Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
5,003 replies, posted
I can't take someone who raises his voice through some software like a 10 year old playing with a computer for the first time seriously
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;47030331]I can't take someone who raises his voice through some software like a 10 year old playing with a computer for the first time seriously[/QUOTE]
Are you talking about Moviebob?
There are better reasons not to take him seriously, like the fact that he basically said harassment, doxxing and death threats against GG were OK.
This is the guy we're talking about right
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvCri1tqIxQ[/media]
It is annoying as fuck
[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;47030146]To be fair, (I used to be a fan of EC but dropped them around the time they tried to [I]defend Mass Effect[/I]) a debate is "won" by how persuasive it is. That is, how well it appeals to it's audience.
If you've got some other metric for how debates are won, then uh, elucidate please.
Now we're kind of a captive audience for TB. He's been honing and refining (conciously or not, you decide) his tone, his style and his position for years. He's the factman. He's a straight shooter. He's a journalist in the Wild West of journalism and that makes him the [I]sheriff.[/I] He's the sheriff and he's shooting for the good old townsfolk of Consumerville with a capital C.
Suppose for a moment that that sort of person hadn't already won you over. Suppose you actually don't like people who take themselves to "have the facts."
Suppose instead that you're reading or listening to TB as an adverse audience. That you're taken to give folks like Extra Credits the benefit of the doubt when they say something because they deliver solid, coherent intellectual opinions from a position of academic authority that is sensitive, calm and collected. They have established truisms, they have unveiled that which was hidden only by ignorance, they are in fact a [I]classroom course material at some game design universities.[/I] That is to wit, where TB speaks from a soapbox they speak from a pulpit.
TB, in this context, [I]sounds like a bully.[/I] Not just a bully but an arrogant bully who think's he's driving the greatest wagontrain of all time when in fact he's just shepherding nerds.
The fact that people, asking about gamergate in this very thread, can assert "Isn't this just about people being mad over review scores?" means that's a valid point of view. If you multiply the "So-What?" factor out to it's logical extent, it seems like TB is getting awful riled up about "silly internet business" that he admits to participating in.
If that's the case then he lost. At least among a certain set of people. He might impress some neutrals and some sympathizers with his "citation needed" and he certainly will acquit himself well in the field of demonstrable facts. However at this stage in the debate, assuming no forthcoming rebuttal or clusterkerfluffle, he's done a bad job of making headway into anyone who might not have already said to Extra Credits, "Hold on, what makes you say all of that?" All his tone, his attitude and his style have done is up the ante on the battlefield mentality where it's Big Bad Total Biscuit, Leader of the Sea Lioning Gaters, versus the little guys. The sensitive guys. The guys who have transpeople and women and artists on their side. Not fat, balding, cancerhaving angry nerds who got their big shot from World of Warcraft podcasts or whatever.
For this reason I am glad that Totalbiscuit (as much as I adore his work, what he does, and who he simply is) is not "The Leader" of Gamergate and the fact that there is no leader of gamergate. The typical way he handles debates literally crumbles when it comes to maintaining a long-term level of "So-What" and "Civility." He becomes a pretty sharply cut caricature of the snide, arrogant, hat tipping patriarch who's unconsciously reinforcing some sinister kulturkampf.
Do bear in mind, I'm saying [I]given a reading as an opponent.[/I] I think TB nailed it here. I think we all think he nailed it. I just don't think he nailed it the right way. That is, in a way that promote dialogue. He got it in a way that ends it.[/QUOTE]
I get what you're saying but there's no dialogue to be had here and I don't think TB was even looking to win anyone over
In a way, he was defending himself from an attempted character assasination in front of his audience (like why would you even be outraged that TB was being unethical if you didn't give a damn about ethics) and he turned it around showing that not only the guy had no idea what he was talking about, he's also clueless on what proper ethical disclosure even implies.
All in all let the feelz over reelz crowd have their listen and believe audience, everytime this stuff happens TB's subscriptions have a spike, they are a minority and he knows it
The mace spraying SJW story appears to be confirmed.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj4okVOakkk[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKelPgOUcvA[/media]
What the hell is wrong with some people?
[QUOTE=qwea00;47030469]The mace spraying SJW story appears to be confirmed.
[video=youtube;Mj4okVOakkk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj4okVOakkk[/video]
[video=youtube;xKelPgOUcvA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKelPgOUcvA[/video]
What the hell is wrong with some people?[/QUOTE]
The guy in the first video does say it was an accident. I've never used mace myself, but it does not strike me as the kind of tool with which you can accidentally send someone to the hospital and harm many others.
Why the heck are clubs handing out mace anyway?
The Self Defense Club should be held accountable here.
[QUOTE=Fangz;47029806]Totalbiscuit has came back from his planned two day hiatus to respond to [url=http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1skbco2]Extracredit's response from today[/url].[/QUOTE]
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, and then you win.
the verdict
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ryulong[/url]
[QUOTE][QUOTE](i) The community Gamergate general sanctions are hereby rescinded and are replaced by standard discretionary sanctions, which are authorized for all edits about, and all pages related to, (a) GamerGate, (b) any gender-related dispute or controversy, (c) people associated with (a) or (b), all broadly construed.
(ii) All sanctions in force when this remedy is enacted are endorsed and will become standard discretionary sanctions governed by the standard procedure from the moment of enactment.
(iii) Notifications issued under Gamergate general sanctions become alerts for twelve months from the date of enactment of this remedy, then expire. The log of notifications will remain on the Gamergate general sanction page.
(iv) All existing and past sanctions and restrictions placed under Gamergate general sanctions will be transcribed by the arbitration clerks in the central discretionary sanctions log.
(v) Any requests for enforcement that may be open when this remedy is enacted shall proceed, but any remedy that is enacted should be enacted as a discretionary sanction.
(vi) Administrators who have enforced the Gamergate general sanctions are thanked for their work and asked to continue providing administrative assistance enforcing discretionary sanctions and at Arbitration enforcement.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Uninvolved administrators are encouraged to monitor the articles covered by discretionary sanctions in this case to ensure compliance. To assist in this, administrators are reminded that:
(i) Accounts with a clear shared agenda may be blocked if they violate the sockpuppetry policy or other applicable policy;
(ii) Accounts whose primary purpose is disruption, violating the policy on biographies of living persons, or making personal attacks may be blocked indefinitely;
(iii) There are special provisions in place to deal with editors who violate the BLP policy;
(iv) The default position for BLPs, particularly for individuals whose noteworthiness is limited to a particular event or topic, is the presumption of privacy for personal matters;
(v) Editors who spread or further publicize existing BLP violations may be blocked;
(vi) Administrators may act on clear BLP violations with page protections, blocks, or warnings even if they have edited the article themselves or are otherwise involved;
(vii) Discretionary sanctions permit full and semi-page protections, including use of pending changes where warranted, and – once an editor has become aware of sanctions for the topic – any other appropriate remedy may be issued without further warning.
The Arbitration Committee thanks those administrators who have been helping to enforce the community general sanctions, and thanks, once again, in advance those who help enforce the remedies adopted in this case.[/QUOTE]
2.1) Any editor subject to a topic-ban in this decision is indefinitely prohibited from making any edit about, and from editing any page relating to, (a) Gamergate, (b) any gender-related dispute or controversy, (c) people associated with (a) or (b), all broadly construed. These restrictions may be appealed to the Committee only after 12 months have elapsed from the closing of this case.
4.1) NorthBySouthBaranof (talk · contribs · logs · edit filter log · block log) is indefinitely restricted per the standard topic ban.
5.1) Ryulong (talk · contribs · logs · edit filter log · block log) is indefinitely restricted per the standard topic ban.
5.3) Ryulong (talk · contribs · logs · edit filter log · block log) is indefinitely banned from the English Language Wikipedia. They may request reconsideration of the ban twelve months after the enactment of this remedy, and every twelve months thereafter.
6.2) TaraInDC (talk · contribs · logs · edit filter log · block log) is admonished for treating Wikipedia as if it were a battleground and advised to better conduct themselves.
7.2) Tarc (talk · contribs · logs · edit filter log · block log) is indefinitely restricted per the standard topic ban.
7.3) Tarc (talk · contribs · logs · edit filter log · block log) is strongly warned that should future misconduct occur in any topic area, he may be banned from the English Wikipedia by motion of the Arbitration Committee.
8.2) The Devil's Advocate (talk · contribs · logs · edit filter log · block log) is indefinitely restricted per the standard topic ban.
8.3) Subject to the usual exceptions, The Devil's Advocate (talk · contribs · logs · edit filter log · block log) is prohibited from making any more than one revert on any one page in any 48-hour period. This applies for all pages on the English Wikipedia, except The Devil's Advocate's own user space. This restriction may be appealed to the Committee only after 12 months have elapsed from the closing of this case.
8.4) Subject to the usual exceptions, The Devil's Advocate (talk · contribs · logs · edit filter log · block log) is indefinitely prohibited from editing any administrative or conduct noticeboard (including, not not limited to; AN, AN/I, AN/EW, and AE), except for threads regarding situations that he was directly involved in when they were started. This restriction may be appealed to the Committee only after 12 months have elapsed from the closing of this case.
8.5) The Devil's Advocate (talk · contribs · logs · edit filter log · block log) is strongly warned that should future misconduct occur in any topic area, he may be banned from the English Wikipedia by motion of the Arbitration Committee. Further, the committee strongly suggests that The Devil's Advocate refrains from editing contentious topic areas in the future.
9) TheRedPenOfDoom (talk · contribs · logs · edit filter log · block log) is admonished for treating Wikipedia as if it were a battleground and advised to better conduct themselves.
10.1) The Arbitration Committee endorses the community-imposed topic ban preventing Tutelary (talk · contribs) from editing under the Gamergate general sanctions. This ban is converted to an Arbitration Committee-imposed ban. Tutelary (talk · contribs · logs · edit filter log · block log) is indefinitely restricted per the standard topic ban.
12) The Arbitration Committee endorses the community-imposed topic bans preventing ArmyLine (talk · contribs), DungeonSiegeAddict510 (talk · contribs), and Xander756 (talk · contribs) from editing under the Gamergate general sanctions. The topic bans for these three editors are converted to indefinite restrictions per the standard topic ban.
13) The Arbitration Committee endorses the community-imposed topic ban preventing Titanium Dragon (talk · contribs) from editing under BLP enforcement. This ban is converted to an Arbitration Committee-imposed ban. Titanium Dragon is indefinitely restricted per the standard topic ban.
14.1) Loganmac (talk · contribs · logs · edit filter log · block log) is indefinitely restricted per the standard topic ban.
15) Willhesucceed (talk · contribs · logs · edit filter log · block log) is indefinitely restricted per the standard topic ban.
18) The Arbitration Committee urges that knowledgeable and non-conflicted users not previously involved in editing GamerGate-related articles, especially GamerGate-related biographies of living people, should carefully review them for adherence to Wikipedia policies and address any perceived or discovered deficiencies. This is not a finding that the articles are or are not satisfactory in their present form, but an urging that independent members of the community examine the matter in light of the case.[/QUOTE]
I would like to take a moment to dedicate this to all the ryulongs in the world
[video=youtube;XdofmoYcJNE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdofmoYcJNE[/video]
[QUOTE=Quiet;47030512]The guy in the first video does say it was an accident. I've never used mace myself, but it does not strike me as the kind of tool with which you can accidentally send someone to the hospital and harm many others.[/QUOTE]
There are definately things that need to be clarified. We'll have to wait and see if more details emerge.
Did a quick google on how mace/pepper spray affect people with asthma and apparently it can be life threatening. Even if it ends up not being related to GG it's still very irresponsible. The accident in this case is probably that it entered the ventilation system.
[QUOTE=Quiet;47030512]The guy in the first video does say it was an accident. I've never used mace myself, but it does not strike me as the kind of tool with which you can accidentally send someone to the hospital and harm many others.[/QUOTE]
Mace is a lot like a bomb it's indiscriminate and a slave to the winds.
If your mace goes off (easily if you took off the pin because you're an idiot) it will spray all over.
They stapled it to Ryulong's talk page, that is delicious.
ALL OF THE SALT. I NEED TO MAKE A SALT MINE.
Holy crap, did people hate Ryulong this much? My goodness.
Well I mean, Salt is delicious on everything.
[QUOTE=EmperorVagak;47030826]Holy crap, did people hate Ryulong this much? My goodness.[/QUOTE]
The sole reason the page was biased and remained biased and un-neutral, albeit, people like RPOD helped him, but hes the most responsible. Without people with high reputation and biased editing, it'll be hard for them to wrestle control for the article to feminisim/"hate group" oriented.
Basically hes a massive douche who has been doing this for YEARS and pushing a massive, basically "war" on Wikipedia in regards to anything related to feminism. He was part of a group people, which I can't remember the name of, but they were commonly referred to as "unblockable," because of their ability to play the victim / and or play the victim for other people. This time, they didn't win.
His biased nature has no place editing an encyclopedia.
-l8-
Honestly, I love the amount of progress GamerGate has been making.
With nearly every game journalist, news site, and developer trying to shut it down as quickly as they can, it's amazing that we've made it this far. They've tried strawmanning, they've tried dividing the group, spreading misinformation and slander-- none of it has managed to affect us. Hell, if anything, Gamergate is getting stronger as it becomes more widely known about.
Just need to keep fighting the good fight. As long as we can stay united underneath the same cause, I doubt that the consumer revolt will go before making some serious changes to gaming journalism altogether.
[QUOTE=Monkah;47031197]Honestly, I love the amount of progress GamerGate has been making.
With nearly every game journalist, news site, and developer trying to shut it down as quickly as they can, it's amazing that we've made it this far. They've tried strawmanning, they've tried dividing the group, spreading misinformation and slander-- none of it has managed to affect us. Hell, if anything, Gamergate is getting stronger as it becomes more widely known about.
Just need to keep fighting the good fight. As long as we can stay united underneath the same cause, I doubt that the consumer revolt will go before making some serious changes to gaming journalism altogether.[/QUOTE]
The fact that a lot of the big-name sites actually HAVE changed their ethics policies to prevent another "Quinnspiracy" is awesome. It's just a shame that nobody outside of GG knows about it. Still, as more sites continue to do this, the more legitimate GG becomes, and the harder it'll be for the anti's to stand their ground.
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;47030362]This is the guy we're talking about right
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvCri1tqIxQ[/media]
It is annoying as fuck[/QUOTE]
Doesn't he talk about how he's involved in the industry, but has nothing to show for it?
[QUOTE=Psycho9182;47031306]Doesn't he talk about how he's involved in the industry, but has nothing to show for it?[/QUOTE]
The most he can show with actual verification is crafting a narrative for Farmville.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/I4Nhfy4.png[/img]
top kek
[QUOTE=Wii60;47031369][img]http://i.imgur.com/I4Nhfy4.png[/img]
top kek[/QUOTE]
Knowing his brutal honesty when it comes to evaluating a game presented to him, I don't want to imagine the tantrum Wu would throw if that came to reality last summer.
I want to know his reaction when he saw that tweet originally.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;47031398]I want to know his reaction when he saw that tweet originally.[/QUOTE]
I can only guess.
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/UYbovwj.jpg[/img_thumb]
I think my reaction would have been, "Why is someone trying to get me to review their Second Life gamemode?"
Here's how it will play out.
1. TotalBiscuit accepts Wu's offer if she's being serious.
2. He gives it a bad review.
3. Wu has YouTube take it down because TB gave it a bad review.
4. Drama ensues.
[QUOTE=EmperorVagak;47031535]Here's how it will play out.
1. TotalBiscuit accepts Wu's offer if she's being serious.
2. He gives it a bad review.
3. Wu has YouTube take it down because TB gave it a bad review.
4. Drama ensues.[/QUOTE]
It was a month before any of this even happened, so I doubt he will even look at it.
[QUOTE=EmperorVagak;47031535]Here's how it will play out.
1. TotalBiscuit accepts Wu's offer if she's being serious.
2. He gives it a bad review.
3. Wu has YouTube take it down because TB gave it a bad review.
4. Drama ensues.[/QUOTE]
I kinda wish he had reviewed it originally. It would have burned her so bad, she'd never have been able to even get a word in to this fight.
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