Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
5,003 replies, posted
snip wrong thread.
Corruption in Gaming v3: half the fat of KIA and 8chan, but with all of the flavor.
Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V3 - Executive Producer: Dick Wolf
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;47285569]Indeed, its moved beyond just journalism. The whole gaming industry is rotten. Its getting close to the point its not about saving the orchard, its about saving the few good fruits before clearing it out and replanting.[/QUOTE]
It's early in the morning and my memory isn't that great. What corruption have we found that can't be traced to IGF, GJP journalists spinning a narrative or companies they work for like UBM and Gawker? Saying we want to root out corruption in the whole industry gives me a vibe that's a bit... I dunno, witch hunt-y? I just want to know what we have to justify changing it from 'Gaming Journalism' to the 'Gaming Industry'
Corruption in gaming v3: This is still a thing
Corruption in Gaming V3: Brought to you by Johnson and n
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;47285547]That's violence though. It's fallacious to think that would automatically apply to sexism unless there were studies done about that as well.
But I thought it was a commonly accepted thing that media, even fictional media, affects the way we think about things. I mean, it won't cause someone who is against sexism to suddenly become sexist, but it can affect impressionable people (like children) and it can reinforce the beliefs someone already has.[/QUOTE]
I think that's kind of the point, they treat adults like children who will emulate anything they see.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle
And there's still the fact that there is no proper research in regards to media causing sexism yet you have people repeating it like it is a proven fact.
I played Tomb Raider when I was 6, so why am I not a woman hating sexist?
Could it be there's other factors at stake and maybe if I had grown up in a different enviroment and with a different education I could have been a sexist regardless of whether I played video games?
[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;47286046]Corruption in gaming v3: This is still a thing[/QUOTE]
Was just about to post "Corruption in Gaming V3: Yes, this is still a thing.", damn you.
Corruption in Gaming V3: Your liberties end where my feelings begin
someone should make an updated OP for v3, for FP people who don't know to get updated.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;47285518]When did it become a gamergate talking point that sexism in the media can't cause sexism in real life? I mean, for adults that aren't already sexist it's true, but for children it can have an effect and for people who already have sexist beliefs, it can reinforce them. Most of you would agree with this, right?[/QUOTE]
Shifting the responsibility of beliefs and bias on the content creators when they themselves don't endorse such beliefs is nonsensical and trying to correct every instance of it would yield absurd results, since different people interpret things differently.
A journalist is responsible for what he writes because it's assumed to be an accurate depiction of the truth, and as a result taking liberties with it can result in misinformation. Artists and writers aren't supposed to conform to such rules when they work on fiction. People shouldn't assume dragons, elves, dwarves and magic exist because they read LOTR, the same goes for representation of women in fictional media. Starting to impose rules on fiction because idiots could construe it as being real is stupid and defeats the purpose of art.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;47285587]I actually don't think sexism in video games is a big problem, although there could be more good female protagonists (even though there's quite a few already). I'm talking about media as a whole, throughout history (not just now).[/QUOTE]
How is that a sexism problem and not an originality one? How are women treated unfairly in this case?
Also, if media causes sexism in people that are already sexist (eh), then what? We censor them? We start burning books too? All because it makes people without willpower more entrenched in their opinion?
..shit actually we might have to close most of facepunch's forums sections
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47285613]Maybe our focus in the next thread, right from the OP, can be to try and work out a solution that respects and advances women (basically non-insane feminism) while also defending creative expression and holding corrupt feet to the fire. And I think it can be done, but it'll require more than just us.
Anita is seen as the only option other than rapist etc gamers. GG needs to identify voices of reason that can pick up the torch and fight the fight Anita claims to be fighting, only with integrity. We need to steal the default-option silent majority out from under them with a sane alternative.
And by Gamergate I mean everyone sane on both sides - antis who are anti because of the trolling and harassment on Twitter and shit can probably agree with the pro side on many things if we imagine that the debate had always featured mature grown adults arguing their desires for change with rational supported arguments and proper communication skills, and had never involved trolling and mandatory groupthink. Where the debate needs to be is what to do about it, because that's where the sides differ the most. A lot of animosity has been created between the two sides of the argument over drama and dumb bickering, and agg poisoned the well almost immediately in order to get GG stuck in mud, and here we are, months later, still fighting fundamentally the same things over and over.
There's a chance that we can build momentum for a rational feminist message that can swallow up the moderates who have nowhere else to go but Tim's Puppet Palace. And I earnestly mean that we support the voices of sane women, so we can snatch the conversation away from the corrupt and the insane pits of Twitter and Reddit.
FP has a neutral-ground support-your-shit-if-called-on-it kind of policy, so I believe we could make some progress. We could invite some moderate agg'ers and some of the more prominent and involved (but not, to our knowledge, FPers, hi Xavier) pro-GGers here, but eventually it's going to have to go beyond FP and go into the arena of public opinion. We'd need to develop a solid message and get videos about it, good ones that can do what FemFreq never would.
The digging into corruption would continue, mind, I'm not looking to stop that, just take the wind out of the opposition's sails.
Maybe I'm an optimist, but we're one of the few open debate territories left where mods will not ban anyone for opinion, only shitposting. A new thread would be the perfect time to commit to a new focus and try to shorten this bullshit. AGG will eventually eat itself but they'll be able to keep going for ages on deception and manipulation.[/QUOTE]
Anita's stance assumes that representation of women in media is important and that handling it a certain way can result in legitimate sexism, ie unfair treatment of women. If you wish to propose a rational alternative to her school of thought, you have to address this point first and foremost, and so far I haven't seen any argument on the entirety of the internet that could reasonably support this theory.
Alternatively you could start criticising female representation in games like you would any other aspect of a piece of art, but then claiming you're fighting sexism by doing so would be intellectually dishonest.
[t]http://puu.sh/gsWoQ/0a5fa26c17.png[/t]
[url]https://twitter.com/indiedevil/status/574880967443288064[/url]
[t]http://puu.sh/gsWq8/a39781bfc8.png[/t]
[url]https://twitter.com/indiedevil/status/574882438796697601[/url]
I can't tell if he did it on purpose it it was in fact a mistake.
But damn, if it didn't make me laugh.
Note: I don't have anything against people wearing female clothes or Trans people all together. I just thought it was funny.
i just imagine yuji as this innocent guy who pokes fun at anyone who's got a few sticks up their ass
[QUOTE=Xonax;47286146]Note: I don't have anything against people wearing female clothes or Trans people all together. I just thought it was funny.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you need to put such a disclaimer here. I don't believe anybody could interpret that post as transphobic.
[QUOTE=LeonS;47286156]i just imagine yuji as this innocent guy who pokes fun at anyone who's got a few sticks up their ass[/QUOTE]
He is awesome.
[img]http://puu.sh/gsWCj/8c02c59bc1.png[/img]
He is like that awesome friend everyone wants to hang out with, but can't since you don't think you are good enough to be friends with him.
[editline]9th March 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=_Axel;47286163]I don't think you need to put such a disclaimer here. I don't believe anybody could interpret that post as transphobic.[/QUOTE]
I am just use to seeing SJW's go crazy over small stuff like that, so sometimes I put a disclaimer on the little things to avoid being bombed, even if it is not required.
[QUOTE=Xonax;47286169]I am just use to seeing SJW's go crazy over small stuff like that, so sometimes I put a disclaimer on the little things to avoid being bombed, even if it is not required.[/QUOTE]
Better safe than sorry, I guess. But that's really telling of the witch hunt mentality they adopt along with their lack of reading comprehension.
[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;47285278]The lack self awareness with r/gamerghazi/Neogaf/AGG is astounding, "TB sics his audience at AGG" when in fact that is a common tactic with AGG.[/QUOTE]
There are no bad tactics only bad targets.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;47286223]There are no bad tactics only bad targets.[/QUOTE]
A few months or years later:
"Why does everyone hate our movement!?!???!?!?"
[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;47285278]The lack self awareness with r/gamerghazi/Neogaf/AGG is astounding, "TB sics his audience at AGG" when in fact that is a common tactic with AGG.[/QUOTE]
While we're at it, here's Gav from miracle of sound a while ago:
[url]https://twitter.com/miracleofsound/status/559986484619796481[/url]
[QUOTE]For example this week I had a tonne of Brianna's followers dogpile me simply for being mentioned in a tweet. Utter insanity.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://twitter.com/miracleofsound/status/559992176047034369[/url]
[QUOTE]This week: Brianna attacks TB. TB responds in EXACTLY the same manner but he's called the 'harasser'[/QUOTE]
[url]https://twitter.com/miracleofsound/status/559993476289683456[/url]
[QUOTE]I also didn't see Brianna ask her followers to stop dogpiling me for no reason when I tweeted her about it.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;47285641]When I said sexism isn't a problem in the gaming industry, I need to take that back. Sexism is a problem at the publisher level. For some reason there are publishers that think that, for instance, female characters don't sell and therefore shouldn't be protagonists, and shouldn't be on cover art. That's a problem.[/QUOTE]
I really dont understand this kind of thinking.
Has that ever actually seriously effected a games sales?
I mean Tomb Raider is still big, right? The last game sold somewhere over 7.5 million copies total as of last month.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;47285641]When I said sexism isn't a problem in the gaming industry, I need to take that back. Sexism is a problem at the publisher level. For some reason there are publishers that think that, for instance, female characters don't sell and therefore shouldn't be protagonists, and shouldn't be on cover art. That's a problem.[/QUOTE]
We had that with Last Of Us and Remember Me. But it's important to always keep in mind that the argument is "Publishers are thinking they won't sell." and not "They won't sell". This is a problem that lies within some triple A publishers and not the audience.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;47286741]I really dont understand this kind of thinking.
Has that ever actually seriously effected a games sales?
I mean Tomb Raider is still big, right? The last game sold somewhere over 7.5 million copies total as of last month.[/QUOTE]
Probably executives unfamiliar with the gaming scene who try to apply the same logic as in other sectors.
Corruption in Gaming V3 - Authoritarian Left 101 guide to trick the media into thinking Libertarian Lefts are the new Right Wing.
Corruption in Gaming Thread V3 Redchanit and n
Corruption in Gaming Industry: Subtitle Censored by Redchanit
corruption in gaming: smartasses making shitty titles
Corruption in gaming: episode 3 Revenge of the gaming elite
Corruption in gaming v.3: Tim Schafer's sockpuppets.
Corruption in Gaming v3: We killed the other thread with suggestions for this one
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