Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
5,003 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Fangz;46996406]He was the original attack from Wu if you are curious:
[img]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b196/Starmenclock/B8DXmfUCMAAKKtB_zpsb0d0c95d.png[/img][/QUOTE]
This really looks bad tbh
If I hadn't known the context, I would have probably thought that TB is making fun of transexuals too
like, you know how there used to be a time on facepunch when every article in SH about transgenders stuff had like 30 people saying stuff like "I identify as a rock, accept me or you're tranphobic" ect.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46996943]I'm a binary trans person but I support non-binary trans people as well as alternative pronouns. I think that what TB said was a bit callous but at the very most I'd call it ignorant, rather than outright 'transphobic spew'. It's closer to Grandma calling black people 'Negroes' than the KKK. If TB respects the right of non-binary people to exist and identify themselves how they wish, I don't think there's really a problem though- but I'd rather that he clarify it at some point.[/QUOTE]
Jamsponge.
Dont be that guy.
Nobody like that guy.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;46996974]Honestly calling yourself anything but legitimate genders (in the middle might be okayish) is outright silly, which is why people make fun of it.
Like, your gender isn't a physical object. That's just stupid. If you want to call yourself that - fine. But be prepared for mockery, and if you try to force people to call you by that, prepare for even more mockery and pissed off people who think you are dumb.[/QUOTE]
In a society which is trying to rid itself of gender roles, calling yourself a demiboy or a whatever-the-fuck is just as arbitrary as calling yourself a man or woman.
[editline]23rd January 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=AaronM202;46996997]Jamsponge.
Dont be that guy.
Nobody like that guy.[/QUOTE]
The guy who says we should be nice to people who haven't done anything to hurt us rather than mock them?
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46996976]Hate to say it, but... and? There's as much point to them as there is to 'he' and 'she'. For one thing, with alternative pronouns it can allow for some clarification in much the same way 'he' and 'she' already does. Some people just don't like the gender binary and I think there's no point in not allowing alternative pronouns.
So what if they make people special? It doesn't exactly harm anybody, does it? I don't think it's any more effort than learning somebody's name.[/QUOTE]
It's just stupid. Your a male, a female or something inbetween. Your gender isn't physical or metaphorical object, and acting like you are and showing it off like your unique is just kind of dumb.
How long until we have multiple genders at once, and we have to remember all those as to not hurt your feelings?
[editline]a[/editline]
P.S My gender is clock, I am a chocosexual and I expect you all to use the pronoun "bip" "zip" and "tit" when you talk about me.
[editline]a[/editline]
I literally made none of that up, google them.
Jamsponge, chill out. No one is trying to attack you, we don't have anything againt the concept of non-binary genders themselves, we just think it's a bit hilarious how creative tumblurers can be in inventing fancy names for them
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46996976]Hate to say it, but... and? There's as much point to them as there is to 'he' and 'she'. For one thing, with alternative pronouns it can allow for some clarification in much the same way 'he' and 'she' already does. Some people just don't like the gender binary and I think there's no point in not allowing alternative pronouns.[/QUOTE]
He and She are differentiating man and woman, who are very distinct biologically and appearance wise.
Truth be told, im not exactly well versed on the subject, but it seems like a... well, special snowflake kind of thing, no offense.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46996976]So what if they make people special? It doesn't exactly harm anybody, does it? I don't think it's any more effort than learning somebody's name.[/QUOTE] Its pretentious. And unecessary.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46996976]
Toast isn't a gender but that isn't the point. Using abstraction to represent another situation is hardly uncommon, see the fake Shrek fandom which was formed to mock bronies. Not necessarily saying this is to mock nb people but I legitimately see no harm in adding a bit more variety to the gender spectrum.[/QUOTE]
I think he was just making fun of the dumb shit you see every day on tumblr because someone wants to feel like they're more unique than your average Joe Blow.
Assigning yourself a gender based off of (presumably) behavioral quirks kinda backs up the idea of "gender roles".
AKA im saying something that was said in another thread, cause it kinda made sense.
Like, it seems kinda pointless and confusing.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46996943]I'm a binary trans person but I support non-binary trans people as well as alternative pronouns. I think that what TB said was a bit callous but at the very most I'd call it ignorant, rather than outright 'transphobic spew'. It's closer to Grandma calling black people 'Negroes' than the KKK. If TB respects the right of non-binary people to exist and identify themselves how they wish, I don't think there's really a problem though- but I'd rather that he clarify it at some point.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry to have to disagree with you here, but what he said was pretty on point. I'm fully 100% for trans people and their rights, and making a "toast gender" joke isn't at their expense as the people who really do identify as these strange non human non gender definitions are the ones making trans people look like some kind of joke.
There's no reason otherkin should be shown respect as there's nothing related to otherkin and genuine trans people.
[editline]23rd January 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46996998]In a society which is trying to rid itself of gender roles, calling yourself a demiboy or a whatever-the-fuck is just as arbitrary as calling yourself a man or woman.
[editline]23rd January 2015[/editline]
The guy who says we should be nice to people who haven't done anything to hurt us rather than mock them?[/QUOTE]
we may be trying to get rid of traditional gender roles but we're not trying to abolish them as a whole. You can't realistically be in between genders or a non human gender. It's just not really something that's possible. Gender roles serve some small purpose but the way they're dealt with now is certainly wrong, but going with these ideas of the otherkin or alike is not really the way to go in my honest opinion.
I identify as an agender, asexually reproducing shoelace Aglet, and your mockery of that which my master eats is triggering me.
[u][i][b]BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIINNNNNNN!!!!!![/b][/i][/u]
[url]http://techraptor.net/content/crash-override-network-not-saviour[/url]
I didn't know literally who made Georgina Young cry.
I think what everybody is trying to get at is that nobody cares what gender you are, and are going to call you by "he" or "she" no matter what. It's an incredible annoyance to adjust your speech for each "non-binary" gender, and frankly completely unnecessary and more like a fantasy.
You can stop with the "I am an X" jokes now.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;46997024][B]He and She are differentiating man and woman, who are very distinct biologically and appearance wise.
[/B]Truth be told, im not exactly well versed on the subject, but it seems like a... well, special snowflake kind of thing, no offense.
Its pretentious. And unecessary.
I think he was just making fun of the dumb shit you see every day on tumblr because someone wants to feel like they're more unique than your average Joe Blow.[/QUOTE]
This is the reason why so many trans people feel uncomfortable every day- because people refuse to let go of the idea that men and women must be like this and anybody who acts otherwise is just an anomaly, rather than admitting that, whilst often broadly similar, AMAB and AFAB people hugely vary in terms of personality and appearance.
Just to clarify, I don't feel attacked here. I'm not trying to be hostile or anything; in fact, I don't want to seem hostile at all. I just don't personally see why there's an issue with people making up new words when that is just something which has to happen when somebody comes up with a new thing. 200 years ago, 'bisexual' was just as fictional a word, and 100 years ago everybody would have laughed if you'd called a woman 'Ms'. I don't see any reason for non-binary genders not to exist, and I don't really see why you guys are getting quite so worked up about it when I'm just being fairly calm and rational about my opinions. I respect your right to think these people are being special snowflakes, but to me it's no different than any other way of individualising oneself.
[editline]23rd January 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46997025]I'm sorry to have to disagree with you here, but what he said was pretty on point. I'm fully 100% for trans people and their rights, and making a "toast gender" joke isn't at their expense as the people who really do identify as these strange non human non gender definitions are the ones making trans people look like some kind of joke.
There's no reason otherkin should be shown respect as there's nothing related to otherkin and genuine trans people.
[editline]23rd January 2015[/editline]
we may be trying to get rid of traditional gender roles but we're not trying to abolish them as a whole. You can't realistically be in between genders or a non human gender. It's just not really something that's possible. Gender roles serve some small purpose but the way they're dealt with now is certainly wrong, but going with these ideas of the otherkin or alike is not really the way to go in my honest opinion.[/QUOTE]
Gender is entirely invented by society as a way of explaining and enforcing how people are meant to act. NB people exist, essentially, because they don't like being told how to live their lives down to a T. Abolish gender roles, and gender- and even pronouns- don't have to be a concern any more.
[editline]23rd January 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;46997054]People have more problems with people just doing it for attention than people that do it legit. Like cool that you use gender-neutral pronouns, but don't get all aggressive about it. But I'm not going to remember all these pronouns for different people while I already have enough problems with names (or other small bits of information).
Its also a bit of a non issues, I don't degraded, oppress, thinkless, want to offend or harm anyone when I use the default he or she. There are times where its okay to go with the flow and under friends use the zhe or whatever you want.
And a lot are just misunderstanding Jamsponge's post (like I did) and making them look a bit like fools.[/QUOTE]
I think most reasonable people will forgive you for an accidental misgender. They just often won't like it if you seem to constantly refuse to learn, in the same way people get annoyed when you haven't learnt their name after a year. If you struggle with names and things like that though, I'm sure, once again, that reasonable people will understand.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46997064]This is the reason why so many trans people feel uncomfortable every day- because people refuse to let go of the idea that men and women must be like this and anybody who acts otherwise is just an anomaly, rather than admitting that, whilst often broadly similar, AMAB and AFAB people hugely vary in terms of personality and appearance.
Just to clarify, I don't feel attacked here. I'm not trying to be hostile or anything; in fact, I don't want to seem hostile at all. I just don't personally see why there's an issue with people making up new words when that is just something which has to happen when somebody comes up with a new thing. 200 years ago, 'bisexual' was just as fictional a word, and 100 years ago everybody would have laughed if you'd called a woman 'Ms'. I don't see any reason for non-binary genders not to exist, and I don't really see why you guys are getting quite so worked up about it when I'm just being fairly calm and rational about my opinions. I respect your right to think these people are being special snowflakes, but to me it's no different than any other way of individualising oneself.[/QUOTE]
Okay. We don't need a million genders, specially ones that are literal fantasy. Bisexual can make sense, having masculine and feminine traits makes sense. Trans people shouldn't feel uncomfortable because people are identifying as mayonnaise or Pluto or some stupid ass shit like that.
There is no physical or mental way you can be Pluto. As soon as people try to force you to call them by that it's just stupid. Really really stupid.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46997064]This is the reason why so many trans people feel uncomfortable every day- because people refuse to let go of the idea that men and women must be like this and anybody who acts otherwise is just an anomaly, rather than admitting that, whilst often broadly similar, AMAB and AFAB people hugely vary in terms of personality and appearance.
Just to clarify, I don't feel attacked here. I'm not trying to be hostile or anything; in fact, I don't want to seem hostile at all. I just don't personally see why there's an issue with people making up new words when that is just something which has to happen when somebody comes up with a new thing. 200 years ago, 'bisexual' was just as fictional a word, and 100 years ago everybody would have laughed if you'd called a woman 'Ms'. I don't see any reason for non-binary genders not to exist, and I don't really see why you guys are getting quite so worked up about it when I'm just being fairly calm and rational about my opinions. I respect your right to think these people are being special snowflakes, but to me it's no different than any other way of individualising oneself.[/QUOTE]
I'd like to think that there's no need for invented genders as they don't do anything. What does that invented gender do for someone? Places them in a new class of human beings? Okay. Gives them a personally satisfactory identifier? Okay, but just because it makes you happy doesn't mean it's a real thing, does it? What's does it really do for us to lend creedence to these ideas when there's not really anything to it?
Sure, bisexuality may not have been a thing a hundred years ago, as a word, but it certainly existed as an act and as a thought and as a standard. There's evidence of transsexuals, gays, lesbians, bisexuality across history. There is no evidence of someone being a wolf, a toast, or anything else along those lines.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46997064]Gender is [B]entirely[/B] invented by society.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but I always have a sligth bone to pick with this wording
I mean, the sexual hormones that primarily define the two sexes /do/ effect behaviour, in significant ways. Even without the preconcieved notions of gender piled on top, males and females are more predisposed to certain behaviours than the other. Gender as a social construct is a further development/exaggeration of these predispositions.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46997064]Gender is entirely invented by society as a way of explaining and enforcing how people are meant to act.[/QUOTE]
Ok no I have a problem with this
Gender is not a social construct, it's a biological trait. Feel free to identify as whatever you want but let's not make things up here
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46997064]
Gender is entirely invented by society as a way of explaining and enforcing how people are meant to act. NB people exist, essentially, because they don't like being told how to live their lives down to a T. Abolish gender roles, and gender- and even pronouns- don't have to be a concern any more.
[/QUOTE]
I don't adhere to traditionally manly traits, or traditionally female traits, but I wouldn't bother describing myself as non binary and having to create a unique word for me. I know who I am and I don't need to create a gender to be confident in who I am or what I do. There's no reason for us to use and create a nonbinary term for everyone so they can feel special when they're just normal people.
Taking the idea of binary genders too far is harming everyone and I feel like way too many people have way overthought what it even means.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;46997084]Okay. We don't need a million genders, specially ones that are literal fantasy. Bisexual can make sense, having masculine and feminine traits makes sense. Trans people shouldn't feel uncomfortable because people are identifying as mayonnaise or Pluto or some stupid ass shit like that.
There is no physical or mental way you can be Pluto. As soon as people try to force you to call them by that it's just stupid. Really really stupid.[/QUOTE]
I don't think many trans people do feel uncomfortable because of NB people. I don't represent them all but I feel like the only thing which makes me uncomfortable is when people... uhh... y'know, make me uncomfortable. Like by misgendering me or calling me a man just because I'm scared to 'dress like a girl' (which is another bullshit thing, but that's a whole 'nother story). Obviously, you can't literally be Pluto, but once again- what harm does it do other than you thinking it's weird? Go ahead, think it's weird. I think it's weird how some people still can't get their heads around the fact that I'm a girl despite me telling them on numerous occasions, and thinking that my gender is a matter of their own comfort rather than my inalterable feelings, but I'm not going to force cis people to not misgender me. Primarily because I can't, but still.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46997064]This is the reason why so many trans people feel uncomfortable every day- because people refuse to let go of the idea that men and women must be like this and [b]anybody who acts otherwise is just an anomaly[/b], rather than admitting that, whilst often broadly similar, AMAB and AFAB people hugely vary in terms of personality and appearance.
[/QUOTE]
Can i point out a key word here? "Acts"
Now, dont take this the wrong way, but personally, i feel like the way you ACT and the way you appear should be classed entirely seperate from eachother.
You were just talking about gender roles, right? I feel like including how people ACT in determining their gender is kind of counter productive in that regard.
Alright alright, I think we are getting off topic now.
We get it some people think of genders as different things, was totalbiscut right about making that joke?
Honestly, probably. It had nothing to do with transphobia, he was just making fun of ridiculous genders that people make up, and was immediately jumped on for it.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46997064]
Gender is entirely invented by society as a way of explaining and enforcing how people are meant to act. NB people exist, essentially, because they don't like being told how to live their lives down to a T. Abolish gender roles, and gender- and even pronouns- don't have to be a concern any more.
[/QUOTE]
If "Gender is entirely invented by society", then how are there transsexual people? Surely if there were no physical foundations of gender, a person raised to be a man would never thought that he could be a woman, let feel a desire to change his sex so strong that is could lead to a depression, right?
I'm a bit concerned that this is going to become a shitstorm, and as the discussion thus far seems to be everybody else VS me I'd say it's safe to acknowledge that this is not the best place for a reasonable debate. Thank you all for your opinions, though.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;46997124]Alright alright, I think we are getting off topic now.
[/QUOTE]
Let's get back to actual corruption and less about non-binary genders. If people want to argue about it some more, take it to PMs.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46997128]I'm a bit concerned that this is going to become a shitstorm, and as the discussion thus far seems to be everybody else VS me I'd say it's safe to acknowledge that this is not the best place for a reasonable debate. Thank you all for your opinions, though.[/QUOTE]
Shitstorm?
Seemed pretty civil to me.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46997064]This is the reason why so many trans people feel uncomfortable every day- because people refuse to let go of the idea that men and women must be like this and anybody who acts otherwise is just an anomaly, rather than admitting that, whilst often broadly similar, AMAB and AFAB people hugely vary in terms of personality and appearance.
Just to clarify, I don't feel attacked here. I'm not trying to be hostile or anything; in fact, I don't want to seem hostile at all. I just don't personally see why there's an issue with people making up new words when that is just something which has to happen when somebody comes up with a new thing. 200 years ago, 'bisexual' was just as fictional a word, and 100 years ago everybody would have laughed if you'd called a woman 'Ms'. I don't see any reason for non-binary genders not to exist, and I don't really see why you guys are getting quite so worked up about it when I'm just being fairly calm and rational about my opinions. I respect your right to think these people are being special snowflakes, but to me it's no different than any other way of individualising oneself.
[editline]23rd January 2015[/editline]
Gender is entirely invented by society as a way of explaining and enforcing how people are meant to act. NB people exist, essentially, because they don't like being told how to live their lives down to a T. Abolish gender roles, and gender- and even pronouns- don't have to be a concern any more.
[editline]23rd January 2015[/editline]
I think most reasonable people will forgive you for an accidental misgender. They just often won't like it if you seem to constantly refuse to learn, in the same way people get annoyed when you haven't learnt their name after a year. If you struggle with names and things like that though, I'm sure, once again, that reasonable people will understand.[/QUOTE]
Until you become a writer.
I can't and will not ever be able to identify with you the issues you must face. I also cannot for the life of me figure out how to write a good fiction piece in a non-gendered way.Especially once you get into dialogue.
Lets not even get into the romance languages which would have to be completely re-written from the ground up. Its going to be a tough task and I do wish there was an easier solution and maybe there is one but very few can see that far into the future when it comes to the relatively new space of non-binary genders.
I also don't even understand completely the entire spectrum so I was also writing from an ignorant place trying to see if I could at least attempt it.
But that's neither here nor there, I doubt TotalB meant any offence by it and if he did we call him out on it.
-FUCKING AUTOMERGE GOD DAMMIT0
[QUOTE=AaronM202;46997135]Shitstorm?
Seemed pretty civil to me.[/QUOTE]
"this is going to become a shitstorm"
And he/she is totally right - we GET it guys.
-God dammit-
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46997120]I don't think many trans people do feel uncomfortable because of NB people. I don't represent them all but I feel like the only thing which makes me uncomfortable is when people... uhh... y'know, make me uncomfortable. Like by misgendering me or calling me a man just because I'm scared to 'dress like a girl' (which is another bullshit thing, but that's a whole 'nother story). Obviously, you can't literally be Pluto, but once again- what harm does it do other than you thinking it's weird? Go ahead, think it's weird. I think it's weird how some people still can't get their heads around the fact that I'm a girl despite me telling them on numerous occasions, and thinking that my gender is a matter of their own comfort rather than my inalterable feelings, but I'm not going to force cis people to not misgender me. Primarily because I can't, but still.[/QUOTE]
But what does identifying as pluto DO for you? What does it do other than potentially alienate other people when you tell them who you are and what you identify as? You can of course call those people closeminded and stupid, and sure nothing is hurting them, but nothing is being accomplished either. It's entirely pointless self inflating act as far as I can tell.
I don't agree with "gender roles" as they are, but I don't think anything is accomplished in trying to rid ourselves of them by taking steps to have people identify as things that they can't be at all.
Stoop pleeaase.
We bloody get the point.
She said she isn't posting anymore about the topic.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;46997139]"this is going to become a shitstorm"
And he/she is totally right - we GET it guys.[/QUOTE]
For future reference, she, but thank you.
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