Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
5,003 replies, posted
This just appeared in my inbox: [URL="https://archive.today/m4uVk"]GamerGate Wikipedia Ruling Bans Harassed Feminist Editors, Outrage Ensues (Inquisitr)[/URL]
It's really weird. The article itself pushes the "it's misogyny" line but every single Twitter quote either is relatively neutral or outright contradicts the main text.
[editline]edit[/editline]
The FB post in the last quote is interesting: [url]https://archive.today/aPwog[/url]
[QUOTE=Tamschi;47012075]This just appeared in my inbox: [URL="https://archive.today/m4uVk"]GamerGate Wikipedia Ruling Bans Harassed Feminist Editors, Outrage Ensues (Inquisitr)[/URL]
It's really weird. The article itself pushes the "it's misogyny" line but every single Twitter quote either is relatively neutral or outright contradicts the main text.[/QUOTE]
god damn all these publications are so shitty at spinning a story that it's laughable.
[QUOTE=1239the;47012088]god damn all these publications are so shitty at spinning a story that it's laughable.[/QUOTE]
It's probably because Wikipedia has an overall relatively good reputation and is well known. It's extremely difficult to slander it.
Last week I went over to get a burger from Five Guys (HAR HAR HAR) and checked out a Gamestop over at an outdoors shopping mall near me. During that trip, I saw:
*An interracial couple with a black woman and a white guy.
*A racially mixed family that had a black dad and a white mom.
*A black woman entering a Gamestop while I was leaving it.
*Slightly more blacks than were whites in the part of the mall I visisted.
*Both employees at the Gamestop were women.
*A majority of the customers at the Gamestop were women right before I left.
I'm positive I saw more diveristy in 30 or so minutes than most anti-GGs do in an entire week in their expensive and/or gentrified neighbourhoods. I live in the southern part of the USA.
[QUOTE=Ziron;47012240]
I'm positive I saw more diveristy in 30 or so minutes than most anti-GGs do in an entire week in their expensive and/or gentrified neighbourhoods. I live in the southern part of the USA.[/QUOTE]
Anti gamers have internalized minorities and oppression
Like I wish I was joking, literally blue called herself a minority some time ago
[QUOTE=Ziron;47012240]Last week I went over to get a burger from Five Guys (HAR HAR HAR) and checked out a Gamestop over at an outdoors shopping mall near me. During that trip, I saw:
*An interracial couple with a black woman and a white guy.
*A racially mixed family that had a black dad and a white mom.
*A black woman entering a Gamestop while I was leaving it.
*Slightly more blacks than were whites in the part of the mall I visisted.
*Both employees at the Gamestop were women.
*A majority of the customers at the Gamestop were women right before I left.
I'm positive I saw more diveristy in 30 or so minutes than most anti-GGs do in an entire week in their expensive and/or gentrified neighbourhoods. I live in the southern part of the USA.[/QUOTE]
I also never understood the whole "nerds don't want girls in their clubhouse" argument. I mean, yeah, sure, that might apply to kids but I'm 23 years old and I would love to have a girlfriend that shares the same passion for the hobby that I have.
[QUOTE=uber.;47012869]I also never understood the whole "nerds don't want girls in their clubhouse" argument. I mean, yeah, sure, that might apply to kids but I'm 23 years old and I would love to have a girlfriend that shares the same passion for the hobby that I have.[/QUOTE]
Also there are expo groups full of nerds on Facebook and I swear it's like mostly girls
[QUOTE=uber.;47012869]I also never understood the whole "nerds don't want girls in their clubhouse" argument. I mean, yeah, sure, that might apply to kids but I'm 23 years old and I would love to have a girlfriend that shares the same passion for the hobby that I have.[/QUOTE]
If there's one thing I want for AGG to stop having, it's their perceived superiority that they've gotten from arguing against strawmen that they've made.
[QUOTE=hakimhakim;47011887]In the meantime, in one of The Guardian articles regarding MGSV.......
"Skullface then offers up Paz to Chico, like a piece of food on a plate ready for his consumption with no personal autonomy or voice of her own. This interaction is extremely Oedipal, like the father handing over his sexual, phallic power to his son and allowing him to realise his Oedipal desire for his mother (in this case, with Paz as the role of the mother due to the age gap between Paz and Chico)."
Listen and believe[/QUOTE]
Jesus christ.
Knowing the actual context of the scene he's referring to, thats just wrong.
[QUOTE=Ziron;47012240]Last week I went over to get a burger from Five Guys (HAR HAR HAR) and checked out a Gamestop over at an outdoors shopping mall near me. During that trip, I saw:
*An interracial couple with a black woman and a white guy.
*A racially mixed family that had a black dad and a white mom.
*A black woman entering a Gamestop while I was leaving it.
*Slightly more blacks than were whites in the part of the mall I visisted.
*Both employees at the Gamestop were women.
*A majority of the customers at the Gamestop were women right before I left.
I'm positive I saw more diveristy in 30 or so minutes than most anti-GGs do in an entire week in their expensive and/or gentrified neighbourhoods. I live in the southern part of the USA.[/QUOTE]
The white males were probably busy harassing women over the Internet obviously. The white females were probably all being locked in a cupboard somewhere for trying to play a video game around a man.
[QUOTE=Wii60;47011927][url]http://8ch.net/gamergate/res/277887.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Any confirmation who said it?
I tried to find out what this is all about, but the more I read up on it, the more convoluted it all seems. I'm getting the feeling that, whatever it started out as, it is now mostly a huge amount of bickering and pointing blame over non-issues.
[url=http://jumbso.itch.io/totalbiscuitquest]Totalbiscuit Quest[/url] - The SJW text RPG where you must be as offensive and privileged as possible to prove you are Totalbiscuit and win the game.
Try it, it's good for a laugh.
If someone had told me it was a parody, I'd have believed them.
[QUOTE=Don Merino;47013403]I tried to find out what this is all about, but the more I read up on it, the more convoluted it all seems. I'm getting the feeling that, whatever it started out as, it is now mostly a huge amount of bickering and pointing blame over non-issues.[/QUOTE]
Reviewers getting money to guarantee the lowest score is 7.5 / 10 isn't a non-issue.
Neither is games being outright given shit scores because they were made by someone who didn't agree 100% with the author on a civil rights issue.
[editline]26th January 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Wii60;47011927][url]http://8ch.net/gamergate/res/277887.html[/url][/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3BSTm6jfsI[/url]
Here it is, at 16:10 or so.
Blowback is a good term to apply to some of the happenings here.
[QUOTE=V12US;47013485][url=http://jumbso.itch.io/totalbiscuitquest]Totalbiscuit Quest[/url] - The SJW text RPG where you must be as offensive and privileged as possible to prove you are Totalbiscuit and win the game.
Try it, it's good for a laugh.
If someone had told me it was a parody, I'd have believed them.[/QUOTE]
FoV sliders and IQ of 155. Much funny, very laugh. Wow. xD
[QUOTE=V12US;47013485][url=http://jumbso.itch.io/totalbiscuitquest]Totalbiscuit Quest[/url] - The SJW text RPG where you must be as offensive and privileged as possible to prove you are Totalbiscuit and win the game.
Try it, it's good for a laugh.
If someone had told me it was a parody, I'd have believed them.[/QUOTE]
Is TB aware of it yet?
We apparently got removed off the list of people for gamergate because we do nothing :U
Welp, whatever.
[QUOTE=Don Merino;47013403]I tried to find out what this is all about, but the more I read up on it, the more convoluted it all seems. I'm getting the feeling that, whatever it started out as, it is now mostly a huge amount of bickering and pointing blame over non-issues.[/QUOTE]
Ive also been lurking this thread and exploring /gamergate/ and have come to absolutely no conclusion.
So people are doxxing and harassing and generally being absolutely terrible to each other over game review scores?
[editline]26th January 2015[/editline]
The term "SJW" also seems to be very open, there are some pretty disgusting opinions on /gamergate/ and this narrative seems to cross over into the racist cesspool of scum that is /pol/.
[QUOTE=Harry3;47013820]Ive also been lurking this thread and exploring /gamergate/ and have come to absolutely no conclusion.
So people are doxxing and harassing and generally being absolutely terrible to each other over game review scores?
[editline]26th January 2015[/editline]
The term "SJW" also seems to be very open, there are some pretty disgusting opinions on /gamergate/ and this narrative seems to cross over into the racist cesspool of scum that is /pol/.[/QUOTE]
I fail to see the same thing as you. Doxxing and harassing is pretty much the antithesis of what GG is about. It's also explicitly forbidden on /gamergate/. If that's the impression you got by lurking on it then I find it quite alarming.
I also don't see the problem with using SJW if it's used to decry the hypocritical "activists" who plague social progression.
No, people are being absolutely terrible to one another because that's the internet and corrupt game journalists saw fit to blame it (without any evidence) on the people who are uncovering the corruption in games media to cover their collective asses
Also don't go to 8chan expecting to take anything seriously, if you want a proper outlook go to kotakuinaction
[QUOTE=V12US;47013485][url=http://jumbso.itch.io/totalbiscuitquest]Totalbiscuit Quest[/url] - The SJW text RPG where you must be as offensive and privileged as possible to prove you are Totalbiscuit and win the game.
Try it, it's good for a laugh.
If someone had told me it was a parody, I'd have believed them.[/QUOTE]
"You decide to leave it alone - after all, you're a privileged white male, and what would you know about oppression?"
I can't even, this is supposed to be the "right" answer...
[QUOTE=Harry3;47013820]Ive also been lurking this thread and exploring /gamergate/ and have come to absolutely no conclusion.
So people are doxxing and harassing and generally being absolutely terrible to each other over game review scores?[/QUOTE]
It's hard to take comments like this seriously because it seems like you're intentionally trying to form your own negative impression that paints all parties involved as dumb. It's like looking at a political race for your nation and going, "Welp, the candidates are both cry babies anyways." It may even be true, but it ignores the critical issues. Critical issues which certainly have profound effects.
There is an insular group of games journalists. They have a social agenda. They have a large command of journalistic power.
There is strong evidence of them not only pushing that agenda for financial gain, but for the financial ruin of those they feel are against it.
This in turn affects the entire games industry, since games sales are often very neatly tied to their scores, their awards and their accolades. It's elitist and out of touch with the facts to say, "Well if consumers wanted better then they should be more careful about which reviews they trust." It's like accusing children of being stupid for believing what they read in text books, that is, the authoritative commentary and informational medium.
GamerGate is in response to the clear, unethical collusion of these journalists, who in turn tried to push back against their critics.
The products of GamerGate since then have been a largely decentralized campaign. Some people focus on narrow issues (journalistic ethics, games reviews ethics) and some focus on broader issues (keeping politics out of game making, ensuring neutrality for game designers.)
It has spurred a lot of contentious discussion about Race, Gender and Class politics and the way they are handled. For instance is it right for a white college student to dictate what the opinion of a black person who has no education should be? What if that student really does know what is best? Can that student also push for broader changes to the way society has arranged itself?
There are people in the games industry who are clearly engaged in something like fraud if it isn't, like Grace Lynn. There are people participating in the games and game design industry who have engaged in illegal activity unbecoming of developers, like FreeBSDGirl.
These people appear to be using egalitarian rhetoric to shield themselves. That is wrong, no matter how you cut it.
It is a large issue. There are no simple answers. Simple summaries only capture fractions, shards and reflections at any one time. The movement has no leader, no set agenda, no goalposts or guidelines. It goes where the zeitgeist takes it and leaves effects in it's wake. It cost Gawker some large figure, and the FCC has enacted new regulations.
It is difficult for the issue not to be something you care about.
Pretending otherwise means you are either truly apathetic (in which case you would want your games to be free of corrosive influences and by default support the movement) or you've dug your heels in so you can be fashionably incapable of holding the wrong opinion.
[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;47013907]It's hard to take comments like this seriously because it seems like you're intentionally trying to form your own negative impression that paints all parties involved as dumb. It's like looking at a political race for your nation and going, "Welp, the candidates are both cry babies anyways." It may even be true, but it ignores the critical issues. Critical issues which certainly have profound effects.[/QUOTE]
Let's not get to the point where someone asking questions is automatically trying to start shit. The entire gamergate affair looks extremely ugly for an outsider, and whether it's a fair assessment or not it's certanly not surprising why someone who's not in the know would get that idea.
[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;47013940]Let's not get to the point where someone asking questions is automatically trying to start shit. The entire gamergate affair looks extremely ugly for an outsider, and whether it's a fair assessment or not it's certanly not surprising why someone who's not in the know would get that idea.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say that. I responded to it, I hope coherently and with useful information. But you've got to agree if someone comes in to it saying "I've looked and looked and all I see is shit!" that just sounds silly and provocative.
I did say it sounds like that poster was just trying to escape any form of meaningful commitment for or against.
I never said I didnt care, quite the opposite as Ive spent several hours over the last few days trying to make sense of the current "battle". In my defense while browsing 8chan its hard not to form a negative opinion of the whole thing, though maybe I shouldve known better than to browse any chan for accurate information... anywho, thanks for explaining.
[editline]26th January 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;47013956]I didn't say that. I responded to it, I hope coherently and with useful information. But you've got to agree if someone comes in to it saying "I've looked and looked and all I see is shit!" that just sounds silly and provocative.
I did say it sounds like that poster was just trying to escape any form of meaningful commitment for or against.[/QUOTE]
Im not going to commit to a side in an argument that looks like a mess and which I dont understand.
Ive never really paid attention to game journalism and a review score has never dictated what I purchase, however I understand that game awards and powerful figures in the industry can decide what games are successful and which ones even get produced, so I guess Im on your side.
[QUOTE=NoOnE#235;47013872]"You decide to leave it alone - after all, you're a privileged Jew, and what would you know about oppression?"
I can't even, this is supposed to be the "right" answer...[/QUOTE]
Man, those word replacement scripts are hilarious.
[QUOTE=Harry3;47013984]I never said I didnt care, quite the opposite as Ive spent several hours over the last few days trying to make sense of the current "battle". In my defense while browsing 8chan its hard not to form a negative opinion of the whole thing, though maybe I shouldve known better than to browse any chan for accurate information... anywho, thanks for explaining.
[editline]26th January 2015[/editline]
Im not going to commit to a side in an argument that looks like a mess and which I dont understand.
Ive never really paid attention to game journalism and a review score has never dictated what I purchase, however I understand that game awards and powerful figures in the industry can decide what games are successful and which ones even get produced, so I guess Im on your side.[/QUOTE]
I do get where you're coming from. A lot of the time I'd rather not deal with #gg shit. Life's busy enough as it is without keeping up on random happenings and what stupid shit's been said bashing so-and-so from who-and-ever lately.
It would be cool if there was a nice, general, well rounded "This is what GamerGate is" video that was more up to date than the FiveGuys/Zoepost stuff. Particularly a recap of everything major from the beginning and into the start of the New Year.
[QUOTE=Swilly;47013740]We apparently got removed off the list of people for gamergate because we do nothing :U
Welp, whatever.[/QUOTE]
well, as far as i can tell this thread acts more as a news and discussion thread for gg and gg-related events and happenings, no real action plan talk. makes sense since we're only a thread and not a super large one at that. which i, personally, think makes sense since fp doesn't have the same size of userbase and reach that 8chan and reddit do. also we're closed off for public viewing which would make sharing plans and ideas and such from here too difficult for many to bother
[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;47013956]I didn't say that. I responded to it, I hope coherently and with useful information. But you've got to agree if someone comes in to it saying "I've looked and looked and all I see is shit!" that just sounds silly and provocative.
I did say it sounds like that poster was just trying to escape any form of meaningful commitment for or against.[/QUOTE]
I'm saying all this as an outsider to this movement, who lurks in this thread constantly and follows the news pretty well.
It looks ugly and it's hard to be for or against because there is no leadership. I support ethics in journalism, and I think it's wonderful that you guys are fighting for that, I wish some CNN, Fox and MSNBC viewers would follow your lead on that regard.
At the same time, if the only exposure to Anita that I had was from GG, I would think she's literally the devil's incarnate. Her videos, in my opinion, are misinformed and poorly researched but honestly I've seen far worse analysis of video games from old people on Fox news, and don't remember a whole movement growing against them.
I think the hesitation to stop lurking and say, "You know what, I'm with Totalbiscuit, GO GG!" Is the confusion about what GG as a whole feels is important. Is this movement JUST about ethics? Because even in this thread I can read some posts and go, "Ya! I agree with that 100%, maybe I should be GG after all." and in the next two seconds read something that makes me think, "Well that's ridiculous, why aren't people rating this dumb? Is GG about meticulously reading this random idiot's tweets so they can troll?"
I know you, as a GG, must be tired of having to answer simple questions like this, but you have to realize that it's really hard to tell what the hell is going on, I promise you I do my best to keep up with this and as time has gone on I only get more confused.
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