Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
5,003 replies, posted
Former editor in Chief of the Escapist was just permabanned off their forums.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/J8UwKpx.png[/img]
It's just as you said, we have no leader. As such we don't really have one goal everyone is focused on. For me I'm in this to fight misinformation being spread around. On the note about Anita, I don't think it was the quality of her videos that brought the backlash, but rather how she censored and slandered the people who criticized her.
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;47014157]Her videos, in my opinion, are misinformed and poorly researched but honestly I've seen far worse analysis of video games from old people on Fox news, and don't remember a whole movement growing against them.[/QUOTE] That's because when Jack Thompson tried to ban violent videogames everyone laughed at him
Anita says videogames make you sexist, people laugh at her and the entire gaming press rallies in her defence because misogyny and our audience is shit I hope they go die in a fire. People get mad, the press keeps on painting them as monsters.
Our opposition has been our greatest recruitment force the entire time
Wiki Arbcom case is almost over.
Voting has started on closing the case. 6 have voted for. 5 against, but they feel it should be closed within about a day, just making final decisions.
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate/Proposed_decision#Motion_to_close[/url]
Current results have Ryulong, NBSB, Tarc, Tutelary, Titanium Dragon, willhesucceed, and Loganmac topicbanned. Red Pen is being admonished.
NBSB is a [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:NorthBySouthBaranof]bit upset[/url] at the recent votes for his t-ban.
[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;47014330]That's because when Jack Thompson tried to ban violent videogames everyone laughed at him
Anita says videogames make you sexist, people laugh at her and the entire gaming press rallies in her defence because misogyny and our audience is shit I hope they go die in a fire. People get mad, the press keeps on painting them as monsters.
Our opposition has been our greatest recruitment force the entire time[/QUOTE]
Oh ya, the infamous, "Gamer's are dead" right? Really regret not reading those articles myself. Despite her being an idiot when it comes to video games, and me not agreeing with literally any example she has ever used ever, I still think she has a point about how women are poorly represented and I hope someone who actually plays and understands games comes around and does a better job of what she is trying to do, because I think it's a conversation worth having.
[QUOTE=Athlias;47014274]It's just as you said, we have no leader. As such we don't really have one goal everyone is focused on. For me I'm in this to fight misinformation being spread around. On the note about Anita, I don't think it was the quality of her videos that brought the backlash, but rather how she censored and slandered the people who criticized her.[/QUOTE]
I think that's what keeps me, and others like me from saying we are a part of GG. I support GG in the specific goal of cleaning up gaming journalism, but supporting one goal an organization has is different from supporting the organization as a whole.
What are your thoughts on Jim Sterling and Bob Chipman?
Personally I completely despise Jim Sterling, hes nothing but a clickbait artist in the form of controversial bad games. (In my own, personal opinion.) Factually, hes a hypocrite who switches sides whenever his "audience" wants him too. See: "They aren't going to take your games away" and then read all statements / videos previous to that.
Bob Chipman I have never even heard of.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47014557]Personally I completely despise Jim Sterling, hes nothing but a clickbait artist in the form of controversial bad games. (In my own, personal opinion.) Factually, hes a hypocrite who switches sides whenever his "audience" wants him too. See: "They aren't going to take your games away" and then read all statements / videos previous to that.
Bob Chipman I have never even heard of.[/QUOTE]
I thought that was Moviebobs real name, he's on the escapist too.
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;47014427]I still think she has a point about how women are poorly represented and I hope someone who actually plays and understands games comes around and does a better job of what she is trying to do, because I think it's a conversation worth having.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and a proper critic would take the criticism received and address it but since she's a con artist who uses misinformation to manufacture controversy, she blocks all discussion and criticism becomes "slander and harrassment"
[img]http://i.imgur.com/h5l6Syl.png[/img]
Also I forgot to point out, gamergate didn't have anything to do with anita, she injected herself in the discussion and blamed us for threats we had no connection whatsoever with
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;47014427]Oh ya, the infamous, "Gamer's are dead" right? Really regret not reading those articles myself. Despite her being an idiot when it comes to video games, and me not agreeing with literally any example she has ever used ever, I still think she has a point about how women are poorly represented and I hope someone who actually plays and understands games comes around and does a better job of what she is trying to do, because I think it's a conversation worth having.
I think that's what keeps me, and others like me from saying we are a part of GG. I support GG in the specific goal of cleaning up gaming journalism, but supporting one goal an organization has is different from supporting the organization as a whole.
What are your thoughts on Jim Sterling and Bob Chipman?[/QUOTE]
It's just like any leaderless movement really, yeah it starts out focusing on one thing, in this case Ethics in Videogame journalism, but then people within the movement talk to each other and see problems with other issues tangenital to the original that they thing "hey, thats wrong" so they focus on that as well.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47014557]Personally I completely despise Jim Sterling, hes nothing but a clickbait artist in the form of controversial bad games. (In my own, personal opinion.) Factually, hes a hypocrite who switches sides whenever his "audience" wants him too. See: "They aren't going to take your games away" and then read all statements / videos previous to that.
Bob Chipman I have never even heard of.[/QUOTE]
everything you would want to know of bob chipman in one article:
[url]http://www.p4rgaming.com/book-report-super-mario-bros-3-brick-by-brick-by-moviebob-aka-bob-chipman/[/url]
[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;47014590]Yes, and a proper critic would take the criticism received and address it but since she's a con artist who uses misinformation to manufacture controversy, she blocks all discussion and criticism becomes "slander and harrassment"
[img]http://i.imgur.com/h5l6Syl.png[/img]
Also I forgot to point out, gamergate didn't have anything to do with anita, she injected herself in the discussion and blamed us for threats we had no connection whatsoever with[/QUOTE]
It's the same with...nearly every of the high profile AGGers, pretty much all but one of the Mojo's infact, but the only mojo who it did have anythign at all to do with, became irrelevant pretty fuckign quickly.
Oh don't get me wrong, I don't support her at all, even before I noticed that everyone who disagrees with her is "harassing her" I didn't support her because she can't get any points across without having terrible real world examples.
The whole criticism=harassing thing she started is just icing on the cake.
But really the thing is, even if people like to consider themselves so, being a "gamergate supporter" really doesn't mean anything cause gamergate in a way, doesn't exist
In fact I'd go as far as to say you shouldn't at all decide to "side with gamergate".
Make your own decisions on what you want and don't want to support, fight what you want to fight for, and if someone comes out with the "with or against us" argument you should tell them to fuck right off
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47014557]Bob Chipman I have never even heard of.[/QUOTE]
All I know about Chipman is that he wrote some game design book based around SMB3, and that he praised and defended Other M against all odds.
That latter point makes him terrible in my eyes regardless of anything else.
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;47014427]I think that's what keeps me, and others like me from saying we are a part of GG. I support GG in the specific goal of cleaning up gaming journalism, but supporting one goal an organization has is different from supporting the organization as a whole.[/QUOTE]
GamerGate isn't really a movement in the traditional sense though. It's a hashtag which anyone can use. There are no entry requirements. It's unfortunate that a lot of people have kinda accepted the movement label as it makes it easier for the opposition to point towards one idiot and say "this is what all gamergaters think!" Of course they would do it anyway but you get the idea.
And yeah, about that "it's actually about ethics..." thingy - I'm a small time indie developer and at a small friendly meetup with some coworkers there was this journalist (who sometimes write about games) who made that "joke". It was exactly as forced as in that magfest video and only one other guy found it to be funny.
[QUOTE=EditOutJ;47014673]All I know about Chipman is that he wrote some game design book based around SMB3, and that he praised and defended Other M against all odds.
That latter point makes him terrible in my eyes regardless of anything else.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I forgot about that.
Apparently silent protagonists can have no characteristics simply because they can't speak. The fact that Samus is a bounty hunter, goes in lone-wolf in all of her missions, and has access to and knowledge to operate what I imagine is the most powerful firepower in the universe means nothing. Really grinds my gears that he's all about portraying women better in video games but thinks Other M is an acceptable example of portraying one of gaming's most loved woman.
Well Jesse Cox just stated that both sides (Pro and Anti) are [url=https://twitter.com/JesseCox/status/559844895985123328]terrible[/url].
He also said he will [url=https://twitter.com/JesseCox/status/559844895985123328]defend Totalbiscuit if he is attacked[/url].
Not surprised that he doesn't want to take a side though, with him currently trying to build a relationship with Wil Wheaton at the moment.
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;47014625]Oh don't get me wrong, I don't support her at all, even before I noticed that everyone who disagrees with her is "harassing her" I didn't support her because she can't get any points across without having terrible real world examples.
The whole criticism=harassing thing she started is just icing on the cake.[/QUOTE]
My beef is that Anita tries to frame herself as a critic, but both her and her followers treat her videos like some sort of gospel that is infallible. That is not how criticism works; criticism is a dialogue between parties, not one person saying something, it being treated as the word of law, and anyone that disagrees being labeled with whatever word for "bad person" is en vogue at the moment. That's dictating.
it reminds me of how high schoolers would treat criticsm; they see enough million-dollar words in an essay and automatically proclaim that it's pure truth because if it has enough big words and jargon in it, it must be correct, right?
[QUOTE=Ziron;47016313]My beef is that Anita tries to frame herself as a critic, but both her and her followers treat her videos like some sort of gospel that is infallible. That is not how criticism works; criticism is a dialogue between parties, not one person saying something, it being treated as the word of law, and anyone that disagrees being labeled with whatever word for "bad person" is en vogue at the moment. That's dictating.
it reminds me of how high schoolers would treat criticsm; they see enough million-dollar words in an essay and automatically proclaim that it's pure truth because if it has enough big words and jargon in it, it must be correct, right?[/QUOTE]
I have not seen one single supporter of sarkesian able to effectively argue with criticism of her videos without resorting to inevitable name calling and "listen and believe" level of crap.
[QUOTE=Fangz;47016292]Well Jesse Cox just stated that both sides (Pro and Anti) are [URL="https://twitter.com/JesseCox/status/559844895985123328"]terrible[/URL].
He also said he will [URL="https://twitter.com/JesseCox/status/559844895985123328"]defend Totalbiscuit if he is attacked[/URL].
[/QUOTE]
[B]DAVID GALLANT: For the Sake of the Industry: No More TotalBiscuit[/B]
[URL]https://archive.today/M5Hre[/URL]
Real work that David Gallant has made for the games industry
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/O0ySWD6.png[/IMG]
Even for a blogpost I would have expected better of Gamasutra.
[B]EDIT:
[/B]It turns out that TB has more pressing matters on his plate
[B]Polygon: Can gaming's great women characters be written by men?[/B]
[URL]https://archive.today/Nz5Hy#selection-1503.163-1503.233[/URL]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/6KLixAD.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Thlis;47016441][B]DAVID GALLANT: For the Sake of the Industry: No More TotalBiscuit[/B]
[URL]https://archive.today/M5Hre[/URL]
[/QUOTE]
Article makes me create another Google account so I can subscribe that one to TotalBiscuit.
[editline]26th January 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ziron;47016313]My beef is that Anita tries to frame herself as a critic, but both her and her followers treat her videos like some sort of gospel that is infallible. That is not how criticism works; criticism is a dialogue between parties, not one person saying something, it being treated as the word of law, and anyone that disagrees being labeled with whatever word for "bad person" is en vogue at the moment. That's dictating.
it reminds me of how high schoolers would treat criticsm; they see enough million-dollar words in an essay and automatically proclaim that it's pure truth because if it has enough big words and jargon in it, it must be correct, right?[/QUOTE]
Not that I don't disagree with the impression that Sarkeesian really doesn't care about entertaining dissenting opinions but I've never heard of criticism described as "a dialogue between parties". There is certainly no dialogue occuring in Mike Stoklasa's legendary deconstruction of the Phantom Menace.
[QUOTE=Thlis;47016441][B]DAVID GALLANT: For the Sake of the Industry: No More TotalBiscuit[/B]
[URL]https://archive.today/M5Hre[/URL]
[/QUOTE]
[quote] He wields his audience as a weapon against criticism[/quote]
The irony
It hurts
[editline]26th January 2015[/editline]
TB hasn't even done anything, they just hate him because he's right. That article is "at best he as been seen associating with people who may or may not have done stuff."
[I]This just in, Anita Sarkeesian seen on twitter, a known hive of scum, misogyny, and villainy.[/I]
He's associated with Milo but until he starts spouting the same questionable political/social rhetoric I don't really see a problem with that.
I'm also not sure what "wields his audience as a weapon" even means. If he thinks Sarkeesian and Wu are full of shit, and I think Sarkeesian and Wu are full of shit, and we reach consensus, how is he using me?
[QUOTE]I realize that what I am asking you to do is to directly impact the livelihood of a games critic. If there was another way to get through to Bain, I would have suggested it: he has proven immune to any kind of constructive feedback, all of which he characterizes as an attack regardless of tone or approach. This is no longer about him. This is about no longer endorsing his toxic attitude which is actively driving marginalized folks away from games.[/QUOTE]
My sides! Oh my fucking god this is hilarious.......
[QUOTE=Raidyr;47016503]
Not that I don't disagree with the impression that Sarkeesian really doesn't care about entertaining dissenting opinions but I've never heard of criticism described as "a dialogue between parties". There is certainly no dialogue occuring in Mike Stoklasa's legendary deconstruction of the Phantom Menace.[/QUOTE]
To be fair...
You can't really defend the Phantom Menace.
[QUOTE=Thlis;47016441][B]DAVID GALLANT: For the Sake of the Industry: No More TotalBiscuit[/B]
[URL]https://archive.today/M5Hre[/URL]
Real work that David Gallant has made for the games industry
-snip-
Even for a blogpost I would have expected better of Gamasutra.
[/QUOTE]
There's a lot of information that the author omits. It's even more disappointing that he links to a storify. I don't think that the writer is a moron, he's just blinded by pride since he views people in a two-dimensional way.
[quote]Polygon: Can gaming's great women characters be written by men?
[url]https://archive.today/Nz5Hy#selection-1503.163-1503.233[/url][/quote]
I'll give them credit where it's due. They aren't necessarily better, but I think that minorities can unveil new perspectives.
Criticism isn't so much a dialogue with the person who created the media but more the critic and the media being critiqued having a conversation where the critic assumes things from it using different lenses.
However, the conversation is there and its important to note that under different lenses you get different outcomes. Critical Theory involves using all of the lens to get a 'complete' picture of the form of media being critiqued.
Anita Sarkesian(And by Anita I mean McIntosh), heavily uses the feminist lens to look at media and immediately she falters because there isn't an updated lens to examine media. The most up to date version you'll find is back from the 80s, infact a lot of feminist theory of recent heavily parrots the early 80s or is non-existent. If you look through recent texts, everything comes to a screeching halt at 81-82.
There's a reason for that, the Sex Wars. After which most shit went to a screeching halt as the third wave started and Feminists starts arguing with themselves over what Feminism is. Its still going today.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;47016503]Article makes me create another Google account so I can subscribe that one to TotalBiscuit.
[editline]26th January 2015[/editline]
Not that I don't disagree with the impression that Sarkeesian really doesn't care about entertaining dissenting opinions but I've never heard of criticism described as "a dialogue between parties". There is certainly no dialogue occuring in Mike Stoklasa's legendary deconstruction of the Phantom Menace.[/QUOTE]
That's because there's not much to add or dissent.
[url]http://www.reddit.com/r/GamerGhazi/comments/2tkit3/a_timeline_of_gamergate_with_sources/[/url]
GamerGhazi is making their own GG timeline.
[QUOTE=Xubs;47016691]you can if you're george lucas
"made me a shit ton of money"[/QUOTE]
sarkeesian is the key to all this
if we can get her working, because shes a funnier character than we ever had
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