but-im-going-to-say-im-feminist-anyway" Christina Hoff Sommers has gained so much popularity.
Almost ever minority I know both personally and online that has said anything about GamerGate at all has spoken of it negatively.[/QUOTE]
AGG everyone. Look at him and laugh
[QUOTE=uber.;47262213]If anything, take this from GamerGate: It all could have been easily dealt with within days. I'm serious. Honest to god. The only reason that GG is still going is that discussion has been shut down without any good reason, people have been banned without any good reason and reasonable people have been alienated, vilified and antagonised without any good reason. Most people who wanted to talk about GG didn't dox. They didn't harass. But because they have been labeled not only by mainstream media but also by their own media as scum of the earth they won't stop talking about it.
Everything has been reduced to ONE hashtag and that's why barely anyone is able to have a nuanced discussion about it. Gamerghazi will focus on harassment, KiA will focus on what's wrong with the industry. They're all talking past each other.
There is no clear definiton of what GG is and that invites idiots like Tim Schafer who like to kick around those dirty entitled gamer plebians when, frankly, they got biggers issues than GG.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like any modern argument about some serious subject to me
[QUOTE=EliaMoroes;47262236]Sounds like any modern argument about some serious subject to me[/QUOTE]
People were banned from discussing this corruption stuff AT ALL, it doesn't matter how they went about it or what side they were on. All discussion of this stuff was banned from every major website except the Escapist and a few other less notable sites (like Facepunch hurr hurr). Following from that, instead of defending their actions or coming up with an explanation the glorified gaming press decided to attack their public audience by declaring that "Gamers are Dead" in about 11 different articles throughout a number of different gaming websites, basically trying to shame people out of criticizing them. They then started calling anyone who disagreed with them Terrorists and Misogynists who hate women while continuing to ignore and belittle their concerns.
Sounds like fair and reasonable discourse to me.
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]Ironically #Notyoursheild is a hashtag that is literally using minorities as a shield from accusations of racism sexism etc. But lets pretend that their aren't a large number of sock puppet minorities of white male Gamergators.
The problem with a minority speaking out against a movement for their rights of that minority is actually more harmful than typical. Someone saying "notyoursheild" becomes like the "I have a black friend so its ok" type of thing.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure you have many statistics and sources to back this claim and you just forgot to mention any.
I look forward to reading a polygon article about this though.
Also you have absolutely no clue what notyourshield is for, who created it an why
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]This "special snowflake" minority will get all the attention of GG. For every 100 women that are against or at least feel uneasy about GG there might be one that's vocal pro-GG. Guess which one GG will do everything in their power to make their voice as heard as loudly as possible?[/QUOTE]
Guess who's going to be the most pissed off and speak out when some of you dickwads start saying they don't exist or are not the "right kind of minority"?
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]This is why "anti-feminist-but-im-going-to-say-im-feminist-anyway" Christina Hoff Sommers has gained so much popularity.[/QUOTE]
In a way I actually agree with this, by your standards, someone who's for gender equality and open discourse is the antithesis of feminism.
I wonder who's handing out the feminism membership cards though. I hope they're more organized than us because I signed up to be a member of the patriarchy 6 months ago and I still haven't got my card.
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]Almost ever minority I know both personally and online that has said anything about GamerGate at all has spoken of it negatively.[/QUOTE]
How ironic
This is how it usually ends up with aGGro people coming here, when their arguments start leaking all over the place it devolves into spewing the usual bigoted bullshit with nothing to back it up.
Source your shit or fuck off, I'm tired of you.
Yes I am angry.
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]Ironically #Notyoursheild is a hashtag that is literally using minorities as a shield from accusations of racism sexism etc. But lets pretend that their aren't a large number of sock puppet minorities of Jew Gamergators.[/QUOTE]
There's a difference between using yourself as a shield to get your voice heard and having white trustfund assholes speak for you while suppressing you. If you don't understand the distinction here you're probably too deep in your own bias to notice that.
[QUOTE]The problem with a minority speaking out against a movement for their rights of that minority is actually more harmful than typical.[/QUOTE]
That's assuming AGG is actually a movement that defends their rights, something which they have actually failed to display. Meanwhile, GG fundraisers gave money to organisations encouraging females to get into gaming and other charities...
[QUOTE]Someone saying "notyoursheild" becomes like the "I have a black friend so its ok" type of thing.[/QUOTE]
More like "I am black and you don't get to speak for my entire ethnicity".
[QUOTE]This "special snowflake" minority will get all the attention of GG. For every 100 women that are against or at least feel uneasy about GG there might be one that's vocal pro-GG.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure that these are figures that are representative of the actual movement.
[QUOTE]Guess which one GG will do everything in their power to make their voice as heard as loudly as possible?[/QUOTE]
That's pretty much the point though, when people say they have the wholehearted support of minorities and it's a blatant lie, NYS is supposed to prove them wrong.
[QUOTE]This is why "anti-feminist-but-im-going-to-say-im-feminist-anyway" Christina Hoff Sommers has gained so much popularity.[/QUOTE]
I always wonder what the fuck people are getting this from. So far I haven't seen anything that could characterize CHS as being an "anti-feminist". Criticizing your peers is an efficient way of coming up with better policies, instead of all agreeing in unison to whatever narrative is the most popular. But I assume you're unfamiliar with this principle?
[QUOTE]Almost ever minority I know both personally and online that has said anything about GamerGate at all has spoken of it negatively.[/QUOTE]
I don't think anecdotal evidence has much weight against the hundreds of thousands of NYS supporters. If anything, that can be explained by the fact you seem to be hanging out with crowds that are favorable to the SJW mindset.
[QUOTE=uber.;47262213]If anything, take this from GamerGate: It all could have been easily dealt with within days. I'm serious. Honest to god. The only reason that GG is still going is that discussion has been shut down without any good reason, people have been banned without any good reason and reasonable people have been alienated, vilified and antagonised without any good reason. Most people who wanted to talk about GG didn't dox. They didn't harass. But because they have been labeled not only by mainstream media but also by their own media as scum of the earth they won't stop talking about it.
Everything has been reduced to ONE hashtag and that's why barely anyone is able to have a nuanced discussion about it. Gamerghazi will focus on harassment, KiA will focus on what's wrong with the industry. They're all talking past each other.
There is no clear definiton of what GG is and that invites idiots like Tim Schafer who like to kick around those dirty entitled gamer plebians when, frankly, they got biggers issues than GG.[/QUOTE]
Part of me thinks the game press wanted a fight so they could cement the idea that gamers were uncivilized, entitled, and sexist savages that need to be enlighted by the progressive game press. Of course, in retrospect, picking a fight with a bunch of nerds that are used to being bullied and are masters at Google-Fu was not exactly the wisest of ideas. But, when you're a depressed 20 or 30-something that desperatly wants to be seen as an art critic instead of a game reviewer or news-writer, you're not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed in the first place, despite the Tumblr effortposts you've read about *insert cause here*.
[QUOTE=Mister_Jack;47260745]The chat makes it almost bearable to watch.[/QUOTE]
Too bad it's missing in the VOD :(
A part of it also has been muted due to copyrighted content :v:
[QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]Ironically #Notyoursheild is a hashtag that is literally using minorities as a shield from accusations of racism sexism etc. But lets pretend that their aren't a large number of sock puppet minorities of [B][U]white male[/U][/B] Gamergators.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=_Axel;47262676][QUOTE=Snake7;47261829]Ironically #Notyoursheild is a hashtag that is literally using minorities as a shield from accusations of racism sexism etc. But lets pretend that their aren't a large number of sock puppet minorities of [U][B]Jew[/B][/U] Gamergators.[/QUOTE]There's a difference between using yourself as a shield to get your voice heard and having white trustfund assholes speak for you while suppressing you. If you don't understand the distinction here you're probably too deep in your own bias to notice that.[/QUOTE]
I was reading this post trying to figure out what on earth you two are actually arguing about when I noticed a little discrepancy here.
Oops.
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